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US ladies- the PRO ACT is headed to Congress (AB5 nationwide)
Hello, stripperweb amigos, I hope 2021 is treating you well. I haven't been around in a while as there wasn't much news to report on the AB5 front. Until today.
Since Biden won the presidency and democrats assumed control of the house and senate, I knew it was only a matter of time before the PRO act would come up for a vote. If you are unfamiliar, the PRO act is a smattering of pro-union provisions, one of which is the ABC test. This is Part 1 of a 3 pronged effort to outlaw independent contractors and freelancers in the United States.
Alas, the PRO act goes before the HOR on March 8th.
AFAIK, there are NO exemptions listed to the ABC test that was included in the PRO Act. That means dancers and cam models will be classified as employees, nationwide.
The bill is HR842 https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-...house-bill/842
In case you have forgotten, I'm in California with the whole AB5 fiasco, which hasn't even reached its full monstrous fruition due to the clubs closing up for COVID. You do not want this bill. Contact your representatives and urge them to vote no.
I will be back as more news comes through! Be well out there, wear your masks!
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Re: US ladies- the PRO ACT is headed to Congress (AB5 nationwide)
Update: The PRO Act passed the HOR today. Next, It heads to the Senate.The chatter I'm seeing is that it could die in the Senate but Biden wants to make it law anyway by executive order. Not uplifting. Stay tuned.
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Re: US ladies- the PRO ACT is headed to Congress (AB5 nationwide)
Yikes. I was already looking into looking into life after dancing. This is definitely accelerating things.
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Re: US ladies- the PRO ACT is headed to Congress (AB5 nationwide)
I srsly hope it dies. Im looking to only doing cam work part time and food/grocery delivery fully bc im sick of sw. Does that mean that both gig work is gonna be outlawed?
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Re: US ladies- the PRO ACT is headed to Congress (AB5 nationwide)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xxxGothBarbie
I srsly hope it dies. Im looking to only doing cam work part time and food/grocery delivery fully bc im sick of sw. Does that mean that both gig work is gonna be outlawed?
In CA, no. Prop 22 passed so the all those platforms (doordash, instacart, etc.) Are still using independent contractors. If the PRO act passed, I believe that uber/lyft , etc will once again get an exemption. So this is to say that I think food/grocery delivery is safe.
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Re: US ladies- the PRO ACT is headed to Congress (AB5 nationwide)
Dancers be classified as employees ok I get it cause half these brainless ego tripping managers made up hella rules just like employers whilst greedily collecting house fees n not contributing to benefits. Also probably want to make sure they paying taxes n whatnot.
Cammodels though?
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Re: US ladies- the PRO ACT is headed to Congress (AB5 nationwide)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miss.a.p1600
Dancers be classified as employees ok I get it cause half these brainless ego tripping managers made up hella rules just like employers whilst greedily collecting house fees n not contributing to benefits. Also probably want to make sure they paying taxes n whatnot.
Cammodels though?
We already pay taxes. Camming is legit independent contractor work. So I think we could pass the ABC tests. Strip clubs literally treat us like employees, so they probably wouldn’t pass the independent contractor test.
The dems couldn’t even get the $15 minimum wage passed and THEY ARE IN control. Corporate dems aren’t going to vote this into law. It’s all political theater, so they can say they look like they are fighting for the working man. The dems are all about looking like they are trying, but don’t actually do anything. They would have to get this passed with Republicans support-Republicans won’t vote on this. I doubt it will pass.https://youtu.be/VLsPfv4HCu0
God can we catch a fucking break and just be left alone.
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Re: US ladies- the PRO ACT is headed to Congress (AB5 nationwide)
So the problem is with the ABC test. B basically says that you have to be offering an unique trade separate from what a business specializes in. Thus how we become employees. So fundamentally the goal is to change that on the federal level, so the ABC test either won't apply or the wording is clarified to help freelancers who offer specialized services within a market.
This will pass in some version. This is very important legislation for a number of people. If it doesn't pass there will be an executive order.
