Re: Too many stupid rules!
#1 - where credit card processing fees are concerned, there is such a thing as a "chargeback" which costs the merchant a whole lot more money than the guy charged to his credit card in the first place. This is probably the reason that the club wants to "screen" credit card customers who aren't willing to spend big bucks, since their $10 funny money purchase could wind up costing the club $20+ if a "chargeback" results.
#2 it is legal for waitresses to be tipped on record. But under many state (and territorial) laws it is NOT legal for a dancer to directly receive payment from a customer. This is the reason that the record must show a champagne purchase or something other than a direct gratuity to a dancer. There is also a pretty strong incentive for the club to see that the charges are listed this way, since the club is not legally entitled to take a percentage of dancer's tip money but they are legally entitled to take a big percentage of a champagne purchase.
#3 - this is stupid, but indicates that the club is keeping very accurate records (including a very accurate report of your income which they can later report on a 1099 and claim themselves as a business expense). The fact that you are earning less money may not also mean that the club is earning less money after all is said and done tax wise.
#4 - again this new 3 minutes to get ready rule is probably based on "equal treatment under the law" which is an outgrowth of the dancers as employees trend. The only way the club chain can avoid a potential labor beef with a particular dancer is if it posts clear rules that apply equally to all dancers under all circumstances. Again, the club is not interested in how much money YOU might lose - they're concerned about how much money THEY might lose in a legal settlement.
#5 - the posted rules and fines are analogous to posted employee regulations and posted disciplinary policy if those regulations are not followed - another CYA measure by the club with labor laws and legal settlements in mind.
I really don't think that these changes are the result of a single club manager and a single dancer. I would sooner think that the manager raised questions which the corporation put to it's legal counsel.
Whether or not your Diva's develops a competitive problem with surrounding clubs as a result of these published policies, and whether or not your Diva's develops problems retaining good dancers remains to be seen. Again, in the world of corporate clubs, tighter taxes, labor beefs etc. there can be a world of difference between a club that is profitable for the dancers and a club that is profitable for the clubowners.
This entire trend was actually set in motion by the very vocal protests of California dancers a couple of years back, followed by passage of a California 'dancers as employees" law. The changes in corporate club chain policies after passage of this law is a pretty good indication that the IRS is taking a close look at the strip club industry in California as well as other states and territories.
Re: Too many stupid rules!
1. The reason this rule came about was because a few customers were getting cc money over the bar to tip girls on the floor without going upstairs where the club gets a bigger cut. We're not talking $10, we're talking hundreds. Management has actually said that they want us to sell the champagne. If guys want to get $50 over the bar and spend it on one lapdance and stage tips, that is still allowed. Also if a group of guys want to get funny money and they don't have girls sitting with them, it is still allowed. The only time it's not allowed is when one guy is sitting with one girl downstairs rather than buying champagne upstairs. For every cc transaction a guy makes, he has to fill out and sign a lengthy form with his cc and ID photocopied in color on the back, on top of the cc tab. I'm willing to bet that drastically reduces the amount of chargebacks.
2. Management has specifically said that rule is in place to 'encourage' us to upsell the champagne. Customers used to be allowed to put whatever money they wanted on credit card upstairs, and some girls were getting up to $1000 for one half-hour VIP. Management said if girls could get guys to spend that kind of money upstairs, they would be spending some of it on champagne. It has nothing to do with legalities.
3. Incredibly stupid. Remember the lenghty form I mentioned in #1? It has to be done twice for VIP, one for the bar's portion and one for the dancer's. Every time the guy renews, he has to go through the whole thing again. On top of that, the VIP waitress has to fill out a bunch of forms and staple and copy and file, before she can get our drinks. All paperwork is done by hand so everything is REALLY slooooooooow. There is always only one VIP waitress, even on busy nights, so the busier we are, the longer it takes. I see guys all the time waiting literally for hours to go upstairs with a girl because of this. These guys don't go with someone else, because the other girls are usually busy too or they don't want anyone else. If the club could make the VIP process more efficient, we could get back on the floor quicker and get those guys waiting on us, rather than watch them walk out the door disappointed. How can the club be making more money if half their customers don't even get the chance to spend it? More often than not when guys walk in the club, there are no girls on the floor and many of them leave because they can't get anything but a stageshow. Accurate records is one thing, but being so thorough you limit or reduce earnings potential, is another.
