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Re: All ethnic dancers please read
I don't think that anyone here is trying to justify the point that decisions clubowners make in regard to hiring ethnic dancers are right or non-descriminatory - I certainly hope you don't think that I am supporting that position because I'm not. All I am trying to do is help girls put themselves inside the clubowner's head, so that they can use this info to their own advantage. What's being pointed out in this thread is that clubowners DO in fact make decisions based on their own financial interests, their own perceptions and experiences with ethnic dancers, and their own opinions in regard to the supposed preferences of their club's customer base.
If you're not prepared to deal with the realities of the dancing business in most areas of the US, you've made a wise decision not to dance. When every city in the country reaches the level of "inter-racial comfort" and "customer equality" that currently exists in Atlanta, you won't have to deal with this issue anymore.
But from many reactions in this thread and in past threads about the same subject it seems that discussing this issue honestly always results in a "no win situation" - unless the posts are confined to "yes black dancers are descriminated against by every single clubowner when hiring new dancers" and "upscale clubowners should be forced to institute affirmative actions programs", and also "the only reason that black dancers don't earn as much money as white dancers in a given club is descrimination on the part of club customers", a person posting comments other than along these lines gets jumped on, and directly or indirectly accused of supporting racism. No point in my continuing ...
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Re: All ethnic dancers please read
This is why i will then start to believe in an audition for every damn club! Red white, black, brown yellow. Forget it. Take the lady in to audition for you, because really....If a lady NO MATTER WHAT COLOUR can dance and do sexy moves, hustle, dress, and is willing to give charisma she will make the damn club money!
Problem is club owners are looking at the shell, there don't not see the whole package. They short change themselves. Pity them.
Ask for an audition! Show em what you can offer them! That is one way around the "ignorant" system. If she brings in money club owners won't know until they see her dance first with out the worry of a sucky dancer stuck inside the club, and waiting to starve her out.
Be blunt, be serious, tell them they are hiring, "i want to show you what i got to offer your club"!!! Go get the job!! Dance your ass off, they will keep you if you are a mover and a shaker. It's all about money.
My thoughts on this ignorance. We have coloured women....THey bank. They also AUDITIONED...It gets you in the door, and someone HAS to look past the shell.
Lotsa luck ladies :)
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Re: All ethnic dancers please read
The real reality with race is that people of color with similar incomes and education to whites are no different than whites.
The more similarities in income between the races the more similar our lifestyles are.
Ghetto blacks, barrio hispanics and poor whites are similar in mannerisms and cannot cut it in a higher end environment.
Middle and upper middle class blacks and hispanics are similar to whites of the same class.
So when one clumps all blacks and hispanics into the same group, one must look at the level they are in life first.
And Candigrl/Topaz, you need to be more positive. Any business you get into in life requires you to prove yourself no matter what race you are.
Covermark works excellently for covering tattoos and if you are friendly and smile with customers and look your best you will sell dances.
All women are supposed to look their best. Stop being negative. EVERYONE has to adapt to their environment no matter what race they are. We all wake up in the morning looking ugly but with proper makeup and hairstyling and stylish attire then we as women become attractive.
If you want to go around saying this is who I am, you will not be successful in ahything you do.
I am not down on you but you are down on yourself. Stop saying what you cannot do and do what you need to do to look good and be friendly and fun with customers and you WILL make money. You say you have a good body and Covermark is THE BEST product made to cover tattoos and scars. Why don't you order some in your skin tone and see?
You are holding yourself back. The only thing wrong with you is your negativity.
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Re: All ethnic dancers please read
Good luck to you in whatever you decide to do next.
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Re: All ethnic dancers please read
Out here on the west coast they resolve the problem quite differently. They charge the strippers to work in their club. They don't care what color you are. They'll take your money irreguardless of who you are.
The problem fighting a discrimination case in the entertainment field (and I know how hard it is to fight a discrimination case) is that the arts do not rank high on the necessities list. That is, while we all may need to use public transportation, take civil service jobs for a living, and at one time fullfill military service, no one is required to employ entertainment services. I live in an "at will" state which means you voluntarily worked for a company so the company can voluntarily fire you. While this does not circumvent the racial discrimination laws it definately makes it harder to prove your case.
One of the things I have to side with the entertainment industry is, is that the industry is driven by the market forces. That's the whole Hooter's lawsuit case that the company discriminated against male waiters. The clubs cannot exercise exclusive control over their customers preferences for big boobs, shapely thighs, youthful looks, firm butt or whatever.
You can't put a quota on human attraction. You can't demand people desire male over female, fat over thin, old over young, smooth over wrinkled. Is there anyone telling you what you must desire in a dancer, model, mate, etc.?
