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Re:Contact Dancers: How do You Feel About Contact?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayanna link=board=27;threadid=7817;start=msg89914#msg8991 4 date=1080674711
It seems to me that the typical ( not all ) customer respects the contact dancer more, just take a look over at SCJ :-\ there are several of them that say they wont buy an air dance at all.
Sadly to me it looks like a few of them maybe even go so far view a no extras dance as completly worthless
Thats obviously not a true representation of the overall customer base since air dances are bought everyday... but it does make me wonder
The same base of voters on SCJ also voted strongly for all choices where "mileage" was the last concern on the looks, personality, mileage poll. With the least concern being "mileage" yet a strong discord of air dances- one might think this is a conflict, but in reality it speaks volumes towards the real point.
A desire for contact I'd figure would be a unanimous thing, as it has been shown. So while you may see unity across the customer base for contact, the similarities stop there.
Air dances are at least partially subliminally disrespectful and dehumanizing. Keeping 4' distance from another human gives the feeling of being diseased, plagued or otherwise unsavory. Humans are comfortable with hand contact, hugs or even a close twirl on the dance floor with total strangers, yet in non-contact stripclubs four feet of distance maintained feels awkward. Aside from the misogynist creeps, even the upper-scale gown club customers sipping champagne would be satiated with their hostess sitting next to them and even an arm draped over versus them sitting across the table. It's a normal and very human thing. It seems no-contact is punishing everyone for the customers with bad BO, horrible breath, inappropriately dressed or who are grabby and rude.
So while everyone may be all for contact, it doesn't mean everyone intends to grope, fondle or lick anything... some do, but not all.
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Re:Contact Dancers: How do You Feel About Contact?
Quote:
Originally Posted by polecat link=board=27;threadid=7817;start=msg90743#msg9074 3 date=1080850412
Air dances are at least partially subliminally disrespectful and dehumanizing. Keeping 4' distance from another human gives the feeling of being diseased, plagued or otherwise unsavory.
I was an air dancer for most of my dancing career and I never saw a 4 foot distance being the norm in any of the clubs in which I worked. Yes, there are some distance laws of 6 feet, 2 feet etc, but that just isnt the reality of what happens. Air dances ( as I saw them done over the course of 7+ years in several parts of the US) were done inches away from the customer for the most part, not several feet.
I also have a big problem with customers blaming and punishing dancers for not doing contact in no contact clubs. >:(
I tried contact dancing and HATED it , but it did open my eyes and mind and helped me tame my tendency to be judge others so it was a good experience after all.
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Re:Contact Dancers: How do You Feel About Contact?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brittany link=board=27;threadid=7817;start=msg90348#msg9034 8 date=1080769429
gosh...with the dances you are doing...I'm pretty damn sure that you are making 1K a night....if that's the amount of money that it takes to compensate you and make you feel as though the "job" is worthwhile...I'm so very glad that you are able to make it and be happy.
[snip]
that they don't have to do this in order to make money
If that's not a condescending attitude I don't know what is. The kind of dances I'm doing? Geez you make it sound like I'm fucking all the customers or something. Don't have to do this to make money? No, probably not. They could also flip burgers or run stuff through a scanner and make change all day for minimum wage. Or they could TRY and get hired at one of the squeaky clean clubs where all they have to do is let guys appreciate their 'work of art' LOL but then, those clubs can't possibly employ all dancers. The simple reality is that 99% of customers don't go to those clubs, won't ever, and they aren't paying to visit an art gallery when they go to a titty bar! Most of us are at least ok with what we're doing, after all we make the choice to do it.
Quote:
However....there is a HUGE difference in letting people TOUCH this body and just letting them LOOK at it.
You can pay to see a performance artist do her "thing" but you can't pay to touch, degrade, debase, or exploit that same artist....I have the same bounderies.
BIG BIG difference between letting someone just look at me as a work of art or as something beautiful to be appreciated, and letting guys touch and feel and get off to my body...BIG BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!!
Remember these are YOUR morals. Other people don't appreciate being judged by YOUR morals, the same as you don't appreciate other people looking down at you because you take your clothes off. For LOTS of people, just taking their clothes off in public for strangers is degrading, debasing, and being exploited.
Yeah I got a tad defensive. I'm thinking there are other girls here feeling the same way, they just don't say anything. This is a diverse world and not everyone shares the same ideals.
>>Added: You refer to the members of the religious right as the ones who feel the mere act of taking your clothes off for money is immoral. Well I'm here to tell you there are far more people than the extreme religious right who feel that way. I've known and met alot of them, who would be considered very liberal by religious right standards, but they still feel disrobing for money is wrong. Also in your references your attitude comes off implying that those people's beliefs are wrong and/or ridiculous. Well I feel that your morals are wrong and ridiculous for me. The point I'm trying to make is stated above, not everyone shares the same ideals, what's right for you isn't right for everyone else.
