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Re: Dancing in the 70's 80's and 90's
When I started dancing in the mid 90's we had to wear two thongs and.....pantyhose! The most scandalous thing dancers started doing at that time was crawling on stage. We were not allowed to simulate sex acts or touch ourselves, or our our g-strings in any way. I can honestly say I never touched a customer in any way my first six years of dancing and the money was even better than it is now. I remember the owner coming by and smacking my knee when I rested the ball of my foot momentarily on a customer's knee for balance.
Besides the differences already mentioned in previous posts I see a huge difference in not just the physical but the mental/emotional contact involved in stripping now. For the first 8 or so years I danced it was more about being hot and sexy and fun and bouncing from guy to guy around the room. Now there is a psychological intensity as it's necessary to stick with one guy and try to draw as much out as you can. Now dancers use cell phones, email to keep their regulars hooked. There was no VIP when I started and it was a club rule that dancers couldn't sit with a guy for more than 2 songs. I loved not getting to know the guys and being the mysterious, untouchable "entertainment".
Stripping in the mid 90's was more about getting to see the pretty naked girls than grinding away at some weirdo faux relationship.
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Re: Dancing in the 70's 80's and 90's
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Originally Posted by shakti
When I started dancing in the mid 90's we had to wear two thongs and.....pantyhose! The most scandalous thing dancers started doing at that time was crawling on stage. We were not allowed to simulate sex acts or touch ourselves, or our our g-strings in any way. I can honestly say I never touched a customer in any way my first six years of dancing and the money was even better than it is now. I remember the owner coming by and smacking my knee when I rested the ball of my foot momentarily on a customer's knee for balance.
Besides the differences already mentioned in previous posts I see a huge difference in not just the physical but the mental/emotional contact involved in stripping now. For the first 8 or so years I danced it was more about being hot and sexy and fun and bouncing from guy to guy around the room. Now there is a psychological intensity as it's necessary to stick with one guy and try to draw as much out as you can. Now dancers use cell phones, email to keep their regulars hooked. There was no VIP when I started and it was a club rule that dancers couldn't sit with a guy for more than 2 songs. I loved not getting to know the guys and being the mysterious, untouchable "entertainment".
Stripping in the mid 90's was more about getting to see the pretty naked girls than grinding away at some weirdo faux relationship.
I CANNOT agree with this more.
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Re: Dancing in the 70's 80's and 90's
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And I'm glad you did. What made the tides change ladies?
New technology (internet, XXX cable) combined with new corporate governance (no expense account use in strip clubs) combined with a declining economy (which left girls 'hungrier' and guys seeking 'more bang for their buck')
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What made clubs want to bring in "more girls" instead of having an elite few?
A fundamental change in the strip club business model. In the 'good ol days' clubs could hit customers for a fat cover charge plus lots of overpriced food and drinks and cigars - which is now mostly regulated out of business by drunk driving and no smoking laws plus corporate bans on the use of expense accounts in strip clubs. So instead of earning the majority of their money directly from customers, clubs now depend on collecting stage fees from dancers for a major portion of their income. Of course from the club's standpoint, twice as many dancers per shift equals twice as much money collected in stage fees (non-withstanding the fact that dancers' individual earnings wind up being cut in half in the process).
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Will there ever come a time when clubs can go back in time to be like Bridgette's or at least treat the ladies like princesses
Not a chance. Pandora's box has been opened. 'Extras' have jumped out. Club customers will never be willing to accept less 'bang for their buck' than they are currently getting. Corporate accountants will never be willing to accept huge strip club bills on the company's credit card again, and many are actually beginning to ban male employees from going to strip clubs at all on the basis that female employees can't be treated equally. Bible thumpers will never quietly tolerate strip clubs in their neighborhood again. Exotic dancing has made an irreversible transition from 'show' business to 'sex' business in the eye of the general public as well as in the minds of clubowners and investors.
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Re: Dancing in the 70's 80's and 90's
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Originally Posted by Crow
the special woman that knew how to light cigars, adjust a mans suit coat, make sure he had his keys and pocket change when he left and so forth..
