Future of online sex industry - financial discrimination by credit card processors
Quote:
Recent censorship enacted at FetLife is the result of
financial discrimination by multiple credit card processors who have ceased business with FetLife for what the processors claim are “Illegal or Immoral” reasons. It began for users one week ago when FetLife announced changes to content guidelines, stating “We can no longer allow FetLifers to publicly share sexual pics and vids containing blood visible in them.” Then without warning, Fetlife deleted hundreds of groups and literally thousands of fetish categories that represented a range of kinky communities (like ones with hypnosis, blood, and humiliation in the name). This was in response to to significant pressure from FetLife’s credit card processor.
FetLife’s founder John Baku said today in an apologetic post, “Last Tuesday we got a notice that one of our merchant accounts was shutting us down. One of the card companies contacted them directly and told the bank to stop processing for us. The bank asked for more information, but the only thing they could get from the card company was that part of it had to do with “blood, needles, and vampirism.” … Three days later, we get another notice, this time from our other merchant account. They got a similar call from the same card company, and they were asked to close our account. This time they were told it was for “Illegal or Immoral” reasons. … The card brand also required the banks to add us to the list which will make it tough for us to ever get a merchant account again, at least for the foreseeable future.”
VB note: Coinbase also dropped FetLife for being a kinky site.
https://www.tinynibbles.com/blogarch...rosshairs.html
https://fetlife.com/groups/311/group_posts/10326706
Quote:
Monday a federal appeals court ruled that pressuring credit card companies like Visa and Mastercard to stop doing business with speech-protected websites violates their First Amendment rights. Specifically ones that feature content from sex workers. And in June, the FDIC clarified that it's against the rules for businesses like PayPal, Chase and Square to refuse business or close accounts based on "high risk" assessments related to human sexuality. But it may not be enough to stop what's become an entrenched pattern of systematic discrimination by payment processors -- one that disproportionately denies financial opportunities for women.
https://www.engadget.com/2015/12/02/...-sex-industry/
Discrimination isn't news by any means but I have this sneaking feeling they are creeping in on us... I fear the day isn't far off where we all have a much harder time earning a living doing sex work online.
What can we do to protect ourselves? I try to take precautions to stay as independent and in control of my money and career as possible.. But these issues are so huge they seem out of reach. How can we prepare for the future? Whether it be in 1, 5, or 10 years this fight becomes increasingly more difficult... Having another plan for getting paid is so important.
Anyone have any greater insight? Do you think we will see this effecting cam and clip sites soon?
What are options for alternative payment possibilities outside of this scope? It seems even bitcoin sites are complying with this. Not sure if all bitcoin or just coinbase...
Re: Future of online sex industry - financial discrimination by credit card processor
Many card companies have disallowed these words for some time now "hypnosis, blood, and humiliation" Some go even further and will not allow you to use words like forced intox, intoxication, alcohol and more. But its left up to the platforms that use these card companies to process payments to enforce the rule. Many I feel do not and are flying under the radar until merchant pulls the plug. Going forward you will probably see more platforms start to make changes once the word spreads.
Re: Future of online sex industry - financial discrimination by credit card processor
This came from the fetlife memo
With the help of the NCSF, lawyers, partners, and merchant providers, we came up with the following pillars that will make up our guidelines:
Nothing non-consensual (abduction, rape, etc.)
Nothing that impairs consent (drugs, alcohol, etc.)
No permanent or lasting damage (snuff, lacerations, deep cutting, etc.)
No hate speech (Nazi roleplay, race play, etc.)
Nothing that falls under obscenity (incest, etc. )
These guidelines aren’t intended to be a negative comment against your kink or your fantasies. Some things we believe can be done ethically, like CNC or hypnosis, but they can also be considered non-consensual in a legal context, and we have to take into account the opinions of the authorities and merchant accounts as well to not only survive but thrive as a community.
