Hourly Wages / Class Action
Hey all!
There seems to not be a complete/recent thread on this! The club I'm working at is being slammed with a class action suit, and everyone is running around like [naked] chickens with their heads cut off. Has anyone here had experience with this? Have you participated in a class action suit to gain employee status or back wages? Do you think it was worth it? Has your club changed from listing you as an "independent contractor" to an "employee"? How has that affected you?
Any info would be helpful - I've never worked anywhere where I'm paid hourly wages in addition to tips. I feel like if they lose the lawsuit and have to pay us hourly they'll just charge us another BS fee to make it back (and then we'll be taxed on the money we've already paid back to them).
Any insight is appreciated.
xx
Re: Hourly Wages / Class Action
I was invited to join a couple for the Christie's chain and declined... I hadn't worked there long enough/often enough to have the payout be worth the attachment of my name to a lawsuit plus any associated paperwork nonsense.
I auditioned at a 2nd Christie's location this year while the lawsuit is going on, and the only change they made was to make you sign more paperwork saying you will not join the lawsuit, and that you will not sue for wages/house fee back. They still had all their ridiculous rules and treated girls like slaves.
There's a number of possible repercussions that can happen from clubs being sued and forced to treat us as employees. I think all of them go either as positive or negative.
Positives:
- A schedule, thus limiting the # of girls on the floor; less competition and more $$ for you when you work
- Hourly money and no house fees
- Health insurance if full-time
- 'Paper trail' which can be good if you want proof of your income for something and do not yet have 2 years of tax returns
Negatives:
- A schedule; which means you can't pick up an extra shift if you need $$, and removes a lot of flexibility... no more taking off a random week during finals without asking permission
- Likely increased cuts from VIP rooms, to offset having to pay you hourly/no house... though this may generate a lawsuit of its own.. and depending on how much you even sell rooms may not matter to you at all
- They will likely cap everyone at 28 hours to avoid paying health insurance... kind of a moot point for a lot of dancers, as 'full time' in Stripper Land is around 4 nights/week, 5-6 hour shifts
- 'Paper trail' can be bad if you're paranoid about future jobs asking for your tax records
Edit to add: The last, worst negative to me is that I feel the club management would then give more of a shit about what you are doing during your shift. If their only source of profit from you is now drink sales or VIP rooms, they are not going to be pleased if you're sitting in the DR and may start 'encouraging' you to be out on the floor constantly, talking to even the guys we know are broke, etc. That would piss me off to no end!
The payout for the lawsuits themselves can be not worth it. Deja Vu was sued, lost, and only issued 'house credits' which had lots of restrictions for usages. I think the highest dancer payout I've read was in the $100k range and that was for a girl who had worked in the same mega club in NYC for 10 years. Most dancers that would be invited to join would not see a whole lot of return. Sure, if you work a few years at one club you may see $5-$10k; but then you are taxed on it, so there goes $1-$2k of it, and then you are left with $4-$8k that comes with the trade-off of the lawsuit being public record for anyone who pulls a thorough background check on you... at which point that person will say "Excuse me Casey, why were you involved in suing Hustler Gentleman's Club?"
Personally, if I was not going into a field where I am likely to get 'checked out' thoroughly, I might consider joining one, but as it stands I switch clubs often, thus lowering any potential personal payout, and don't need that on my record.
And, as many people like to say, you knew the deal when you started working there, whining after the fact is kind of a lame move.
Re: Hourly Wages / Class Action
my *former* club it hit with lawsuits every year..multiple times a year more likely. they never change anything because its just far too profitable to charge 100 bucks a shift and 10 dollars out of every dance while monitoring your every move. they just settle for a small lump sum and continue on being crooked thieves until they are sued again.
Re: Hourly Wages / Class Action
Thank you!! I mean, I have zero desire to participate in a suit. I love my club and would like to continue working there. But I am concerned about my earnings in the future, considering that making this change could lead to any % of my dances/VIPs being taken and reported.
Re: Hourly Wages / Class Action
^ Honestly, I wouldn't worry.
I mean, the reporting thing is moot if you pay taxes (and IMHO any dancer who does not pay taxes on at least some of their income is fucking stupid). The club could theoretically decide to take more $$ out of VIPs or charge higher house anytime they want, regardless of lawsuits, so no point worrying about it until it happens.
Re: Hourly Wages / Class Action
Re: Hourly Wages / Class Action
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Selina M
There's a number of possible repercussions that can happen from clubs being sued and forced to treat us as employees. I think all of them go either as positive or negative.
Positives:
- A schedule, thus limiting the # of girls on the floor; less competition and more $$ for you when you work
- Hourly money and no house fees
- Health insurance if full-time
- 'Paper trail' which can be good if you want proof of your income for something and do not yet have 2 years of tax returns
My club has already implemented a policy for employee dancers, and none of these are available if you are an employee dancer. They will still allow IC dancers to work as walk-ins, so no schedule control.