We need to make allies, and unfortunately not gig workers. There are so many instances of contractor abuse by Amazon, Uber and other delivery services, and there are people who have spent a lot of money going against them. We really need to be looking at writers, actors, influencers, twitch creators, youtube creators, producers, independent journalists. Lucky for us they have way more influence then majority of sex workers. Be careful of anyone's intentions on this matter, there are a lot of random people on the same battle as us. Not all are concerned with our success, or bodily anatomy.
I have little faith that we have many cheerleaders in politics, but the bright spot is that there are other industries (as shown in California) who are as invested as we are and able to put on a more united public front.
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Re: US ladies- the PRO ACT is headed to Congress (AB5 nationwide)
I understand it’s intent is to help people from being abused, but just making it illegal for anyone to be an independent contractor will have unintended negative consequences. Agh. This shit is so exhausting. When will it go for a vote?
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Re: US ladies- the PRO ACT is headed to Congress (AB5 nationwide)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
moneybags
I understand it’s intent is to help people from being abused, but just making it illegal for anyone to be an independent contractor will have unintended negative consequences. Agh. This shit is so exhausting. When will it go for a vote?
Undecided and dependent. The bigger goal is modifying the filibuster. It cannot be passed if it requires 60. So there is time to work on the content at least. If it dies it shall return
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Re: US ladies- the PRO ACT is headed to Congress (AB5 nationwide)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kamiliam
Undecided and dependent. The bigger goal is modifying the filibuster. It cannot be passed if it requires 60. So there is time to work on the content at least. If it dies it shall return
Thats what I thought. What exactly is the filibuster? I know it’s a tactic to stall the bill. The dems want to get rid of it. We’ll see what happens. I just wanna cry. I need stability and this is stressful. I’ll just try to be calm and keep on camming. This is part of adult work. We are constantly under threats of legal abuse, so it’s not like this is anything new for me personally. It may or may not get passed. I’ll be doing EFT tapping for anxiety everyday.
https://www.npr.org/2021/03/09/97525...nizing-efforts
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Re: US ladies- the PRO ACT is headed to Congress (AB5 nationwide)
I found the voter roll, just in case anyone wanted to see which one of their reps voted for this. https://clerk.house.gov/evs/2021/roll070.xml
It appears 5 republicans voted Yea.
@Miss A.P. Cam models, yes. For now. There are NO exemptions in the PRO ACT. There were some exemptions built in AB5, for people such as attorneys but there are NONE in the PRO ACT. In CA, for the first 8 months or so so that AB5 was here, cam models were employees which was, again, a pain in the ass. We have an old thread in the camming connection section that discussed it, I'll dig it up if anyone wants it.
Nevertheless, CA cam girls won their exemption when the uproar was loud enough and the union that previously wanted AB5 for cam girls backed down.
We don't have anyone to represent dancers. :(
@moneybags
A filibuster, put simply, is "talking a bill to death". Literally.
It's when a politician goes to the podium to speak on a bill and then doesn't stop until everybody gives up. Due to the fact that a bill can't be voted on until everyone is done speaking. I'm gonna provide an example of the most famous filibuster in recent history: When Wendy Davis spoke for 13 hours to keep abortion clinics open in texas.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...on-bill-speech
Naturally, people want to get rid of the filibuster so they can ram bills through without any check of power. Note the irony that Wendy Davis is a democrat and abortion rights are a democrat endeavor. But NOW, when it comes to pleasing their union donors, they want to get rid of the filibuster. Lol these clowns in politics are despicable.
The Senate has not scheduled a vote on the PRO ACT at this time.
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Re: US ladies- the PRO ACT is headed to Congress (AB5 nationwide)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Seatortuga
I found the voter roll, just in case anyone wanted to see which one of their reps voted for this.
https://clerk.house.gov/evs/2021/roll070.xml
It appears 5 republicans voted Yea.
@Miss A.P. Cam models, yes. For now. There are NO exemptions in the PRO ACT. There were some exemptions built in AB5, for people such as attorneys but there are NONE in the PRO ACT. In CA, for the first 8 months or so so that AB5 was here, cam models were employees which was, again, a pain in the ass. We have an old thread in the camming connection section that discussed it, I'll dig it up if anyone wants it.
Nevertheless, CA cam girls won their exemption when the uproar was loud enough and the union that previously wanted AB5 for cam girls backed down.