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Re:Contact Dancers: How do You Feel About Contact?
I totally agree, Bridgette... :thumbsup:
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Re:Contact Dancers: How do You Feel About Contact?
as much as i'd like to be brittany in my stripping adventures (the girl who doesn't do much, but still makes piles of money), i've come to understand that in sex work of any sort as in life, all the girls can't do that. it doesn't mean some might not want to get away with it, it only means that due to scarcity, you'll never have a scenario where all the girls get to play untouchable artwork and still make lots of money.
with stripping as high-volume as it is presently, though my personal goal is maximum sales skill and minimum contact, every girl out there cannot possibly have the right combo of looks+sensual/sexual appeal+sales skill to get out of having to occasionally offer contact to make above average to excellent money.
it's because the other girls are doing more that brittany CAN bank doing less. perhaps it's just my impressions from this site and the clubs i've been in, but a common thread is that most girls who make lots of money don't do it off 20 or 30 guys a night-- they do it off less than half a dozen. no way is there enough wealth to support all the girls who choose to get naked for money under such circumstances. basically the other girls subsidize her no/low contact behavior. it's the sadly more rare upside of no-contact girls subsidizing high-contact girls. other girls could take her stance successfully if, say, 3/4 of all strippers just up and quit tomorrow and no replacements turned up. but until then, a few girls will have the luxury of no/low contact, and the rest will have variant levels ranging from low to high contact to deal with in order to make money. and this assumes all strippers want no contact ideally, disregarding the women who like low or medium or even high contact because they prefer to touch their customers.
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Re:Contact Dancers: How do You Feel About Contact?
I have always said, and I continue to say, that if a stripper doesn't like her job, she should change it. Period. I have also always said that strippers should keep within their own boundaries / comfort zones. If a girl is grinding or getting fondled or sucking cock under the table or whatever to make her money and she isn't comfortable with it, she needs a good hard slap in the face (not literally...) and to rethink her priorities, to say the least. I have seen my share of girls doing the nasty for some shithead and then being upset / crying about it later. It is stupid IMO, and anyone who thinks they have no other choice should not be wearing the stilettos!
I don't disagree with you in theory, but the reality is still that most girls cannot make decent money in this biz offering zero contact. It is just not going to happen. There is too much competition and that is not going to change. Even if everyone suddenly started doing air dances, most would revert back to contact eventually because there is so much competition (far more now than in the 90s when contact was less prevalent). Also most girls in this biz don't have quite the issue with contact that you do - most aren't really bothered by low-medium contact or one-way contact in my experience, so if they find they make better money by offering some level of contact, they're going to do so.
ALL of the girls I've seen upset or feeling bad about something they'd done for a customer were doing way more than simple lapdancing. I am quite sure these girls will have issues long after they hang up their heels. But I believe that most of us who stick within boundaries where we're comfortable will be just fine later on. I reiterate that any stripper who does something for money she's not comfortable with needs to re-evaluate.
I do also agree that most girls could learn to make the money doing some degree less than what they currently do if they have the desire and drive. I'm talking mainly about those doing high contact and extras now, but theoretically even low-medium contact girls could as well. But in reality most girls don't have the drive to do so, or like me, they don't mind offering certain levels of contact and are happy with their situations. So they most likely would see a decrease in earnings if they tried to change.
I believe that if all level of contact is removed from the equation, so will be most customers and their dollars. This business is not even comparable to what it was 10 years ago. Too many managers willing to look the other way, too many clubs, too many girls, too many customers used to getting contact. Competition leads to increased service in any business. In our business, that means increased mileage for the most part. Customers aren't going to stop demanding contact if the supply dries up. If all girls stopped offering contact, customers would still want it and would either use luring tactics (as they already do) to get what they want or stop spending. Then some girls would start supplying again because maybe they weren't having any luck elsewhere at the moment, or the rent's due or whatever. Customers would spend more money more easily on these girls. Before you know it more girls would start again because they see the others doing it and making more money. So a few girls will always be able to make money offering low or no contact by separating themselves from the pack, but the pack is still going to have to get on it so to speak.
Brittany, I think I've been pretty civil throughout this debate, so please don't mistake some minor defensiveness as an attack. I do feel you've displayed a degree of elitism on this subject, and I admit I find that annoying as do many girls. I can read and understand very well what you say, but the attitude I'm seeing comes from not so much what you say, but how you say it. Certainly I can disagree with someone and not have personal issue with them. Hopefully you can do the same.
