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Lookin for love... In all the wrong places
Can anyone offer suggestions.
I have been spending more and more time with a young stripper, she is 25, I am 45, outside of her job. We have been having lunches together, taking drives, walking in parks. We enjoy each others company and we talk a lot, both on the phone, and in person. We have become close friends, no sex. I am not able to initiate contact with her, as her phone does not work, so she has to call me. I really am enjoying her attention, and am wary of rocking the boat by following my instincts and making a pass at her. I have had many opportunities, but I value the friendship too much so I behave and choose to let whatever happens just unfold naturally.
The problem I am having is attending her work. She likes me to come in and spend at least one night a week with her, for a couple hours before closing. Now I have been a regular of hers for 6 months, and I don't mind continuing the weekly donations to her income. I am however confused by her sexual lap dance side, and the non-sexual real world friendship that I value and want to continue. I seem to be caught in quandary. I would marry this girl tomorrow, but I don't want to tell her I don't want lap dances anymore, as I'm afraid she will walk away.
Please give me some advise
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Re: Lookin for love... In all the wrong places
Thanks,
You both confirmed my thoughts. I am battling with a burst of denial, and its good to hear it from somebody other than my own mind.
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Re: Lookin for love... In all the wrong places
Big_gun, I have to agree with the others. It seems you care for this woman. If that’s so, it’s time to tell her and deal with her reaction. She may reject you (that's life and not a reflection on you) or she may feel the same way (good for both of you).
If it were me, I would probably also stop seeing her at the club. I mean if she is interested in an outside relationship, I don't think continuing as a customer is necessary, and if she doesn't care for you romantically, then going to see her week after week isn't good for your psyche IMO.
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Re: Lookin for love... In all the wrong places
Big gun, if her phone doesn't work then why don't you get her a cell phone? Is it possible there's something she doesn't want you to know?
What do you mean you don't want lap dances anymore? Does that mean you don't want her giving lap dances to anyone anymore or you want to take it to the next level?
Of all the times you've talked to her have you told her how you felt and what you want to become of your relationship? You need to find her reaction.
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Re: Lookin for love... In all the wrong places
this happens alot - how could her phone not work, thats a ruse my friend. Someone may just answer the phone and disrupt her earning potential with you.
you are a customer. cest soop cest toot. (thats it thats all)
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Re: Lookin for love... In all the wrong places
Geez guys, I wish I'd have found these sites to get some help, before I (for the most part) ended by own very long 4+ year relationship with my former ATF. Maybe things would've turned out better. Or you could saved me a horrific amount of heartache with my own ATF.
The trouble is, it was so long you'd be asking for Cliff(sp) notes.
Oh well...
-Sad-
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Re: Lookin for love... In all the wrong places
Oh I'm sorry Big-gun. I agree with the other posts, from my own experience with it.
And one other note about what I spoke of before. It's not like my friends didn't warn me about a lot of things before. But I never totally trusted them, because often they would do the "She's a dancer" taunt, so I didn't totally trust them as much as a stripper who is being direct or an SCJ-er who'd been through it. Although that's true and there are certainly a lot of scams, it was a long relationship and I did not want that discounted with a vague occupation slur, psychiatric assessment or other unpleasant comments about her.
BG, be careful!
-Sad-
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Re: Lookin for love... In all the wrong places
All of your comments are good. Thank you.
Now let me unfold a little more. The phone thing; I believe it is true. And this is why. A few months ago, I had her cell #, and it worked. I did not call her very often, but when I did she answered, so nothing was being hidden there. The truth is, she messed up on making payments. You see, she needs a little help.
Here comes the White Night story.
She is 25. At 21 she got pregnant. She and the babies father got an apartment and lived together for 4 years. The relationship was strained, and they would often fight. A couple months ago an incident occurred, and he tore the apartment and much of the complex apart. The police arrested him, and Child Protective Service was involved. She was counciled by that agency and got a restraining order against the father. That was the deal from CPS in order for her to maintain custody of her 3 year old. She also moved to another townhouse, and is trying to start over. She literally cannot get phone service right now, due to financial ramifications of the move and separation. I am able to leave a message with her mother, who lives nearby and baby sits while she works, if I need to, but I have not gone there.
