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Bad Night
I'm just gonna vent here, so i hope you don't mind!
last night was really BLAH! first, the money was no good. i hustled and hustled and hustled but still....and i couldn't have come across more grabby guys. every guy wanted to know how much for sex, do i do dances in hotels...etc...and if i had one more guy try to kiss me or grab me, i was going to punch them!
my friend monty told me to get the money up front and leave if they cause probs. if i take their shit, they'll keep coming back and nice men will not come. by getting rid of the losers, it'll make room for the good men.
i don't know how much that can work...if not EVERY girl does it...
grrr! i'm just so angry because EVERY man last night made me sick. they were the type of men i wouldn't even look at on the street: SCUM.
where did our good guys go?? :o
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Re: Bad Night
I know exactly how you feel!! When I have nights like that I go home with such a negative opinion of guys...after encountering assholes all night I start to think all guys are scumbags. :P All I can say is, hang in there, there ARE some nice ones out there, but i dont know where they are hiding... :-/
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Re: Bad Night
Good guys are out there...but I'll admit that they seem to be less common than the scummy version.
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Re: Bad Night
The "bad" guys usually don't bother me anywhere near as much as the dressing room drama and behind-the-scenes politics. Those bring me down more than anything, and it is way too easy to get sucked in. Especially for a paranoid and high-strung person such as myself....
Where the guys are concerned, I know that I do not have to let them near for more than 5 seconds of my life if I choose. My coworkers are another story altogether.
McCain
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Re: Bad Night
Good guys are out there......... but I have finally narrowed it down to why there are very few nice guys left.Most might not agree with me on this, but I put the blame on the dancers.....NOT ALL but some and I will tell you why.
I used to be a nice guy.I would always get "you're a dancers dream customer".Why? because I woud'nt touch them unless they initiated it, I would pay the average husller more than I should have, and most importantly I would treat the dancer with respect.All this made it worse and worse for me.I would get huslled non stop by dancers,I got treated like s*%t most of the time, lied to and in the end get the worst dances imaginable.So this kept on happennig and I could'nt figure out why.Then I finally changed. I got such a bad taste in my mouth from some of these dancers and their ethics, I decided that you can not be a nice guy in these envirements.These girls proved to me that even though I am a nice guy looking to spend money and enjoy what these fine establishments have to offer, I would still get terrible dances and treated like s*%t.
In conclusion, it is these type of the dancers that have ruined it for rest. Most guys are treating these girls with the same respect they get......which is little or none at all. In addition if the customers show no confidence in dealing with the dancers they'll get raped by the dancers think it's the customers first barbecue , so "let's milk him!".I would love to write a "Customers Guidlines To Getting Good Dances" but if I was a dancer I would probably strive on the new and gullable customer.
For me, however I unfortunatly had no choice but to change my attitude concerning these matters. I do not know if it was for the better or worse but sometimes I miss those ignorant days of being seated right beside the doorman in the vip getting s*%t dances by a husller named "Star" while watching the more interesting dance from the girl across from us.Don't get me wrong, I still go to the vip's but I've learned alot since then and unfortunatly it was the hard way.At present I finally met one dancer out of God knows how many that is sincere and overall cool to hang out with.We had a great time together inside and outside the club she works at. It's too bad I purposly will never call her back because I, (as well as the many others that agree with me), know better than that. In the end life goes on & on & on.
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Re: Bad Night
If you have such a bad opinion of dancers, what in the bloody hell are you doing on this site?
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Re: Bad Night
i was thinking much the same thing, kermit.
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Re: Bad Night
Exactly, why are you here, and also, why are you telling us tha you hang out with a dancer inside and outside the club, most professional dancers wouldn't mix business and personal life. And if she is so cool as you claimed, then why aren't you calling her back? I think you're just saying this to brag about what a cool guy you are!
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"At present I finally met one dancer out of God knows how many that is sincere and overall cool to hang out with.We had a great time together inside and outside the club she works at. It's too bad I purposly will never call her back because I, (as well as the many others that agree with me), know better than that. In the end life goes on & on & on. "
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Re: Bad Night
I have to give a little support to LV here - I have known plenty of nice guys who have been taken advantage of by dancers and driven out of the clubs because they had such a bad experience - they would get hustled for money, cars, rent, with the promise of friendship and wind up getting screwed over. I know one guy who had a dancer over to his house and she stole $2K cash from him and split. So it's understandable how a guy could be bitter about this.
Unfortunately, there will always be dancers that pull this kind of crap, but the majority that I know and work with are straightforward and honest about their job and don't try to lead guys on or try to get their money in any other way than by dancing for them.