We don't have anyone to represent dancers. :(
@moneybags
A filibuster, put simply, is "talking a bill to death". Literally.
It's when a politician goes to the podium to speak on a bill and then doesn't stop until everybody gives up. Due to the fact that a bill can't be voted on until everyone is done speaking. I'm gonna provide an example of the most famous filibuster in recent history: When Wendy Davis spoke for 13 hours to keep abortion clinics open in texas.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...on-bill-speech
Naturally, people want to get rid of the filibuster so they can ram bills through without any check of power. Note the irony that Wendy Davis is a democrat and abortion rights are a democrat endeavor. But NOW, when it comes to pleasing their union donors, they want to get rid of the filibuster. Lol these clowns in politics are despicable.
The Senate has not scheduled a vote on the PRO ACT at this time.
re the filibuster, actually they are attempting to go back to the talking filibuster. Presently they just have to declare that it will be filibustered and the item is tabled so they can conduct other business. The idea is that if the do have to talk the whole time eventually those who want the filibuster will want to be rid of it completely
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Re: US ladies- the PRO ACT is headed to Congress (AB5 nationwide)
Strip clubs would use the employee option to exploit the dancers. It has good intentions but way too many unscrupulous managers that would take all your vip room money. I saw all the Cali girls working in Vegas because of that and heard all the stories.
Did this happen with the webcam sites? I feel like they basically operated the same way except the girls had to just keep track of their hours. Also, was anyone paid a wage under the employee system? When that happened in California it was a rude awakening. This would change things for so many people in this country and it’s strange to think they would encourage a law like this while we are still getting through a horrible pandemic.
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Re: US ladies- the PRO ACT is headed to Congress (AB5 nationwide)
@Jasmine
I can only speak for MY experience at MY club, furthermore, we only got to be open for 3 months before COVID shut us down. Meaning, the full extent of the new employee sh*t wasn't implemented yet.
We did not have VIP rooms, simply dances at my clubs. (It was all nude, thus no alcohol, so selling a champagne room just wasn't an option.)
My bones of contention with making dancers employees are mainly 2 things: quotas and schedules.
Even if a club does not outright say you must do x number of dances each shift to keep your job, it's a de facto quota because that hourly wage comes from somewhere. (Remember some cali clubs do not have alcohol sales so the club makes its money from YOU.) It's just an economic reality. I don't care what the dancer schmunions say otherwise. That means you are either pressured to dance for any predatory flea bag who strolls into the club, OR worse, the club straight up requires it because you're an employee now. Employees at burger king can't decline to serve abusive customers, no?
Schedules,which are obvious but I'm going to reaffirm it, they can't have a whole bunch of girls on the club making hourly and not doing dances. This really hurts girls who want day-mid shifts (combined with the quotas mentioned above). Tbh it affects girls on all shifts because my club in LA had a lot of girls who prefer night shifts and my club was starting to urge girls to work day shift (even going as far as saying as you must prove yourself on day shift before being allowed on night shift. This did not exist pre AB5).
Anyhow. I was a day shift girl and myself and other day shift girls were very stressed out about them eliminating day shift altogether due to being unprofitable. That would have eliminated many jobs.
As far as unscrupulous managers, dear G*d I hope that they couldn't be that crazy. However, there is nothing preventing them from giving you nothing more than minimum wage (tips of course they should never ever touch, but guess what, I heard some clubs still were taking tips)
I believe if the schmunions cared about us, they would have fought to get alcohol sales in our clubs, thus increasing our business and thus, our earning potential. Why didn't they do that first, a real, tangible way to help us before just converting us to W2 with all these hijinks still here? Among other things they could have gotten for us. There are things in it for them to get you unionized, ladies. Please don't forget that. They cared more about ramming through this AB5 nonsense first, consequences be damned. I am not a schmunion hater, but if you expect me to pay a monthly due for you to *supposedly* help me, I better see some results.
So anyhow, my club was still *tolerable* up until we closed. They really tried to fight this and do the best the could, but the economic reality of W2 employees is just there.
