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Need feedback from all the dancers out there
Ok guys, heres the deal. I'm looking to start a new club in Atlanta Georgia. I've got a few friends on the owner side of the business and from what I hear it sounds like they treat the dancers like shit. My thing is, yeah thats good for initial profits but the girls are what put asses in your chairs and pull the money in so I plan to do EVERYTHING I can without losing cash to treat the dancers right. Feel free to offer any suggestions, advice etc. from the dancer side of the business.
Thanks guys!
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Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
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Ok guys, heres the deal. I'm looking to start a new club in Atlanta Georgia. I've got a few friends on the owner side of the business and from what I hear it sounds like they treat the dancers like shit. My thing is, yeah thats good for initial profits but the girls are what put asses in your chairs and pull the money in so I plan to do EVERYTHING I can without losing cash to treat the dancers right. Feel free to offer any suggestions, advice etc. from the dancer side of the business.
Thanks guys!
would you mind telling me roughly how much $ is required to get the club going-I am trying to buy a club myself
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Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
Well anabolic, my advice is this. first thing find a location whos city codes promote the type of club you want and will put you in a location to provide a steady flow of patrons. Next get with a leasing agent in that location and see what the going rate is for either building a new place or leasing an old one. Then you can start to judge the price range. You'll also need to get with a lawyer or two in regards to the licenses, and a distribution agent if you plan to sell alchohol. Also you need to research the local clubs in your area and decide if you want to compete with their prices or just slide under what they charge for cover, drink, etc. Theres alot of number crunching to it and it's all really based on your location. As far as my planning, I'm looking at maybe throwing out 100-150k to start up a decent sized club that can sustain itself through the start up phase.
Hope that helped some, let me know if you need more info.
Oh, BTW, you can look into the city codes at
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Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
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Well anabolic, my advice is this. first thing find a location whos city codes promote the type of club you want and will put you in a location to provide a steady flow of patrons. Next get with a leasing agent in that location and see what the going rate is for either building a new place or leasing an old one. Then you can start to judge the price range. You'll also need to get with a lawyer or two in regards to the licenses, and a distribution agent if you plan to sell alchohol. Also you need to research the local clubs in your area and decide if you want to compete with their prices or just slide under what they charge for cover, drink, etc. Theres alot of number crunching to it and it's all really based on your location. As far as my planning, I'm looking at maybe throwing out 100-150k to start up a decent sized club that can sustain itself through the start up phase.
Hope that helped some, let me know if you need more info.
Oh, BTW, you can look into the city codes at
www.municode.com
I'm in Vegas and would like to buy an existing club-100k sounds doable
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Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
I have some ideas...I dunno if they are economically feasable but they are worth talkin about I think. email me at [email protected] and I will do what I can to help...I'm in Atlanta too we might be able to work out something together even...Im not interested in club ownership I am travelling for the next 2 weeks hit me up in email and I will shoot ya my cell #
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Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
Anabolic, not sure what the going rate is there in Vegas but some of the higher end pre-established clubs in Georgia are asking upwards of 1,000,000 +. Your best bet is more than likely to invest in a lease, with options if possible, and try to make a slow steady build into a powerhouse. That way you learn as you grow, only problem I can think of with that is you may not grow as fast as the patrons want you to, but I'm a firm believer in solid foundations. So basically do ALOT of research, find a good starting location, study the competition, and generally soak up all the info you can. The only things the world can never take from you are the things you've learned!
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Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
Mike,
Sounds like a plan to me bud, always looking for another ally. Right now I'm up in northern N.Y. so all my research is done through lawyers, the phone / net, and friends who owe favors. If you need to you can reach me at [email protected]
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Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
And I plan to Miss George, my main thing is trying to slide the girls some kind of benefits such as medical, dental etc., IF they want them. Possibly locating some type of college fund myself, the club, or the girls could promote / enroll in. All in all letting everyone who brings something to the table sit down and eat. I've had hands in other businesses and I know from experience you have to treat people right to keep them there and that's the only thing I'll have on the pre-established clubs. Those guys have been making money far too long and forgotten what keeps it rolling in, and it damn sure isn't the bouncers or cheap beer. I still need to look into the legal aspect of these ideas but I wanted feedback before I spent tons of time on research. Let me know what ya'll think!