Every now and then you still see a guy who appreciates this kinda thing as much as or more than the sexual aspect. Not to say they don't all appreciate the hot lapdances, but what gets and keeps them in the VIP for hours on end is the sort of thing described above. I've been told with admiration and a hint of surprise that I "really know how to treat a man" by these guys, in the middle of a long VIP session. It's still a little amazing to me that so many guys have come to expect us to NOT have any manners. It is the rare custy these days who appreciates and pays for this type of entertainment though :(
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Re: Dancing in the 70's 80's and 90's
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Originally Posted by Bridgette
Every now and then you still see a guy who appreciates this kinda thing as much as or more than the sexual aspect. Not to say they don't all appreciate the hot lapdances, but what gets and keeps them in the VIP for hours on end is the sort of thing described above. I've been told with admiration and a hint of surprise that I "really know how to treat a man" by these guys, in the middle of a long VIP session. It's still a little amazing to me that so many guys have come to expect us to NOT have any manners. It is the rare custy these days who appreciates and pays for this type of entertainment though :(
And the man that does is older, well traveled and knows how to spend money. I mean he just doesn't like throw it out in a money shower. Don't get me wrong that is nice too.. The guy that appreciates the hot lap dance AND this sort of treatment tips, and will give his stripper of choice money for sitting with him and so forth. In other words he knows what the rules are and plays well with others.
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Re: Dancing in the 70's 80's and 90's
The money is harder to earn now, more clubs, more girls, fewer customers. A lot of my old regulars have left the club scene for good, some just moved on but every now and then I'll see an old one drift in and one of the first comments they make is how much better it used to be.
I worked mostly in the top clubs but did time in some of the not so nice ones too when I was travelling or just wanted a change. I can remember nights where the place would be so packed it would take 20mins to get from one side of the place to the other (not a good thing but busy) Some nights I was still there at 7am with customers literally running to grab me for a show before I'd try to sneek off home. Top earners consistantly made $1500 a shift on the WEs some made that on a day shift! The money is still around but not consistantly and not as readily, guys seem to have forgotten why they go there.
There is not as much prestige given to the top dancers anymore, we used to get a lot of stuff free and get invited to a lot of club openings and exclusive parties, doesn't happen so much anymore.
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Re: Dancing in the 70's 80's and 90's
I hate to admit it but this business will never be the same. The social forces that made dancing hot to guys is over. Women entering management and raising children alone made it very attractive to have an old-fashioned sexist/worshipful interaction with a woman. Men have adjusted to the New World Order and are now redefining their roles in relationships with us and their identities. The more corporate a business becomes the less sensitivity to worker needs. They will not be shut down because they will pay the right politicians. They will not treat us as precious ever again because we're not. When I started being a dancer was like being part of a secret underground society, now it's every teeny boppers dream. We got paid $20 an hour, free dinner every night, two free mixed drinks at the bar, a tanning bed in the dressing room, showers, a hair dresser, and a makeup artist. Oh, and you could come and leave as you pleased as long as they got four good hours from you. Now I'm a corporate cog in the machine and when I break I must bring a doctor's note. I must pay everyone or be abused. Yep, I like the sexist '90s better. Good times, good times.....
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Re: Dancing in the 70's 80's and 90's
^^^^I think this sums it up very well.
Local bars in my area in NJ didn't begin to have lapdances until the mid 90's. I started dancing in the late 80's where it was ALL about the stage show. If you weren't a performer, you weren't getting tipped. Guys were selective and it weeded out the less talented.
I will always blame the lapdance for the breakdown of the industry in my area. Before, you HAD to pull your weight and entertain. Now it's all about who puts out the most. Melonie's assessment of guys wanting more bang for their buck is true with every pun (bang) intended, I'm sure.
I miss the 80's where we were the most sought after for bands wanting girls in their stage show (this was how I actually started to dance) and videos (been in a few). Where high rollers came in with their clients and literally showered money on us just for our company. Actually getting pay raises because you worked hard and were on time.
