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This case is heartbreaking and that jury was a disgrace. I hope Cyntoia gets a retrial, she deserves to be free.
It's fucked up what happened.
And just goes to show the system can be a complete failure. How was a teenager able to ditch school and prostitute herself and no one notice or help?
Do I think she should have been punished for murking someone - yes but not for life. She was a product of her environment (at the time most likely some sort of PTSD), dude who picked her up was a straight up pedophile, and kids who are impulsive & impressionable/commit crimes/but can be rehabilitated should not be locked up for life......
She could have left him there to rot but she didn't - she called 911 after it happened. Had she not made the call to law enforcement, it could have been possible the dudes murder would have went unsolved.
The police also violated her rights and interrogated her without an adult present. Not only was she a child but she was also developmentally disabled and could not consent to having her miranda rights waived. This "evidence" should have been inadmisable but wasn't. She was poor and had a shitty court appointed lawyer.
No one locked up the dealer who sold/supplied her with drugs nor did anyone punish the pedophile who were her clients. Her pimp end up getting murked by some hood dudes.
Sad but this young lady has been fucked over by society in so many ways......
Wow, that is awful! The fact that she was a child sex trafficking victim is bad enough. She was a scared, 16 year old kid who was abused and forced into prostitution. The pedophile client, I read that she killed in self-defense. He had guns in his house. I'm guessing that the gun that she used was his. She had reason to believe that he was going to shoot her so she shot him. I also read that she has a mental disability. It's sad that a victim gets punished.
She was "bought" from the pimp at some point as well by a wealthy real estate agent, I am not sure if it is the man she shot or not... because the details in this case are a bit blurry... and much of what is posted online is a twisted account of the truth. I DID watch an interview of her in her own words say she shot the man because she thought he was reaching for a gun.
Unfortunately, this case was tried nearly a decade ago and while sexd trafficking was a huge problem them, it was not in the radar of public opinion. Just a personal anecdote, I did a presentation on human trafficking in college about 8 years ago and my professor gave me a lower grade because the topic was not "an important political or social problem" so....
While we see now what we know is a child victim, what the (in)justice system saw at the time was a minority teen hooker with a drug problem. Hopefully all of the public pressure and celebrities bringing this case to light she will get a chance to have the case reheard, or her sentence communed.
I think the particular facts of the case are what did her in.
The guy picked her up when she was walking the street looking for a date in a known prostitution pickup zone. She got into his car on her own. The whole time she was walking the street and getting into his car, she already had a gun on her, which argues against the notion that anyone was forcing her to do anything she didn't want to do.
When she got to his house, she got in bed with him and later shot him dead. She made different claims as to what happened, but the guy was shot in the back of the head with his hands under his head on the pillow, like he had been resting after he got off.
After she shot him in the back of the head, did she call the police for help? Nope. Instead she stole his pants (with wallet), several firearms and his truck and drove away to meet up with someone else. Keep in mind too that she was already armed before this happened AND she was completely by herself at the scene of the crime, all of which makes her claims about being forced unlikely.
Apparently she also has a juvenile arrest record, which lent credence to the notion that this was not an isolated incident.
Now look, this girl had a shitty childhood for sure. But at some point, we are responsible for our own actions. She was 16, not 6, and she killed a defenseless man lying in bed in cold blood and then took a bunch of his shit. The "someone else made me do it" defense doesn't hold water when you are there by yourself, armed, and with infinite other choices. And if we start allowing the "shitty childhood" defense, we might as well let every rapist, murderer and other serious felon back on the street. Her life story is tragic, but it doesn't excuse what she did here IMHO.
I think that this Newsweek article provides a more balanced picture of what happened:
http://www.newsweek.com/cyntoia-brow...was-sex-718766
At 16 Kids cannot consent to sex so HE was in the wrong for picking up a) "prostitutes" which is illegal in all states but Nevada b) picking up what clearly looked like a young teen so PEDOPHILIA is also illegal
That dude was not a "defenseless man" (maybe at the moment before/after being shot) but he was a PREDATOR with a gun collection. She was a teen with PTSD forced to make money for a pimp who psychologically, physically, sexually abused her. This pimp also set her up to be raped by her clients so when she was alone with this predator she thought he might do the same to her. And she actually did call for help but not immediately afterwards
This young woman needed structure and a healthy environment. She rarely experienced that. She wasn't diagnosed as a sociopath (people who harm with no remorse), she wasn't a serial killer, etc. She is the model inmate there and even took college law courses while in prison. so therefore she should have been rehabilitated and/or put into a lock-down facility for teens. She should not be locked up for life with adults.