4. From what I gather, this club is run entirely differently from the other Divas clubs in regards to how the girls are handled, simply because it is in Latin America and the manager and half the dancers are not American. Different rules apply here. That said, I am positive this has nothing to do with any big corporate decision or employment trends. Rather, in Latin America, apparently when one incident occurs, it usually results in a rule being set to prevent that incident happening again, but most people it affects really don't know why it was set and it usually creates more problems than it solves. Another thing is that the people have no concept of bending rules to suit certain situations when it would clearly be warranted in American business mentalities. For example, it would probably be best to allow a good regular to have his dance just before the girl is supposed to be on stage when he was just about to leave and didn't have time to wait for her to finish her set, and he'd paid for two dances but only got one before the pre-set song. American managers would allow that, but not here.
5. They have always had lots of rules and stuff posted for the girls - it's the way the manager likes to do things at this club. Again, it's THIS manager's way of doing things. They are very quick to say we are all independent contractors, so the whole employee/labor law thing is out the window there.
From what I see these things have more to do with personal preference on the manager's part and less to do with legal issues. As I said earlier, it is common down here for managers to set up new rules based on one incident, in order to prevent that from happening again, even if said incident happened only once in a year, and even if the perpetrator only did it once in several years. Then once it's in place, it will be so strictly enforced that it will create a whole new set of problems that will likely trigger more rules and/or amendments to the first one, making things even more complicated. I have witnessed this over and over in many other businesses, so it is obviously a cultural thing.
Several girls already left Divas for the new club, and they haven't come back. Several others have left for other clubs. Several travellers have left early recently saying they will never be back. I see that as a sign of competitive problems. Apparently the owner does as well, because he just set a new rule that if any Divas girl goes to the new club, she will have to pay a $300 fine if she wants to come back to Divas. He also made all the waitresses and bartenders sign contracts saying they would only work for Divas, and if they are caught moonlighting at the new club, they will be fired with no chance of being rehired. Looks like somebody scrambling to keep what dancers and employees he has left.
I am quite aware that a profitable club and one that is profitable for dancers aren't necessarily the same, but in a club where they take a cut of everything dancers sell, I should think that they would want to make it as easy as possible for dancers to sell, because the more the dancers make, the more the club makes. I would also think they'd want to do what they can to keep good dancers because in an area like this, if they keep losing girls they're going to have a much harder time replacing them and keeping the numbers up.
Re: Too many stupid rules!
I think if they continue to lose girls and the customers dont come back due to haveing to wait so long for the girl they eant they will change back, if they do not you will have to consider what you want to do,do give it some time though because things have changed in places I have been and I thought oh my god I want to leave this isnt going to be any good and everything turned out to be just fine,if you are worried about the vip thing explain to your regulars about it and maybe they will give you extra for that 30 minutes more you are up there and not being payed.
Re: Too many stupid rules!
Bridgette, I stand corrected. Under these circumstances, my advice would be to get the hell out of there and down to the new club before all of their available openings are filled and you CAN'T make the move. Since the local Diva's manager has this kind of power, he's just going to keep it up until things get so bad that the owners either replace him eventually or the club mutates into an environment that no classy dancer would want to work in. In the meantime maximize your earnings and minimize your stress level at the new club down the road!
Re: Too many stupid rules!
Everyone's had to work with stupid club rules. I've had to deal with a no wearing a watch rule, taking stage tips only by hand (buz-kill), and even one club that prohibited BJs (just kidding)
But when they start messing with your money like they're doing with you; than it's not "stupid club rules" it's simply club greed!
Speek with the GM, or owner if possible, let him know exactly why you're leaving and tell him you'd consider returning when you find out that they've changed policy to benefit both club and dancers.
Re: Too many stupid rules!
Yikes, I'm sorry about your frustrations. I dont see why clubs dont get it that the ladies are the ones who bring people in, treating them like gold makes a huge difference.
Probably the nastiest rule I've ever dealt with was at a club that charged you $2 per minute you were late. There was a LARGE digital clock on the bar and they were not kidding here. Accidents on the highway, 5 ft of snow? They didnt care, pay up please.
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and even one club that prohibited BJs
:P ;D Hee!
Jane
Re: Too many stupid rules!
hey Bridgette! have you ever seen any of the IWA Puerto Rico wrestlers come into your club? I'm a big wrestling fan
Re: Too many stupid rules!
I don't know of any wrestlers coming in as customers, but we have some of the female wrestlers working as dancers. One works full time at Divas, and the other two work part time sporadically. It's really funny to see those girls and their antics on TV after working with them in the club. ;D
Back on topic, I think I'm going to go for a visit to the other club, not to work but just check it out. See if they have good business. I'm also going to New York to check out the new Penthouse club and maybe Scores and visit a friend of mine who's just moving back there. If I see I can make good money in NYC / Jersey, I might just move there! I'm used to working in bigger clubs anyway and this small club crapola might be getting to be more bs than it's worth.