I too have those nights where every guy in the club is a jerk, but fortunately I still run in to plenty of nice guys and I try to treat them as well as possible. I give them the best dances, play their requests when I'm on stage, and try to make sure they are having a good time. They don't make me feel used and I try to make sure they don't feel used either - I also always thank them for being generous with me.
When I run into the jerks, I just try to remember that they're only acting in the way they feel is appropriate and not to take it personally.
So, don't jump on a guy for being a little gunshy after experiencing a baptism by fire at the clubs. It's not like us dancers didn't learn by trial and error either.
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Re: Bad Night
not to stir up trouble, but LVcoz sounds like a very seasoned 'customer' of big city clubs. I have to agree that there seems to be a disturbing trend lately where reduced earnings has prompted some girls to play every angle to 'rip off' customers for every dollar they can i.e making mileage promises they don't deliver, mixing inside the club attention (= mucho $$$$ spent) with promises of after hours possibilities etc. This sort of devious marketing might help earnings in in the very short term, but afterwards it gives customers a feeling that they have been 'had' such that many won't be back and others like LVcoz will adopt a similar but reverse attitude of trying to get the most attention/mileage possible for the least amount of money spent.
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Re: Bad Night
You have to be realistic about what to expect when you go into a club. Treating dancers with respect is important but it's also important to keep your wits about you and use your head.
There are women who will take advantage of a "nice guy" and play on his emotions but, you know what, this is all part of the game.
Women dance to pay the bills, pure and simple, any customer who starts thinking otherwise is heading for trouble. This doesn't mean it's ALL about how much you spend on a dancer.
Dancers like having a "nice guy" that they can count on not to be rude, grabby or insulting, even if he doesn't always spend a lot of money on them. The key, as the nice guy customer, is to respect the dancer's need to earn and not try to monopolize her time when the club is busy.
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Re: Bad Night
true, but i've found that most customers are also not aware that a harder sell is necessary these days because of it being so much more difficult to make money. i'm surprised how many customers assume that all dancers are making gobs of money hand over fist, and they have little or no awareness of the changes in the industry having brought income levels down. they also tend to be unaware of club rules for dancers that require them to sell merchandise/drinks or foreit the money from unsold items out of their own income. i can understand how that kind of ignorance can make customers upset about pushiness... if they believe a dancer's income level doesn't justify a hard sell, of course they'll assume the hard sell is unnecessary.
but, many dancers are so pushy and deceitful that whether or not a customer is aware of how difficult it has become for dancers to make money, their becoming upset by these tactics is justifiable. these kinds of tactics irk me as they do change the attitude of customers towards ALL dancers even though ALL dancers aren't deserving of it.
however, it's still stereotypically judgemental to approach all dancers with a negative attitude no matter how many times a customer has been burned. logically, a person who comes in contact with low-life ghetto thug type african americans far more then any other type still knows that ALL african americans can't be tucked in the same pigeon hole, and those that do pigeon hole all african americans that way are scorned as bigots... so why does it seem logical for customers to do that same kind of pigeon holing when it comes to dancers? i can understand that the more dancers a customer comes into contact with that justify a negative attitude as opposed to the ones that don't, the more wary that customer will tend to be. but logically, EVERY dancer shouldn't be approached as though she has a "Pushy Thieving Bitch" sign on her forehead anymore then every african american should be approached with a "Low-Life Ghetto Thug" sign on theirs. until the customer can logically justify each individual dancer's attitude, they should still be approached with curtesy, although a certain amount of wariness is understandable. there's a big difference between approaching dancers with caution as opposed to approaching dancers with an automatic negative attitude... those customers with the automatic negative attitude are going to be treated as jerks by ALL dancers, sweet and nasty alike... which is exactly what bigots deserve.
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Re: Bad Night
>"i'm surprised how many customers assume that all dancers are making gobs of money hand over fist, and they have little or no awareness of the changes in the industry having brought income levels down"<
Indeed that's an issue. However, not enough dancers are making the same realization about the customers.
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I have the best idea
If you don't want to deal with dancers, go to a pub. Meet women in more traditional venues who won't (unless they are very unusual) offer to take their clothes off and writhe for $20.00.
If however you are one of the many men who go into strip clubs because of the women and not just for the tacky decor and expensive drinks get used to the fact that these women are making a living and that in order to do that they have to hustle. You did not detail further how these dancers treated you badly (outside of giving you low contact dances, which very few women here will pity you for).
Luck to you.
