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Re: The realities of the Champange Room/VIP
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...clubowners who gouge the customers and charge the dancers an arm and a leg to work... If the club owners weren't so greedy...
Let's face it....titty bar owners are hardly the kindest, most upstanding citizens. Many of these clubs are fronts to launder money, sell drugs and pimp. We dancers deal with some tough characters in our business and in my experience these characters are managers not customers. Those guys don't care about us OR the customers.
How many new girls come into the business knowing they will be required to hustle dances, drinks and VIP? How many know they will be required to pay to work? It is club managers who push the hustle on us and we dancers have no option but to pass it on to the customer. Remember these clubs are hustling us too.
If a customer expects us dancers to whore in the back room then buyer beware and may the smart girl win.
If I am attempting to do something illegal...say buy a bag of weed....and I give my money to some hustler who disappears...who do I have to blame?
Guys don't be stupid. And don't be cruel. If you want to lure a girl into prostituting herself ask yourself this: would you want that for your own daughter? If the answer is "yes" then blow me. And if the answer is "no" then act like a gentleman - not a trick.
Nobody respects a trick - especially not whores .
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Re: The realities of the Champange Room/VIP
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Originally Posted by justaclient link=board=9;threadid=4090;start=msg48911#msg48911 date=1069772539
To think that men will sit there just for company and conversation and that they are not hoping somewhere deep down all of it will in one way or another lead to sex is dellusional. Or maybe there are men like that but very, very, very few.
I completely agree with you, justaclient and thorn. I also thank my lucky stars when a guy walks in who DOESN'T want sex in the champagne room. A very rare occurance indeed. I don't sell VIP's much because once I say "no sex", they thank me for my time and go on to the next girl who will. There is always another girl who will.
Strip club life is rough sometimes. I compete daily with girls who are a lot less attractive, but make a lot more money... and I'm sure have a lot more STD's....
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Re:The realities of the Champange Room/VIP
I've been in several champagne rooms, and except for a couple of clubs (Vegas Cabaret and Booby Trap II, both in South Florida), they've all been rip-offs. What made the champagne rooms in those two clubs good wasn't the mileage (which varied with dancers) but the honesty.
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why does everyone relate champange room with sex?
THORN: who have to be either one of two a dancer who never gets to go in the vip,and witnesses dancers coming out of the vip with 500$ to 1000$ and you make ridiculous assumptions,or a dancer that doesn't know how to get into a guys mind psychologically and take him for every penny he's got.it's all in the talk ladies,i go in the champange room 2-3 times a week on a 3-4 night shift.no SEX is going on i just know how to make money in there without being a whore.you find it hard to believe because you haven't mastered the male mind! i make so much money in and out of the champange room,it's comments and dancers like you who like to assume the worst because you pull 100$ to 200$ a night! nothing makes me more mad then when people don't know what's going on in the champange room,and they assume things
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Re:The realities of the Champange Room/VIP
Darkness--actually, Thorn is not a dancer, or at least not a female one. According to the gender status on his profile, he's a man. This is one of the reasons I was annoyed with his post in the first place. Just because he isn't one of the guys who goes to the champagne room and spends lots of money without expecting sex doesn't mean there aren't plenty of guys like that out there.
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Re:The realities of the Champange Room/VIP
The biggest mistake Thorn has made is in not realizing that while men who will gladly shell out 800$, without expecting sex, may be rare, they are NOT so rare in the kind of upscale clubs that Kobi, Bridgette, miss george, and myriad other dancers work in. My girlfriend routinely gets tipped far and above more than she charges--just one example--she was recently paid 500$ for ten dances (200$ worth), by a gentleman who did not expect anything more than she gave him, which was the best lap dancing he had ever experienced--without anything "extra" promised or delivered.
There are many men who will gladly pay hundreds of dollars for the priviledge of being treated like a sultan, without having to attain orgasm in the process. And, like vanilla_dog, I have also observed many men who love nothing more than throwing their money around profusely, solely in order to impress their friends and random club clientele with their power to do so. While the latter sort might often elicit contempt from me as being "pathetic", the former are not necessarily so, whatever Thorn thinks.
They thankfully aren't cheap hagglers.
In some clubs some of the dancers will provide extras, which makes the whole situation much more difficult for everyone. This is, I fear, becoming more prevalent, and happens far more frequently than Santos would believe. Many men in these clubs WILL in fact expect sexual favors other than some thorough grinding, due to past experience. Regrettably, many a "man" is not reluctant to aggressively attempt to repeat his experience, in spite of being told up front that he should not expect anything of the kind, by the clean dancers in the clubs.
But nonetheless, the churlish lout who considers himself ENTITLED to sexual favors for his several hundred $$ (and thus feels entitled to criminal activity) is really the delusional one, and a swine to boot--unless the girl has promised what she has no intention of delivering. Such women may be more common than we might like in the business, but they are very, very rare indeed in this forum, and thus Thorn once again is assuredly preaching to the wrong audience.
