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Lap Dance Club vs. Conversation Club
Maybe I'm just getting annoyed lately, but here it goes. Why do we have to pretend to be "conversationers" instead of "lap dancers"? Do these guys really want to be our friends? I highly doubt it. Why do we encourage guys to come into lap dance clubs for conversation? Shouldn't these guys be charged a fee for conversation just as they are charged a fee for lap dances?
In Vegas I can always tell the guys that they can take me to vip for a conversation which will cost them anywhere from $100-$400. Usually these guys really aren't interested in paying for conversation.
I think that I might start telling these guys that I am a "lap dancer" not a "conversationer". I wonder what kind of responses I will get.
Anyone have any thoughts on this subject that they would like to share?
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Re:Lap Dance Club vs. Conversation Club
If I were a guy, I'd like to feel some connection besides sexual. I think that's what it is. They want you to wow them with your wit, charm, etc which makes them like you even more as a sexual object.
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Re:Lap Dance Club vs. Conversation Club
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Originally Posted by livenudegirlsunite link=board=9;threadid=5995;start=msg65300#msg65300 date=1074751579
Why do we have to pretend to be "conversationers" instead of "lap dancers"?
Well, to be perfectly honest, because it's your job. Much the same way bartenders are "therapists" for many people, so are dancers. Many men that come into the clubs are doing so to have fun, have a little conversation and enjoy the "party" Just to come in, throw down a bunch of $20 bills for a few lap dances and leave isn't fun quite frankly. There is a lot more to being an exotic dancer than just dancing.
Now, that being said, part of being a conversationalist is knowing how to direct the conversation. You shouldn't ever have a conversation for hours on end with any customer. There is always a point where chit-chat needs to eventually lead to a closing of a dance, series of dances, or a trip to the VIP room. Making your customers comfortable by chatting is the best way to make them WANT a dance, not feel pressured into one. My suggestion is to work your conversation into one that you know will never last more than a few minutes. Your entire conversation should be designed to slowly close the deal at the end of the conversation. I can tell you though, that if you are extremely effective in your conversation, you'll sell more dances and get more guys into the VIP room. Another suggestion is that if guys want to talk and talk but aren't interested in dances, by all means you should suggest that for your extended time, you need to carry the conversation in the VIP room. I know many dancers, my partner included, who frequently took guys into the VIP room and never once took an article of clothes off and the guys always left happy. Some gentlemen that come into the club are just looking for attention, not necessarily someone to do a striptease for them. Being an exotic dancer really is in some ways part therapist for many people.
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Re:Lap Dance Club vs. Conversation Club
I second that Miss George!
My best $$$ customers and my best $$$ regulars all pay me more for conversation than I make dancing. If you can make your customer feel special and important (this requires conversation) he will appreciate you much more than he would for simple titilation, and you will gain a regular. Thats how good dancers make consistant money night after night while the wannadance girls struggle with hit-or-miss nights.
Personality does matter in this business!!
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Re:Lap Dance Club vs. Conversation Club
I would like to also say "I agree".
The one consistent trait that I can link with all the times I've either been booked for hours or had extentions of lap dances is when I've encouraged conversation....
Then if you know how to direct THAT conversation right.. you can end up with people who will want just time to chat.
Sometimes exotic dancing isn't so much dancing as in helping give people pleasure... sometimes that involves just "lending an ear" to listen. Not enough people listen these-days and hence some people are willing to pay good money to have someone listen to them. Everyone likes to be heard... hence message boards and forums... hence customers that WILL pay for conversation.
Yet that doesn't mean to say there aren't customers who just want a lap dance.. yet the ones that book for an hour or more do want SOME conversation.
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Re:Lap Dance Club vs. Conversation Club
>>"I think that I might start telling these guys that I am a "lap dancer" not a "conversationer". I wonder what kind of responses I will get."<<
From a customer's point of view, that would be the last you ever saw of me or my tips! ;D
You are absolutely correct that the guys SHOULD be paying you for your time- be it friendly conversation, a lapdance or just hanging out. What men come to stripclubs for is gentlemanly companionship- whatever that may entail. A gentleman can monopolize your time in such a way that it's costing you money, but by the same token, establishing regularity with patrons is key as it's money in the bank from future visits.. so it's a balancing act that veteran dancers have learned. A dancer almost has to be psychic and intuitive, and it does come over time.
