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MFC losers freeloaders - we need to start teaching them what to do
I read many times on this forum that it is important when chat is active on myfreecam to keep things "interesting" and people talking etc.
But I prefer a silent room to chatters who never tip.
These dudes who talkie talkie and never tip are the worst!
They come in give compliments (probably their other hand on their penis during typing and yeah is big news to me that am beautiful lmao) and then they expect me to respond and get excited and if I don't respond I look bad to other people in my room...The other people might think am a bitch.
But what are these freeloaders even thinking? Is it not enough that I put on makeup, set up my expensive camera and computer and lights and decor the room and dance half naked to entertain them- now am also to listen to their fucking stories etc...
I hate these non tipping guys!!!
Last time was online this dick was watching me for an hour, chatted me up and complimented me and never once tipped me in an hour (and he had tokens visible in his wallet)He asked me how tall I was and told me how tall he is (like this interests me lmao give me a break you loser) then I finally logged off early and said bye to my room just to get rid of him cause started feeling this hate and could not take it anymore- and he was all sweet and said bye etc...Like I care for his bye!!!!!!!!!!go fuck yourself asshole..it took me all this strenghth to not email him and ask him to never be in my room again time waster asshole
if you have anything to say to me and all these question include it in a tip note!!!obviously is just chat and you not asking to see my ass but still!!!!!
The tricky part with these freeloaders is when they are polite and nice I also am polite and nice and feel used only after they leave.But I bet they say nice things and smirk with a hand on their penis the whole time thinking the model is so nice and we only see what is written but they know they are using you...
These freeloaders are nothing but losers.
From now on if anyone watches me and does not tip me = he can stay.
If anyone chats me up and expects attention does not tip me after 10 minutes= I ban his dick.
(translation : If I were on a date with him I would expect at least a cup of coffee and then I would not even meet him in my lingerie)
Do they realize if they talk to model and demand her attention and tell her how his son went shopping with him- they should tip model? oR do they think is some kind of fun for the model to listen to his bullshit stories about his day
I much prefer the guys who have a decency to just enjoy the free show and not additionally have a nerve to chat model up if they don't want to tip her.
Freeloaders chatters are just dudes seeking validation. And yeah is really sooo difficult for me -a beautiful female -to find guys who wanna talk to me!!! ha ha ha! These assholes must have zero brains to think they are helping me by keeping chat going like one had a nerve to tell me.So don't keep my chat going- is an exchange of energy - I do my part and their part is tipping - if they don't tip they just steal the energy.
Plain and simple.
I think models on mfc are too giving and it needs to stop.
Stop letting them use you!! Is not a big deal to leave a small tip but we must make it clear that no attention is given unless they do. It awful to see models on mfc do all this free stuff- the only effect is they try to get more and more free stuff - and then they go and spend their money in some store and buy themselves stuff
yeah if I could buy stuff for compliments I would have a diamond necklace by now
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Re: MFC losers freeloaders - we need to start teaching them what to do
ok. I'll bite on this one. You'll never get the m.o. to change on MFC. Unless you are smoking hot and entertaining and have a crapload of content to sell, kik, snapchat, date raffles, games ect you're going to sink like a stone to the bottom because they want RATINGS. If the models are doing public shows they get traffic. That is all they're after on MFC. Is it frustrating. Fuck yes. And it's very DRAINING to have to stay upbeat and act like you give a fuck and bounce all over your room gushing euphorically when someone tips you 10 tokens.
Sometimes it's a nice change of pace for me. But I have bills to pay ad a family to feed. I can't wait out their "approval". Which is what they're doing to you by sitting around and bullshitting. There is a lot of back door stuff that goes on in there. Seems like a lot of the models do meet ups and cam together.
I myself could never get the give it to them for free mentality and they'll pay. Sure they'll watch and 98% of them are just thinking what a stupid whore you are for doing what you do in free chat while the 2% pay for the shows. I mean if I own a business I'm not going to let someone else come in and stay in my building while I pay the rent. But whatever. It just is what it is on there.
You can train the guys to tip. Start doing something sexual and then stop. Write it in your room topic and then act like a bubblehead when they try to get you to keep doing it for free. Get a tip and then resume. Tips stop action stops. But you have to do it in the most saccharin sweet way. You can't seem like a bitch. Problem is you have to get a following in there to get anything more than freeloaders in there to tip you. Hence you're back to square one with the doing it out in free for the freeloaders.