Even if you are independent and perform on skype you will still need to remain compliant with your merchant accounts guidelines. At least don't have these things written on the site if you're into the kinks that are disallowed. Lots of merchants do site reviews from time to time. I got spanked years ago because I had something on a site that was not inline with Mastercards policies. Can't remember exactly what it was but zombaio (fuck them) decided to suspend me until it was fixed and then increased their fee as a result.
Re: Future of online sex industry - financial discrimination by credit card processor
This is why you need to have your exit strategy planned out.
The industry is changing, and you can't really wait around for the big box cam sites or content selling sites to adjust first so we can adjust after.
you need to start being a leader in how you make money for yourself.
Re: Future of online sex industry - financial discrimination by credit card processor
Yes exactly. Like I said I do things as independent as possible but wondering if after a big site like FetLife made such huge changes if we will start seeing other big sites make (permanent, detrimental) changes too. The reality is even working as independently as possible with the most control over your money, it is impossible to compete with traffic that massive sites bring - they do have their benefit in that regard. I think it's good to discuss what things we can do to sway customers, sex workers and site owners in a direction that will be beneficial to us and broadening ways we accept payment.
Re: Future of online sex industry - financial discrimination by credit card processor
Quote:
Originally Posted by
limecoconut
Yes exactly. Like I said I do things as independent as possible but wondering if after a big site like FetLife made such huge changes if we will start seeing other big sites make (permanent, detrimental) changes too. The reality is even working as independently as possible with the most control over your money, it is impossible to compete with traffic that massive sites bring - they do have their benefit in that regard. I think it's good to discuss what things we can do to sway customers, sex workers and site owners in a direction that will be beneficial to us and broadening ways we accept payment.
Its good that you're concerned because this means that you will start to look at your own business differently. But truthfully this is something that we talk about all the time around here. Will other sites start to fully comply with the contracts they signed, yup probably. Will this mean you won't be successful, not at all. For the kinkier models who've built their business around things like scat,blood play,pedophilia,accomplice fantasies etc you may feel the squeeze before the rest of us who don't go there. Things are shifting but I really think that it will just weed out a bunch of people who can't put in the work for whatever reason. I don't think its the end of the world and like others have said look for an alternative means of income. So long as it's not some pyramid scam or a business venture that relies on recruitment you will be fine. Try not to panic and look at what you have to offer that could make you stand out and also now may be the time to develop those ideas that you may have brushed aside. Sorry if I sound like a fortune cookie. :)
Re: Future of online sex industry - financial discrimination by credit card processor
Actually, limecoconut, allow for me to talk more in depth about this problem. First, this was on fetlife to look into different payment processors if they were going to allow people to talk about more taboo stuff. Now, I will say this about coinbase as well. Coinbase never liked adult and other high risk industries using their processors. So, they got rid of many different companies that represented these industries. This is something that fetlife should have looked into.
Anyways, I was talking to my other sex worker friends and they we decided to have more control over our careers. So I started looking having bitcoin and other cryptocurrency processors for my pso/camming sites. Why? Because most of the credit card processors had lots of limitations to what providers could offer. So, I decided to pick up a couple of payment processors that would please myself and clients. In addition, I cut out the middle man when it came to my kik, texting and panty sales. Personally, I got sick of company owners' not looking into the limitations of their payment processors. So, I created my own business to take total control of my brands, work, and other industry related stuff. Seriously, I checked my p's and q's in this industry when it comes to every fetish and every legal limitation :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
limecoconut
https://www.tinynibbles.com/blogarch...rosshairs.html
https://fetlife.com/groups/311/group_posts/10326706
https://www.engadget.com/2015/12/02/...-sex-industry/
Discrimination isn't news by any means but I have this sneaking feeling they are creeping in on us... I fear the day isn't far off where we all have a much harder time earning a living doing sex work online.
What can we do to protect ourselves? I try to take precautions to stay as independent and in control of my money and career as possible.. But these issues are so huge they seem out of reach. How can we prepare for the future? Whether it be in 1, 5, or 10 years this fight becomes increasingly more difficult... Having another plan for getting paid is so important.