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Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
Offering health insurance options and the like would be great, but the real thing that brings in the girls in earnings potential. Most dancers will put up with alot of bs if they know they can make good consistent money in your club (which is why so many clubowners/managers treat the girls so horribly). But the kind of girls every club wants, who are good entertainers with good work ethic, beauty, etc and will be loyal to your club look for things like managers who don't hit on them constantly and basicaly treat them like humans rather than ATMs, a well-run establishment that allows everyone to function and make money, and staff who do their jobs without alot of drama. That is hard to find. Again, the main thing that draws this type of staff is money, but if you recruit some newbies and train them properly, and foster a cooperative environment rather than a blood-sucking one, you won't have to offer such big bucks to lure top help from other clubs.
Once you're operational: Hold regular meetings where everyone voices their concerns. Make sure everyone knows they will all benefit by working together - when staff and dancers work together instead of against each other, everyone makes more money. Offer your manager a decent pay and bonus package based on sales/profits, and discourage dancers tipping managers. Also, one thing I noticed that seemed to work very well in alot of the better clubs I've worked - a standard house fee that is a bit higher than the norm, but includes all tips to DJ, housemom, bouncers, etc. It was kind of hard getting used to the idea of paying that high house fee, but it worked out better because it was split among all staffers who normally expect tips from dancers, so the final payout was a little less than what I'd normally pay, but all staffers were guaranteed a decent pay every night, and it drastically reduced the amount of 'favouritism' in the club, which led to a better working environment all around. The main theme is really to create an environment where your staff and dancers don't feel like they need to try to squeeze as much as they can from whomever they can, but instead work together in ways that benefit all.
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Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
Bridgette,
I'm actually toying with the idea of making bouncers, bartenders, and waitresses possibly full time employees. I'm sure the bouncers will go for it, the others I'm not too certain of. The way I look at it this alleviates the need for the staff to incessantly stick thier hand out to the dancers. This will all take some time to look into and keep in mind I'm 1000 miles away from my targetted research area so don't flame the piss out of me for any odd-ball ideas. I also plan to STRICTLY enforce rules against the whole " high milage " aspect of the business. This may hurt me at times in customers but that shit only ruins the business for dancers and owners! BTW had someone mention providing some type of reduced child care etc. via contracts with a care center, don't know if it would be possible or not, lemme know what ya think.
Thanks for the feedback!
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Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
Oh another thing. I plan to be on-site at all possible times for atleast the first 2 to 3 months so I can learn the minute details of everyones job there. I don't plan on investing tons of time and cash into this and then getting fucked and not kissed : P So the manager issue is out for the moment.
Thanks again.
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Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
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Offering health insurance options
Hold regular meetings where everyone voices their concerns. Make sure everyone knows they will all benefit by working together - when staff and dancers work together instead of against each other, everyone makes more money.
Offer your manager a decent pay and bonus package based on sales/profits, and discourage dancers tipping managers.
Excellant suggestions from Bridgette.
My favorite club had regular mandatory meetings and it really seemed to promote teamwork
Also some nice added bonuses for dancers would be a tanning bed and bathroom with a shower in the dressing room.
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Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
Tigerlilly, I know of a few people who sell beds. If room permits that's a damn good idea....probably a tax write off for me too. As for the showers, I could see where it would be convenient for the dancers but seems like that may be troublesome when you consider space, time away from the floor, arguments etc. BUT that would reduce the staggering dancer syndrome and allow the girls a break from the bullshit.
Give me more feedback people!
Thanks again
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Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
I also wouldn't worry about the health insurance thing. Maybe a discounted package or an agent that worked with your club would be nice, but beyond that you're just going to be putting out on something that girls don't really care about.
Tanning beds are awesome. You might want to have sign up sheets or rules about using them during the shift. Showers are good too. People aren't going to use them during the middle of their shift (nobody wants to re-do all that make up and hair) but it will make it easier on girls coming straight from the gym or their day job or whatever.
The club that I'm working at now is easily one of the best two or three clubs I've ever worked at. I'm not sure how the owner makes any money off it, but it's wonderful to work at. There are no house fees, just tip outs to the DJ, etc. Everyone is appreciative when you tip them, and kind and considerate when you need something. Dances are $15 and girls keep ten, but if it's slow they'll run ten dollar specials where they don't get a cut at all, they're just keeping us making money and happy. They undersell the other clubs in our area (everywhere else dances are 20, but the dancer still only gets 10) tho I think the drink prices might be a little higher. The main thing is that they realize that the girls are important, and they treat us that way.
Childcare is a good idea that never seems to work out. Best strategy might be to locate someone who provides daycare out of their home with night hours, see how they feel about dancers and run background checks on them, then refer your girls there. That will make carpooling convenient and encourage freindships among your dancers. Honestly though, most dancers already have someone to watch their kids.
