Leigh,
GOOD for you...that guy was a dirtbag to do that to you. He probably said, "shit, shes gonna make a big deal" and maybe his wife would find out or something. lol
Good job!!!! :D
Printable View
Leigh,
GOOD for you...that guy was a dirtbag to do that to you. He probably said, "shit, shes gonna make a big deal" and maybe his wife would find out or something. lol
Good job!!!! :D
At my current club, dances are $30 in the lapdance room, and minimum $200/half-hour in VIP, each area on the second floor. All customers have to pay up front to the upstairs bouncer, and they always ask how many dances they'd like up front. Most of my customers are Puerto Ricans, and ALOT of them will pay for 2 or 3 dances up front, because they usually know they want more than one. After we've done the initial dance(s), if they want more we just continue and they pay at the end. There's never a problem with getting the money because they know that bouncer right outside the doorway is going to be waiting for the amount due. Most of them even keep track by asking me between each song how much they will owe if they get one more dance. The club keeps $10 from every $30 dance, but I don't mind one bit, because a) I'm used to getting $20 in the states anyway, and b) that other $10 pays for the bouncer to be there and take care of me. For me, comparing the system I work in now to most of the other clubs I've worked in, I like it much better. It takes the pressure off me to make sure I'm getting paid and just concentrate on pleasing the customer and making sure we're having a good time. Also, since the guys do the *business* with the male staffmembers, they can sort of have their 'man thing' while I play the part of hot armcandy. It works out for everyone ;D
The only customers who get the least bit put off by having to pay up front are the American tourists who are accustomed to the common US system of paying at the end. But even most of them come around easily because I always smooth it over - I think keeping IN your sales mode even after the guy has agreed to get a dance is key when it comes to collecting the money up front. It's very easy to switch into a different mode when trying to collect, and that can be what ruins the mood instead of the fact that you're asking for money. The guys all know they have to pay anyway, whether it's before or after.
This has been interesting reading for me since here in Australia the money is expected up-front. That's just how it works here... you get the money up-front and if they want to continue the dance.. they pay up-front still (even if it means a slight break in the dance).
No complaints from the customers as they all know to expect that...
No customers here on the Gold Coast (anyway) pay after the dance is done.
I personally wouldn't do it any other way except up-front. Guarantees me that I get the money and it guarantees the customer he is going to get the dance he paid for.... just seems so logical to me.
:D
Every time I go to McDonald's, they make me pay before I get my meal.Quote:
See how easily guys get weird about this? I guess I would compare it to being asked to pay for your meal before eating at a restaurant - the fact that you aren't trusted to cover the tab is incredibly off-putting to the very kind of man who is never going to have a problem paying you for your dances.
I think it goes back to the question of what club you work at and the type of customers they have. You need to balance the risk of not getting paid vs the risk of the guy getting upset by the lack of trust.
Asking for the money in a very polite way, and mentioning that you have been burned in the past, can help smooth things over if the feathers seem ruffled.
In the 10 or so clubs I have worked in Dallas and San Antonio, I have never collected $$$ up front. I have never seen any other girls do it either. Must be a geo-cultural thing.
Not really unless you are dividing up sections of a city into really small pieces. I have been to several clubs in SF bay area, and they vary from club to club even dancer to dancer. For instance at one club where I was new, everyone asked and got money up front per dance. At another, more of a classy place, none of the girls asked up front and lastly at my fav club, the girls that know me don't ask up front and I volenteer up front to girls that don't know me.
I really don't get upset about paying for a dance up front, but to understand why some guys get a tad flustered when asked to do it, you ladies need only to look at your own concerns about the customer stiffing you when you leave him on his honor to pony up at the end. It works the same way for us. One have a lot more leverage regarding the dance when the money is in their hands. Unfortunately, a lot of unscrupulous people, dancers and customers alike, take advantage of that fact.
Case in point. The last LD I had was from a cute blonde gal who hadn't danced for me before. When she asked for the money up front I thought no big deal, I've done that before and the dancers delivered every time (although may I state that up front payment is NOT the norm at this particular club). So I promptly gave her the $20.