Kids brains aren't fully developed until age 25. And until 18 (unless they are emancipated) their guardians/parents are responsible for them.
Until age 25 kids/adult kids (18-25) are impulsive and don't think through consequences. I can't imagine being imprisoned for life for something I did at 16.
Meanwhile the kid rich kids like Ethan Couch who got drunk and plowed through good samaritans killing 4 and injuring numerous other got off with 2 years and some probation. Neither he nor his family had any remorse for the people killed/injured.
The criminal justice system is flawed - rich can buy freedom, buy judges/juries while the poor cannot and kids who show remorse/rehabilitation should not be locked up for life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posttr...tress_disorder causes people to act in ways they normally wouldn't. If she hadn't been coerced by that pimp to engage in dangerous behavior that affected her mentally/given her a gun she wasn't trained to use, and if the pedophile trolling for "prostitutes" hadn't picked her then she would not have committed that crime. These are all things that no teenager should experience.
*I want to make it clear I don't agree with murdering someone (unless it's true self defense). Even though that dude was a pedophile and predator I don't think he deserved to die. He should have been in a treatment facility or prison somewhere.
And you were just in that thread ranting and raving against an adult of consenting age being "coerced" by what you assumed was a husband "pimping" his wife but here is a teen who cannot consent to sex being forced by a real thug, a real pimp and you think this is okay?
I wonder how you would behave at 16 if you had no guidance and had been raped several times/forced to sell yourself to random strange people?
Miss, that was an awfully brave pimp if he was truly coercing a girl who carried a loaded gun in her purse. ;)
Let's leave the other thread where it is, unless we need to keep exploring why you continued to defend the deceiving husband who is all too clearly trying to trick his wife into never having a child. I don't know why that doesn't bother you more, but anyway...
As far as all of the rest of that, the problem that this girl flat out executed a stranger in cold blood. Regardless of whatever she went through that made her capable of doing that, or the fact that he was picking up a minor (which he may or may not have known depending on how she looked), the simple fact is that someone who can do that once could easily do so again. Also important was the premeditation aspect - she found herself a John, went to his place with him, got into bed with him, waited until he was truly defenseless and had his back turned, and then just put him down. And when it was all over, she had the presence of mind to take his cash, his guns and his car, so clearly she wasn't falling apart.
Now if she had done all of that to the pimp, then maybe a jury and judge might have looked at her with more sympathy. But to target some stranger who never did anything to you and then to kill him so that you can take his stuff - that's cold, calculated and shows little regard for human life. I can't blame a judge for not wanting to take the risk of putting someone who could do something like that back on the street.
^the pimp gave her the gun for her work. She didn't carry it around 24/7.
This wasn't 5 star escorting with respectable clients who contribute to society, this was bottom of the barrel streetwalking and that sh*t is dangerous for adults let alone a kid to be out there like that.
And yes should could have killed the pimp who enslaved her but if you know anything about battered women syndrome, domestic abuse, these people are mentally controlling and envoke fear.
The difference in the other thread was that woman was a grown adult. This young lady in this story was a CHILD under the age of 18. Kids can't consent to many of the things adults do. They can't sign contracts, they cant smoke cigarettes, they can't consent to sex with grown adults, etc.
I have never been in the escorting or streetwalking scene but I know guys who "managed" women who did and there is always that risk that a client could murk the woman. It's a known fact that sex workers are targeted by predators. If she was suffering from untreated PTSD and had a gun she wasn't trained to use, it is very likely she had a sudden reaction and possibly shot him on accident.
Her taking the money - again - you've never been pimped but obviously if you come back with no money you get your ass beat. THAT's probably why she took the money from him.