Lena
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Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
Unfortunately, toying with the idea of treating your waitresses, bouncer and DJ as employees may set a precedent which also forces you to treat your dancers as employees. In all cases this means paying these people minimum wage, making payments to the state for comp and unemployment insurance, being bound by labor law precedents etc.
In general, dancers who don't mind being treated as employees are girls who are marginal earners that would benefit from the guaranteed minimum wage and lack of fees/tipouts (it's illegal to charge employees anything for the privilege of working!), and girls who don't plan on travelling or "bettering themselves" who would benefit from the extra job security. Unfortunately, the type of dancers that a new club needs to build a reputation, i.e. primo eye candy + talent, in most cases would look upon being considered an employee as a big negative. Employees are limited in business expense deductions to 2% of their declared income, which doesn't amount to much. Employees have their income 100% reported and have taxes withheld weekly. Generally when the club must cover the fixed financial liabilities that go along with employees, the clubs generate this revenue by retaining a significant piece of table dance/private dance/champagne room money. This directly cuts into the earnings potential of primo dancers, who might get to keep more of the table dance/private dance/champagne room money they generate at another club which classifies them as independent contractors.
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Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
Keep the info coming guys,
Like I said I'm 1000 miles away from my contacts and research area so basically all I can do is get the lawyers to earn their money and search online for info myself.
As far as the full employee deal goes I figured it was pretty illogical, but I figured what the fuck...you guys know what you want better than I do.
More than likely I'll just have to cut my profits for a while and initiate a price war with the competition, but like all owners / investors I want to keep money coming in as quickly as possible over the long term.
More cannon fodder ideas to come......tanks for all the input guys you're making my research a shitload easier.
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Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
I wouldn't bother making all the staff full-time employees. That creates too much potential for liability and expense. What some clubs do is charge a set house fee, say $50, and split that between the house, housemom, DJ and bouncers. Something like $25 to the house, then $10 to the DJ, $5 to the housemom and $10 to split among the bouncers. This way everyone gets paid from every girl on shift, and the likelihood of hostility between staff and dancers is drastically reduced. Of course smart dancers will still tip a little extra to those who help them make money, to the DJ for playing specific sets, housemom for doing something extra for her, etc. That is normal and fine. Many clubs have bar/waitstaff setup as employees, earning the usual half-minimum-wage that other establishments pay for these employees. Dancers tip bartenders when they go to the bar for drinks, help sell drinks and encourage customers to tip bartenders and waitresses.
A tanning bed and shower in the dressing room is great and does wonders for promoting dancer loyalty. Small things like this and lockers that actually work go FAR in making dancers feel like you might care just a little about them, which goes a long way in making them feel good about working with you. Of course ultimately the dancers want to make money, but if they have the choice of making money in a club that is horrible to work in or one that is more comfortable, they'll pick the one that is more comfortable every time.
Regarding cutting prices and starting a price war: I don't think that benefits anybody. If you're going for a club that caters to clue collar guys who like to whoop and holler, get trashed on cheap pitchers of beer and fondle some flesh, that's fine, but if you're going for a more upscale club catering to more upscale clients, lowering prices could actually hurt you. As much as customers complain about inflated prices, those who frequent nice clubs will get a subconscious feeling that a place that offers low prices must not be quality and will probably be full of the loud and rowdy customers they probably prefer to avoid. Also, many top dancers are supicious of clubs offering low prices, and may avoid them. I do. You'd probably be better served to set up a nice establishment with competitive prices and offer a nice working environment to draw the good dancers, which will draw good customers.
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Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
I think an onsite daycare in a building seperate, but very near the club would be great. I would be willing to pay more to have my children right there and always have a sitter ready to go.
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Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
You need a little reality check....
The idea that $100-$150K will open a Adult Oriented club in any major market is ludicrous.
A decent C&W bar with far less needed in furniture and fixtures than a strip club costs closer to 3 times that.
A friend of mine invested in a club in Altlanta back in 91 and he got a small % for the $100K he put in. Although he has made it all back 10 fold snce then.
You'll need a $75K reserve just for legal fees your first year of operation
Before I'm asked....... Yes I've owned as well as operated clubs for others...... Built 2 from the ground up handling everything from site selectio to finish out to grand opening before turning them over after time to others.
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Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
I cant really add anything that probably hasnt already been said, but the treating the dancers well is soooo important.
When I was working there was a manager (not the general manager, but the night) He used to act like he owned the girls.
I remember I came in late one time, just once, and he came in stood in the doorway of the dressing room and yelled at me to HURRY HURRY HURRY! And when I was ready to walk out the dressing room, He looked at me real stern and said "RUN!"