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Re: MFC losers freeloaders - we need to start teaching them what to do
Thank you for advice! I actually had snapchat and kik - got rid of both because I need to spend time on another site and do other things in order to get money to pay for food while snapchat is like for $5 I have to spend time to even entertain them more outside of mfc.
Wow - what next - will I be expected to call them on their cell and wish them happy birthday? i know from research that mfc tipping got worse and i suspect is because of all the free stuff models are always giving giving - and I suppose is all downhills from there. It used to be just camming and tips , then one video on sale, now is 10 videos for 100 tokens deal - where is it going from there if models give more and more?
I think mfc is a brilliant site but it was set up to be model between member and we get the freedom and what often happens what models do with this freedom is unwisely give too much free stuff.Guys probably laugh about it.
We got the pussy we got control - is how it should be. Guys will be happy to tip - guys need to know is expected.
Just my opinion.
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Re: MFC losers freeloaders - we need to start teaching them what to do
I honestly think MFC is becoming less popular for the average tipper. I think theyre going on CB for that now because IMO the average room numbers on front page rooms on CB are going up. Ever since around Nov or so last year I noticed a dramatic decrease in the most popular girls rooms averaging 200-300 ppl when before it was the high 100s 1000/2 and somthings on average . Goals barely dented in and then a huge number dented in 30 min . Which to me means the only ppl who really tip on there anymore at all are regs from before this steep decline . I know they all have regs who tip big and then the average tipper tips like 10-50 or so but I've noticed that no tips going in in like 30-60 min in some of those rooms then the goal is almost done so chances are nobody's tipping for the goals unless a whale comes in drops a huge bomb then all the little fish start throwing in their nickels
I'm not watching them because i have nothing better to do and not working i pay attention because im wondering if MFC is something that i want to go back to at all. My camscore dropped to like 300 when i had a camathon in august last year and I haven't been back on because I want my cam score to reset to 1000 if I do ever go back on.
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Re: MFC losers freeloaders - we need to start teaching them what to do
I get bored as a viewer on MFC bc the guys are just *so* lame it makes me shiver and not wanna spend money to help these losers get a free beat off. My regs felt that way after a while bc I'd have n insane amount of "let me take care of you" captains yet they'd never ever ever tip toward a countdown but be begging me to hit them up on the back end. Sounds like seeking arrangement with tokens
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Re: MFC losers freeloaders - we need to start teaching them what to do
I wish that site would have a blackout feature which allows only tippers to see the show. I know it is possible because an old camsite called Xpeepz had a blackout option. I sent an email a couple of years ago to MFC support if they would consider having that feature and they said no. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? Although there are a few amazing tippers on the site, most members do not tip. Some these freeloaders have the nerve to tell the tippers not to tip and will harass the tipper if he a whale. For many girls, 2-4 regulars will make up 90% of their income. The entitlement of many the members is absurd.
Although I find MFC more interesting and fun than Streamate, my income was too unreliable to support myself just camming on MFC.
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Re: MFC losers freeloaders - we need to start teaching them what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AvaLove
I wish that site would have a blackout feature which allows only rippers to see the show.
CB does and thats y i think a lot of them are jumping ship on MFC and going to CB - the apps and bots
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Re: MFC losers freeloaders - we need to start teaching them what to do
"We got the pussy we got control - is how it should be. Guys will be happy to tip - guys need to know is expected."
Yes! I thought I was always in control, because it's my room and my body, etc. And I was not shy with the ban button. But my last site (not MFC) I had two regulars who never tipped me, yet were online chatting EVERY single TIME I was online. Sure, I like my room to be interactive vs. silent. Absolutely everyone who comes in knows I'm a talker. But the worst thing was when I let these two regulars know I was leaving this particular site because my hourly was taken away and I simply won't make enough without for it to be deemed worthy. They took NO responsibility, one apologized for never tipping and thanked me for my friendship...
But the friendship should be a BONUS! Not a given! This is my job first & foremost, do they think I live in fantasyland and don't have bills to pay? Now I have to decide whether to block them on Twitter or bring them along on whichever site I go to next. I think the latter would be a mistake, what do you girls think?