This story gets worse. She has an alcohol problem, and appreciates a little smoke, and a little snort, or whatever else may be available for recreational purposes. She has been fired from the last 3 clubs that she worked at in the past 3 months, due to her self abusive behavior. She has begun looking at work as an opportunity to party. I actually have not paid her for a lap dance in 2 months, because she has not been at work. She started working at a new club last week, and that is when my confusion over the lap dancing became an issue for me. I sat with her for the last 2 hours of her shift on her first night, this past weekend, and began feeling very uneasy about this whole scenario.
Now I am being tested. I know that I do care for this girl. I also know that I probably should not. Descriptive terms such as, White Knight, Enabler, Sugar Daddy, all come to mind, and I am OK with them. I am in the best situation of my life right now to be a Sugar Daddy, and I don't mind. I rather feel good about that role. People have different needs, and are attracted to one another based upon those needs, and her needs are right out there and easy to see. My needs however are different. I just love this girl, and feel that I can help her attain her eventual goals.
Now love is blind, and all of these problems that she is having, settle with me just fine. I don't think less of her, nor do I expect that she will change for the better. I seem to just love this girl no matter what is going on her life.
I made comment that I would marry her tomorrow, and I would. So here is my dilemma. I am in love with an alcoholic stripper, That can't keep a job, parties too much, has a dangerous Ex, lurking around in the shadows, and is obviously headed down 10 miles of bad road.
So I guess the question I put before this wise board is, do I just let things unfold naturally and let my heart guide me, or do I cut my loses and run like hell. Share some opinions with me.
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Re: Lookin for love... In all the wrong places
BigGun,
In my own humble opinion. I think you know what the best thing to do is. There is just too much drama that follows this girl. And one person cannot change another...just in case you think you can make things better for her and that she will change. Now yes it is possible that some day she will come around to bettering herself. But do you really want to risk getting hurt big time?!
If she really, really wanted to be with you....she would go out of her way to spend more and more time with you and she would be calling you more often. It just sound like that you give so much to this girl....and its not even about the money. Its that you give all your good energy to her and what is she really giving you? Plus, if she has these self destructive/self abusive habits....then how can she really start to love you when she does not even care for herself?
Yes, in love and relationships we take risks. But when there are big time warning signs ...... one should think twice!
Best of luck to you.
Amyaz
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Re: Lookin for love... In all the wrong places
Never been to a strip club, but IMO it's just the same as any other girl.
If you like her that much, fuck it. Tell her. How can you hide it if you really like her that much.
And I'm sure you know if she is playing games with you. If your honest with yourself then you will know it.
If you really like her, then you have to make a move. The worst thing that can happen is you'll get shot down. If you don't take a chance, you'll never know. That is worse. Why get strung along? Is it really that great not being sure of what is going on that you can't risk losing that for a potential great relationship?
And if you get shot down, then you get ot get drunk and tattooed. That is always fun.
Go on one of your picnics or walks and tell her the truth. Be honest with yourself. What if that is your future wife? Haven't you seen Good Will Hunting?
Don't be a wuss. Good luck.
Tyler.
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Re: Lookin for love... In all the wrong places
BG, please think carefully about the comments and opinions posted here...particularly from the ladies. Sounds to me like you are headed for an emotional disaster.
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Re: Lookin for love... In all the wrong places
Sounds like quite a few stripper lives that I know. (Don't mean to be negative.) Because of that, I assume that some of the heart-wrenching details are true (I am also assuming you have checked some of them out, but not all of them. You are 45 and probably apprehensive, but also drawn in. ).
If some of it is true, she is looking for anyone to latch on to and you may not be the only one she does this to, as Pamela pointed out. Even if you are the only one, you may be surprised to find that your kindness, is not looked upon as fondly as you might think. And may be ignored or dispatched as soon as the next money-giver appears. Although, you are willing to be a Sugar Daddy or whatever, are you willing to see your thoughtfulness thrown on the floor? Or at least compared against competitive money-giving. She may try to get it from whom-ever she can and when you fall, it may be on to the next.
If you are willing to risk that, enjoy her while you can.
No matter how thoughtfully and nobly given, your help will not produce the realizations inside her towards you, that you may be desiring. Realizations like "this guy is the one, because he's always there for me". Her investment in you will be seen as she chooses to be with you without all that. I am counseling you to expect a lot of time from her in order for you to see that she really wants you to be with her. Don't take anything less. You may end up being totally invested in her and her not in you.
Casually check out her stories without being intrusive.
Don't blindly give out cash. You will feel a lot better if you know that the money is going specifically to something. I mean go there with her to confirm it. At least that way you get a constructive feeling out of it. If she does not want you to be involved, she does not want you to know where the money is going.