This gal then proceded to give me one of the most awful, clinical, laziest dances I can ever recall having. Barely spoke to me, looked away from me, and just wiggled her butt on my kneecaps for four minutes. This wasn't just a case of YMMV. This was FAR below the standards set by that of her co-workers.
Now as awful as it was, I DID ask for it, and being a nice guy I would have given her the $20 without so much a derogatory comment, after all she DID dance for me, but I'm sure a lot of guys would have had some smart remark, or worse yet would perhaps even refuse to pay up, if they hadn't done it already.
[frustrated]
Unfortunately, with me having already fulfilled my end of the bargain, she had no incentive to give 100% effort on her part (well, except perhaps to sell more dances).
[idea]
Thankfully she was due on stage after one song with me, and even had she been available for more, I wouldn't have bought any. Truth be told, she could have been some terrified new gal who just hadn't gotten in the groove yet, but my bets are she's pulled that scam with other guys before and figures that catching a little static for sub-par dances is okay, as long as the customer has already forked over the dough.
A terrible business strategy on her part in my mind.
I don't ask to be paid first for several reasons. Sometimes guys tip extra and I'd hate to miss out on the opportunity. When I'm done with the first song I say something like "well, since I'm here, I may as well keep going don't you think?" If he already feels he must pay first it might ruin the mood. Mostly though, I think it's just insulting.
I have been stiffed twice, once the guy's card wasn't working, I decided not to make a scene because I don't want the other guys to see and think I'm "the scene girl" I was polite and wrote it off and moved on. It was a nice surprise when a few nights later he stoped by just to give me $100 (it was only two dances)
and he thanked me for not embarrassing him.
The other Naomi has a good point, it's not worth ruining your whole night, we make enough money to cover it.
I have to disagree-- surely if he is a gentleman he should understand that this is a often a rough business for girls, and he will want you to feel comfortable, safe, and respected. He should not feel offended because really it ISN'T about him at all. It's just your policy, and your policies deserve respect. Getting a naked dance from a girl is not comparable to eating in a restaurant.Quote:
See how easily guys get weird about this? I guess I would compare it to being asked to pay for your meal before eating at a restaurant - the fact that you aren't trusted to cover the tab is incredibly off-putting to the very kind of man who is never going to have a problem paying you for your dances.
I am in the process of switching clubs-- at my old club (a very small working class bar where the manager would definitely step in to help a girl who is being stiffed) I never asked for money upfront. It was worth it because usually when I was done, my customer loved the dance so much he would tip me generously. I had two customers who tried to stiff me-- neither got away with it.
At my new club, though, I have been warned that getting money upfront is important partly because if you get stiffed you still have to pay management their cut, and partly because it is a high traffic high end club where all kinds of people pass through. A lot of guys will try to get away with stuff if they don't plan on returning to the club.
In this case, I will simply turn on my doe eyes, ask for payment, and say "I know you will understand.... you are a gentleman...."
We do $20 dances, with $5 to the guy at the entrance. I peer into the wallet when they pay the $5 at the entrance to verify the $ is there. If I don't see it, I ask for $20 up front. When I finish, I make sure I'm between the customer and the door. Then if they don't pay, they have to get past me AND the doorman.
I have to agree with this statement. The thought of not paying for a dance (even if it’s incredibly bad) has never crossed my mind. When I make a deal, I keep to my word. But it depends somewhat on the type of club. Asking for the money upfront in a high-end club is a little tacky IMO. Although, definitely ask for payment after one dance. That way you can gauge if the customer is a non-paying clown.Quote:
the fact that you aren't trusted to cover the tab is incredibly off-putting to the very kind of man who is never going to have a problem paying you for your dances.
In the lower end clubs it may not be a bad idea, but working class guys also like to think of themselves as honest and trustworthy (and depending on their job, they may make a damn good living). But if you work in a classy club that a lot of well-heeled men frequent, they probably will be off put at being treated like cheapskates.
Anyway, that’s just this customer’s opinion.