Of coarse I wasnt gonna run in 8 in platforms, and I told him where to shove it of coarse.
Another thing, dont let other employees treat the dancers bad.
(Yup I have a story about that too)
I dont know if he had a really bad night the night before, or that night, but the DJ whom I got along really great, know I hated the white lights, I think they make even the prettiest girl look washed out, pale and unnatractive. Anyway I step out on stage and he turns the white lights on me, nothing else just the white ones. I was pissed. Got threw my set, and even one of the other girls was like "what the hell?
Well turns out he was pissed cause he didnt recieve a tip from me the night before. The reason being was he left the club before I came out the dressing room (no normal) anyway I did notice and had planned to tip him at the end of the shift for both nights. At that club, we were not required or encouaged to tip out bouncers, Dj's they were paid employees. Of course the dancers do though. Needless to say he didnt recieve his tip for either night after that.
Those kinds of things make for an unpleasant working enviornment.
Just thought Id share :)
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Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
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The idea that $100-$150K will open a Adult Oriented club in any major market is ludicrous.
I don't remember seeing him saying how much money he had to open the club. But if you do only have $150k then you should look to investors to help you with opening the club. Be realistic you can't even buy a house for that price, much less start a business from the ground up.
Also, I worked in a club one time that had an office set up to help the girls. It was there to help them find a place to live, find day care, find a surgeon, or help them get off of drugs. It really appeared the club cared about the girls because they were always there to help them with anything. Also I would say make sure you have enough lockers for the girls, I've been to clubs where you had to wait to be able to get a locker.
Ok Thats all the thinking I can do this early in the morning. LOL Good Luck with your business! I wish you all the best. ;)
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Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
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As far as my planning, I'm looking at maybe throwing out 100-150k to start up a decent sized club that can sustain itself through the start up phase.
Whispers, that's what I'm looking at for leasing a building, not building it....and sustaining me through a few months. that cash is guaranteed as of right now and I'm not looking at even getting the doors open until atleast December. I'm not gonna bullshit you and say I know exactly what I'm doing but I'm no fool either.....takes money to make money.
The office sounds like a good idea.
Thanks for the feedback.
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Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
Charging the dancers to work encourages prostitution. Any street ho can get money from her pimp and walk into a club to get some johns.
If you have your dancers work on 100% commission, and only hire pretty girls who are in good shape and have a good sales personality, you will make an absolute fortune and put every other dirtbag club owner in town out of business in no time. Just think of the great advertisements and billboards that you could post all over town. 'NO F-UGlies at SGTwoods place'. 'Guarunteed beautiful babes with pleasant personalities. '
When a dancer has to pay her "employer" as well as the employees of her "employer", she runs the risk of not making any money at all. It is possible for a dancer to actually lose money for going into work to keep the customers of the club entertained. That is just not right. The customers suffer because the dancer is not going to be able to keep a good attitude when faced with this sort of horrible treatment.
Most strip club owners know that young and naive women who have survived some major traumas in their life are not exactly full of self esteem; nor are they willing to stick up for themselves when they are being mistreated. They may be beautiful on the outside, but on the inside they are so run down and so afraid to demand the respect that all people deserve.
I have only been dancing for about one year now. I was absolutely shocked at the horrible treatment of these young women. What was even more shocking to me was the fact that these women are so willing to tolerate this kind of treatment. It is really sad.
If you are actually are a good business man who is intelligent enough to make money with out bieng a bully who kicks people when they are down, I might just consider moving to Atlanta myself. 8)
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Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
Livenude, head on down around Dec or Jan then : P
I've learned from many other peoples mistakes in life and plan to do the same with this prospective business. Sure all the owners are sitting pretty right now and I don't plan to fuck with them about it directly, but myself as a businessman know....there are always more than one way to do things. Sounds to me like all these guys are on one big wagon together. If there's an angle I'll find it.
As I've stated several times on this forum, my main concern other than my money, are the girls. My ex-wife was a dancer once upon a time....I saw the bullshit first hand and these guys are still feeding them shit and calling it Filet Mingon. I don't plan to revolt against the bigger guys, I just want to make a buck from their mismanagment.
Thanks again to all you guys, keep it coming....even criticism.
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Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
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Also I would say make sure you have enough lockers for the girls, I've been to clubs where you had to wait to be able to get a locker.
I totally agree. Make your lockers daily use. Have the dancer bring her own lock.
Also try not put too many dancers on a shift. Keep an hourly head count of how many customers are in the room and try to keep the ratio 2/ 3 to 1 in mind during scheduling . Ideally during peak times you want 2/3 customers per dancer.