The more successful dancers at the clubs I've been to are all the ones with the most charm. Not necessarily the best lapdancers or the best looking- but the ones that are the most fun to be around. Even the lesser attractive women can make good earnings by learning to fill a more "hostess" role in clubs.
Putting on a mercenary mode like DW has explained works for newbies and tourists, but is a turn-off to veterans or regulars. Someone that is constantly (even if subtle) trying to steer a conversation away will lose even the most generous, regular customers as it removes the fantasy and become all business. Cheapskates that are wasting your time should be handled appropriately, but customers looking to spend money will be equally non-profitable if the focus is constantly on his wallet.
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Re:Lap Dance Club vs. Conversation Club
I know alot of guys who go to strip clubs are lonely. So they want to talk to someone who will is "safe."
But after awile i would think we as dancers should know our limit and move away from a guy who just wants to talk. Of course leave on nice terms, and come back for that dance!
Why not give yourself a 10 minute rule with these guys, because they like to get to know us on a particular level. Really. They feel more comfortable, and can decide if they like us enough to spend money on a dance.
Lotsa luck,
Pamela
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Re:Lap Dance Club vs. Conversation Club
My method is to pause the conversation, after no more than seven minutes, to regretfully announce that, "I am at work, gentlemen, and this is the point at which I either receive financial compensation for continuing to entertain you or move else where."
Follow this by standing up. If they want to spend money on you, this almost always gets the wallet pulled out of the back pocket. If they smile and say good bye, then smile, say that it was lovely to meet them , wish them a good time and maybe you'll check back on them later. The night is young, they might change their minds later. Of course, the more entertaining and fun you are then the less likely you will have to move on. I find that lots of guys are willing to plop a five, ten or twenty down to get a few more minutes, especially when they're having fun.
And don't quote that phrase exactly to young guys. It seems to be offputting to most people under thirty. Say instead something like "Well, boys, it's been fun. If you want the party to keep going then I have to be paid for it, otherwise I need to get back to work. I've already got three guys in line waiting for this table to be finished."
THAT gets them every time. Young guys usually (not always, but IME) have less to spend, but if you dangle that carrot of being the most desirable woman in the room before them then they WANTS it, precious. Every man has the innate desire to become a fucko.
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Re:Lap Dance Club vs. Conversation Club
Lilith, I think that you may rub guys the wrong way with that. While, yes, we are all about money, the trick is to make it appear that we're not. And customers are smarter than we give them credit for. Using that line that you have more guys waiting for you is a common sales tactic. I mean, think of times people have tried to use it on us...it can backfire (unless you really do have three guys waiting for you)
I think something more subtle is better like "well, I better get back to work and make some money" which implies that you don't consider spending time with them work, and that time is money. If they aren't a cheapass, they will get the point.
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Re:Lap Dance Club vs. Conversation Club
Part of the enjoyment of attending a SC is the fantasy of having beautiful women "Like" to be with you. And part of that is connecting on a personal level with conversation. I, and I'm sure many other guys, come back to specific women just because we somehow "connected".
I may be unique but I always offer to compensate a woman who sits with me for her time. I understand that she is working, and has to earn money. Once I went to a club and paid lots of money for my ATF to sit with me and just talk. I had a cold that day, and didn't want her to catch it, so we went to a "quiet" corner.
I also prefer to give my money directly to the dancer, rather than go to the VIP rooms. I know that about half the fee goes to the club, and if I only have so much to spend, I'd rather see the dancer get it than the club.
But that's just me.
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Re:Lap Dance Club vs. Conversation Club
Rather than debate this again, let me kind of describe what I think a proper introductory conversation should entail:
You should walk up to the customer from a vantage point where he can see you (never from behind). At about 15 feet away try to draw eye contact (look friendly and a bit seductive) and see if you get a response. If he's reciprocating, walk over and introduce yourself.