I would lay the blame on what problems do occur primarily at the feet of the owners/managers--as vanilla_dog says "Those guys don't care about us OR the customers." If all clubs were run like CrazyBob's, the stripclub industry would be a much better one.
As she pointed out in an earlier post "The strip club can be seen as an arena where women and men engage in a combat of the sexes...". This is as accurate an assessment of the business as I have seen, albeit a cynical one (when dancers and customers so often become mercenary it is no laughing matter, and can only hurt this troubled industry). The fact that some dancers will bullshit customers, and some customers will go as far as assault to get what they want, could be avoided by strict enforcement of rules prohibiting such behavior, and clearly visible signs at entrances stating that the stripclub is not a brothel, or more discrete words to that effect.
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Re:The realities of the Champange Room/VIP
This is definitely one of those things that varies from club to club, city to city, dancer to dancer. I've never done extras, but worked in some clubs where management turned a blind eye to extras, others where if you were busted you were fired AND arrested and others where they tolerated it just from the hot chicks who sold lots of champagne rooms.
I personally am always honest when telling a customer that there will be no sex, but they often leave having had a good time nonetheless and I've had many repeat customers.
But again, referring to what I wrote above, that's just my experience.
I've also had numerous guys tell me they don't want sex, just some hot dancing from a pretty girl because they don't want to run the risk of catching an STD from a chick who'll let you do her for $100 or whatever the rate is, since they know that condoms don't protect from everything.
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Re:why does everyone relate champange room with sex?
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Originally Posted by darkness link=board=9;threadid=4090;start=msg60641#msg60641 date=1073267535
THORN: who have to be either one of two a dancer who never gets to go in the vip,and witnesses dancers coming out of the vip with 500$ to 1000$ and you make ridiculous assumptions,or a dancer that doesn't know how to get into a guys mind psychologically and take him for every penny he's got.it's all in the talk ladies,i go in the champange room 2-3 times a week on a 3-4 night shift.no SEX is going on i just know how to make money in there without being a whore.you find it hard to believe because you haven't mastered the male mind! i make so much money in and out of the champange room,it's comments and dancers like you who like to assume the worst because you pull 100$ to 200$ a night! nothing makes me more mad then when people don't know what's going on in the champange room,and they assume things
Hey Ms Hustler, give me some of your tips!
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Re: The realities of the Champange Room/VIP
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Originally Posted by Thorn link=board=9;threadid=4090;start=msg48882#msg48882 date=1068958020
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We all know it. Guys will hope for more. We just expect that you don't expect it will happen.
I know, and understand that.
What I hope for you to know, and understand, is that the way the male client thinks he
is expecting that and that he is always expecting that.
Though I agree it is best to let a guy know there will be no sex or extras ( unless ofcourse a dancer is willing) just be on the safe side, customers have absolulty no f-ing right to expect sex or extras. He can hope all he wants but expecting is a whole differnt ball of wax
Also a dancers time is worth at least 100 an hour. And for you to suggest otherwise seems purposely demeaning.
And just why any customer thinks he knows more about the business than experienced dancers is beyond me ::)
So far what I have read of your comments on this thread Thorn, you come across as yet another customer trying to get discounts and extras by encouraging dancers to think less of their self worth. >:(
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Re:The realities of the Champange Room/VIP
I'll never do a champaign / VIP room again. Just recently I did one, and before I could even sit down the guy dropped his pants.
I was completely grossed out, and to be honest, it was a big blow to my self esteem.
I told him I'd dance for him, but would not s*ck or f*ck him. He gave me $100 and left.
I feel good because I stuck to my guns and didn't compromise myself but I feel bad because he felt that since I'm a dancer, I'm a prostitute too.
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Re:The realities of the Champange Room/VIP
"...to be honest, it was a big blow to my self esteem...I feel bad because he felt that since I'm a dancer, I'm a prostitute too."
Monica, I implore you, find the strength to rise above what swine like this think about you. You are who you are. Though you will occasionally deal with guys like this, whatever their pathetic minds feel has no real bearing on your worth, unless you let it.
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Re:The realities of the Champange Room/VIP
we have a girl at work who does 3-2 champagnes a night. 1000-1500 every freaking night. idont know how she does it...
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Re:The realities of the Champange Room/VIP
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Re:The realities of the Champange Room/VIP
A lot of interesting discussion on this thread-
doc-catfish:
>>"she went from a sweet gal to a whiny and belligerent psycho.
>>She criticized me for drinking soda, she kept pestering me to step
>>up to the next level of VIP (half hour) despite telling her repeated
>>times that I didn't have the money, then she kept telling me to
>>use a credit card despite me telling her repeated times that I
>>wasn't going to pay a 20% surcharge, she kept telling me to go
>>use the club ATM."