She was also diagnosed with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome so that coupled with her sexual abuse dangerous street lifestyle and immaturity affected her rational decision making
I know clients can be killed by the escort or "pr*stitute" but usually it is the client doing the scamming, beating, killing, etc
I'm not saying killing was justified but that stranger was a Rapist and PEDOPHILE - how would you react to a dude picking up your underage family members for sex???? At the least you'd have someone beat his ass.
And according to your logic that Ethan Couch dude should have been locked up for life. He killed not 1 but 4 people and injured other with no remorse. With the availability of liquor and his enabling parents it's highly likely he would do that again. He was even caught on film after the deaths he caused getting drunk.
So how do you explain how a pampered teen Ethan Couch murdered 4 people (Good Samaritans) and seriously injuring multiple others, showed no remorse, and getting a slap on the wrist??? But this girl gets life in prison?
And your theory that "someone who can do that once could easily do so again" does not apply to her situation. She was not a serial killer and she did not commit any crimes while in prison. Futher showing that she should not be in adult prison for life for a crime she made as an impressionable, abused teen and should have been in a locked down detention center for teens (aka jail for teens) then rehabilitated.
A grown ass adult committing this crime should be locked up for life but a kid - no
Even the guy who advocated for prosecuting/revoking her appeals (ironically her jailhouse professor) said he had regretted his decision once he got to know her
Of course she's a model prisoner - she's been on a never ending quest to get her conviction overturned during the last 10 years. She's had an appeal, a documentary and has otherwise been seeking as much publicity as she can get. Being a bad prisoner would hurt her chances of ever getting out.
As far as all the rest, it's all beside the point. She executed a man in cold blood and she was old enough to know right from wrong. The jury did not buy her story about self defense and frankly nobody with a lick of sense would, not with the way they found his body with his hands under his head. In fact, one prevailing theory was that the guy was actually sleeping when she executed him. Do you know how few human beings can actually get themselves to do something like that? Yet not only did she do it, but then she had the presence of mind to collect his cash, guns and truck and then dump the truck in a Walmart parking lot. If she got away with that first one, does anyone believe that he would have been the last? Because I don't, not after reading how all of this went down (editing out her BS self defense argument of course).
Ethan Couch has nothing to do with this either - two wrongs don't make a right.
As far as her being a minor, she was old enough and had enough composure to stroll that hooker lane and then negotiate $150 price with him for sex. I'm not excusing his role, but we don't even know if he knew her age or whether she was pimped, but we do know that she was out there offering herself up. So now should we sanction cold blooded murder for every guy who picks up a street walker?
And OK, if we start using bad childhoods as an excuse for murder, we might as well just open the doors on all the super max prisons right now, because there are very few murderers who do not have a similarly sad tale to tell.
Honestly, I hope she never gets out, because I don't buy her redemption act for a second. It really sucks that she's had such a horrible life, but she showed her true nature when she coldly executed a helpless man, who's biggest crime was accepting an offer of sex for cash that she freely made, solely for the purpose of taking his stuff. Everything else is just irrelevant noise.
^^^ stupid platitudes like two wrongs don't make a right is the easiest way to ignore the problem of systemic injustice that sex workers deal with. Cyntoia Brown is a classic example of how the justice system treats sw's. What about Alisha Walker? Who was improsoned for murder for defending herself against a man with a history of violence against sex workers when he pulled a knife on her because she would not consent to unprotected sex!!! What about her safety, her freedom, her rights!??! http://www.thefader.com/2017/02/16/a...murder-support
There are too many examples! This is a terrible problem.
You've obviously never lived a street life nor ever been to prison. Being in a hard prison for a decade and not having any fights when inmate thugs test you is no small feat. They know you are trying to get out and will provoke you to fuck up your chances.
Also a reason she is the model prisoner is because she has structure, that she never got while she was a kid.
A reason she stole his belongings after the crime was to bring back cash/valuable for the pimp. You do know real pimps will beat your ass if you come back from a client empty handed right?
And you are taking what I said to the extreme.
If read my prior posts, I said 'children who can be rehabilitated do not deserve to go to adult prison for life for crimes they commit while underage" . I never said bad childhood was an excuse - I said in this case it explains why she did what she did vs a cold blooded psychopaths. Even though this man was a rapist and pedophile, I never said murdering him was okay/should be sanctioned (please read my prior posts). It should be punishable but (non-psychopathic) CHILDREN do not need to be punished for their entire lives for something they didn't have the capacity to think through before acting.
