Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
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When a dancer has to pay her "employer" as well as the employees of her "employer", she runs the risk of not making any money at all. It is possible for a dancer to actually lose money for going into work to keep the customers of the club entertained. That is just not right. The customers suffer because the dancer is not going to be able to keep a good attitude when faced with this sort of horrible treatment.
Funny, SCORES seems to do just fine using this system, charging girls a $200 stage fee + another $75 or so in tipouts plus charging about 50% of money spent on the President's Club. What this system actually does is financially weed out the 'marginal dancers' really fast, since if they are not popular with club customers they can indeed walk out of the club at the end of the night with less money than they walked in with and therefore won't come back if this happens repeatedly. In clubs which do not charge stage fees or high tipouts, 'marginal dancers' can continue to work for $100-$200 a night in private dance earnings, all the while lowering the "eye candy factor" and "entertainment factor" of the club. This in turn discourages upscale big spending customers who came in seeking primo girls from returning, which hurts the earnings potential of ALL the dancers in the club but particularly the primo ones. Next thing you know the primo dancers have moved on to greener pastures, and the club is full of 'marginal dancers' who are secure in their jobs earning $100-$200 a night. Unfortunately for the club owner, his earnings fall right along with the average earnings of the girls.
Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
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Funny, SCORES seems to do just fine using this system, charging girls a $200 stage fee + another $75 or so in tipouts plus charging about 50% of money spent on the President's Club. What this system actually does is financially weed out the 'marginal dancers' really fast, since if they are not popular with club customers they can indeed walk out of the club at the end of the night with less money than they walked in with and therefore won't come back if this happens repeatedly. In clubs which do not charge stage fees or high tipouts, 'marginal dancers' can continue to work for $100-$200 a night in private dance earnings, all the while lowering the "eye candy factor" and "entertainment factor" of the club.
Melonie - If the club owners do not make money off of the dancers, then they are forced to make money off of the customers by only hiring pretty dancers with good personalities. If they can make a large portion of their money off of the dancers, then of course they will hire any fugly street ho whose pimp has enough money to front her the house fee. We all know that the majority of dancers are not very pretty. They don't have to be. All they need is enough money from their pimp to go into the clubs and find their johns.
From what I have heard, back in the late 80's and early 90's you actually had to be really on the ball to get a job as a dancer. I also read something on this sight about the dancers at Score's NYC having "???butter faces???". That is not a term that I have heard before but it does not sound like a compliment.
I currently work with a lady here in Las Vegas who is very beautiful and intelligent who no longer works at scores because of those ridiculous fees. The club where I work only has one fugly that I have seen. We don't have to pay a fee from 3am - 3pm and during the times where we are required to pay it is never more than 60. Again, this is one of the few clubs where the majority of dancers are very pretty and have good personalities.
Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
some very good advice here. off the top of my head, i can only think of a few things to add. something that i've noticed the more successful clubs in my area tend to do is have a lot of special events. any holiday is a good excuse for some kind of interesting theme party. in between holidays, have lingerie nights or whips and leather nights, sports nights, host golf or tennis outings... anything out of the ordinary to draw the attention and interest of customers - people like any excuse for a party atmosphere instead of the regular hum-drum expectations most clubs provide.
advertise well, which includes having a good informative website that offers explicit directions to the club from all points. have an automated phone system with options for callers to find out info on upcoming events, the daily/nightly dancer line-up, employment/auditions, etc., and have an option to speak to a live human or at least be able to leave a message for a live human... and that option shouldn't connect through to the noisy main floor. i can't count how many times i've called a club for info about auditioning or if so-and-so is working and after dialing, the phone is answered by someone at the bar who can't hear over the noise, doesn't know how to answer a business phone line properly and doesn't even have any useful info to give.
to get some ideas from a customer view-point, check out www.stripclubjunkies.com which is the sister site to this one. i know there's been a few previous discussions there about what they do/don't like about clubs from the customer point of view... everything from pool tables to restroom trolls.
Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
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to get some ideas from a customer view-point, check out
www.stripclubjunkies.com which is the sister site to this one. i know there's been a few previous discussions there about what they do/don't like about clubs from the customer point of view... everything from pool tables to restroom trolls.
I like Alanna's advice here, but I think she meant to direct you to www.stripclubjunkie.com (leave out the plural 's'). www.stripclubjunkies.com will take you to the website of what appears to be a Danish musical group.