I could go on and on....but boy do I miss those days. I feel lucky to have experienced them.
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Re: Dancing in the 70's 80's and 90's
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Originally Posted by Crow
And the man that does is older, well traveled and knows how to spend money. I mean he just doesn't like throw it out in a money shower. Don't get me wrong that is nice too.. The guy that appreciates the hot lap dance AND this sort of treatment tips, and will give his stripper of choice money for sitting with him and so forth. In other words he knows what the rules are and plays well with others.
Yep, except very often they're not really 'older' but only in their 30s. There's a breed of customer who's not yet old enough to be too jaded, but successful enough at a younger age to have the money and know a thing or two about how to use it. I do best with those ;D
I also agree with the 'sexist' comments above. Too much feigned equality between the sexes has led to hostility IMO, and it spills into every aspect of male/female relations - which is of course exaggerated in the strip club.
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Re: Dancing in the 70's 80's and 90's
In the 70's nude clubs appeared. Where I lived they promptly lost their liquor licenses
almost immediately after changing to nude. The nude format I think came about because the 60's go go clubs were closing, but that was before my time. They then reclocated to suburbs or unincorporated areas that needed revenue and had sloppy zoning.
It was all stage show. Sometimes dancers might sit with regulars, but not with most customers. No tabler side dances. No lap dances.The came the table side dances in the early 1980's. I still don't think dancers mingled with customers during this period.
Soem liqurer licenses were restored due to favorable legal rulings.
By the late 1980's early 1990' mingling and table side dances were in. No lap dances or VIP rooms. Sometime in the lates 90's (which I didn't notice or recall) the lap dance and VIP room concept came in. At any rate that is the progression I recall. Probably missed alot of intermediate points. General observation now. If nude with liquorer license, no lap dance.
If not nude lap dance but almost always license. I note a trade off for full nude and mingling
as long as full liquorer license, but no lap dance allowed. Interested in comments on this because I may be wrong on this.
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Originally Posted by Jo Weldon
That's an interesting article. I went to the O'Farrell back in ca. 1982 when I was a naive college student. When a girl came up to me and asked if I'd like a lap dance, I really had no idea what she was talking about.
There was also the Kopenhagen Room, which had the most explicit (and interactive) show I've ever experienced, even in the subsequent quarter century. I nearly had a heart attack!
I only went there once (though I lived in the area for another 6 years). Too much for me!
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Re: Dancing in the 70's 80's and 90's
I forgot to add this last night but it feels like out and out warfare now. It's warfare between the sexes and between the girls and between managers and workers. DylanAngel I bet you had the same shock I did when you first met the customers up close and personal. In Jersey there's a big bar between the customers and us on the stage. I worked happily for years talking with the sweeties and breezing by the oddballs. NOW I gotta chat with all of the oddballs to make up for great guys, young and old, who've left the scene because the stressed out hordes of dour wannadancers have swarmed one time too many. And you are so right, it was an unspoken requirement that you have at least one good pole routine to ace your audition at the better clubs. And being educated, suburban, or experienced was a good thing not a sign of being 'too demanding for management and customers to exploit'.
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Re: Dancing in the 70's 80's and 90's
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Originally Posted by Optimist
And being educated, suburban, or experienced was a good thing not a sign of being 'too demanding for management and customers to exploit'.
Yep. I experienced this too. Now it seems so many clubs prefer their girls as young and naive as possible - they are more easily manipulated and abused, and don't even know it. When I first started, the fact I was inexperienced was a liability and I was made to start on dayshift to get trained properly before being let loose on nights.
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Re: Dancing in the 70's 80's and 90's
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Originally Posted by Niceguy
General observation now. If nude with liquorer license, no lap dance.
If not nude lap dance but almost always license. I note a trade off for full nude and mingling
as long as full liquorer license, but no lap dance allowed. Interested in comments on this because I may be wrong on this.