You've gotten a dancer that has gone to "Stripper School" or otherwise trying to use a "system".. this is unfortunately the very process that is taught; the sweet and kind girl on the floor to push the upgrade, then once in the upgrade put on the high pressure ATM mode. I will admit every dancer I've seen transition into this method DOES make a buttload more money than they made prior, but they lose the ability to maintain stable regulars. In clubs with good visitor/tourist traffic, it makes this dancer good money (she sells more VIP's than most anyone else), but leaves such a bad taste in the patron's mouth that they dont ever want to repeat. The dancers look at it as converting a $20 sale into a $100 sale, which is true.. but they also dont look at it as having to hustle 10x as hard each new day to weed out just the newbies. They also don't look at it as $20 every week for the next year as the customer returns to repeat.
DAISYlicious-
>>"And what does Chris Rock say??"
Chris Rock was seen exiting a private booth at Mitchell Brothers three weekends ago. He's going to need to revise his lyrics. LOL
Monica-
>>"I feel bad because he felt that since I'm a dancer, I'm a prostitute too."
The door swings both ways.
I always upgrade a lapdance to VIP room, champagne room, blue room, red room, green room, jungle room or whatever stupid name they have for "Dancah needs a new pair-a-shoooze" room at the particular club... of 40 upgrades last year, twice I had a dancer begin to initiate extras upon arrival.. without prior mention, negotiation or expectation.
I feel bad because she felt because I'm generous, I'm a "john" or someone who pays for sex too.
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Re:The realities of the Champange Room/VIP
I can give you many tips! I have to know some things first...are you a lap dancer or an air dancer? do you have a shy mind or an open mind?do you want to make 1000$ a night or 100$? to malibu
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Re:The realities of the Champange Room/VIP
I think the reason why there are no postings from BJ giving dancers on this thread is because they cannot afford computers.
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Re:The realities of the Champange Room/VIP
True! ;D The chicks giving BJs probably can't afford computers.
I had to respond to the thread dancers are like prepay gasoline pumps(old general forum, i think), by niceguy and polecat. arrrrgggg
It is bad enough we have to deal with customers who think they know everything about the business at work.
But we have to argue with them on here too.
I wish there were a way for this site to only have dancers on here.
Maybe if it were set up in the future as a pay only site and the credit card info, if your a woman, then you are allowed to access the site, because these men are ignorant! Some mean well I am sure, but some are so opinionated it actually raises :10: my bloodpressure just reading their crap. Especially Thorn, Polecat and Niceguy!!!!!! >:(
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Re:The realities of the Champange Room/VIP
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Some mean well I am sure, but some are so opinionated it actually raises my bloodpressure just reading their crap. Especially Thorn, Polecat and Niceguy!!!!!!
The given quote of "mine" that you seemed to have been so against wasn't even from me. I made it pretty clear I prefer to pre-pay even in post-pay clubs, and have revisited that old discussion to clarify my stance.
It's also intolerant, judgemental and bitter/spiteful to condemn others that you don't know or have different boundries/practices. This whole "chicks giving BJs" may fit a one-horse town ethic in ghetto clubs, but it doesn't apply everywhere. I know a few that own three or four computers- to ensure they have one at their NY high-rise, their Houston condo, and Los Angeles large sprawl.
You wont see them here since they prefer not to rub elbows with exceptionally judgemental people. Jeeze- see the Club Chat thread for an example of the kind of treatment they get here as someone who just WORKS at an openly extras club, but NEVER performed extras herself was condemned, ganged up on and discredited. She didn't deserve the reaction she received and she wasn't even one doing extras. Guilt by association. As it's proven non-productive, it's wise for them to stay out of this mix.
Also, it's pretty hypocritical to hear such staunch and jaded judgement communicated in this thread, yet another thread seeing a flurry of cheering and affirmation for a $20K weekend proposal and it's obvious implications on the same site.
If such issues raise your blood pressure- do yourself a favor and get out of this biz as fast as possible. You by no means have to support the issues and can (and should) be vocal with things you are in opposition with, but personal discomfort on such subjects is only unhealthy and not something you deserve. It's unfortunately a rampant topic in stripclubs and should be openly discussed without any ear burning due to it. Tolerance is key and no one is setting out intentionally to make you uncomfortable or to frustrate you.
And before anyone makes some ignorant assumption, jump of mislogic or whatnot that I'm somehow "pro-extras", think again as it's not my stance (as put pretty clearly in the last post) in specifically the stripclub environment... but I will not cast judgement on women that are comfortable with it, decide to work at brothels, transition into or from escorting, etc. etc. If you take an element and demote them to "outcast", you only create a bigger divide which only amplifies the problem and deepens the animosity.