Hey, its the weekend. ::)
Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
Crazy, I don't know how the people treating the girls like shit has to do with your intial profit but from all I know about you I'd say that you are a good businessman.
I think you should scutinize your employees more to avoid the trouble ones you have at your club now. Outside of that I'd say go for it and good luck.
Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
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Whispers, that's what I'm looking at for leasing a building, not building it....and sustaining me through a few months. that cash is guaranteed as of right now and I'm not looking at even getting the doors open until atleast December. I'm not gonna bullshit you and say I know exactly what I'm doing but I'm no fool either.....takes money to make money.
I never considered for a moment that you would be wanting to buy anything for that price.
I've seen so many people look around their surroundings in a club and think "This sure didn't cost a lot to get open".
Assuming you have a clear background and perfect credit.
Assuming a small place around 5000 sq feet.
Let me walk you through a little exercise.
1) First a location. No easy task because of laws covering sexually oriented businesses and owners unwilling to rent to SOB's. So you'll spend some time and money on this one. Just for grins assume a 5000 sq foot shell in a small strip center can be found that has parking and meets your needs. You should be able to find somthing in the $1.25 a sq foot range.
So a Landlord is going to want first and last two up front and maybe in todays economy offer you a leasehold credit $8 a sq foot in finish out.
So your out $18,750 you have a lease in hand.
2) Now you start your licensing process. Without any experience you'll want an agency to assist so you'll be looking at between $8,000 and $10,000 here.
3) While your license is in process and your background is being checked it's time to turn that old shell that used to be a dry cleaners or minimart into something close to what you might want. The licensing process will take 2-3 months so you can take a little time and look for the best deals on construction. For a lack luster finishout with basic plumbing, an electrical system to support sound an lighting and resonable carpet you'll probably spend around $12-$14 a square foot
$60,000-$70,000
You didn't think the landlord would spend this did you? Not in todays economy, not for clubs (too high risk) and not for inexperienced operators. What he does is "allow you" that $8 a square foot that he will take off your rent starting in the first month you are open by reducing your agreed upon rent by 20% a month or so.
So 2 months down the line your shell is taking shape, your backgrounds are done and your license is smooth sailing and it's time to post public notices (required in the licesing process) of your intentions.
Because of the nature of the business every city code inspector coming along during the construction phase jacks you and requires things redone and the low end of your Finish out estimates increases by 10%
4) So now you are about $93,000 into a lease and shell with no furniture and no license yet and the first challenge to your license comes up. I've never opened a SOB (ran 2) but the average number of issues we had opening dance clubs was 3-5.
Here's where you'll need a good lawyer that will set you back $2K to $3K handling the necessary hearings and paperwork to set the challengers at ease. AT least 2 other tenants if not more will be a part of this as well as every church, daycare and school and several neighbors from the surrounding community.
This phase cost us $20K on a dance club in Lafayette a couple of years ago.
4) Assuming all goes well now and your going to get all your necessary licenses month 4 is approaching. Your out $115K at the low end but from experience I would bet closer to $200K.
You've had no source of income if you've been pushing it all yourself for 3 months now.
Landlord wants his rent (plus something you didn't fully understand when you signed the lease called "triple net") He only gave you the first 3 months to get it open.
You still need to hire and train a staff and conduct an advertising campaign. "If you build it they will come" doesn't work without another $20K in newspaper and radio spread across the month prior.
You can't open those doors or even meet the terms of your lease without $1million in Liability insurance. Hard enough to come by for a normal bar but a SOB?..... Cash up front.... Probably around $30K a year (Last C&W bar I did was around $1800 a month).....
So now we are in the $165K to $250K(realistically) range and close to being able to open those doors now.
What did we forget in this exercise? , We still don't have sound, lighting, music, furniture, fixtures etc..... This is so subjective and goes to what level of ambiance you are striving for that it can range from $150K up to Millions.
So at best you are out of money and most likely another $50K in debt and you still need another $100-$150K to outfit the place. No one loans money to these type of ventures but Dad takes out a mortgage and give you some more cash.
So Month 5 comes along, You've got your doors open, your $300K-$450K into a project and the you start getting cited for staff doing stupid things like serving minors, illegal sexual contact, etc. You'll challenge much of it and win some of the case and pay fines on the other but it will be a steady $2500-$5000 a month expense. That's what I meant when I said you will need a Legal Reserve.