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Re:Contact Dancers: How do You Feel About Contact?
I guess here we will have to agree to disagree Bridgette.....
Yes, I have seen girls get upset over doing lapdances. Yes, in my experience most of them don't last long in the biz if they are lapdancers.
I do disagree that most girls are happy offering contact, most would prefer it if they didn't feel that they had to do so for the money (here we will have to agree to disagree)
I also must disagree with the implication that most no-contact as-a-rule girls look down their noses at contact dancers...most "clean" dancers that I have known don't think badly of you guys, though some that I have met (and these were mainly girls in NYC and Chicago, again...my personal experience), looked down completely on contact dancers to the point where they looked down on anyone who would even work in a club where there was contact, even if they weren't doing it.
Now....do I wish the girls who continually dry-hump some guys in the hopes of doing the dance to ummm "completion".....would get a clue? Hell yeah, I do...I'll admit to that, but I don't think that this girl is less of a person to me (even if she's enjoying it). I have nothing against prostitutes at all...what someone does behind closed doors is their own business. Do I wish I didn't have to see breast-feeding, fondling, fingering, and the occasional bj every time I go to work? Hell yeah, I do.....I wish all of these girls would just get rolodexes and be escorts somewhere so I wouldn't have to watch it when I went to work. I'm just not that big into watching other people doing sex-acts I guess...don't like to even watch porn (unless I'm making fun of how fake it is..lol) These are the things I have to see where I work...it's much more than the girl who does the three second rule when she grinds...lol
I will AGREE with you - however (hallelujah!) that some form of contact is necessary in this business. Even "air" dancers will touch the customers arms, shoulders as they lean up to him, etc. I also don't think air dancers are given enough credit here....to do an air dance and still have a satisfied customer at the end of it...is a WORK OF ART in progress...all the eye-contact, the sincerity, not to mention..learning how to (how did someone put it here?) twirl around and around in front of guy - without it seeming boring, trite, or unfeeling.
I do see a trend (as some other girls on this board have attested to) of a back-lash occuring in some parts of the country. More and more city governments are getting tired of the amount of contact going on in the local clubs. Sooner before later more and more girls are going to have to be doing less contact to avoid getting into trouble when the vice comes in after new ordinances are passed. I've been in clubs in cities where the guys came in and just started handing out tickets to girls who were grinding, letting customers touch them, etc. These girls now have this on their permanent records. I feel safe with the knowledge that dancing the way I do no matter where I am, I won't be getting one of these tickets (I once had a TABC officer watch me the entire time I did a dance in VIP in a club in Texas as the club was being raided, to no avail....heh heh.
And no....I wasn't taking your defensiveness as an attack...just wondering why it was there, and why a different point of view than your own was being met with such antagonism. I saw the personal issue going on here to be with you against me, and not the other way around. I don't have any problem with you doing what you do (as in my mind you are a low to medium contact dancer), as you probably wouldn't have any problem with me coming into your club and being a no - to low contact dancer...lol...
Allthough you would be surprised...I was at work the other day, and a girl dancing next to me that came over from another club looked at me doing a dance (she was just sitting there with the other guy) and said "Get on it girl! Jump it and ride it already!".....I mean really.....I calmly explained to her that I just don't ever do that. The customer I was dancing for then promptly paid me $80 for the two dances I had just done in a row....and I was off to do more dances at the next table for the next song...ah, revenge is sweet...lol
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Re:Contact Dancers: How do You Feel About Contact?
I have to allow it if I want to make big money
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Re:Contact Dancers: How do You Feel About Contact?
i little off the subject but i love bubba i literally grew up listening to him on the power pig 93.3,he got kicked off there.i havent heard anything lately because i dont listen to the radio anymore.oh well
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Re:Contact Dancers: How do You Feel About Contact?
Brittany-
Just drop it, will ya'? There is no reading miscomprehension going on because the kind of attitude you give off is one of high-horse, prima donna. Considering yourself pedestalized enough to be seen/not-touched or that customers aren't good enough to put their grubby hands anywhere on your person aren't traditionally well-liked principles in stripclubs and definately not a high selling point.
I'm totally with you on the fact that NO dancer (or any woman for that matter) should ever, ever have their boundries breached by customers, adopt a policy of "most revenue for least amount of work", nor do anything that makes them uncomfortable. If this is a problem, dancers should switch clubs, move to a new region or get out of the biz. This biz is obviously not for everyone and it takes incredibly strong will, high self-esteem and unbending spirit to work the clubs.
