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Is making racial humiliation racist?
Totes clickbait title... sorry! Theres a twitter account outing white dommes who make racial content. This isnt something I do myself, but my thoughts on the subject are confusing. If its possible to have a calm discussion without it getting nasty then I think it might help me personally and maybe others, who knows. Ill report my own post because im aware the thread will probably need an eye kept on it <3
Is banning racial humiliation clips kink shaming towards the people of colour who enjoy them? Or because racism is more prolific and dangerous than kink shaming then that takes precedence? AFAIK the white dommes who have been called out for this are not being racist in any other parts of thir lives, only in clips, often customs for men of colour.
While the style of clip is not to my taste and I wouldnt be able to perform it well, I do understand that some people get off on things I dont. But as Whitey McWhite the thought of a white guy buying the clips and jerking off over them makes me feel sick and angry. But should men of colour not get their kink because of racists?
eta: as a white person do I even get to decide on what I think is racist or not? I want to try and be the best person I can be I guess, which is why Im asking these questions
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Re: Is making racial humiliation racist?
As a white person, you don't get to decide what's racist or not when it comes to other minority groups.
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Re: Is making racial humiliation racist?
I get an awful lot of racial humiliation customs and I do it really well. However, I've put off making a general for sale clip because of this very dilemma. A lot of guys from all different races come to me for it. I know black girls who have white guys ask for the same. I'm in no way racist but do worry that putting that kind of content out will reflect on me personally when it's purely filling a need of others.
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Re: Is making racial humiliation racist?
I wish you would have waited for feedback from a mod BEFORE posting this. Let me wake up and come back to this later.
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Re: Is making racial humiliation racist?
unlocking this with some important ground rules below
before I begin I want to admit that I have no idea about the controversy that's going on with this topic on twitter, which is apparently a lot. not negating the relevancy of the topic, just can't fathom venturing to twitter to learn anything deeper conceptually than what 140 chars can allow which isn't much so I'm not about to go exploring just to read peeps talking shit to each other. social media seems to be more about talking than listening anyways, honestly I find that ish insufferably rude and boring and pathetically bombastic and not something I want in my life. I ignore peeps thus engaged with vigor and find my life much better for it. so yeah, willfully oblivious to the twitter/mv stuff about this
luckily none of that is really relevant here. just wrote the above to be clear about where I'm situated in writing the below
what IS relevant is that every thread on sw that ever even remotely relates to social race in cc turns into a meltdown of adults incapable of this particular discussion. It's highly embarrassing to everyone else (aka most of us) who aren't here to score points/fight/work off the tension of a bad day and it is not something that neither Phat nor I are interested in managing
so ground rules:
-discuss the topic if so desired, with specificity and respect. this is non negotiable. any and all violations of the respect tenet will be pointed per post, meaning that if someone gets riled and posts a ton of anger/trolling/etc there will be an infraction for each post. not per thread, per post.
-no debates as to whether racism exists. in the lived experience of peeps who are a part of our shared community. it does. that really should be enough. it is enough.
-quoting and/or using the n word is an immediate infraction, again per instance, regardless of context. Not wanted on this voyage
-no fighting. we are adults capable of respectful debate, not flaming. if someone posts crap, report and wait for Phat and I to handle it, which may not always be immediate. we have lives too and deserve time off and not being able to resist posting hate to hate is not an excuse for not acting right. report and go do something else, if you fight back just cuz an offensive post is there know what to expect in terms of consequence.
I feel embarrassed even having to write this, and I'm sure most peeps reading agree. to all of you I am really sorry, it is fucking pathetic and in no way a reflection on your or your conduct in this space. in every thread on this topic it's usually a small handful that ruin it for everyone else. this post isn't for you and thank you for that. those who can't be decent need to know the rules above though
honestly would love to have one thread in cc that deals with an issue of race and racism that could contribute thoughtful insight absent the rest of the ish that has characterized similar past posts and threads here that ended in..real disrespect and overt hate speech. consistently
much love to this community. this topic makes me inherently cranky cuz through it I've been exposed to so much ugliness in the past that has needed clean up but fuck that and no more. time we all hold ourselves to the really high, kind and imaginative standards we deserve.
peace and happy weekend
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Re: Is making racial humiliation racist?
Personally, in my opinion, I would not feel comfortable or enjoy race humiliation.I think it has a lot to do with years ago I was friends with and danced with a girl who was black and catered to a customer in this aspect, it was super slow season.The things she experienced emotionally traumatized her, it was upsetting talking to her about it I can't even imagine how she really felt.I think in her case the customer went way overboard, the things he said to her were so dehumanizing it made my knees week listing to her vent to me.I could not even imagine a person thinking the role play up let alone being physically turned on by it.