If you do feel that discrimination is the major reason for peoples enticement demographics then the best route may be to establish your own club where you feel you can be successful with your policies instead of trying to force others to adopt yours.
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Re: All ethnic dancers please read
oh girl I am SO feeling you. Same thing has happened to me. Call them, tell them your coming and when you get there theyre like, "did u call us? No, are u sure?" and tell me theyre not hiring and you know thats crap when you've done dressed up, packed your bags and hiked halfway around town to get to the damn audition.
hm:(
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Re: All ethnic dancers please read
Does anyone else get the a+holes who give caucasian girls the dollar and when you go round to get it they tell you to turn around and do something extra with your ass for them? Or the cabs that continually screech past you after work only to stop in front of the caucasian dancer/staff to give them a ride. At that time in the morning when your dog tired , hell-tha is NOT funny, that is just plain racist as hell.Ive asked the cab drivers why and they told me its because a blakc or latina is more likely to jump fair or rob them. Im like, how the hell cantheyc ome to that conclusion when they saw me standing outside the club where ive obviously been working.
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Re: All ethnic dancers please read
oops sorry, slip of the finger on the double post.
Ive just got to say that i am SO happy you are all talking about this. I thought I was going through this alone and that all the other black/latina dancers had some kind of secret weapon to not ever have to go through it. Yes it really does make us angry. I just think we must be a threat in all reality because these white bosses dont want to ose control. They want to keep this fantasy that only white, blonde barbie dolls will forever be the love of every guys life but the real world says different. Guys really want a mix.
I went through total crap to get hired, changed my hair so many times to fit the club, curly to straight to wavy to mid length to long.
Changed the way I spoke for auditions, mellowed it so they wouldnt mistake me for a ghetto girl. Every damn thing you can think of I did it.
CEO house mom told me they have too many dark skimmed girls and Id just look like a clone so come back if I ever dye my hair blonde!
Scores housemom said the black girls that work there look like clones so try again next month, Yet ive seen the girls and the only common thing about them is theyre not white!
Yep its true, the club owners are scared, but what they dont seem to realize is that the customers are really sick of the blonde barbie thing and are complaining to us (the wrong people) that more black girls are needed for variety.
Im currently earning a fortune at weekends because there are only 2 black girls at our club and we have a queue of customers from Friday to Sunday pulling our arms and waiting to dance with us. I think that says something. For Manhattan thats ridiculous!
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Re: All ethnic dancers please read
My last word is that I dont see myslef as different to any other race, the only time I see that I mightbe called black is when someone points it out to me and these clubs make sure you know it. Its very sad but I guess it echos whats happening outside. Martin Luther King days gone but it didnt change everything for us. Love u all.
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Re: All ethnic dancers please read
no doubt a lot of club owners are racist. i know of racist clubowners that hire mostly black girls, too. they don't care if the girls make them money. i'm sure not everyone manifests their hangups the same way....at any rate, i've done the same thing you have....called first and walked in five minutes later only to be given the runaround. except, i'm white. sometimes they just don't like your looks or your attitude (this happened once when i didn't dress up, do my hair, or put on makeup first, and another time when i was really nervous and got goofy), or they are just a**holes. i went back to the one of same clubs but talked to a different person, and they hired me on the spot.
however, this is not to discount your experiences.
i do, however have a hard time selling dances to younger black guys. they act like they want a dance, tell me i'm sexy and they want me, but then they don't get dances. is it because i'm white? are they trying not to offend someone?
is it harder for a dark skinned girl to sell dances to men of other races?
is it me?
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Re: All ethnic dancers please read
We have got 3 dancers from Nigiria, i am half brazilian we do very wel in our club!!! I think it's depense how you are not how dark you are...
atleast not in our club!!!
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"however have a hard time selling dances to younger black guys. they act like they want a dance, tell me i'm sexy and they want me, but then they don't get dances. is it because i'm white?"
No baby, its because theyr're cheap!;)
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Re: All ethnic dancers please read
Young guys in general hun...some are just cheap or have a hard time saying "no thank you".
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Re: All ethnic dancers please read
BTW what parts of the US does this usually occur?
Being in Ca and also being yes half black among some other races I havent had too much of a problem being hired at the 3 different clubs I worked at when I was dancing.