I saw the horror stories on reddit and hear of girls having convoluted house fees, quotas, schedules, 1 girl I worked with left a club because they were straight up not even paying her a wage despite being W2. I can't blame girls for not getting attorneys, it's just too much drama. I appreciate the opinions of girls who think we can make it work but I don't see myself ever thinking this is a good thing for us.
I hope I laid out many neutral, astute reasons I am just not about this. I was checking up last night on the schmunion who pushed for this and lo and behold, I'm pretty sure they have dissolved (it appears they cared more about bullying others on twitter than helping us dancers) so now I'm even more salty about all this.
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Re: US ladies- the PRO ACT is headed to Congress (AB5 nationwide)
I'm really hoping this bill dies. What a slap in the face to us sex workers of America.
But in all reality, what are the odds this passes nationwide? I mean, look at Nevada. They have legal brothels even though literally everywhere else they are illegal/outlawed. I'm sure there'd be some kind of exception, especially in states like Oregon and Nevada, that allow clubs full nude with alcohol. No way in hell could they get away with paying us "$15 an hour" or a "minimum wage" and expect girls to go for it.
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Re: US ladies- the PRO ACT is headed to Congress (AB5 nationwide)
Yeah I hope it dies....it won’t just hurt sex workers. You wouldn’t want people to lose their jobs as independent contractors NOW! There’s no jobs! WTF are all these people going to go! There’s so many people that work as independent contractors. I’m telling you the politicians like to “act” like they are trying to help the working wo/man+, but that doesn’t mean they actually want to pass it. They bring stuff in legislation they know won’t
pass just to look like the good guys. The politicians are corrupt. We’ll see what happens.
I doubt SM would stop letting Americans models work. We’re too in demand from American men. The other work around is opening your own studio. Don’t worry until it actually passes. If it does there will be a loophole.
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Re: US ladies- the PRO ACT is headed to Congress (AB5 nationwide)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MisdermeanerJ
I'm really hoping this bill dies. What a slap in the face to us sex workers of America.
But in all reality, what are the odds this passes nationwide? I mean, look at Nevada. They have legal brothels even though literally everywhere else they are illegal/outlawed. I'm sure there'd be some kind of exception, especially in states like Oregon and Nevada, that allow clubs full nude with alcohol. No way in hell could they get away with paying us "$15 an hour" or a "minimum wage" and expect girls to go for it.
Me and you both. I'm sure this will go over well for the girls in the brothels, too. It's just daunting. There are freelancers in 600+ industries who are fighting this and being ignored because the unions are threatening to withhold donations if politicians don't comply. Corrupt as F
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Re: US ladies- the PRO ACT is headed to Congress (AB5 nationwide)
Once again I'm not really concerned with this anymore bc of how it basically got thrown out via gig workers. The masses mostly rely on gig economy now & during a pandemic, grocery delivery & other types of no contact type gigs are a must right now & possibly into the future. They can write all the bills they want but honestly not enough people are gonna support it. There will be too much of an outrage to pass it. Just my 2 cents.
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Re: US ladies- the PRO ACT is headed to Congress (AB5 nationwide)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xxxGothBarbie
Once again I'm not really concerned with this anymore bc of how it basically got thrown out via gig workers.
I wish we could have that much hope. I was really thinking AB5 would get thrown out, especially due to a pandemic where people need all the work they can get. Politicians in CA are not relenting. I cannot stress to you enough that the unions have threatened to pull their political donations and that is the end of the career for many of these politicians.
Just today, I was reading that big rig truckers are being shut out of CA because companies won't contract with them due to AB5. One of 600 other industries fighting this. Nobody is really winning. Not even people who have had some relief with the exemptions in AB2257.
Uber/Lyft/DD is not a good example imo because the gig platforms spent more money than any other prop in CA history to get their exemption.
I hate to be doom and gloom but just 'not caring' is how they slide these bills in. Esp. For us workers in the adult industry because we don't have anyone to really represent us.
What I really believe is going to happen is PRO ACT will pass and then many states (mostly the red ones) will enact laws for their states to carve out exemptions and the like. We will see a time where you can only be a 1099 dancer in certain areas.
Ladies, please keep caring, keep fighting the good fight, and keep writing/calling your representatives. You can remain anonymous.