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Re: Is making racial humiliation racist?
I just remember that once on MFC, some guy asked if I'd do master/slave roleplay with him, and when I kindly told him no, he went off and started saying nasty racist shit (as well as stereotypical, rude remarks about Black women) to me. Just from hearing the word no from me, this dude went from 0 to 100 real quick that you could just tell that he'd been holding that shit in for a while, and couldn't wait to find a Black cam model to unleash it on. Very pathetic and disturbing.
It was weird, because up until that point, other guys who'd asked for race play always said "Okay, I understand" when I declined, and they always accepted it and moved the fuck on without being a dick. But this guy straight up had hate in his heart...
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Re: Is making racial humiliation racist?
Whilst I don't do racial humiliation clips myself I do think that this is another aspect to the Dom/sub roles and can be used as part of humiliation just like any other physical attribute such as a tiny peen or small stature. As long as both parties are consenting to providing this in a scene then I don't see an issue. Whilst this most certainly isn't a kink of mine in Camming or personal life, I most certainly do not judge those that either ask or provide this. As stated above what happens and is enjoyed in a sexual context may not be deemed acceptable outside of those realms but as long as those consenting to this role play understand when this is and isn't acceptable then I personally do not deem this as racism.
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Re: Is making racial humiliation racist?
It depends. There are true covert racists who can't go out and be racist in public like they desire so this would be a perfect outlet for them. They have supremacists beliefs and scout for unsuspecting people who are willing to be the subject of their racial humiliation/race fetish.
Then you have the people who are into s&m, into racial role play but would never harm the other person mentally or physically. I don't think this would involve humiliation though.
it's not something I would do (receiving or giving racial humiliation) - not even for money ..... because the lines between fantasy and reality can get blurred. Like how do you know whatever racial slurs a dude says in the heat of the moment isn't really just his true subconscious beliefs?
But if you can handle it and know there is a level of consent and respect and both know it's just fantasy then to each their own.
And also I do think this type of porn should have disclaimers so younger adults watching understand the element of reality vs. entertainment and fantasy
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Re: Is making racial humiliation racist?
should disclaimer this with I'm white so I dont feel my opinion is /that/ important here.
I think a lot of kinks are problematic, I'm submissive myself in real life and I have some very problematic kinks (both personally, i.e. related to my previous experiences, and societal) a lot of my kinks would seem at odds with the fact I'm a hardcore feminist, but I think fantasy is very different to reality. In terms of race play specifically I wouldn't offer it, I'd feel far far too uncomfortable with it - in fact it's a hard limit with me, even if a person of colour is asking me for it I just can't feel ok with it. at the same time I have no idea how I feel about others doing it, I also think things like sissification are really problematic but I dont judge others doing it, so I guess with race play it's the same? I dont think sex workers doing it should be outted and attacked for doing it - they are catering to someone else, but should they maybe think about it a bit and why they're happy to do it? sure (note: not a judgement on my part I just think you need to be sure).
Im mainly replying as I'm really interested to see other responses and if anyone can help me think over my thoughts and stuff
basically, I have very problematic kinks to so I wont judge people for having it, but am I comfortable? no - but does that even matter? probably not
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Re: Is making racial humiliation racist?
I think I have seen this person on twitter. I don't see why it's a big deal if it's for money. I doubt people that get paid for this do this for real.
I get paid to say some seriously fucked up shit with findom guys because all the ones I ever get are into sooo much more than just findom (why i laugh at pure findoms on social media). Like stomping the life out of these guys as they hand me money type shit. I don't think it makes me evil that I get paid to say these things. But hey ok. I'm kinda numb to it by this point although there's some things I do have hard limits for. But I don't judge those ladies that go past those limits of mine cuz they are not me.
Disclaimer- I'm white.
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Re: Is making racial humiliation racist?
I don't think it's necessarily racist, because we are doing things from the perspective of a salesperson. We're here to make money. I'm not a slut because I dance naked at a strip club or masturbate on the internet. I'm just a paid performer.
But are there other problems that come with it? Yes. I think this is one of those extremely slippery slopes that it's best to avoid. For the sanity of the performer as well as the customer.
I think race stuff is worse than just telling a guy they have a small penis or they're worthless... it digs into their entire culture, their humanity, their family, their upbringing, etc. It's one of the deepest ways to cut into someone.
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Re: Is making racial humiliation racist?