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Re:The realities of the Champange Room/VIP
["If such issues raise your blood pressure- do yourself a favor and get out of this biz as fast as possible."]
I truly enjoy dancing. Dancing is what I do, not BJs or extras in clubs, so from my perspective as an entertainer it is frustrating when girls perform extras. Not only because it makes it difficult at times, when others are doing things that are not allowed, but because I am 'by the book' it is unfair when customers expect that I do the same.
At the club I work at there are things going on that shouldn't be. There are cameras everywhere but somehow girls get away with doing extras. BJs in this club-no way. But it is not an even playing field when you just act sexy and dance.
The comment I made about you was due to the many posts I have read of yours. You are definitely entitled to you opinion, as am I. When I joined this forum I expected it to be dancers and never customers who act like they know more about the business than we do.
I find it to be quite entertaining and hysterical!!!
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Re:The realities of the Champange Room/VIP
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The comment I made about you was due to the many posts I have read of yours. You are definitely entitled to you opinion, as am I. When I joined this forum I expected it to be dancers and never customers who act like they know more about the business than we do.
Well, feel free to at any time reference spots where my posts are somehow so tragically wrong or otherwise you disagree with. It's rather empty and narrow minded to maintain such criticism without a single reference or example... or in the singular case, an example wrongfully credited as they are someone else's words.
You should at least give people the benefit of the doubt of misunderstanding or misinterpretation before sudden condemnation. Such impatient means generally do not make for peace and only lead to conflict.
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Re:The realities of the Champange Room/VIP
:angel:Hey THORN and POLECAT...we're you men formerly female dancers and had sex changes? What makes you the experts here? Unless you walk 8 hours in 7 inch heels and do OUR job you will NEVER understand us or the job we do. I find your posts to be arrogant, antagonistic, condecending, preachy.....
I absolutley LOVED this web site and all it had to offer until I read some of the poison you post. You can take an informative thread that is positive, take it on a tangent, twist it all up and turn it into JUNK LIKE THIS ONE HAS BECOME. :devil:
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Re:The realities of the Champange Room/VIP
Honestly, BlondeAmazon-
I'm surprised, shocked, and even hurt by the insinuation that I'm somehow spewing "poison" or a *hint* that I've given the impression of knowing your jobs "better than you" or otherwise antagonistic or confrontational... hence the query for some examples. It's really not in my nature! It surely wasn't the intent, and I appologize if you read it as such.
Consistently, I've been in agreement with everything you have all said here and in other threads, but my only sin has been an expression of the importance of tolerance and at least we should attempt to understand ALL other viewpoints. This seems to somehow be misinterpretted as a different personal stance.
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Re:The realities of the Champange Room/VIP
Honestly Polecat- and Thorn too for that matter-
As a new member of this web site, I have spent a minimum of 4 hours per day reading all of the forums. I use this web site for inspiration, motivation, and education. It is the closest thing to having a trade orginization we may ever have in this profession.
I cannot understand how you can be shocked by the fact that I find your postings to be antagonistic, preachy and condecending. Have you read your own postings? Since I have been reading the forums in "bulk" so to speak, not in real time as they are posted, your view is perfectly clear to me.
I am shocked however that the women who come here for the same reasons I do have tolerated it for so long. The only reason I think they have is that they find it entertaining.
SAD.
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Re:The realities of the Champange Room/VIP
Amazon: Welcome friend.
Polecat: I have found your voice to be among the most moderate of the men. When it comes to tolerance, however, it isnt the best trait in a beginning stripper.
Many new strippers come into the club fresh from Mummies house where no one ever lies and Daddy loves his little princess. Even if she comes from a shitty background she is still going to be surprized by what men her father's age do in their spare time.
Now is not the time for tolerance.
Picture it: the new stripper will suddenly be facing some 40+ year old man who is a vetran of surviving the real business world (far more savage than the strip club world). He has heavily advanced sexual proclivities the likes of which she has never imagined, much less seen. He is armed with years of sexual experience, tricks, scams, and a million forms of sexual coercion both subtle and overt.
Many of these girls are still teenagers! Many are mother's trying to provide for their kids. That horny, predatory man's blowjob money is their rent money, food for the kids, clothes, health insurance, car insurance etc. They are just starting out in life and do pretty good considering the crap these guys pull.
Of course old strippers like me feel for them and want them to do well and avoid falling for the bullshit. So we tell em what's up. Of course certain men who find this counter to their objectives are going to get upset. There is not a bone in my body that could even begin to pretend to care.
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Re:The realities of the Champange Room/VIP
Thanks for that vanilla dog, and I whole heartedly agree.
And by tolerance, I do not advocate tolerance in the stripclubs persay (actually far from it!), but instead intended it to apply only here on the forums. The collective content here holds alot of value! Even some of the less popular topics.