Now adults have that capacity and if Cyntoia was 18 at that time then yes I would think she should accept adult prison term.
Now if she was a serial killer sociopath then yes because she cannot be rehabilitated. If she were a true psychopath she would have disrupted in prison but she has not.
And Ethan Couch has a lot to do with this. You can't explain why an unremorseful teen who murdered 4 good samaritans gets probation while an abused sex-trafficked teen who murdered gets life? Your rationale makes no sense. Because according to your rationale that guy should have life in prison, correct?
So you are advocating for underage teenage sex workers "offering themselves up" now?
You seem to be forgetting that 10 years ago, this was a child.
You are also ignoring the fact that
1. Children cannot consent to sex with adults and therefore cannot consent to acts of "prostitution"
2. Cyntoia obtained her associated degree and is a mentor for other female prisoners. This is evidence that she turning her life around not some psychopath incapable of rehabilitation. If she were a true psychopath no one would allow her to mentor and she definitely would have started/been a part of disruption during those 10 long years.
3. The law has change where she was imprisoned so juveniles can no longer be sentenced to life without parole.
4. Her law teacher regretted contributing to her sentence
The National Sexual Assault hotline: 800-656-4673
I'm sorry but I don't understand how A CHILD can get life in prison. A child should be cared for, nurtured, and given a chance AT REHABILITATION, not being used as an instrument to fund our prison-industrial complex. This is appalling.
A few more facts that came up when I dug around a bit:
1. She admitted to the police that she lied to him about her age.
2. She passed a note to another inmate in prison saying that she killed him because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone.
3. When the police arrested her at the residence that she shared with "Cut-throat", she was yelling that it was all her and that her boyfriend had nothing to do with it. They arrested him too, but ultimately had to cut him loose as they couldn't find anything to charge him with. It seems that they viewed him more as a drug addled moron than anything else.
Remember that the jury had all of these facts during the trial, while we are just getting is spun pieces from the press. The jury not only found her guilty, but also were the ones to sentence her to life, despite every effort by the defense to make her look young and helpless during trial (braided pigtails included). That's because what they saw was a girl who:
- Lured a John in by walking a prostitution pickup zone, the whole time carrying a gun;
- Lied about her age to get the John to take her home;;
- Got into bed with him and then waited for the chance to execute him, all of which showed signs of clear premeditation;
- Took his cash, his guns and his car; and
- Clearly lied about what happened, showing no remorse at all for killing a helpless man.
To them she was clearly a cold blooded killer, plain and simple.
Now can she be rehabilitated? Normally I would say yes, but a girl who planned the killing/robbery of someone because she wanted to know how it felt to kill someone? I'm not so convinced and obviously neither was the jury.
The biggest problem to me is that she has never stopped lying and continues to show no remorse at all. Instead, she's used these last ten years to perfect her lies and to keep trying to re-write history in the court of public opinion. What's more, she's obviously brilliant at it. Her professor in jail said that she was his brightest student and seeing everything she has accomplished, it is hard to disagree (which by the way makes diminished capacity a nonsense defense).
Sorry, I'm betting that this girl is a psychopath. I'm not in favor of throwing young kids away forever either, but the facts of this case are so disturbing that I am just not convinced that she won't kill again if given the chance.
Wow. I should have done more research on the case before commenting. Sounds pretty disturbing.
^^^ there is no way to know it was premeditated. Prisoners lie to other prisoners almost as much as customers lie to strippers, because they're bored, feel powerless and want some of their power back etc...
1. She obviously looked like a baby faced teen. Any young girl tells you they are 18-19 you ask LET ME SEE YOUR ID. It's not that hard. That's a piss poor excuse to fawk an underaged teen because they lied, hell everybody lies including you. You ask for proof so you don't get charged with statutory rape
2. Again teens say dumb shit. I can think of all the dumb ass shit I said at 15-16 that I would Never say now. You have no clue of prison culture....you act like a "hard" badass so people will not anal rape you in the shower.