Wow Gemze, it sounds like you've got it made where you're from, all those gentlemen who understand a strippers concerns and needs, and want nothing more than to ensure her comfort. Somewhere out there customers realize that it isn't about them... it all about the stripper, must be nice.
Back here on Earth it's a bit different. When we want a customer to give us money the first thing we must do is make friends with their egos. For the most part, just like your guys, they realize that it's a rough business for a girl; but, our guys want to feel, even for a brief moment, that a beautiful woman's attention is only on him.
You're right, men should not feel offended but, here on Earth, they often do.
We can wishful think all we want; but, when someone asks for advice than we should be more realistic.
Pay for each dance up front? BUZZKILL!
I'm with Naomi from Texas. These guys think it's about them. Think of all the times customers have said to you "you just want me for my money". Duh, of course, but the trick is to make it seem like you're not about that.
And if they were really "gentlemen", then you wouldn't need to worry about them not paying the bill.
Geme, give it a try and have the customer pay for the dances afterwards. See how much more you will make. You will probably sell more dances and get more in tips.
"Whenever a dancer asks me for the money upfront, I decline the dance. ---money"
Most guys who say that they are friends with the owner are full of it. That is when I know that I will be getting ripped off if I don't get my money up front.
ALWAYS ASK FOR YOUR MONEY UP FRONT. Just tell the customer it's club policy. What I do is put my hand on his leg and say -- we'll just wait for the next song to begin and as I said that will be $20 so let's go ahead and take care of that. Then just keep talking about what ever it was that you were talking about before while he gets out his money.
It is our club policy to get at least the first dance upfront. At least that is way the clock starts and we are sure we aren't working overtime in the couch rooms. Sure, if it's a regular who is going to pay and tip....or even dance 4 or 5 for the night, I could see getting the cash afterwards. It's not worth the risk with probably half of our customers to let all slide till after the dance. I find most experienced club goers know the drill and asking isn't even necessary....
At my club, there is a fee/cut to the house per dance so not only would we be stiffed, but we'd possibly owe the house a cut from ourselves.
Tiana
For a dancer I don't know I will always pay upfront (for one song only ) and ideally reach for my wallet for she asks . No problem if she sees its stuffed with cash !! - two can play this game !!! . I always decline the "wanna continue" and say I may come back later. That way she knows I can pay for more and won't risk it by cutting the dance short or ripping me off . If she does rip me off , never again , at least all I've lost is £20 / US $20 / Aus $50 .
If the dancer appears extra special I offer a tip upfront , if the dance was extra special I tip at the end .
If I become a dancers regular , I accept it as a sign of trust if the start dancing starts right away and I pay at the end - this can get awkward if a favourite expects a tip everytime.
If a dancer I didn't know started before the cash , I would be very wary about the "that was 2 songs " con trick.
Geoff
Well, you're making me think. (I hate it when that happens.) Particularly what Geoff just wrote.
I have never been asked for money up-front. If I were, it wouldn't bother me, but it sure wouldn't impress me much, either. We're starting our fake relationship with a trust issue.
However, approach it from the other side. I don't go terribly often. Would it make a customer more memorable to you who offered your payment up-front, before the first dance? I'm thinking of something like this:
Dancer: "Ready for that dance?"
Me: "Sure."
We walk to the lap area. When we get there:
Me: "Here, let's get this out of the way first." (handing her a twenty.)
Would that impress you with my thoughtfulness? Or would that make you think that I'm already limiting it to once dance and cheaping out of a tip?
- Jason
Jason , My plan is not to say anthing but just get my wallet out and open it , take out the note(s) and hand it to her . Talking about it is a just little intense , the idea is not to make a big deal out of it but make it appear as part of the flow.Quote:
Dancer: "Ready for that dance?"
Me: "Sure."
We walk to the lap area. When we get there:
Me: "Here, let's get this out of the way first." (handing her a twenty.)