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Re: All ethnic dancers please read
this is why i love my club! we have quite a mix of girls. it's not a top rank, but there's diversity and it's respected.
i work with two black girls who told me that when they tried to work at top rank clubs they were treated like crap. they weren't even referred to by their names. just 'colored girl' this is terrible! and very stupid!
i think a mix is the best thing. a mix in music, customers and girls. my club pretty much hires someone who looks good and does their job. we have a black dj & a hispanic one (i don't care my dj's race- i just want him to play industrial). we have a black bouncer and a white one. race isn't really important at our club. it's keeping diversity (in girls and music) and people who can do their job well.
i am going to go to the opposite end of the spectrum here. we have black clubs in our town. i think this is stupid too. some black girls have told me white dancers are treated badly there. i went in one. i was called a 'nazi'. excuse me, i'm native american with not an drop of german blood in me, explain this? i do not parade around saluting people. i treat my customers with respect- whether their a rich white businessman, a construction worker, a punk or a gangsta. grant it the conversations may be different, but i really hate being judged by thug types who call me a nazi. this is NOT cool. then they throw the, 'oh it's cause i'm black you wont talk to me' no, i wont talk to you cause you gave me nasty looks, branded me racist (even though i smiled at you when i was on stage) and you're being a plain old jerk! and they call their friends by the n word! do they not respect themselves? then they get all pissy when i point out, 'um excuse but did not not just call your friend the n word? i dont think you're being respectful of yourself or others with this.'
i really believe that if we want this crap to end, both ends of the spectrum need to work on it.
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Re: All ethnic dancers please read
my two cents in a loooooog time. i no longer dance mainly because of the "color" issue. doesn't matter light, dark, long hair, short hair, hip hop music, or heavy metal, thin, or thick, fake or real, extras or not. white men prefer white women. their fantasy from the FIRST time they saw a naked woman was an old playboy, penthouse, etc, top porn stars... ALL ARE WHITE WOMEN, so what do you expect when they come in the clubs and they prefer to dance with the CLOSEST THING TO A centerfold image??!!
I have information about a club in Nassau, Bahamas if anyone is interested. KEEP IN MIND, THE WHITE MEN THAT WOULD COME THERE MAY STILL HAVE THE NERVE TO ASK FOR A BLONDE? lol ....But most men that would go there would EXPECT CARIBBEAN AND AFRICAN/LATIN DANCERS.
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Re: All ethnic dancers please read
Hiya Bambi,
I think White men deserve a little more credit than that...true, most White men's first encounter with beauty may come from Playboy (or their own mothers/sisters/etc...) with a White woman, but some - if not most - learn to appreciate the beauty of women of other ethnicities as well. Ironically, I've heard White men say the same thing about Black and Latina women - that they only want Black & Latin men. Besides, aren't White men the most likely to date women of different ethnicities?
Those two assumptions can hinder an ethnic dancer's ability to make money: the dancer is hesitant to approach the White customer, and vice-versa. Men dig confidence and when it is lacking, they can tell.
Often, I'm hesitant to approach Cowboys even though every single time I have, I done dances for them. And you know what sux? The White guy I don't approach because of my own assumptions is the one that another confident Black dancer takes into VIP and walks out grinning ear to ear with a fistful of funny money. Doh!!
I've only been dancing for about two years, but I have been living for 27 and I have found that most men like variety. Whether that be a variety of hair color, eye color, or skin color, they - like women - like to mix it up a bit..
For new dancers of color: Please don't be discouraged by some of what you read here. When I was preparing to dance, some of the things I read here made me rethink my decision and almost not pursue dancing.
By no means am I saying that the concerns are not valid - they are - or that the advice posted here is not valuable - it is - but don't allow others' experiences to determine your future in dancing. I have been hired at each club I've visited, have had managers visiting from other clubs have invited me to check out their clubs, made plenty of money, and I am NOT a Beyonce'/Halle look-alike (maybe more Nia Long - only shorter, lol). I've also been turned down plenty of times, just like every other dancer.
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Re: All ethnic dancers please read
It's funny that you say that, because I'm about to submit my photos to Playboy Special Editions, since I'm a college student. We as Black women deal with so many barriers and walls to get to a certain position we want to be. I'm not gonna let anyone stand in my way of the things I want to achieve. If I want to be in Playboy, then that's what I'm gonna do!!
BTW, I'll leave the fact I'm an adult film star out of my application!! Ha Ha!!
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Re: All ethnic dancers please read
Quote:
Originally Posted by bambi69
white men prefer white women.
Hi Bambi,
maybe you’ve just experienced the wrong clubs? The girls here make really good money, no more no less than anyone else of any ethnicity.
A few of the girls I work with are African and they BANK big time on white men, older Italians also LOVE them (I think cuz it's so new to them). What ever it is, these girls are doing just as well as anyone else.
Of course, there is a large ignorant population all around but that goes for every race I believe. It just depends on the demographics your working with. I have also experienced racial discrimination... but who cares. Honestly, I don't let other peoples small minds get to me.
Thats my 2cents..