Dont you think that's part of the fetish? I do offer it, I don't think it's racism at all, I'd never dream of saying that stuff in real life and after I usually do a bit of 'aftercare' but they get off on the humiliation of it and some of that humiliation goes deep with them and that's what they like. But is that not the same as a 'damaged' person enjoying a bloody good whipping from a dom because in some deep dark place that they'd never admit, actually they feel that's their worth and therefore that's the only place they can truly feel free and get off?
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Re: Is making racial humiliation racist?
I do have an awful lot of guys...of all races asking for this. Its really important that the guys that come to me to feel they can trust me not to judge them for their kink and I don't at all. I indulge them and most have turned out to be some of the loveliest people I've ever had the pleasure of camming with. Not only that but they seem to really appreciate and respect me more than the 'fuck ass bb' brigade
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Re: Is making racial humiliation racist?
You might not be a "slut" but society has deemed people who adult industry as sluts and whores - because of the stigma associated. If we go for vanilla careers we can't even put that on application they'll instant be judging.
Just like there is a stigma/taboo associated with race play themes. People who cater to this fetish may not be racist but from the outside looking in, hearing and seeing what they do and say, it would appear to some (especially those not familiar with this fetish or familiar with the performers character in reality) as racist.
This also reminds me of those guys who came here talking about getting off on being kicked in the head. Like sure you can pay me to kick you but going too far could cause mental and physical harm.
Like how do you know, because you can't see emotional scars, when you've gone too far with the humiliation? Is there an agreement of what words to say/not say? A time limit? Do you just humiliate them, collect money and send them on their way?
Someone mentioned like an aftercare or debriefing and that seems like a good idea just to confirm after the session that they are mentally okay and nothing went past the point of consensual fantasy/fetish into emotional abuse.
*Disclaimer I'm not trying to insinuate anyone here to be racist because I don't know you personally. I'm just trying to understand this racial humiliation fetish from the perspective of a performer and customer.
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Re: Is making racial humiliation racist?
Oh this is a difficult subject. I don't know. I personally get these requests- I don't really care to do it I just think I am a black guy magnet. I make it very clear this is shit I only do because I am paid and act very respectful before/after shows as these guys are amongst my politest. I cannot tell if it is just a sex thing or deep mental health issues. I grab my inspiration from my racist ass family and one of my guy friends. In real life I really don't give a fuck about black men/white men they are all stupid and annoying. I think black women are really pretty (off topic).
What bothers me is when I get into a show and they expect raceplay and we did not discuss it beforehand and they just hit you with it like oh by the way...So pretty much even if I didn't "offer" it I would still get it. This has happened in shows without prior discussion quite a few times.
I also get white boys obsessed with black guys etc. I kinda wish I had tits instead of ass sometimes with this job.
@ People that think I should not do this- there's some days on cam that I would not meet my minimum goals if I did not take this up. I already decline a lot of shows because I do have several hard limits I respect such as no anal ever, incest, pedophilia, bestiality, and some (not all) general submissive shows. I respect if you disagree with me, but I like to be able to pay all my bills and have some money left over. I also do not advertise raceplay they just all find me.
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Re: Is making racial humiliation racist?
This is very interesting thread.Here are my thoughts on the racial humiliation fetish and it's sister fetish naziplay. First, raceplay and naziplay has different levels of intensity in different sections of sex work. For example,it more intense during camming than it is when you do it as phone sex operator or texter. As a minority woman who has several phone sex characters of color; raceplay and naziplay are very hardcore fetishes not for the faint of heart. Which is the reason why I do these fetishes only over the phone/texting and not as cam model.Are these fetishes racist in themselves? Yes and no. Actually, it depends on the clientele. Most raceplay and naziplay guys are just regular guys into these fetishes. Often they are good clients who tip handsomely, loyal, respectful before/after our sessions and leave great feedback if on a platform. In addition, we talk about these fetishes before starting the session over the phone...so we can have a safe and sane environment.
However, some that I have encountered do hold certain racist and even super right wing/fascist/anti-white philophiles. I would say those guys make these fetishes hard to do as an performer. Because it comes from a place of pure hate instead of their sexuality. I just block those guys after that session and keep the guys who just adore the kink because it is naughty to them. So, it does put raceplay and naziplay in a certain grey area. I will never offer these fetishes as an cam model because it can put you in a sticky area. But I will continue to offer raceplay and naziplay as pso/texter for a higher fee of course. I feel that performers should only offer these fetishes if they feel comfortable with them and do lot of proper aftercare. ;) I do not think that performers should be outed for performing these kinks for their customers.