Dancer: Hello (offers a handshake), my name is ______. How are you toight? Could I join you for some company?
If customer says no, tell him to have a great time, and that you'll be around until _____ if he's interested in dances. If he invites you to sit down, thank him and do so. (In some clubs, this is usually the precursor to a drink hustle in which case, its always better to let the waitress ask him if he'd like to buy you a drink).
Regardless, the conversation should continue with something like this:
Dancer: Where are you from? What brings you here? So have you been here before?
These look like non-chalant questions but really they're not. This is clever information gathering. Questions like this will help you figure out what kind of customer this person is, whether he's a travelling businessman, a tourist, a lonely conventioneer, a guy who's just gone through a divorce, etc. You can then adapt your strategy accordingly.
This should last no longer than five minutes (take longer if you think you have him on the hook), after which you pop the question.
"You're cute. Would you be interested in going to the private dance area for some dances? They're $___ each." If he says no, excuse yourself with something like,
"Well sweetie, I do have to go attend to a few things. I'll be here until _____ tonight and I'll be appearing on that stage later on. If you change your mind on those dances, come up and see me. My name is ______. Have fun."
Shake his hand again and move onto your next victim.
If he says yes, then congradulations you have a sale! You might get compensated for your conversation time (either with a nice tip or with multiple sales, or perhaps even a VIP session), or you might not. You should in fact expect not to be paid for this time (but if you get it more power to you). Even if you only sell 1-2 dances, thats better than nothing, esspecially if that customer brings more money to spend on you during a return visit. Most regulars aren't made overnight.
Mainstream businesses do these types of things all the time. Its advertising, a gimmick, a promotion if you will, to get the wheels greased to get customers on the hook. Without putting forth such effort as a dancer, a gal probably isn't going to be making those sales to a lot of guys, particularly the ones who have the most money to spend.
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Re:Lap Dance Club vs. Conversation Club
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Dancer: Could I join you for some company?
Hell no!! That is a lame line....
Lilith, your pitch is awesome! Thanks...I will use it for the talkers.
Also, in my club, the only payment for VIP is that the patron buy a bottle of champagne. I get no commission off the champagne, and there is a high expectation for sex back there. BUT, the waitresses push that bottle so hard, because they get commission.
Hence...if a customer is going to pay me for my time, he really has to make an active decision to give me money NOT to take my clothes off. Its certainly happened, but not that often. Shit, if I was the customer and Katrine was the dancer, I would DEFINATELY want to see her hot ass nekid....meow!
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Re:Lap Dance Club vs. Conversation Club
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Originally Posted by Katrine link=board=9;threadid=5995;start=msg65890#msg65890 date=1074902943
Hell no!! That is a lame line....
There are perhaps better pitches to butter a customer up, but lame or not, that line (or something like it) has been used by many a dancer with great success. Let me quote Mariah from another thread:
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Originally Posted by Mariah link=board=8;threadid=6010;start=msg65575#msg65575 date=1074819953
I often ask customers "Can I sit with you" or "Can I join you" because of the fact it is harder to say no to. Most of the time after a few minutes of talking to me the guy is willing to buy a dance. It helps me get a dance or two off guys who have been turning all the other girls away.
Admitted it lacks originality, but it beats the hell out of saying "wannadance" without breaking stride anyday.
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Re:Lap Dance Club vs. Conversation Club
What polecat said. The dancer I have the fondest memories of wasn't the most attractive woman in the club by a mile, but she had tremendous charm and just exuded a sense of fun. She didn't give "extras", and she didn't toy with guys emotionally (she had a boyfriend and made sure everybody knew it), but she was just a blast to be around. And I made damn sure that the vast majority of the time I spent with her was paid for.
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Re:Lap Dance Club vs. Conversation Club
Very good iideas. Thanks everyone for your advice. I was just getting really annoyed working a crappy shift while waiting for my main club to open up again. I was coming across a lot of cheapskates. I'm glad that I made this post. Sometimes I just don't like to have major discussions because the guys will think that I wiill meet them outside of the club. Maybe I'll start saying that I have a serious boyfriend.