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Re: All ethnic dancers please read
Quote:
By no means am I saying that the concerns are not valid - they are - or that the advice posted here is not valuable - it is - but don't allow others' experiences to determine your future in dancing. I have been hired at each club I've visited, have had managers visiting from other clubs have invited me to check out their clubs, made plenty of money, and I am NOT a Beyonce'/Halle look-alike (maybe more Nia Long - only shorter, lol). I've also been turned down plenty of times, just like every other dancer.
I'm gonna back this one up - not everyone's experiences are the same. I admit I'm a newbie, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, and I'm also in the UK, so maybe that accounts for the difference.
Here, ethnic girls are definitely in demand. In the club I used to waitress at, I think we had maybe four black or mixed-race girls and one Asian girl the whole time I worked there. As a mixed-race waitress I was constantly asked 'Why are the majority of the girls white? Do your managers have a problem with non-white girls?' It's not that, it's just that not many ethnic girls choose to dance.
At the club I 've just started dancing at, there is one black girl and two mixed race girls (myself included). Or at least there were three of us on last night. And at least three different customers said to me, that we three were the only girls they would ask for a dance that night, as we were the only ones that were 'worth it'. I'd also like to point out that all three of these men were of different racial background.
My manager last night also told me that he was glad I'd decided to stay because, in his words, 'it's good to have girls of all different heritages. That way everyone's happy!'
I guess my point is, don't let others bad experiences jade you. Do your research. Before I started dancing I found out as much as I could about the clubs, the dancers, the industry itself and now I'm in a club where I feel happy and secure (and like I will earn a lot of money!;) )
If you are a 'coloured' girl and someone says to you 'Oh, don't dance there, people are terribly racist,' then fine, take that advice and don't dance there. That doesn't mean don't dance at all. Just find somewhere where you feel comfortable. Don't give up!
Because, when I see a beautiful black girl dancing, I feel proud. And I'll support every dancer of colour that I can because there really should be a higher proportion in the industry. In fact, all you girls getting treated like dirt over there? Cross the pond, come dance with me, make a s*itload of money! Maybe the best way to get them racist fat-cats seeing straight is to prove them wrong....
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Re: All ethnic dancers please read
Hmm, I've just read that back to myself and I just want to make a note, becuase I'm not sure if this is the same in America. Over here, 'mixed-race' usually refers to one of mixed heritage - almost always one of these heritages is Black African or Carribean. I don't know why but here you wouldn't refer to someone 1/3 Polish, 1/3 Spanish and 1/3 English as mixed race. I know, I know, they are every bit as mixed race as someone who is half-black and half-spanish say. But somehow its not the same. Unless you got a little bit of black in you somewhere, you ain't mixed race. Not even if you're asian.
Also, Asian generally refers to Indians, Pakistanis etc ie those with darker skin rather than Japanese, Chinese, Korean etc. And 'black' can be used to describe anyone either black or mixed race.
Whew! I think that's it! I don't even know whether I needed to include all that but I just wanted to make myself clear. Although I'm not sure I did.
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Re: All ethnic dancers please read
...hmm....
Is NYC really not receptive to black dancers? Back when i was in Georgia (I grew up there), I worked at a bank and older white/european men frequently said between withdrawals and deposits that I would do well in centerfolds. (Looking back on it, I'm not quite sure how appropriate that was/:O)
But ANYway, all this is making me re-think the whole dancing business....At first, it seemed fun but I don't want to have cotton thrown at me on stage while Farmer Joe in the front row yells "Gow back tuh Afrikuh!"....
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Re: All ethnic dancers please read
Quote:
Originally Posted by dollylocks
But ANYway, all this is making me re-think the whole dancing business....At first, it seemed fun but I don't want to have cotton thrown at me on stage while Farmer Joe in the front row yells "Gow back tuh Afrikuh!"....
why? would that be the end of the world? Farmer Joe could do that do you at the Bank too.
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Re: All ethnic dancers please read
Quote:
Originally Posted by jai
I don't know why but here you wouldn't refer to someone 1/3 Polish, 1/3 Spanish and 1/3 English as mixed race. I know, I know, they are every bit as mixed race as someone who is half-black and half-spanish say. But somehow its not the same.
No it's definitely not the same. By Spanish do you mean Spaniard or Hispanic? If Spaniard, that person is not mixed-race, he is a mixed ethnicity, yet still white.
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Re: All ethnic dancers please read
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Originally Posted by LilSweetVixen
No it's definitely not the same. By Spanish do you mean Spaniard or Hispanic? If Spaniard, that person is not mixed-race, he is a mixed ethnicity, yet still white.
Spaniard. We don't really do Hispanic over here too much. At least, not where I've lived/experienced. Thanks for that, clears things up a little (in my mind, at least!)