In many states, full nudity anywhere in the club means no liquor license in that establishment. Some states that have nude clubs will let those clubs get away with BYOB, some must go juice only. In some places, clubs have loopholed their way out of this to some extent by making their club into a "split bar" with a topless liquor club on one side, and a nude N/A one on the other, going so far to give each "side" its own club name for legal purposes, even though they may be referred to as one club in advertising.
I am thankful to live in one of the few states where you can have both full nudity and full alcohol, although some localities have limited the nudity under certain circumstances. Locally, girls here can can fully bottomless but only on stage, yet they must wear pasties over their nipples. (You figure that one out). When they are off stage however and giving private dances, they must be fully covered.
Needless to say, I hear accounts from the old timers of what these clubs were like 20-30 years ago, and in some respects I'm jealous of what those guys got to experience. The funny thing is that some of these jaded old guys make two completely opposite complaints on the present state of strip clubs. Some say they've quit going because they've become sanitized and boring, others say they lost interest because they're too dirty and unsafe.
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Re: Dancing in the 70's 80's and 90's
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Originally Posted by Optimist
DylanAngel I bet you had the same shock I did when you first met the customers up close and personal. In Jersey there's a big bar between the customers and us on the stage. I worked happily for years talking with the sweeties and breezing by the oddballs. NOW I gotta chat with all of the oddballs to make up for great guys, young and old, who've left the scene because the stressed out hordes of dour wannadancers have swarmed one time too many. And you are so right, it was an unspoken requirement that you have at least one good pole routine to ace your audition at the better clubs. And being educated, suburban, or experienced was a good thing not a sign of being 'too demanding for management and customers to exploit'.
Oh boy Optimist, ya got that right! Shocked is not even the word to describe how I felt having to do lapdances after years of actually performing, on a daily basis, what would now amount to "feature shows" (costume, dance, and music coordination). I think it's sad.
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Re: Dancing in the 70's 80's and 90's
I think it's a total shame how stripping has changed over the years. The loss of the barrier between "looking" and "touching" has definitely led to increased hostility. I don't see how clubs ever could go back to the way they were because it's a win/win situation for both the club owners and the customers these days. It seems all clubs now cater to the lowest common denominator. Not all men want a dancer grinding away with her boobs mashed in his face the whole time, there are many that find it degrading and they don't come around anymore. I ran into an old club regular about a year ago, he mentioned that he no longer goes to the club "because all the dancers act like they're starving".
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Re: Dancing in the 70's 80's and 90's
The clubs have opened up their dancer ranks to less talented (maybe serious) girls in an effort to increase their sales. Of course this doesn't always work, as the dancer population can change the club's customer base. Further as word has gotten out to more people that one can make big (well, potentially, and commonly a lot more than their alternatives) money pretty fast (with little required training) in dancing, more girls took up dancing as a profession or at least lifestyle. So both of these changes were interdependent and fed on each other. As it became more 'acceptable' to dance and have more sex partners, and drugs became more 'in style' thing changed in those areas too, affecting work quality for the more 'serious' dancers.
(I may have to define my terms later.)
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Re: Dancing in the 70's 80's and 90's
I am actually old enough to have bought Blaze Starr a drink (OK, I was a kid and she was at the very end of her career . . . ) , and I am not so sure the current environment is worse than the "good old days".
Some of the clubs on Baltimore's block in the early 70s had nationally-known feature acts with wonderful costumes, but the back rooms had beds in them and there was no subtlety in the solicitation. Some Chicago clubs at the time had doormen in suits and intricate stage acts, but the core business was the same.
As a customer I know very little about changes in how the clubs treat the dancers, fees, etc., but as for the classiness of the experience, I would take one of today's top-flight clubs in Houston, NY or Toronto over those clubs any time.
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Re: Dancing in the 70's 80's and 90's
And I remember seeing Tempest Storm near the end of hers. Still was a sexy looking gal.
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Re: Dancing in the 70's 80's and 90's
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Originally Posted by shakti
I ran into an old club regular about a year ago, he mentioned that he no longer goes to the club "because all the dancers act like they're starving".
In a manner of speaking, they probably are.