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Re: Is making racial humiliation racist?
Great questions, Miss.a.p1600, about the racial fetishes and aftercare. Personally, I just do them over the phone/texting but we still discuss aftercare. We talked about the scene, what will be said, and how it will be said. If I am playing the submissive role, then I tell them how far that I could take it. If I am doing domination, then I asked them how far they want me to take it. Then we do great aftercare after the session because I make sure it is safe and sane. For me, these are not my kinks but I am really good at them and I make money off them. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miss.a.p1600
You might not be a "slut" but society has deemed people who adult industry as sluts and whores - because of the stigma associated. If we go for vanilla careers we can't even put that on application they'll instant be judging.
Just like there is a stigma/taboo associated with race play themes. People who cater to this fetish may not be racist but from the outside looking in, hearing and seeing what they do and say, it would appear to some (especially those not familiar with this fetish or familiar with the performers character in reality) as racist.
This also reminds me of those guys who came here talking about getting off on being kicked in the head. Like sure you can pay me to kick you but going too far could cause mental and physical harm.
Like how do you know, because you can't see emotional scars, when you've gone too far with the humiliation? Is there an agreement of what words to say/not say? A time limit? Do you just humiliate them, collect money and send them on their way?
Someone mentioned like an aftercare or debriefing and that seems like a good idea just to confirm after the session that they are mentally okay and nothing went past the point of consensual fantasy/fetish into emotional abuse.
*Disclaimer I'm not trying to insinuate anyone here to be racist because I don't know you personally. I'm just trying to understand this racial humiliation fetish from the perspective of a performer and customer.
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Re: Is making racial humiliation racist?
I'm white and I doing racial roleplay and humiliation is one of my biggest request. Just for the record my favorite color is green..as in $$$$!!
I'm not racist and truly don't give a fuk is you are black, blue, green purple or u icorn yellow.
I see everything that I do on cam as one thing only and that is acting! If u pay me and want me to call you a racial slur like the "n" word or worse, OK! I get a lot of requests to call myself a white slut whore ...and much worse..and I'm fine with that. Everyone in the scene knows and agrees beforehand that this is a roleplay and fantasy and nothing more than that. It doesn't bother me at all and I don't get off on it. But I do get off on the $$$ I make off doing it and I charge a lot to do it. Afterwards I always smile and thank them for the roleplay and I'm thanked in return. If I don't feel respect in the end then I don't keep that customer around.
I'm not into making clips of it etc..it just a roleplay request for me and I'm damn good at it. If it makes my customer happy, fine by me.
There are lots of things I refuse to soon cam like underage roleplay, rape, blood, bestially.. Lots of stuff.
To me, racial roleplay is pretty benign in a larger universe of camming.
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Re: Is making racial humiliation racist?
I have a few regulars who love to be racially humiliated. Often it's in combination with sph (these are always asian guys???!!!). The first time i got a request like this i was horrified, he insisted he was majorly into it and just really wanted someone to indulge his fetish. I actually messaged him after and said I'm so sorry i feel awful cause even though you asked for this it's not how i think or would ever speak in 'real life' it just feels so wrong on every level and i hoped he was ok. He replied saying it was the best roleplay he'd ever had and he was really grateful. He's still a reg years later. I get black guys who love to hear me worship their bbc and tell them how much better it is than pathetic white men, and white guys who love to hear about being cuckolded by bbc. To me it's all complete fantasy and so long as they're really happy with what they're asking for and I get $$$ then all's good!
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Re: Is making racial humiliation racist?
I'll start with saying I'm white.
Very early in my phone sex career, I had a guy call me who was black and who wanted me to call him all sorts of horrible racial slurs that I'd never even said out loud before. He also wanted me to peg him with my "white power cock" and my "big Aryan dick". I couldn't bring myself to say these things, so I just sort of mumbled "yeah, that's right" after he said these things. The call was short and I couldn't tell he wasn't satisfied.
I brought it up with my therapist at my next appointment and I realized how similar it was to a woman who wants to be called a slut/whore/bitch/cum rag or whatever and who has rape fantasies. I'm a feminist and I completely support women who have those kinds of fantasies. To a certain extent, I have them myself. I think it's kind of liberating, in fact, to be able to fantasize about whatever you want, without worrying that it makes you a bad feminist, or regressive. It made me feel bad for making a decision for him, essentially decreeing that his fantasy was too racist and preventing him from enjoying it. I felt guilty and vowed to do better if he called back.