Anyone have any greater insight? Do you think we will see this effecting cam and clip sites soon?
What are options for alternative payment possibilities outside of this scope? It seems even bitcoin sites are complying with this. Not sure if all bitcoin or just coinbase...
Re: Future of online sex industry - financial discrimination by credit card processor
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PhatGirlDynomite!!!
Many card companies have disallowed these words for some time now "hypnosis, blood, and humiliation" Some go even further and will not allow you to use words like forced intox, intoxication, alcohol and more. But its left up to the platforms that use these card companies to process payments to enforce the rule. Many I feel do not and are flying under the radar until merchant pulls the plug. Going forward you will probably see more platforms start to make changes once the word spreads.
Also vore and ingestion. I was slapped for those by CCBill a couple of years ago.
Re: Future of online sex industry - financial discrimination by credit card processor
That is interesting,sexysusie :) I did not know that you can get in trouble for saying ingestion :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sexysusie
Also vore and ingestion. I was slapped for those by CCBill a couple of years ago.
Re: Future of online sex industry - financial discrimination by credit card processor
I can understand why hypnosis, blood, intoxication/forced intox would be pulled but not humiliation? I really hope humiliation doesn't get pulled from other sites (sm, c4s, cams, etc).
Re: Future of online sex industry - financial discrimination by credit card processor
I really dont understand this bullshit. If theyve ruled that is against the law for them to be doing this, why are they being allowed to? I can see small companies to get hit by this that cant defend themselves.. but big sites like clips4sale.. can they even get away with it? C4S has a ton of money and I am sure lawyers to go to bat for them.
DonaDiabla what processors do you use then besides bitcoin? I know bitcoin is more and more accepted these days. I dont know how it works though. I'll never understand the uritanical attitude towards sex work from these payment processors and even banks. Its not fair and I feel like sex workers need to come together and make a bigger stink about this. I can understand some limitations, like pedo and rape and snuff... but other stuff? Some of it is really broad, like humiliation. And humiliation is a HUGE part of what I do. It's scary to think these things will not even be able to be mentioned anymore.
Re: Future of online sex industry - financial discrimination by credit card processor
Yes absolutely DonaDiabla that's exactly what I'm getting at. And hoping talking about it more will help others become more self reliant too. Would you mind sharing here or in pm the payment solutions you are using? I've been doing a lot of research on that topic lately and trying to take my business into my own hands but it's hard knowing which services are trustworthy etc. I prefer to hear it from other women and sex workers which is why I love SW so much.
Re: Future of online sex industry - financial discrimination by credit card processor
They are so hypocritical. They don't mind taking Hollywood's money or money from HBO which is full of all of that and more.
I've had to reword so much of my website and clip sales wording to keep them from taking my payment processing down. So annoying.
Re: Future of online sex industry - financial discrimination by credit card processor
Mistress X,
I will tell you what I know about bitcoin payment processors and beyond. First, I would suggest that most sex workers who want to become more independent should look into merchant accounts who multi-currency options including several cryptocurrencies including bitcoin and titcoin. This will create more options for both your clients and yourself. Places such as Coinpayments and Pay Services are used by several different sex workers (mainly dommes however). Now, coinpayments.net should be used for payments under 5000 per month.
Bitcoin processors never to use as an sex worker include bitpay, coinbase, torwallet, and fogpay. Bitpay only accepts the most vanilla sex workers (they hate any type of fetish) and will terminate your account without merit. Coinbase hates all "alternative" industries including sex work, marijuana sales, forex, and gambling. Torwallet and Forpay seem good in theory but they have well-known negative reputations. In addition, if you run a small site then you could look into getting a bitcoin or online titcoin wallet. This way, you can make money off fetishes that credit-card companies will look down on such as mind control and forced intoxication. For more privacy; you would need to look into coin+join and stealth. For more darker fetishes, many sex workers (online dommes, webcam models, and phone sex operators) often use Dark Wallet or Bitcoin fog. While bitcoin and other cryptocurrency do not offer the best solutions for sex workers, they can offer more freedom in this growing puritanical world.