They would actually thank other guys who tipped for flashes &whatnot. Nice I guess, but I'm like -_-
100% agree with the black out feature all across the board! I would routinely kick out quiet non-tippers before showing skin if the room audience was small enough to do so quickly.
Good post, Dorothea. This subject has been weighing heavily on my mind as of late.
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Re: MFC losers freeloaders - we need to start teaching them what to do
Hmm. I totally agree -- 95% of the people on ANY given cam site are not going to tip you but... I do think it's truly all in the hustle. I'm a PVT based girl myself, but I Recently ran a show on CB -- After about 2 hours, the same ONE guy who had tipped me all night basically gave me my entire goal for the show since not a single other person tipped me. My only successful "show" on CB after a week or so of broadcasting, so IDK. I really think the problem is a disconnect between the model and the customer based on the original post.
This job is all sales. SELL yourself, 100% of the time, no matter what. On token sites, its just gonna take time to build up a following, its normal. After a while of no tipping from a chatty charlie, I just start to completely ignore them, making it a point to chat with others or just say "HI (insert their stupid username here), how's your night going? Oh thats great, Im bored out of my mind! I want to play!" *Starts dancing sexy but stops if no one catches on and tips* LOL... The freeloader will usually leave. Press them to tip you but you have to do it sensually. Make them think it was THEIR idea to tip you, not you pressing them It's all in the seduction and then the emotional connection. Token sites are FRIENDSHIP based. Those whales are tipping tokens to get your attention, friendship, and to gain recognition from the other losers in your room... I'd just put up a room topic that says Chatting for fun but you only get one free hour and then if you're not kind enough to tip, you'll be kicked/banned etc. And then when someone is freeloading, call them out, playfully.
"Wow, you guys must not be horny today, I can't believe no one has tipped to get my clothes off!"
"You guys all having ED problems or somethin' tonight?" (Giggle) "Just kidding, I know you're not, just usually someone tries to get me naked/fucking myself before now!"
"So today is opposite day... Instead of getting tipped and getting naked (etc), how bout I put on more clothes and do something totally opposite of sexy?" (laugh & start putting more clothes on) ... They'll either tip you to keep yourself half naked or get you naked, or the ones that are more interested in your personality will appreciate your sense of humor... And so now you're wearing 7 sweaters and 3 pairs of yoga pants and if you laugh and make it funny, usually someone will chime in and be charmed by how happy-go-lucky (I dont need this money!) you are. They want to feel special too, like they're truly helping you, so you have to learn the fine line between pushing them away a little bit and then reeling them in. Another cam girl here, I forget who now, so sorry! But she told me to read the book Ho Tactics by G.L. Lambert.... Great way to look at the situation of camming as a whole (Even tho thats not what the book is directly about) and any way to interact with men. If it's not working well for you how you're doing it, try a different way? Or maybe just a different website could help! Private based site may work better for you?
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Re: MFC losers freeloaders - we need to start teaching them what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DelishIrish
one apologized for never tipping and thanked me for my friendship...
what friendship? ha ha! more like a digital rape or stealing stuff or making you pay for everything! your mistake was not ending this "friendship" early on...as in completely ignore.Am against blocking unless someone is dangerous or just plain nasty - these types will see blocking as extra attention
this is what you can do- if you are following them on twitter unfollow but don't block
invite them to new site - when they show up say hello and from then on ignore- they can chat with each other or watch or jackoff- whatever - but dont talk/answer or anything - they ask a question smile sweetly and pretend you busy typing whatever...
inviting them over is smart cause it looks like you have followers and just use them for that - they owe you
most likely they will go away on their own once no more freebie stuff (lmao fucking friendship right? ha ha)
if any of them shapes up and tips - unlikely but possible- then you can chat with them and answer their questions etc
do it only (invite them) if you are able to be cold and ignoring towards them otherwise yes block them
frankly you are beautiful and don't need this - conversation is easy to get wtf are they thinking
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Re: MFC losers freeloaders - we need to start teaching them what to do
I must get that book Ho Tactics! I noticed it before and have it on my list
Yes - I want to try streamate- are there any other private based sites?
Thank you for writing Freaky - I did a lot of this already so I think am getting better at it- however I have days when am just nice and open to things and then I regret it.