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Re:Lap Dance Club vs. Conversation Club
Don't say you have a serious boyfriend. That's a buzzkill. If they think you'll meet them outside the club, they are retards that will think that anyway. You will lose out on money if you say you have a serious boyfriend because you ruin the fantasy.
If you must, say you have several boyfriends and there's simply not enough time in the day for another.
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Re:Lap Dance Club vs. Conversation Club
Hey Live Nude Girl. pleeease don't tell guys you have a boyfriend. These guys like to think you are available. I have a few regular customers who see me when I come to town and spend money that I let call me on my cell phone. Others I just brush off. If you have some good customers phone communication from time to time can help you line up times to meet them in the club.
Being in LV though, what percentage of your customers are from out of town? I would just string them along and get them talking about their lives and talk about yours minus any boyfriend or husband.
I know it gets hard, but this business involves handling the guys with kid gloves just to get them to spend money in the club.
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Re:Lap Dance Club vs. Conversation Club
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Originally Posted by doc-catfish link=board=9;threadid=5995;start=msg65882#msg65882 date=1074901526
Regardless, the conversation should continue with something like this:
Dancer: Where are you from? What brings you here? So have you been here before?
These look like non-chalant questions but really they're not. This is clever information gathering. Questions like this will help you figure out what kind of customer this person is, whether he's a travelling businessman, a tourist, a lonely conventioneer, a guy who's just gone through a divorce, etc. You can then adapt your strategy accordingly.
Mainstream businesses do these types of things all the time. Its advertising, a gimmick, a promotion if you will, to get the wheels greased to get customers on the hook. Without putting forth such effort as a dancer, a gal probably isn't going to be making those sales to a lot of guys, particularly the ones who have the most money to spend.
Doc is VERY much on the right track here. These are skills often taught to sales people all the time. There are much more effective ways of saying the same things though. There are two teqniques involved called Eliciting Outcome Cold Reading, and interestingly enough, they are often a used by hypnotists, magicians, and your favorite "Talking To The Dead" talk-show hosts as well. We teach this skill in great detail in our seminars, and so I figure I'd throw one out here for everyone (without giving away the entire program of course). :)
To expand on what Doc was saying, you want to extract as much information from a customer as you can. The key though is to not make it sound like you are doing just that. As with any good level of communication, you want to say as much as you can by using the least amount of words possible. Therein lies today's "TIP OF THE DAY! :)
As per what Doc was saying, learning the most about your customer is the best thing to do early in the conversation. Instead of saying, "Where are you from? What brings you here? So have you been here before?", you can get the same information back by saying one thing. In place of those three questions, just say, "Hi, my name is _____ and I'm from ______. And you?" By default, you'll get the same information back. This is most effective if you are working in a club prone to getting lots of tourists. The typical response will be "I'm Bob from ______". So now you know his name and where he's from. You'll immediately know if he's local, from out of town, etc." What you project out you'll get back. It works very effectively in any level of communication. Another simple example is this (which really doesn't apply to this topic, but it's another example). Go introduce yourself like this some time and here is what the response will be:
You: Hi, my name is Cindy, and your's is?
Them: Bob.
Now, if you want different information, ask it like this:
You: Hi, my name is Cindy Smith, and yours is?
Them: Bob Jones
See the difference? The more you project in your questions, the more you get back and it's a lot more subtle. You can target your conversations a lot better and become much more effective in your closing of the sale.
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Re:Lap Dance Club vs. Conversation Club
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Originally Posted by Emily link=board=9;threadid=5995;start=msg65474#msg65474 date=1074808720
Lilith, I think that you may rub guys the wrong way with that.
Not in my experience, but we may be dealing with different customer expectations. I never fail to mention some sort of "pay-me" line to a customer, whether it is the above line or the "Care for a dance tonight" type. At some point I will ask to entertain them in exchange for money, period. Whether they care to be entertained by dances or conversation or buying me dinner is up to them. In my club, girls do not make good money unless they make sure to solicit business. Many stunning young women make piddly, in fact, by never mentioning money. Your suggestion is one I use often, but only to excuse myself from a table from which I already know no money is forthcoming. It isn't sufficient here to induce spending; the customers expect you to ask for it rather than wait for them to make the leap.