Eventually, he called me back on another one of my characters. I recognized him immediately and jumped right in to what he wanted. He was obviously super pleased and left me glowing feedback. He became a regular for many months and always left excellent feedback.
Now, I've become fairly comfortable doing this type of race play. I'm also ok with indulging all the white cucks who want me to talk about how much better BBC is. However, I still feel like I can't indulge white guys who want to say disgusting things about women or men of other races. I feel like those guys are racist for real and really do think that white men are just the pinnacle of humanity, even when they themselves are paunchy, bald guys who want me to watch them jerk off in the midst of their filthy homes.
So, all that to say, I feel like if someone wants to be degraded for their race, or degrade me for mine (which does happen sometimes), that's ok, because we are both there and have consented. But I hate bringing other people into the fantasy only so we can refer to them using horrible racial slurs and talk about how worthless they are. I'm still conflicted about it all. Should I indulge every racial fantasy? Or should I trust my gut on the fact that these guys really are white supremacists and continue denying them what they want?
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Re: Is making racial humiliation racist?
I am white and while I don't domme I do do raceplay. I am also liberal and a feminist. My friends often make fun of how Pc I am, I don't say certain words when I sing along to rap songs. I used to refuse these shows, then I realized that as a white woman being paid to fulfill a fantasy I don't get to pc it into everyday life. I obviously have my limits and if my gut tells me it is from an ugly place I end it. To this day I still cannot admit to people who don't cam that I do it but I do because I understand that it is a fetish that many non white men enjoy and I give my all when they ask. It is not my place as a white woman to tell them what makes their dick hard. I still always break character at the end and talk to them most are super sweet men and appreciate the fantasy
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Re: Is making racial humiliation racist?
I'm glad this was posted. I have no idea about whats going on on twitter about this but I think this is a personal decision for camgirls of any race to decide. raceplay does come in many shades and varieties. This is not just a white woman black man thing. No shade just me being realistic but any girl that participates in online racist play does run the risk of possibly getting outed as a racist and yes it would be taken out of context, and its not fair, and that's not who you really are, and all that but your putting urself at risk of being seen that way. That is entirely your decision to make I personally do not have any issue with girls that partake in racist play (which is different than raceplay) I am a biracial woman (half white half black) but most the guys online see me as being white... I get a lot of raceplay stuff which I love and would do all day if that's the only traffic I had, but where I draw the line is when they are asking for me to talk down to them saying the n word (which I wont do in my personal life so I'm def. not doing it online) or any other racial slur..... I will talk about how much I love ur bbc all day baby but painting myself as a racist no baby I cant do it.... But I do wonder if its wrong that when my sissy boys come through and want to be called a homophobic slur, I do so in good fun.... do u think that's hypocritical girls?
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Re: Is making racial humiliation racist?
I've seen this trend growing along with racism in politics.
More it is done, more acceptable it is to be racist & openly discriminate against all minorities.
There are men who want me to call myself a pig & oink like a pig in exclusive because I am a bbw. I won't. There are many bbw's who will take that money all day long. In no way can I equate the outrage I feel then to what any POC has experienced.
Surely there is a better way to make money than to feed into any of it & focus on those avenues & making money. And that is the choice I make for myself rather than help Trump & his fans make this a more hostile world.
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Re: Is making racial humiliation racist?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sam38g
I've seen this trend growing along with racism in politics.
More it is done, more acceptable it is to be racist & openly discriminate against all minorities.
There are men who want me to call myself a pig & oink like a pig in exclusive because I am a bbw. I won't. There are many bbw's who will take that money all day long. In no way can I equate the outrage I feel then to what any POC has experienced.
Surely there is a better way to make money than to feed into any of it & focus on those avenues & making money. And that is the choice I make for myself rather than help Trump & his fans make this a more hostile world.
just to add a thought in agreement to this as a black person with another background/culture who immigrated to america. it is very concerning to me when men (and 99% of the time it is white men asking me) to be super degrading to myself and allow them legit call me terms from slavery times, not just the n word but a slew of other words too.
its super icky and creepy to me, if a man (especially a white male) has to call me racial slurs to ejaculate there is a problem there. i am not inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt, and i have way too much pride allow someone to get off on being racist towards me. some things arent worth the money...
if i was doing race play, i would NEVER want people to find out because no matter the amount of money it just doesnt look good to have internet archives of white men calling me the nword to get off and me going along with it.
it isn't really about white men talking about/enjoying my blackness, its about them using super degrading words as a way to get arousal. at some point its just straight up racist and as a daughter of a black immigrant to this country, i can't feed into that.