The employees still have to pay house fees, but it is in the form of tip sharing with the rest of the staff. 100% of dancer's stage tips are pooled along with bartenders, cocktail waitresses, security and DJs.
The employee dancers will not be provided with enough hours to qualify for employer health insurance.
The employee dancers also have a minimum VIP sales quota per pay period. If you don't hit your quota for 3 pay periods in a row, you will be fired. I don't remember what the quota was, but it seemed like a reasonable number, like 5 lap dances per shift or something.
The club keeps 100% of all lap dance money.
I've been dancing since the 1990's and these law suits come up every few years. It is a very old joke that the stripper retirement plan is to sue your club for back wages and house fees.
Re: Hourly Wages / Class Action
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tourdefranzia
My club has already implemented a policy for employee dancers, and none of these are available if you are an employee dancer. They will still allow IC dancers to work as walk-ins, so no schedule control.
The employees still have to pay house fees, but it is in the form of tip sharing with the rest of the staff. 100% of dancer's stage tips are pooled along with bartenders, cocktail waitresses, security and DJs.
The employee dancers will not be provided with enough hours to qualify for employer health insurance.
The employee dancers also have a minimum VIP sales quota per pay period. If you don't hit your quota for 3 pay periods in a row, you will be fired. I don't remember what the quota was, but it seemed like a reasonable number, like 5 lap dances per shift or something.
The club keeps 100% of all lap dance money.
I've been dancing since the 1990's and these law suits come up every few years. It is a very old joke that the stripper retirement plan is to sue your club for back wages and house fees.
soo if they keep 100% of your stage tips and 100% of your dance money, how are you getting paid?? the minimum wage for tipped employees which is somewhere around 2-4 bucks per hour??
Re: Hourly Wages / Class Action
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tourdefranzia
My club has already implemented a policy for employee dancers, and none of these are available if you are an employee dancer. They will still allow IC dancers to work as walk-ins, so no schedule control.
The employees still have to pay house fees, but it is in the form of tip sharing with the rest of the staff. 100% of dancer's stage tips are pooled along with bartenders, cocktail waitresses, security and DJs.
The employee dancers will not be provided with enough hours to qualify for employer health insurance.
The employee dancers also have a minimum VIP sales quota per pay period. If you don't hit your quota for 3 pay periods in a row, you will be fired. I don't remember what the quota was, but it seemed like a reasonable number, like 5 lap dances per shift or something.
The club keeps 100% of all lap dance money.
I've been dancing since the 1990's and these law suits come up every few years. It is a very old joke that the stripper retirement plan is to sue your club for back wages and house fees.
Right, theoretically there would be positives IF the club was forced to actually act like a typical employer AND all the girls were treated the same, as employees. It baffles me that the club is still allowed to hire as ICs though; were they actually sued or is this a cover your ass strategy?
The Hi-Liter in Phx does a similar thing and it's cover-your-ass, so they can say in court "Well she was given the option to be an employee and didn't want it". They don't charge house fee, pay the girl $8/hr and take all her lap dance money.
Re: Hourly Wages / Class Action
Quote:
Originally Posted by
simone87
soo if they keep 100% of your stage tips and 100% of your dance money, how are you getting paid?? the minimum wage for tipped employees which is somewhere around 2-4 bucks per hour??
Sorry, that was kind of confusing: the stage tips are pooled along with and divided equally between dancers, bartenders, cocktail waitresses, DJs and bouncers. Oregon doesn't have a tip wage, only the state minimum wage of $9.25 an hour.
No one said anything about lap dance tips, so I would assume the dancer gets to keep those for herself.
Re: Hourly Wages / Class Action
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Selina M
Right, theoretically there would be positives IF the club was forced to actually act like a typical employer AND all the girls were treated the same, as employees. It baffles me that the club is still allowed to hire as ICs though; were they actually sued or is this a cover your ass strategy?
The Hi-Liter in Phx does a similar thing and it's cover-your-ass, so they can say in court "Well she was given the option to be an employee and didn't want it". They don't charge house fee, pay the girl $8/hr and take all her lap dance money.
Several clubs in the area are going through these class-action law suits. Casa Diablo is probably the most famous, but I think Rouge (owned by Deja Vu) and Spearmint Rhino are also dealing with their own impending litigation. There are several very active sex worker justice programs in town that are now working together with worker's rights groups and unions. The National Association of Social Work is also involved in getting Oregon strippers declared employees.
When we had our meeting about this, the owners tried to get the dancers to sign a petition that they object to these rules. No one signed the dumb petition, because it's a legal document and requires a dancer's legal name. Realistically, if all clubs were forced to make 85% of their entertainers employees and subject to wages and employment taxes, the club who offers the sweetest pay package is going to get the best dancers. This could be a real advantage to the smallest clubs as they could really limit their payroll expenses by limiting their schedule. The big clubs that depend on hundreds of girls dancing every week would have to reinvent their entire business model.