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Re: Dancing in the 70's 80's and 90's
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Originally Posted by shakti
I ran into an old club regular about a year ago, he mentioned that he no longer goes to the club "because all the dancers act like they're starving".
That is one HUGE reason why many of the "better" customers stopped going to the clubs.
Too many dancers, and not enough spending customers, causes the few guys who are spending to be treated like sitting ducks.
My wealthy regular told me the other day he feels uncomfortable going in the club to see me because it is slow, and the other dancers hassle him when I go on stage or am busy. He still gives me money over lunch or sends me money, but those 2 nights he would come in per booking buying 10 dances per night helped my numbers and stats in the club. Guys who are older and "established looking" can't relax in the club because every girl in there sees them as moneybags and wants a piece of the pie.
These clubowners have got to make the clubs more fun, and create more momentum, so that more customers spread money around and dancers aren't so dependent on a handful of customers.
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Re: Dancing in the 70's 80's and 90's
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Originally Posted by doc-catfish
In some places, clubs have loopholed their way out of this to some extent by making their club into a "split bar" with a topless liquor club on one side, and a nude N/A one on the other, going so far to give each "side" its own club name for legal purposes, even though they may be referred to as one club in advertising.
Dear god, this is an amazing idea. I might bring this up to my club's owner and see what he thinks about it. In Hollywood, especially, we are confined to either dancing fully nude or working in a full bikini bar. There is no in-between until you go into the Valley. I'd love to be able to show more, and still have drunk custies to take advantage of.
;D
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Re: Dancing in the 70's 80's and 90's
I think the club scene has lost its heart. There were fewer rules but more ettiquite, girls were able to do "more" but actually did less, they knew how to give a good show without feeling they had to go over the top and customers felt they got value. The newer girls don't seem to have that kind of self confidence, fewer of them have the "larger than life persona" that holds an audience and too many of them either don't care about how they come across or think they are something special but don't have the show/look and stage presence to back it up. The laws are stricter but rather than preventing problems they actually seem to cause them.
A top stripper used to be able to walk into a room and have its attention, they had that "it" factor, there's not much of that around anymore, sure there are some pretty girls and some good dancers around but the new generation in general lacks the wow factor. Even us old girls are starting to feel a little faded without the audience to give the shows meaning.
It's kind of like how we used to have supermodels and that whole thing that went along with it, it's not that they looked better or were better at what they did as such, it's that they caught our imagination and the new generation hasn't done that quite so well as the times allowed in the past.
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Re: Dancing in the 70's 80's and 90's
^^ Yep. We've gone from quality not quantity, to quantity not quality. Blah :(
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Re: Dancing in the 70's 80's and 90's
[quolena whats the name of the club and town that pays $500.00 a week?te=Lena;187982]I started dancing seven or eight years ago in Alaska. I was so obviously way underage it was a miracle anyplace let me work, and the place that did was the worst place in town.
It was rough, but there weren't many extras going on - there was actually a whorehouse down the street for that! Security was non-existant and mostly consisted of me, the bartender, another dancer who was nuts, and the regulars. I would carry a knife in my costume on busy nights. We danced on stage and did table dances (actually dancing on the tables). This place was fun and let me run around barefoot half the time. Costumes were mostly cheap lingerie.
When I was sixteen I got a fake ID and worked in some nicer clubs, travelled a little. One club was very nice, had etiquette training for the dancers before they could work, elaborate dresses, etc. Dancing was very important in the place and I remember practicing that burlesquey kick for hours - the older dancers would all watch my show every time and I could tell by the looks on their faces how I looked. We sold Champagne and table dances. Champagne got me to stay at your table, and then you could buy a table dance. It wasn't uncommon for people to spend a thousand dollars on champagne and tips.
At another club the dancers were cocktail waitresses, and every fifteen minutes one would get up on stage and do a show. There was no pole and this place was all about the theater in the dance. They paid dancers $350/wk.
All of that's much different now, tho I hear that the last club is still open, has a pole now, and pays dancers $500/wk.
Lena[/quote]