Bottom line here is........ If it could be done for $500K or less the number of topless bars in the country would triple overnight. Every long time manager or operator of other venues would be getting 2 buddies to throw $100K in with them and opening up like 7-11's
The last organization I worked with and opened a club for currently operates 17 nightclubs in Texas and Lousiana. Each Club successfully opened was countered by 3 failures that never made it to the point the doors were opened and each failure cost more than you are thinking you need.
It's nice to dream though isn't it?
I agree. It takes money to make money. But often, not having enough money, meanslosing everything you have.
Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
Oh yeah......
The little exercise above doesn't for a second take into account the money needed to incorporate ANY of the ideas or suggestions presented.
Or the monthly maintenance costs of the place. Which by the way is far more than you can imagine. In all the clubs I ran the cost to maintain ladies restrooms was 5 times as expensive as mens. You'll be replacing mirrors, toilets and the doors on stalls regularly.
Daycare? Not near a SOB. I haven't seen a single ordinance that governs SOB's that doesn't incorporate language prohibiting their existence within a certain distance from Day Cares, chrshes, schools etc.... Opening one close? Better have another $150K ready...... I KNOW the expense of that. I own part of one I helped a lady set up. She thought she needed $50K to do it on her own...... Got me involved when she was broke and $100K later I own 70% of her dream.
Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
Whispers, I do appreciate your feedback and concern for my financial well-being. Also, all the data you provided was very informative. Thing is when you speak to people like children they have a tendancy to consider you an asshole. If you feel I just called you an asshole then I made my point.
Don't lose any sleep over my business venture friend, I'll be fine!
Thanks again for all the posts guys!
Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
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Whispers, I do appreciate your feedback and concern for my financial well-being. Also, all the data you provided was very informative. Thing is when you speak to people like children they have a tendancy to consider you an asshole. If you feel I just called you an asshole then I made my point.
Don't lose any sleep over my business venture friend, I'll be fine!
Thanks again for all the posts guys!
Personally I never lose sleep over "wannabes" and "posers". Sorry to burst your little bubble but do continue to enjoy the limelight.
And I've been called far worse in my days........ Often after outing some "pretender" trying to be something he wasn't to some young lady. The last one was an Air Force Nurse pretending he was some wanted drug dealer to make an impression on a lady in a club in Austin........ Poor guy actually could have had the lady if he was honest with her...... He thinks I'm an asshole too!
I was never concerned for your well being....... financial or otherwise.......
I just saw it as an opportunity to throw some factual information into the mix of just how expensive it is to open a club of most any kind...... Someone may walk into a club tonight with a different appreciation for their surroundings or workplace.
I see a lot of bellyaching over the monies the clubs take out of the mix but few probably have a real appreciation for the costs of operating these places.
Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
Whispers, to be such a busy man with all of your clubs and investments you sure do seem to have alot of time on your hands.
Also I never called you anything, I simply implied that people who speak to other adults like they're children usually get viewed as assholes.
Take care & thanks again.
Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
Sgt Wood, just a quick comment.
I thinnk it is great that you have the initiative to tackle trying to open a club in a major market.
Remember the proverb though that a wise person realizes that he doesn't know everything.
Whispers spoke from extensive experience in this business and people who are at his level will come across like a father. He did not have to take the time to tell you in detail what he did about the trials and tribulations of opening a club, and you should swallow your pride and really evaluate your position and if you will really be able to afford the venture, especially in a large city.
When you go to your attorney or take a seminar you will be forewarned about things.
I wish you the best , but never feel less of a person beecause someone with experience gives you advice. Once you gain experience you will be giving advice to other wanna bees the same way he gave it to you.
Why do you think the mafia is involved in many large club ventures? Because bankers don't want to take on the risk.
Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
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I like Alanna's advice here, but I think she meant to direct you to
www.stripclubjunkie.com (leave out the plural 's').
www.stripclubjunkies.com will take you to the website of what appears to be a Danish musical group.
Hey, its the weekend.
ooooops! my bad. thanks for correcting that link, Doc Fish. that could have been a big problem if the Sarge started asking questions like this of that Danish band... but maybe he could get a t-shirt and a backstage pass. ;D
Re: Need feedback from all the dancers out there
SGT. WOOD- Unless you're affiliated with the mob, then be very cautious. Cities and counties like to wait until you've dropped almost as much $$ as you possibly can then they pull the temp permits for various bogus reasons!! However, I wish you the best of luck, as every strip club isn't as nice as they should be to their girls!