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Re: MFC losers freeloaders - we need to start teaching them what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DelishIrish
"We got the pussy we got control - is how it should be. Guys will be happy to tip - guys need to know is expected."
Yes! I thought I was always in control, because it's my room and my body, etc. And I was not shy with the ban button. But my last site (not MFC) I had two regulars who never tipped me, yet were online chatting EVERY single TIME I was online. Sure, I like my room to be interactive vs. silent. Absolutely everyone who comes in knows I'm a talker. But the worst thing was when I let these two regulars know I was leaving this particular site because my hourly was taken away and I simply won't make enough without for it to be deemed worthy. They took NO responsibility, one apologized for never tipping and thanked me for my friendship...
But the friendship should be a BONUS! Not a given! This is my job first & foremost, do they think I live in fantasyland and don't have bills to pay? Now I have to decide whether to block them on Twitter or bring them along on whichever site I go to next. I think the latter would be a mistake, what do you girls think?
They would actually thank other guys who tipped for flashes &whatnot. Nice I guess, but I'm like -_-
100% agree with the black out feature all across the board! I would routinely kick out non-tippers before showing skin if the room audience was small enough to do so quickly.
Good post, Dorothea. This subject has been weighing heavily on my mind as of late.
Oh Girl I am so glad you asked. Ahem, I say FUCK EM! They are not regulars if they are not tipping. Thats a regular freeloader. Thats the definition of a freeloader. My first instinct is to tell you to block them on twitter. But I say wait until you tweet your new site. When they show up and announce themselves THEN BLOCK em. That way you know who the losers are right away. You don't owe them anything. There is absolutely nothing wrong with telling these fools to tip. I don't know how long they sat in your room but uh no. Don't keep guys like that around. They aren't paying you and may have cost you money from other guys because they held your attention for free. They're supposed to pay you for attention. Guys who can't do that need to shut the fuck up. Train them. I cuss a lot on here but really I'm sweet and assertive in my chatroom until they come at me wrong.
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Re: MFC losers freeloaders - we need to start teaching them what to do
I ignore them or log off. Even if it's only for like 15/20mins. They need to know that tips keep me online and interacting. I check everyones tokens if you have no tokens you get kicked and you can come back when you have some. I know most models don't run their rooms this way, most of them want as many people in the room as possible. But if you have no tokens, then there is no way you can help me so bye lol I often have very talkative members in my room and once the tips stop flowing, they get ignored, and once they get ignored they usually just leave on their own. Sometimes if they are bitching or talking about something unsexy I kick them out because who wants the members that do have tokens getting turned off? Not me.
I know what you mean about giving more and more for free. It is getting pretty ridiculous. I saw someone advertise on twitter doing a contest for a date and a paid flight with the date like what in the fuck? That would be so expensive just to entice people to tip! I hate the whole selling snapchat, kik, phone # thing like it makes me feel like I work 24/7 but that is the hustle now and that's what the guys seem to like & what sells. Maybe CB is the better site for you
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Re: MFC losers freeloaders - we need to start teaching them what to do
Thanks, ladies ^.^
I have tried quite a few of those things, FreakyFranky. I'd cover up if no one tips for awhile, etc. "Nobody wants to play with me today? Hmm I guess I'll come back tomorrow and try to get some real men." "You guys are lame tonight BYE!" *logs out* (after a frustrating evening)
I used to be super sassy in my room and then thought that was affecting my $$$ bottom line, but I see now I was wrong & I'll have to turn it back up. I'm sick of giving the girlfriend experience for nothing or next to nothing. I am going to steal what someone else said, "It's your job to beg/pay for my attention, not the other way around"
"They are not regulars if they are not tipping. Thats a regular freeloader. Thats the definition of a freeloader."
Thank you for reminding me of this, phatgirldynomite!!!
I will go ahead and tweet when I'm on and see how these two act, and VERY likely flat out block accordingly.
I just need to get out of the mindset that an active chat is also helping bring ppl in / making them stay. It's ME! I am the main attraction, not all about the sideline conversation.
<3
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Re: MFC losers freeloaders - we need to start teaching them what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MissAdriana
I know what you mean about giving more and more for free. It is getting pretty ridiculous. I saw someone advertise on twitter doing a contest for a date and a paid flight with the date like what in the fuck? That would be so expensive just to entice people to tip!