I offered two "pay-me" lines based on customer age, both saying essentially the same thing, not because the essential idea was off-putting but rather that younger men do not like the wording of the former. It's too many big words. Not to insult younger customers, but they usually get turned off by obvious intellect whereas an older man interprets five-dollar words as a class act. That is variable based on the individual, but I know by the end of seven minutes which line would work best.
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Re:Lap Dance Club vs. Conversation Club
I totally agree with doc! Hey, were you reincarnerated as a dancer?? ;D I loved the advice. I think the line "May I join you in some company" is a great line for the older crowd which usually has the money!! :-*
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Re:Lap Dance Club vs. Conversation Club
i agree with miss george. i have made sick money simply talking to guys in the vip. most of the guys that visit sc's, remember, are lonely and looking for a sexy chick to hang out with & look at. if he can have a good conversation with her, that is just going to open up his heart AND his wallet alot more. a dancer's good listening skills are priceless. it's all about what you say, how you say it, and piling on the charm that gets them hooked.
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Re:Lap Dance Club vs. Conversation Club
I'm still new to dancing, 1 1/2 months at an upscale stage dance club. The clientel is mostly wealthy, and I am attractive, and love to have a good conversation ranging from sex, to politics (carefully), to the Atkins diet. I am not "pushy" though, I know I am not maxing out my potential, I often sit and chat for a bit and will not get compensated, even for a 10min sit and talk, People who often tip me $5-$50 will sometimes not even tip me, so I am unsure of what I should to to maximize my money making. I got a bit buzzed the other night and actually asked for money, thigh and garter moved forward for a deposit. I got 3 $20 and other tips I would not have ordinarily gotten, but I am not necessarily comfortable in pushing for money this way. Any thoughts? Again, I am always complimented on my dancing, my body, my face, my mind, my conversation, and friendliness, but 1/2 the time I am tipped little to none for my effort.
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Re:Lap Dance Club vs. Conversation Club
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Originally Posted by Emily link=board=9;threadid=5995;start=msg65320#msg65320 date=1074754953
If I were a guy, I'd like to feel some connection besides sexual. I think that's what it is. They want you to wow them with your wit, charm, etc which makes them like you even more as a sexual object.
are you a new dancer or something? guys come in to a strip club for sexualness!!!!!! not to talk,act sexual,act slutty,that's what they want,don't be a prude,otherwise you won't make any money!
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Re:Lap Dance Club vs. Conversation Club
Sure...acting slutty isn't the only way to do it...but trust me, they ALL want you to act slutty..it may not be your hook line, but acting like an ice princess after 5 + dances is not going to get you the big bucks....
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Re:Lap Dance Club vs. Conversation Club
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Originally Posted by darkness link=board=9;threadid=5995;start=msg73073#msg73073 date=1076624981
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Originally Posted by Emily link=board=9;threadid=5995;start=msg65320#msg65320 date=1074754953
If I were a guy, I'd like to feel some connection besides sexual. I think that's what it is. They want you to wow them with your wit, charm, etc which makes them like you even more as a sexual object.
are you a new dancer or something? guys come in to a strip club for sexualness!!!!!! not to talk,act sexual,act slutty,that's what they want,don't be a prude,otherwise you won't make any money!
I also disagree. Different people want different things, and a good dancer knows this, a great dancer knows how to provide exactly what her man of the moment is looking for.
I just had a V.I.P. the other day witha guy who wanted to romance me awhile I played hard to get. He sang 2 songs for me and read me some of his poetry, we chatted in the V.I.P fo r about an hour. This guy wanted someone to LISTEN to him. He needed an object to project his fantasy on and because I was more open to playing along with him than sticking to the basic "shake my booty,show my tata's gimmie your cash goodbye" deal I was able to get him in V.I.P.
Everyone including our wonderful customers wants to feel special and interesting and cared about and to enjoy themselves. If men just wanted sex they sure as hell wouldn't be looking for it in a strip club-cause the chances of getting it are slim to none. If you want sex that you have to pay for go with the sure thing--call up a hooker.