Keep your heart at a safe distance.
Don't sugar-coat any of her actions and especially not ones towards you. If she does things to others, think about the fact that she may do them to you.
-Sad-
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Re: Lookin for love... In all the wrong places
I dunno...I suspect BG's friend isnt tryin to play him in a cold, calculated manner. She's just has tons of drama and is pretty messed up inside. Sad's advise of "..keep your heart at a safe distance.." is right on IMO. I had an outside the bar relationship awhile back and I'm still doing damage control from it. Nobodies fault but mine but I hate to see it happen to someone else.
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Re: Lookin for love... In all the wrong places
Cold calculation feels almost no different than the indifference sometimes. The hardest thing for any of us SCJ-ers is that there may be little or no emotional investment at all.
You're too kind FBR. I'm sure your ATF had a hand in your debacle, knowingly or not. She probably fostered some of it. So to blame yourself totally for it, is overkill.
BG, she is going through some shit....mine was.... Which brings us to the question: Can she even see you through all that shit? And will it be in a way that is acceptable to you?
-Sad-
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Re: Lookin for love... In all the wrong places
Quote:
I made comment that I would marry her tomorrow, and I would. So here is my dilemma. I am in love with an alcoholic stripper, That can't keep a job, parties too much, has a dangerous Ex, lurking around in the shadows, and is obviously headed down 10 miles of bad road.
Ah yes, the dangerous exes. Mine had two-and-a-half of those at the same time. Two who were really dangerous, the other just flippy and obsessed. Don't let them be her excuse for not seeing you. (Assuming you are not afraid).
In her trying to feel good about a fucked-up situation, my ATF created all kinds of obsessed creatures in her life whom she would get involved with and supposedly not want to be attached to. But they kept coming back. She often chose to bring them back. (Get the net).
Expect more drama.
Also, expect her to stand on her own two feet. You will probably not be able to support her separate life forever. You can't do everything for her.
-Sad-
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Re: Lookin for love... In all the wrong places
No I have not seen Good Will Hunting. Sounds like I should watch it tonight.
A funny thing happened a few minutes ago. She called to say hi, and talk for a few minutes. She spoke of registering for classes at the college, getting her phone reconnected, going to the amusment park with her baby and my grandson on the weekend. The calls have been coming almost every day. I am keeping my heart at a safe distance, but she is calling me more often, and it confuses the hell out of me.
I am not persuing other woman because I find I have little interest in putting energy into them. I had a date with a woman my age a couple of weeks ago, and never called her back, because my entertainer friend has captured so much of my attention the past 3 weeks.
I think the real test will come Friday when she works again. I went in on her first night last week, because she was nervous and wanted a little support, but I think I will not go any more. Hopefully she won't interperate that as me blowing her off.
It's pretty obvious I'm a confused mess right now. I know there are much bigger problems I could get myself caught up in, besides not understanding why a beautiful 25 year old girl, is calling me all the time, but it is consuming all my mental attention right now.
The old addage, "Never fall in love with a stripper" just keeps bouncing around in my head right now. But I reallly dont know what that old addage means. Are strippers not people too ?
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Re: Lookin for love... In all the wrong places
Let me continue the sentence for you, sad.
Never fall in love with a stripper YOU MEET AT A STRIPCLUB. We carry our alter egos with us there. Of course it isn't safe there.
But if you meet us in the sunshine, reading a book with our hair in a ponytail and just a dab of gloss, we'll extend our hand and give you our real name.
I'm Priscilla.
We wont sit on your lap, or air kiss your cheek. When we can laugh at jokes that are really funny to us, and not have thong wedgies....we are more likely to fall in love with you. I swear, it happens all the time in the REAL WORLD.
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Re: Lookin for love... In all the wrong places
She probably is calling you because she needs attention and help. All of us do. Look for real attraction and investment on her part.
Don't hold up your life for her if there is no investment.
Strippers surely are people. Often vibrant and wonderful. But with some, the difference between fantasy and reality is blurred even outside of the club.
I will always always love my former ATF. I invested too much of myself into her to not do so. You can pick apart that statement all you want.
-Sad-
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Re: Lookin for love... In all the wrong places
Juliette is right. Better to not find her in a club, where she is not really being herself.
-Sad-
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Re: Lookin for love... In all the wrong places
Wow BG, you seem like such a romantic gentleman. I generally avoid giving romantic advice, a bit like Michael Jackson preaching about the wonders of natural beauty, I don't know much about it. I do have a few thoughts though.