On the upside, I'm just getting started buying stripper clothes wholesale so I can begin selling to the girls - there are NO decent outfit stores here and NO regular outfit ladies coming through, so there's a definite market and need. This should help me keep my earnings up as well as avoid being too reliant on one source of income.
Re: Too many stupid rules!
When the transaction is complete, the payment should start. I too have heard of this crap. It is wrong.
And as far as Kickbacks/chargebacks, they are rampant at this time. So it now takes longer to run a cc. They can tell if the cc has been used by another or has declined, even how much is available on the cc, but the actual 'clearing' of the card takes around 10 minutes, sometimes they put you on hold...i hang up and call back..it will go faster. (whoever runs the cc's at the club).
Aside from cc's, stupid rules inside the club. I don't think i would want to stay, unless a few matters change for you. Tips came as cash, covered my ass got a reciept.
Pamela
Re: Too many stupid rules!
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Everyone's had to work with stupid club rules. I've had to deal with a no wearing a watch rule, taking stage tips only by hand (buz-kill), and even one club that prohibited BJs (just kidding)
I've actually had that rule several times. It was presented to me like this.... we want the customers to to be not aware of time, like in a casino- they are never clocks in casinos,
so when a dancer looks at her watch it takes the customer out of the "timeless" fantasy so to speak ,and back into the reality of the fact that he just spent 1/4 his paycheck in less that two hours ;D
All the clubs that I had a no watch rule there was also a no religious jewelry rule too. So that if a potential marathon customer takes a likening to you from across the room and he has issues with religion he won't be turned off.
I get these kinds of rules, I even understand house fee's- but fines-Please ! I never got fined for anything in any of the clubs I worked, but I can tell you some club tried to fine me after I paid a house fee- I'd quit on the
spot.
[bye]
On funny money- I love it. [wiggle]
I used to save it all month and cash it in all at once then buy savings bonds- my first investments.
Alot of us used to do that, and when the economy slipped the club
had problems later with their books- we're talking 15+ dancers all saving their money and cashing it out in bulk- I think the club pays their fee's on the funny money immediately, but then waits like 90 days to get paid on the sale.
....something like that- anyway they made a policy that if you want your money cashed you had to do it the same night.
Re: Too many stupid rules!
This business is a tough one nowadays. GC's are a type of business that have a lot of chargebacks and buyers remorse from guys feeling they have been overcharged. Too many chargebacks and any business can lose their merchant acct.
Plus, business is slower everywhere and since you are in a tourist area,I would bet that customer counts and customer spending are down. The Champagne room sales are probably down, and since they are in a tourist area feel that they should have customers blowing more money.
In Houston one of the top clubs started cracking down on girls doing their extras in corner booths instead of the champagne room which costs $120 to go in, and a guy with a flashlight walks around warning girls that if they don't go in the Champagne room either the customer or girl will have to pay the club $120.
Of course these clubs are greedy and want maximum profits but they are guys and know what guys want and it's not champagne.
Plus Texas clubs as you know have many more girls working I am sure than in San Juan, and even with the low stage fees big Texas clubs clear $11,000 or more per week just off of stage fees. Divas isn't making that and when profits decline, businesses and even dancers get more aggressive in order to maximize income.
My gripe is that large clubs should hold dancer meetings as Divas in G string did in Philly on HBO and discuss legal issues they are facing and problems with profits or their chargeback rates and work out a plan with dancer input that both sides can live with.
In St. James in H-town anyone with 8 or more dances on a tab must have a manager come to the table and make sure the customer is ok with the amount and put his signature on the tab.
Is there a GM or someone there you can talk to point blank and ask if they have had pressure from their merchant account holder to not have any more chargebacks and what the problem is with champagne sales? Or is he an asshole who doesn't discuss business with dancers?
You're in a tough position there because I am sure tourists don't always have the cash they anticipate spending as local guys do, especially when out of the country, US territory or not. And the club is fronting you the tab money even though they are taking a percentage from your dance tickets to cover their costs and taxes on the money which they are responsible for and not the dancer.
A drop in business and threats from their merchant account bank I am sure is behind this. High end clubs have so much overhead trying to maintain a fancy building and it's interior plus legal fees that are escalating regularly and more girls wanting to dance where their is ' potential ' for higher earnings that they can force dancers to squeeze the guys for more money knowing that if you don't like it, other girls are more than happy to replace you.
The ol' what's in it for me has cropped up. When your customer wants to put $150 on a tab for you, and the club has to front you the money before they are paid from their bank even though they get a small percentage to cover their costs feel that you guys are making all the money and not them.