WUT. Out-fkn-rageous.
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Re: MFC losers freeloaders - we need to start teaching them what to do
I have a natural barometer in me that tells me when am starting to get used.
So far was really successful at getting money and gifts from guys in real life.
My ex bought me diamonds all the time.Is cause am awesome but I also trained him to do that.I no longer want a relationship other than digital stuff so now am camming.
My barometer is going off like crazy and am angry often on mfc. Yes am only starting on there and dont have a following and my camscore is only about 2000 now but it was lower. But the amount of loser assholes I encounter there is staggering. I truly believe these people are also there this way cause models are way too giving. It is showing vagina for 5 tokens deal. is fucking chatting with some LOSER for free for hours and or days and weeks. Is fucking smiling if some asshole basic member asks a question. is allowing basics to chat at all. Is shoving dildo in ass in room when no one tips. For some reason what is the worst though (to me) is the super chatty models who chat with fuckers who never tip them. A show is one thing. But fucking stop chatting for days with the assholes who don't tip. They -the losers- KNOW THEY ARE USING YOU. They came to your room knowing they will use you. A gullible model is the one who is allowing self to be used based on compliments and emoticans and rating and admiring bs.
The guys who receive priviledge of chatting with model should be tippers. Each new guy should be given a chance free yes say hello chat a bit - but then later he is no longer new.
I guess is my opinion and can't change that. there will always be gullible women who believe some asshole loves them while he fucks her sister behind her back or gullible models who believe a guy likes her and is a friend but he never ever tips her.I just wish there were less of the gullible models cause I think women in sex industry are different - smarter and is easier for them to detect a human nature.Anyway I hope the models who are gullible also learn fast so the camming industry stays on top cause I love doing this.
Yeah well any dude who tries to use me is not welcome. i ignore assholes who don't tip - i dont ban them but no matter how much chat they give after i establish they don't tip - i ignore.I do it more and more now- after realizing how awful it feels to chat with cheap dudes. They leave for another models room - usually. If they never found a model who is willing to give them attention free the tipping would start am sure. I don't ban them cause for me is an effort to use the button and since they don't tip I do absolutely nothing that has any connection to them.They don't exist.
I just hate it when guys use women. I want to see the other way around or an equal experience - that would be best. An equal experience is - guy gives gifts = girl gives gifts.Too many room is : girl gives gifts = guy takes and leaves
wtf
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Re: MFC losers freeloaders - we need to start teaching them what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MissAdriana
I ignore them or log off.
I totally did that too. Now am trying to stop. I only ignore them. If I log off I lose momentum and then other guys can't find me...The asshole won- not only he took and did not tip but now others can't either...
However the "nice" chatty non tippers can ruin my mood so much i end up logging off.
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Re: MFC losers freeloaders - we need to start teaching them what to do
I absolutely hated MFC, despite doing well on there as a consistent top 100 model. I wrote a big rant on it on a different forum but I'm not sure I want to share it on here since this forum is more easily view-able by the public. Suffice it to say that there is no solving MFC and, for me, it was very stressful even though I considered myself successful in the top 100. The free loaders and feeling like I'm in direct competition with fellow models was just the tip of the ice burg for me in how much I didn't care for the site. My solution was to move on from the site entirely and I'm currently settled on Bonga. There surely is no perfect camming site but it really comes down to what works best for you. I wish you luck in whatever you end up deciding to do, OP ^_^
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Re: MFC losers freeloaders - we need to start teaching them what to do
Hi Miqote! I know how you feel and read your stuff there and did not sound to me like rant at all. More like logical explanation and it all made sense.
I agree to all of it that you wrote but i still love mfc - am taking the challenge. Will train the tippers using my training of dudes technique- but am still new and fresh and don't know how I will feel in a month or if it will work there.
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Re: MFC losers freeloaders - we need to start teaching them what to do
Miqote I sent you a pm about bonga but not sure if anything went through cause nothing shows in my sent folder- if it did not go through will resend. :)
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Re: MFC losers freeloaders - we need to start teaching them what to do
I remember that whenever my top tipper wasn't in my room, other members would whine "Why isn't ___ here?" That used to piss me off. I would tell them "Y'all gotta stop depending on __ to be here all the time tipping everything. That's not right. He's allowed to have a life outside of my chat room, and y'all need to be contributing too." People got so fucking used to the same 1 or 2 regs tipping damn near my entire topic, and then you'd have the idiots who'd come in saying stuff like "Ooh, looks like I got here just in time."