Jenny
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Re: Bad Night
>"i'm surprised how many customers assume that all dancers are making gobs of money hand over fist, and they have little or no awareness of the changes in the industry having brought income levels down"<
Indeed that's an issue. However, not enough dancers are making the same realization about the customers.
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oh, i think dancers are aware that the economy in general has gone down and everyone is more tight fisted then they had been. however, a customer entering the club should expect to be hit with a sales pitch, and if they haven't any money to spend, they shouldn't be there. it's certainly not our job to determine who has more expendable income in order to preserve it for the customer. a club isn't a department store where it's ok to just "browse"... even in the department store, a customer would still expect to be approached for a sale with the understanding that this is the salesperson's job... why would this not be so for dancers?
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Re: Bad Night
Oh no; I'm not arguing your point.
I'm simply making light of the fact that one coincides with the other.
There is money there; however the name of the game is finding balance, between "prying", and "selling".
I don't agree with it, but there will be an increasing amount of "browsing".
Customers are becoming quite particular on whom they spend their money.
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Re: Bad Night
Tre makes a very accurate (but difficult to accept) point that "Customers are becoming quite particular on whom they spend their money". In other industries, when business conditions are slow, management decides to lay off some workers in order to provide a continuing paycheck for other workers and to maintain the financial health of the business so that one day when things get better economically the laid off workers will again have jobs. And the workers that mainstream industry lays off first are the marginal producers, workers with attitude and attendance problems etc, so that the layoffs actually result in the company offering a better product!
But the dance club industry does not do this. Instead, the dance club industry throws all of its "workers" into the ring to compete with each other for whatever scraps are available. Instead of "improving the product", these conditions encourage many negative attributes like the devious business practices discussed in previous posts. a higher and higher sleaze factor etc. These in turn result in customer complaints, which reduces the available scraps even further, not to mention the possibility of pushing local politicians and cops into action. All in all, these conditions negatively impact the dancing industry in general, and will leave behind permanent negative changes when the economy finally does improve again.
While I doubt few dancers would agree, IMHO the smartest thing that a clubowner could do is to sit down with all his dancers, face the fact that there just arent' enough customers spending enough money anymore to support the amount of dancers the club has, and rather than see all dancers incomes suffer (thus creating conditions leading to deceptive business practices, higher sleaze factor etc. followed by departing customers and new laws or busts) the owner should just confront those dancers who are "marginal" in regard to appearance, work ethic, attitude and say "sorry, girls, but I have to let you go" the same way a conventional business owner would under similar conditions.
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Re: Bad Night
yep, too true.
have you ever read Debt of Honor by Tom Clancy? interesting explaination in there about the economy being established by buyer perception and not actual lack or availability of money. it's a good read, although a bit heavy on military jargon.
on a side note... coming to the end of the story, i wondered if al Qaeda got the idea of crashing planes into buildings from this book, since the final chapter describes a disgruntled anti-America nutcase crashing a plane into the White House in an attempt to topple the U.S. as a world power. same thing with somewhat similar sabotage of the American economy as described in the story and attempted by al Qaeda.
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Re: Bad Night
Excellent post Melonie, you described the way that I tend to view most of the dancers I see today to the T.
I want to spend; it has become increasingly difficult to find enjoyable dancers to choose to spend it with.
Alanna, while Tom does a great job in articulating the burgeoning economy the reality is that those of us that have been around for a while see the tides before they turn and during a down economy if you can be liquid you can do very, very well as you are in a position to purchase assets during advantageous market conditions where profit is readily assured.
To those dancers that are angered by my posts please do not be, and I am sure that someone is going to say that I am pompous or arrogant or whatever and you are probably right but the honest truth is that- girls lately you are not approaching the customer (me) in this case with the right approach. This is not only my opinion but also that of my peers as many of my friends who are also large spenders will not go to the clubs anymore.
We are not asking for (and never have) high contact dances or some sleazy nonsense, just time, respect, attention, and entertainment.