You cannot control the way that you feel.
You shouldn't expect yourself to live up to logical guidelines, such as "give her attention...but not too much" or "sound pleased to hear from her when she calls...but not like you were anxiously waiting"
You'll receive plenty of strategical advice from people who care; but sooner or later you'll be lost in script.
I don't feel age is an issue here, your empathy for her situation shows you are very wise so i'm sure you're well aware that only she has the ability to live sober, only when she's ready.
I'm not sure how much you know about the effects of "partying" but one of the most common side effects are severe mood swings. If possible, try not to let your hopes ride on her promises to stick with lifestyle plans that'll get her back on her feet. Chances are she's experiencing a euphoric peak.
I truly hope things work out for both of you. If it doesn't remember that you're not the only guy to go through this, sometimes any kind of company helps ease the loneliness.
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Re: Lookin for love... In all the wrong places
Big Gun, exactly what is this girls devotion to you that you are so willing to pick up her life for? She certainly is carrying her share of the excess baggage with her.
Ask yourself, if she wasn't in such a bind now, would she still have the same intense devotion towards you that you think she has? Be honest with yourself.
I thought that if I shown a great deal of kindness that the other person would forever be grateful. Was I ever wrong! My estranged wife had a child from another man before she met me. They got in arguements and he disserted her. When I married her i thought I would give her and her child a whole new life. People who experienced dissertion would never do that to someone else. WRONG! After failed attempts to get me to buy her parents a house she disserted me.
As the others have said, it is very difficult to change people. Forget about what she may be doing to help you. What is she doing to help herself. Is she attending AA meetings, narcanon, appenticeship? Only if I saw her making tremendous strides to improve herself and her childs would I even bother getting involved with her.
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Re: Lookin for love... In all the wrong places
Yes Dreamer,
And there in lies my conflict. She always makes sure to have me know, that she is attending AA meetings, intending to enroll for fall classes, trade in her expensive red sports car, for a more modest cheaper car, like the Escort that I drive. I think she is trying to make herself "do the right thing" and report to me her progress. This may help to keep herself in line. She also has told me of an alchohol incident, and was very ashamed of herself for it.
Drama is big in her life right now, and it is why I keep my distance. Naomi_Tx said it clearly.
"You cannot control the way that you feel"
I have always thought I could control my feelings, but alas now realize, I cannot. Ignoring or rationalizing my feelings, was a big part of the demise of my 23 year marriage. This young girl has taught me that. Feelings happen, and how we react is the reality of thier effect.
"making tremendous strides to improve herself and her childs".
My reaction here would be that maybe, I am playing a role in a tremendous stride she is now taking.
I am no angel myself, nor is she. I have lived a little mysef, and understand alchohol and drug abuse from a first hand perspective. I am fortunate to have made it to my age, without losing it all, or being doomed in jail, or getting killed in bar room brawl.
This board has taught me, to stop giving her money, keep a safe distance for now, and enjoy her company when it is there. No expectations, no demands, I believe it's called unconditional love, and it feels very good. [love]
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Re: Lookin for love... In all the wrong places
Quote:
Drama is big in her life right now, and it is why I keep my distance. Naomi_Tx said it clearly.
"You cannot control the way that you feel"
I have always thought I could control my feelings, but alas now realize, I cannot. Ignoring or rationalizing my feelings, was a big part of the demise of my 23 year marriage. This young girl has taught me that. Feelings happen, and how we react is the reality of their effect.
Thank you Big_Gun, I received a PM from another member criticizing as "feelings are only thing we do have control of."
Our actions are all that we can truly control; but when emotions run high, even that is difficult.
I haven't always been an angel myself [angel] people change.
Good luck [peace]
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Re: Lookin for love... In all the wrong places
Hey, don't get carried away! You may be a victim of deceit, try to put things in perspective and see this as just a dancer-client relationship, nothing more. 8)
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Re: Lookin for love... In all the wrong places
Big Gun, I happen to disagree with Naomi. You can control your feelings. You can overcome fear if you educate yourself , discipline yourself, and confront what you fear. We are a step above the other animals in that we have the ability to rationalize rather than rely on our instincts. That is the way it happened with my wife. I kept projecting excuse after excuse to cover for our incompatibility but each time reality hit , there was nothing left except to face the truth.
Have patience, don't jump the gun, and if she was actually meant for you then time will tell.