In big city clubs they just hire more girls and if 20 more girls on average work per day than in the past at an average house fee of $30, they have made up for 5 lost Champagne room sales. But the girls have more competition for a smaller and lesser spending customer base which means less earnings per dancer. And I am sure you did not move to San Juan to deal with the same ol' crap you dealt with in the continental US. :-/
How is the new clubs business? Is it worth leaving Diva's for?
Re: Too many stupid rules!
You've brought up alot of good points.
The club did switch processing companies 2-3 months ago so they could take ATH (PR equivelant to ATM) cards as well as credit cards, and so they could put San Juan Partners on their cc bills instead of Divas. However, all the cc billing/forms/tipping regulations existed at Divas since I came here, so they have nothing to do with the new processing accounts. The only thing that has changed is that about 1 month ago they started the new 'no funny money on the floor' rule. We do have meetings, but they amount to nothing more than the owner and manager reading off the rules to us AGAIN, and then nodding ever so thoughtfully as we voice our concerns. When questioned about the new funny money thing, they simply said that if customers would spend that kind of money on us, the club 'deserved' some too and the guys would buy champagne upstairs.
The VIP processing has always taken too long, but not long after I arrived they added more to the waitresses' behind the bar procedures making it take even longer. I tolerated all this up to now because I was making good money, more than what I'd made in the states for a couple years. But with the new rule against getting funny money on the floor and the one about no laps just before your stage, as well as a few others they've added to the list recently, it's getting harder and harder to tolerate. They're simply making it more and more difficult to make money, keep customers happy, etc. At the most recent meeting I brought up the issue about taking 20-30 minutes to start a VIP, and even though I and a couple other girls politely repeated the questions and focused on the issue until they HAD to give us an answer, all we got was 'we can't start time or serve drinks until we know we're getting paid, and sometimes the cc machine takes a few minutes to dial out'. At that point I dropped it because I knew we were going nowhere. I have worked in many clubs and have NEVER experienced such slooooooooow service and bullishness on 'procedure'. I could also point out that there are things that this manager loves to harp on and on about, and is overly strict on, but when anyone brings up issues like productivity and efficiency, it falls on deaf ears.
Furthermore, when the new club opened up, the owner of that club managed to woo away the GM of Divas, leaving us with only the bouncer-turned-shift manager and his lapdog 'assistant'. Seriously, the manager we have now was a bouncer for years at various nightclubs, then for a couple years at Divas before being hired as shift manager. Of course his mentality is still that of bouncer, so now we have an over-eager bouncer with the title of boss, and I'm sure you can all imagine what that's like. I'm being very nice when I say he's nothing more than a bouncer who also does paperwork, and has a massive ego problem.
There have been a few other problems not involving dancers since the GM left, the biggest I know of being that the remaining bouncer-boss and his lapdog have started scheduling their waitress girlfriends on the best VIP shifts, and have together tried to accuse another waitress who's been working there WAY longer than their gf's of stealing with another waitress who was caught and fired - trying to get the owner to fire the other waitress as well because she is the only other VIP waitress.
And there's more, but I'm tired of writing about it now. The owner comes in for a few days once a month, so he is for the most part unaware of most of the problems. Things were much smoother and tolerable before the GM left, but now it's steadily becoming a nightmare. I'm really remembering why I have always preferred larger clubs, because even if all this bs was going on, I generally either didn't know about it or it was so insignificant in the grand scheme it didn't bother me. In a small club, everyone knows everyone and everything which is annoying enough, but add a manager like we have here who can easily get way out of control, and it's potentially unbearable.
The only thing that keeps me from packing up tomorrow is I really love living here and I am still making money. I can stick it out a few more weeks and see how it goes, but my patience has worn VERY thin with these people.
Re: Too many stupid rules!
You know Divas had NO competition whatsoever before that new club opened. Now they're going beserk trying to retain whatever income they can muster thanks to the dancer (and possibly client) exodus. From what I've read even travelers are willing to avoid Divas. I read on Stripclublist.com that the other club have dancers from the States so it's obvious that word has spread quite fast :o
Re: Too many stupid rules!
Bridgette,
In a similar situation I once went to check out the competitor club (didn't audition or anything) and it got back to the first club and they fired me.
So I would be careful about that. You want to make an informed decision (ie, find out exactly what their prices are and how much business they get, drive by and see how full their parking lot is) before you risk your position at Diva's.
OTOH, if you have options (other club, ny, etc) why not write a letter to the owner with these concerns and get all the girls to sign it?
Lena