3. Of course. She was going to protect her pimp thats what he trained her to do. Just because he wasn't an accessory to that incident doesn't mean that he didn't negatively influence her in a way that led her to commit such an act. He provided her with drugs and put her in situations where she would later be raped by older men (some including the pimp were adults) which caused her to be reactive/paranoid common of PTSD and Rape victims. ANY real pimp is going to tell you don't come back empty handed. She even said he told her she was "slacking" putting the pressure on her to make sure she brought back money for him.
Her sole purpose for Cut Throat was to make him money and be a human blow up doll.
The jury did not have all the evidence and her law professor said this as well and in fact they made several errors including violating her rights by interviewing her without an adult present, etc.
And you still have failed to answer the question.....why is cyntoia sentenced to life with no parole when teens like Ethan Couch (illegal underage drinking, drunk driving, killed 4 good samaritans) walking around scott-free???
I personally don't think she is a psychopath, more like a misguided teen caught up in street life and had a huge error in judgement. I don't believe she would kill again (if she stayed in a structured environment, stayed off drugs and out of the street where trouble would find her) because
1) she never had any prior felonies
2) she never committed any acts of violence while in prison
This is disturbing that you would condone acts of pedophilia ... unless you are mentally challenged then you need to learn how to determine a young woman/ teen's age before fucking - there is no excuse
No you're not. You are only in favor of throwing away certain types of young kids. The types that are females and "offer themselves up" and "stroll hooker lane" --- in your words.
You STILL have not explained how a non-remorseful psychopath teens like Ethan Couch can kill not one but 4 good samaritans/cause another permanant brain damage plus wheelchair confinement, high risk of future DUI (was caught on film getting drunk) and was allowed to walk away back into society with only probation?
And besides, The law where she is imprisoned now says that teens/juveniles cannot be imprisoned to life without parole. Regardless of whatever punishment she deserves (and served), she should have parole after 10 or so years.
It's not your fault Zero. This information took a lot of sifting to find because the mainstream media is only posting hyped one-sided stories about her. It's a really compelling story if you ignore the inconvenient facts and focus on the theory that she is a young girl who was first mistreated by a series of men and then by the system. The fact that she is still fairly young and photogenic doesn't hurt.
But unfortunately for her, the jury had much more information than we are getting and so too did the appeal judge (yes, she also lost an appeal where she got to tell her story). Her only real option right now is a probably pardon from the Governor, but given the facts of the case, I sincerely doubt that his staff is going to recommend it.
There are 3 sides to every story. Court systems are flawed. Judges and lawyers can be biased, can be bought, etc.
Often times "judges are forced to enforce mandatory sentences without consideration of ALL the factors relating to a child's age or circumstances".
Had she received treatment for sexual abuse, sex trafficking of minors/negative influence of a manipulative violent criminal pimp, and drug abuse, and had the guy who was shot/killed not trolled for sex from underage teens ---- I highly doubt this incident would have taken place.
It's easy to cast judgement when you are from the outside looking in.
Also, the law where she lives has changed and they no longer sentence children/underage teens to life without parole. There is a reason for that law change.
Murdering someone is disturbing. However so is pedophilia, sex trafficking teens, untreated rape trauma, teens handling guns they aren't trained to use, teens accessing illegal mind altering substances, and life without parole for teens especially ones who can be rehabilitated
Facts about Juvenile Life Without Parole
The majority of sentences to life without parole for youth have been imposed in states where judges are obligated to impose it as a mandatory sentence, without consideration of any factors relating to a child’s age or life circumstances.
More than 25% of people serving life without parole after being sentenced as children were convicted of felony murder or accomplice liability, meaning they were not the primary perpetrators of the crime, and may not have even been present at the time someone was killed.
The majority of youth sentenced to life without parole are concentrated in just five states: California, Florida, Louisiana, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.
Children sentence to life in prison without parole are often the most vulnerable members of our society. Nearly 80 percent of juvenile lifers reported witnessing violence in their homes; more than half (54.1%) witnessed weekly violence in their neighborhoods.
African American youth are sentenced to life without parole as children at a per capita rate that is 10 times that of White youth.
80 percent of girls and nearly half of all children sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole have been physically abused.
77 percent of girls and 20 percent of all youth lifers said they have been sexually abused.
Source http://fairsentencingofyouth.org/wha...ithout-parole/