@gothbarbie editing to add that I totally get what you're saying but the outrage is already there and nothing is happening. I check Twitter and the freelancer facebook group constantly and there's folks who haven't worked since the law went into effect as of Jan. 1. Some of them fled CA and are now terrified of the PRO ACT. Alls I'm saying is is that yeah, it's time to be afraid.
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Re: US ladies- the PRO ACT is headed to Congress (AB5 nationwide)
^^^It’s not about not caring, but as a marginalized person (group) i have to take care of myself first. It doesn’t serve me to focus on things I can’t control. I’m focusing on what I can control and solutions if it does get passed. If you have the energy and time more power to you, but not everyone can be an activist. More power to you if you have the energy to fight the establishment, but not everyone is in alignment to fight the powers that be. Rather than going down the rabbit hole, I’m calling my representative because it’s where I have the most power and just detaching from the outcome. I know I’m a survivor and I will figure it out. If you feel in alignment with fighting then you should honor that, but I don’t think that it makes me or anyone else wrong if we aren’t in alignment with going down the rabbit hole.
Call
https://9d4f6e00179f3c3b57f1-4eec535...2.21%20(1).pdf
Email https://www.votervoice.net/mobile/NR.../80047/respond
Or text Text Congress
Text NOONPRO to 50457 and share your opposition of the PRO Act to Congress. Don't wait, text today!
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Re: US ladies- the PRO ACT is headed to Congress (AB5 nationwide)
This law will give the government some new law to work with, but the Internal Revenue Code has long (like for a century) had the law to determine who is an employee and who is an independent contractor. The way most strip clubs operate, they could not pass the independent contractor test as it stands now. So what's the difference? Political theater, that's all. The drawbacks are like was written earlier, schedules and quotas. I did work at a club that would tell new dancers "there is no quota system here." But, any new dancer that did not do lots of dancers suddenly found herself assigned to day shift, or told she was not given any shifts. They had a "rule" that said dancers assigned to a shift got to work first, and then anyone not assigned who just showed up would get "up" if there were not enough girls to work for the crowd. So much for "no quotas."
Another club had a system that allowed you to keep more of what you sold based on the greater number of dances/rooms/merch you sold. So, if you did just $500, the club would take 60% of what you made, plus you had to pay for three "dancer drinks." That was their way of disguising the house fee. But, if you sold $1000 they would take just 40% plus the three dancer drinks. If you did over $1500, they would take 30% and waive the dancer drinks. No real quota, but they would not let you have too many shifts under $500 before you "got fired." No way that club could pass the existing IRS independent contractor test. Yet, they never got audited and we were all classified as independent contractors.
HTH
Z
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Re: US ladies- the PRO ACT is headed to Congress (AB5 nationwide)
99% of strip clubs would not pass an independent contractor test
Majority of them charge you to even set your pinky toe on a stage, force you to commit to shifts, as you mention vip quotas, etc.
Like no bitch I’m coming in when *I* chose, Your cut is coming AFTER I get mine and it best not be more than 15%, and fuck u n your quota!
Those dudes won’t give up their slick pimp status without a fight lol
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Re: US ladies- the PRO ACT is headed to Congress (AB5 nationwide)
I absolutely understand what y'all saying. I like how you call them slick pimps, lol. I've danced off and on for 14 years now in multiple states, so I've worked for plenty of scumbags.
@ Zofia, that kinda sounds like San Francisco, is that SF? AFAIK, they kept that system even after the employee switch. Personally, I've never worked at a club that had quotas or assigned you different shifts if you weren't earning x amount. As long as you paid house fee, you were good...but I haven't worked at many clubs that took a % cause I think that sh*t is whack.
@ Miss AP I definitely believe we need change in strip clubs. Sexual harassment, absurd house fees, treating us like employees is rampant in the industry but converting us to W2 is not going to change that. We need a different set of protections from the law.
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Re: US ladies- the PRO ACT is headed to Congress (AB5 nationwide)
^I agree.
I think the government (and probably some club owners) thinks adult entertainment such as dancers are too stupid and too litigious and too fraudulent to work for themselves hence “let’s show them - turn them into employees, tell them when to take breaks, put them on schedule, pay them minimum wages, declare n share their tips, etc”