My club has about 25-40 dancers a day (all shifts), so it makes it one of the larger clubs in Portland.
Re: Hourly Wages / Class Action
^ that they object to what rules?
My current club tries to make everyone sign a sheet every day with their real name, saying that they were paid at least minimum wage that day.
I don't sign that shit.
Re: Hourly Wages / Class Action
Well, that's the thing. Almost every club I worked at gave me the option to choose when I filled out my new hire paperwork. I could:
1) Become an employee and be paid to work, have no house fee, and the club would garnish anything I earned on top of that, or
2) be an IC and keep what I earned but not make a wage.
I guess I just assumed that was them covering their asses so they could say, "oh, well we asked...." (because obviously no one would pick employee status) but still this lawsuit for employee status is apparently holding up in court. I guess I'm just hoping they pay back wages for the girls that sued, and then don't bother doing anything else within the club. We already have a schedule we have to stick to, but I'd rather not deal with a club-issued W2. I prefer to deal with all my taxes, etc on my own.
Re: Hourly Wages / Class Action
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Selina M
^ that they object to what rules?
Object to being an employee instead of IC.
Re: Hourly Wages / Class Action
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tourdefranzia
Sorry, that was kind of confusing: the stage tips are pooled along with and divided equally between dancers, bartenders, cocktail waitresses, DJs and bouncers. Oregon doesn't have a tip wage, only the state minimum wage of $9.25 an hour.
No one said anything about lap dance tips, so I would assume the dancer gets to keep those for herself.
Wait, I'm still a little confused so can you clarify this for me please? The dancers are earning $9.25 an hour plus their percentage of the tip pool and whatever tips they get from giving lap dances? Is that all they are earning? We all know not all customers tip after a lap dance, I say maybe 50% and that's a generous number from my personal experiences. That really sucks if that is all they are making. I guess it also depends on how big the tip pool gets but between so many dancers and everyone else that is tipped, that is a lot to split between so I can't imagine it being that much. I wouldn't even dance there as an employee, I would just waitress or bartend and keep my clothes on for probably close to the same money.
Re: Hourly Wages / Class Action
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MiraMichele
Wait, I'm still a little confused so can you clarify this for me please? The dancers are earning $9.25 an hour plus their percentage of the tip pool and whatever tips they get from giving lap dances? Is that all they are earning? We all know not all customers tip after a lap dance, I say maybe 50% and that's a generous number from my personal experiences. That really sucks if that is all they are making. I guess it also depends on how big the tip pool gets but between so many dancers and everyone else that is tipped, that is a lot to split between so I can't imagine it being that much. I wouldn't even dance there as an employee, I would just waitress or bartend and keep my clothes on for probably close to the same money.
It's actually a terrible deal for the bartender, waitress and other tipped employees. The customers don't tip much on stage, and now the other staff is going to have to share their tips with the employee dancers.
I've read the rules and paperwork carefully, and I think I've figured out how to game the system. They don't have a way of tracking the stage tips, so it would be pretty simple to fudge on those numbers. Also, I could fudge the lap dance count to my advantage, probably up to double the number of dances as the bouncers don't really track the girls in VIP all that well. There is usually only 1 bouncer on shift at any time and he is responsible for up to 30 girls at a time. He is supposed to be checking ID's of dancers coming into work, walking them out to their cars after their shift ends, watching the VIP areas (there's 3), and tracking the number of lap dances on a clip board so as to collect the dance fees. In other words, they are expect to do way more than one person could reasonably do.
I'd claim only my minimum dances per pay period and pocket 100% of the rest of my dance money along with my paycheck. The club isn't going to hire another bouncer to double check on the employee dancers, so this is a pretty safe bet that an employee dancer would be able to get away with a lot if she is crafty. I also would stash a sizable percentage of my stage tips because turning in tips is based on the honor system and there aren't any cameras on the stage like there are on the bar or in VIP. I could be like, "Yep, I only got tipped $3 today on stage." And pretty much no one could prove otherwise. The tip pool employees tend to take home around $100-200 a shift from the pool as it stands right now. Sure, the tip pool employees would see a drop in their income, but they probably wouldn't figure it out for a while since the cash portion of the tip pool isn't tracked very well.
Also, there is no rule that says an employee dancer can't hustle tips on the floor or that those hustled tips have to be turned in to be pooled. I'm sure that would change in a New York minute if the tipped staff noticed.
Ultimately, I find the whole thing to be too much trouble and I can't stick to a schedule. But I'm not the brightest crayon in the box, and if I can figure this stuff out I know someone else will be able to, as well.
Re: Hourly Wages / Class Action
I thought that in legal speak the "tips" we earn are in fact what currently comprises our income (ie what we make from sales) that the club does not pay from its own pocket?
If so, that would result in a very high tip pool deal, it would just be the same for everyone right?