- Jason
Geoff
I can certainly appreciate the dancers point of view on this one, but as a customer who always pays what is owed (and often more), I do not like it when the girls hit me up for the money before dancing. My experiences are mostly in Tampa clubs, and I truthfully don't know up front just how many songs I wil be wanting. If my dancer wants cash up front, I pay for one, then leave after that song. In the Tampa clubs, asking for cash up front is usually a sign that the dances will not be very good anyway. Just seems to work that way in the Tampa market.
sorry, unless it is club policy, I will NOT pay first. that is just asking to get screwed. if I dancer asks I will show her that i have the funds but I want to make sure that I get what I pay for. if she insists, there are many other choices in the club. I know too many guys that payed up front and got dumped..... also I will pay the price we agreed on, I might give a tip, but that depends if I have the money and if I really enjoyed the dance. but I tip a LOT on stage so I have usually givien a girl several dollars before she gets to my table. I also have no problem buying a girl a drink, I will often ask them if they want one, but I will ask what they want. I am not going to order a 20 dollar drink.... sorry....
This is a precarious subject b/c you have to use your instinct to figure out who will try to stiff you and who won't. Lots of time you may just be so busy you don't want to chance it. Case in point: a buddies regular ran up a $1200 tab last week with three of us and only had like $200 bucks in his pocket. He came back next day and paid us. He is a club regular though and some other guy ie-somebody passing thorough like a businessman or traveler wouldn't think anything of stiffing us cause he'd never see us again.
On nites when I ask for money upfront, usually 4 or 5 other girls have gotten ripped off and the bouncers are tired from escorting people out and calming angry girls, so I'll just tell the guy this and tell them to put the money in their top pocket or I'll run and put it in my locker, but leave my shoes with them on the couch so they know i'll be back. I give dances the same as usual b/c I expect to be paid anyway so I don't see any incentive to dance halfass now that I'm already paid. Depends on club and customer and situation.
I ask for my money upfront sometimes and other times I don't. It really all depends on my initial impression of the customer. If they seem kind of jerky, I'll ask for it up front, if they are polite and nice I ask for the money afterwards and if they would like another song. And of course if it is a regular of yours you don't ask.
Syn
The club where I dance has a "Pay First" policy, also. I never considered that I might be turning off customers by collecting between each song. Some of you mentioned that you remind the customer of his total every few songs--how do you do that without sounding obnoxious? I might try that and see if it makes any difference in the number of dances a guy will buy, but I don't want to piss him off by sounding pushy when reminding him of his dance totals.
I take the approach of preferring communication. A 1/4 second of saving "3 ringy-dingy" or "thats 2 would you like another" saves a lot of miscounts.
And I have corrected far more dancer undercounts than overcounts. I do not mind a "first dance up front" approach or a downpayment. I prefer that to getting interupted in the middle of a set by having to pay the house $15 bucks and all I have are 20s and the controller has no change handy producing 2 interruptions.
Any reasonable person won't mind "sharing the risk".
Hmm, lots of interesting input...Personally, since we have $20 dances, I usually say 'how many would you like to start out with? ' and list the club specials. After he picks, I say '$xxx please' and if they ask, say, as I was REALLY told when I was hired, 'it's club policy'. However, if they wish to continue beyond that point, I do not ask for the money up front but instead wait until after he's said he's finished with the dances. And, since my favorite room to dance in is all the way in the back of the club :D if he DID try and stiff me, it doesn't take long to catch up with him.
Now, as to WHY I always ask for the money up front is two fold. First, I have been ripped off before, and once was for $100. This 'regular' of mine came in and we did our usual amount and he said he wanted a few more and that he would get more money from the ATM when we were finished...Well, he said he had to go out to his car to get the card, and, you guessed it, drove off. I tried to talk to him about it later on, but he ignored me, and the mgr who had been on duty when it happened was never there when the guy came in. (personally, I think he had the mgmt schedule memorized.)
Second, if I have my money up front, it's easier to be able to deal with the uberhandsy types. I have a 3 strike system. First time, I tell ya you can't do that. Second time, I'll tell you that I already said no, and if you do it again, we're done. Third time, depending on how quickly we got to #3, I may either tell you "I warned you" or nothing at all as I walk out.
And for those who try the 'bad dance' excuse, I've never had anyone say it was a bad dance except when they found out I'm not "high mileage".