That was why it made me smile when I'd get a tip note saying "This is just for you. You don't need to flash for these idiots." Lol.
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Re: MFC losers freeloaders - we need to start teaching them what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheBrownFox
then you'd have the idiots who'd come in saying stuff like "Ooh, looks like I got here just in time."
and u know they weren't really "just " getting there - they were creeping on u on the homepage looking at ur screen cap waiting for the good part. those " i got here just in time" guys never contribute because they go from room to room looking for the action watch the free for them show then go on the next "pussy hunt".
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Re: MFC losers freeloaders - we need to start teaching them what to do
Yes when freeloaders types anything is all lies and that includes "got here just in time", "am broke and cannot tip", "am your friend", "helping you" and other- is all lies.
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Re: MFC losers freeloaders - we need to start teaching them what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MissAdriana
I ignore them or log off. Even if it's only for like 15/20mins. They need to know that tips keep me online and interacting. I check everyones tokens if you have no tokens you get kicked and you can come back when you have some. I know most models don't run their rooms this way, most of them want as many people in the room as possible. But if you have no tokens, then there is no way you can help me so bye lol I often have very talkative members in my room and once the tips stop flowing, they get ignored, and once they get ignored they usually just leave on their own. Sometimes if they are bitching or talking about something unsexy I kick them out because who wants the members that do have tokens getting turned off? Not me.
I know what you mean about giving more and more for free. It is getting pretty ridiculous. I saw someone advertise on twitter doing a contest for a date and a paid flight with the date like what in the fuck? That would be so expensive just to entice people to tip! I hate the whole selling snapchat, kik, phone # thing like it makes me feel like I work 24/7 but that is the hustle now and that's what the guys seem to like & what sells. Maybe CB is the better site for you
The paid flights and dates are so uncalled for. It makes a lot of guys feel that all cam girls are book able when the reality is some girls use a site like MFC for escorting. Plain and simple. That's beyond offering GFE. I remember how guys used to act over 100 tokens...imagine what they feel they get for 10,000? It is unhealthy to work round the clock updating apps that don't even have porn in their tos and allowing people to reach u 24/7. so draining. I spent all my time updating social media and it took forever to get online or do anything bc every time is open my phone is have a ton of messages from guys I didn't really want to talk to...Monday-Sunday.
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Re: MFC losers freeloaders - we need to start teaching them what to do
I know it seems like a lot of the time so many girls are giving away free pussy on MFC, but I assure you it's not the case. The whole premise of MFC is "free" stuff. The whole premise of token sites is "free" stuff. As long as someone is tipping, the girl will do something most of the time unless they are really stupid.
What do girls get in exchange for performing sex acts for tips? Yes, she will get exposed to those who don't tip at all, and they essentially get a "free" show. But herein lies the mystery of men. Men love personalized, real time interaction more than watching sex acts passively. You see, if they didn't care about the live interaction part of camming, we would not exist, we would not be making money because men could just go to the tube sites and that would be it.
So, there's your leverage and your advantage on token sites. You get more traffic in your room, you perform for tips, like a busker performer on the street...will the busker stop performing because not every person who is watching is tipping him? Everyone can watch and at the same time, the chances are higher you will get discovered simply because you are exposed to more people. That's why the potential is so high on MFC or on any high traffic token site. That's why it's so important to sell things like vid/pic sets because your profile will get looked at by more men who in turn, may buy your vids/pic sets just like that busker at the subway station who sells his cd compilation.
To yell at men who don't tip you and who go from room to room is counter-productive. No matter what you do, you can't make anyone tip you. They do it out of love, appreciation, gratitude, because they want your special attention and because they want to buy your products. If you don't like the way MFC/token sites work, then don't cam on them.
Private sites expose you to less and at the same time, you are more likely to only perform when you are actually being paid however, you are giving up a higher percentage, getting less exposure and limited to what you can sell under stricter rules.
Either way, the debate will always continue, are private sites better? Are token sites better? In the end, it's the sites that make YOU the most money that win.