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Re: Bad Night
First I would like to appologize if I affended anyone from my post on Nov.15.I respect dancers and a dancer's time spent with me.I agree with Alanna..."a customer entering the club should expect to be hit with a sales pitch, and if they haven't any money to spend, they shouldn't be there......a club isn't a department store where it's ok to just browse". I usually give my colleages crap for not getting dances when they've spent to much time with a dancer and definately when they have said "no thanks" to almost every girl in the club.I know my obligations as a customer, so if I affended any members let me make it clear that my experiences with dancers (good and bad) have made me a better judge of character for which I try to avoid dancers that would discourage my evening , or possibly my trip.Let's face it,if a dancer could be the best judge of character then they would possibly never have a bad night. I understand times are slow and if a dancer needs to be more pushy, so be it.However, from my experience most nice and shy guys need more time spent with them to feel more comfortable rather than the customer who is just looking for an agressive dance.Sometimes there are customers that are just pricks saying "no thanks" to all the dancers waiting for the dancer that is going to give them everything for nothing.So as for my Nov.15 post, it does'nt cause me to be bitter against dancers.I love going out with my friend to enjoy these clubs.I encourage it. However, I am saying it's a two way street between customers and dancers. People should respect those that show respect on to them.
One more thing, I may have affended Desiree and I think she took my Nov.15 post the wrong way.I agree with her..."most professional dancers wouldn't mix business and personal life. And if she is so cool as you claimed, then why aren't you calling her back? I think you're just saying this to brag about what a cool guy you are!".I don't think I'm cool, but I agree with the ethics of you're point. I want to explain by not calling her back, she nor I will have any contact outside the club..I thought this was an important rule between customers and dancers.I would love to see again her but for most professionals that is a no no.So I respect that.Most men would abuse that privleage.I choose not to.I would love to talk to her again, we had a great time together but would you like customers calling you for personal reasons.I included that in my old post to show that just because a dancer gives you her number because you spent a few bucks or you're in town for a few days, it does not give you the right to abuse that privleage, so in the end mabye some people think I am being a prick but I thought what I did was the right thing to do.She has my number and one day I will call or leave her a message to see how she is doing.Put it this way, I am sure she gives or gets asked for her number every day by customers, so I should be the one to respect that and not be the one to abuse it.
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Re: Bad Night
LVcoz and Q and all the other customers here,
I hate to Pop you bubbles but I'm afraid I'm going to have to be the bearer of some troubleing news for all of you. If a dancer gives you her number or E mail address or claims she wants tto go out with you, more likely that not it is pure business on the dancers side. You may not realize it because what are job is as a good dancer is to sell you a fantasy. Some of you guys not only buy the fantasy but also loose full site of reality. Please, guys, you might be great people but us dancers are just doing our jobs.
Candice
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Re: Bad Night
Hiya, Panda. Sorry I haven't been around much lately. Busy, busy, busy lately.
Sorry 'bout the bad night. We've ALL had 'em, and sometimes they seem to come in bunches. Sometimes the club clientile shifts and for whatever reason all the good customers start going somewhere else. Also, I've noticed that around the holidays, the guys I think of as really good customers (married, white-collar types who tip a lot) seem to go into hibernation. (They're spending all their spare cash at Toys-R-Us!!!).
Anyway, suck it in, toss the chest out, and dance your ass off!!! It'll turn around again.
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Re: Bad Night
I totally agree with Candice's point that dancers actually offering or dropping strong hints of hooking up with customers after hours is almost always a business move aimed at keeping a customer interested and spending more money. This is exactly the type of deceptive business practice I was commenting about earlier. In the end, the customer will figure out he was being "had", he will more likely than not stop patronizing the club, or at the very least will adopt a different attitude i.e. expecting more than implied promises from dancers in exchange for spending money on private dances. These negative changes to both the dancers and the customers will not go away if and when economic conditions get better
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Re: Bad Night
OK, now I have a question for Candice, Melonie or whatever other dancer wants to answer me (except Alanna, I dont like you):
This one dancer, actually calls me, emails me, gave me her home # and we actually go out to dinner once a month or so and hang out. It is a fun time, nothing serious at all. But we do hang out and enjoy each other's company as it is a totally different atmosphere than hanging out in a club. Is she playing me too or what???
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Re: Bad Night
I cannot speak for any other girls, only myself. When I first started dancing, I did occasionally indulge in activities with a very few select customers - dinner, lunch, drinks, etc. And it was not meant as a ploy to continue garnering money from them - there are a million other ways to do that, most being much more effective. It was something I did because it was fun, these were men with whom I felt comfortable, and - as a stripper with odd hours - I didn't get the chance to meet very many people outside of work. The caveat to it, though, is that I only ended up dating (then cohabitating) with one fo these men, and that went horribly awry.
I would take it all at face value - sounds to me like this girl is comfortable with you and is enjoying some time out on the town. In the end, if for some reason that is not the case, are you going to be all that upset about it? Sounds to me like you have been enjoying the companionship as well, for whatever purposes it may be serving. Continue having fun, and remember that strippers need non-work fun too!
McCain