Good luck and happy hunting, Mistress X :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MistressX
I really dont understand this bullshit. If theyve ruled that is against the law for them to be doing this, why are they being allowed to? I can see small companies to get hit by this that cant defend themselves.. but big sites like clips4sale.. can they even get away with it? C4S has a ton of money and I am sure lawyers to go to bat for them.
DonaDiabla what processors do you use then besides bitcoin? I know bitcoin is more and more accepted these days. I dont know how it works though. I'll never understand the uritanical attitude towards sex work from these payment processors and even banks. Its not fair and I feel like sex workers need to come together and make a bigger stink about this. I can understand some limitations, like pedo and rape and snuff... but other stuff? Some of it is really broad, like humiliation. And humiliation is a HUGE part of what I do. It's scary to think these things will not even be able to be mentioned anymore.
Re: Future of online sex industry - financial discrimination by credit card processor
Thank you for this. I just started using bitcoin again. It's come a long way! And no doubt in part because of sex workers pushing innovation.
Because of coinbase's reputation I've been receiving funds to blockchain > coinbase > my bank. Do you recommend not using them for anything?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DonaDiabla
Mistress X,
I will tell you what I know about bitcoin payment processors and beyond. First, I would suggest that most sex workers who want to become more independent should look into merchant accounts who multi-currency options including several cryptocurrencies including bitcoin and titcoin. This will create more options for both your clients and yourself. Places such as Coinpayments and Pay Services are used by several different sex workers (mainly dommes however). Now, coinpayments.net should be used for payments under 5000 per month.
Bitcoin processors never to use as an sex worker include bitpay, coinbase, torwallet, and fogpay. Bitpay only accepts the most vanilla sex workers (they hate any type of fetish) and will terminate your account without merit. Coinbase hates all "alternative" industries including sex work, marijuana sales, forex, and gambling. Torwallet and Forpay seem good in theory but they have well-known negative reputations. In addition, if you run a small site then you could look into getting a bitcoin or online titcoin wallet. This way, you can make money off fetishes that credit-card companies will look down on such as mind control and forced intoxication. For more privacy; you would need to look into coin+join and stealth. For more darker fetishes, many sex workers (online dommes, webcam models, and phone sex operators) often use Dark Wallet or Bitcoin fog. While bitcoin and other cryptocurrency do not offer the best solutions for sex workers, they can offer more freedom in this growing puritanical world.
Good luck and happy hunting, Mistress X :)
Re: Future of online sex industry - financial discrimination by credit card processor
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DonaDiabla
Mistress X,
I will tell you what I know about bitcoin payment processors and beyond. First, I would suggest that most sex workers who want to become more independent should look into merchant accounts who multi-currency options including several cryptocurrencies including bitcoin and titcoin. This will create more options for both your clients and yourself. Places such as Coinpayments and Pay Services are used by several different sex workers (mainly dommes however). Now, coinpayments.net should be used for payments under 5000 per month.
Bitcoin processors never to use as an sex worker include bitpay, coinbase, torwallet, and fogpay. Bitpay only accepts the most vanilla sex workers (they hate any type of fetish) and will terminate your account without merit. Coinbase hates all "alternative" industries including sex work, marijuana sales, forex, and gambling. Torwallet and Forpay seem good in theory but they have well-known negative reputations. In addition, if you run a small site then you could look into getting a bitcoin or online titcoin wallet. This way, you can make money off fetishes that credit-card companies will look down on such as mind control and forced intoxication. For more privacy; you would need to look into coin+join and stealth. For more darker fetishes, many sex workers (online dommes, webcam models, and phone sex operators) often use Dark Wallet or Bitcoin fog. While bitcoin and other cryptocurrency do not offer the best solutions for sex workers, they can offer more freedom in this growing puritanical world.
Good luck and happy hunting, Mistress X :)
Hey Dona,
I couldnt find anywhere in bitpays T and C's that it could not be used for adult content however it does say that it is set up under the state of Georgia so this may explain it.