You are advocating completely and utterly false expectations to newer girls, and in the process creating a model that requires 46 million to one odds to get the perfect balance of hustle, region, salespersonship, club model, customer type ratio and customer expectations in order to achieve what you have been achieving. It's negligent and condescending to advocate such insanely rare conditions AS IF they are models that can lead to success coast to coast or for every stripper/exotic dancer.
In terms of an analogy, you're basically someone that has won the lottery (.. or bullshitting) and advocating that everyone can too. It's unrealistic, builds the wrong expectations, and is unfair to the women busting their ass everywhere and providing one-way or limited two-way contact in order to get their sales as the dynamic for their club or region insists upon. Moreover, women that are comfortable with this and are making decent money should be in no way discouraged that what they are doing is somehow "dirty" or "unsavvy".. I'd like to see how well your "look but don't touch" principle would get you in San Francisco. You'd be pick-pocketing the panhandlers outside for spare change to make stage-fees.
And yeah- if I were one of Bridgette's co-workers, I'd hate her guts too. It would be a constant source of jealousy for how hot she is, how the customers all think she's a great person and how she banks.
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Re:Contact Dancers: How do You Feel About Contact?
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Re:Contact Dancers: How do You Feel About Contact?
Hrmm.. Brittany had a reply I read that was in place of the above street sweeper edit.. it only existed for a couple of minutes. I felt it was well worded and had some very good, heart felt effort put into it. I'm very sorry it was deleted... and I feel absolutely aweful that a reply to my post was deleted, while my original that inspired it still stands. I'm sorry Brittany since that is very unfair to you.
Off the top- I appologize for the spirit of my last post as it didn't come out as constructive as I'd hoped. The intent wasn't to accuse Brittany of being a prima-donna/high-horse directly, but pointing out that was a fairly naturally perceived air from her posts.. which is surely unintentional on her part.
Her reply brought two things of importance to clarify:
-An assumption that I'm an SF/contact seeker, which I am not. I'm an ex-bouncer that has followed dancer friends from club to club. If I had it my way, there would be substantially less contact between dancers and customers.
-My inclusion "(.. or bullshitting..)" was not an insinuation or accusal of her lieing about her earnings. It was only to be complete and list all the possibilities for the given lottery analogy (people lie about winning the lottery all the time.. I'm sure dancers have known many heh). I will clearly state that I have absolutely NO doubt Brittany does as she says, and did not mean any intention of accusing her portrayals as being lies. Brittany has made it very clear she considers her situation/geographic very lucky.
I hope these will resolve or at least semi-relieve some of the grievances given in the deleted reply. I appreciate the reply since it did notify of several issues from which I didn't have any intentions of giving, but can see now they could be easily interpretted as such. Once again, I'm very sorry.
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Re:Contact Dancers: How do You Feel About Contact?
I work at a medium contact club. While we're on stage the guys can't touch us AT ALL... it can only be one way. Then while we sit we usually will play with them by a friendly hand on the knee or thigh... but don't really let them touch. But, when we take them back to the lapdance area... 2 way touching's allowed. But only what we say is ok... the only rules the club has are (of course) ::) the guy can't bring his junk out or imphasize it (does anyone get that?), no touching the genital area, anus area, & our thongs stay on. The dancers at my club have different comfort levels. Mine - I'd say - would be normal... I usually only let them touch my legs, butt, hips, stomach, and back. Unless they're really nice with tips & whatnot... then I'll let them touch my nipple rings for a very short snipit. LOL, I think it's a fun tease! :D Hm, - yeah I think that's all I have to say.
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Re:Contact Dancers: How do You Feel About Contact?
sorry to say, but the reputation that strippers get for being "dirty sluts" is because of high contact/grinding dancers. It makes the clean girls jobs harder. My friends will always say "that girl must be a slut, she let me feel her ass...I wonder how many other dudes she lets in her pants.."
This is not to insult anyone, but the next time you girls complaine that people think you are in a dirty or low profession, you have no one to blame but yourselves (if you are a contact girl)
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Re:Contact Dancers: How do You Feel About Contact?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio link=board=27;threadid=7817;start=msg91610#msg9161 0 date=1081016582
My friends will always say "that girl must be a slut, she let me feel her ass...I wonder how many other dudes she lets in her pants.."
In the south bay, where contact is not allowed and distance is enforced, the guys say they are sluts for wiggling their bare tits to anyone waving a dollar. In the nude juice bar, they are sluts because they'll show their pussy to anyone that walks through the front door.
To the shallow, misogynist creep portion of the customer base- strippers are going to cast as sluts, tramps, whores and referenced as promiscuous no matter what. Men that do this feel entitled to the ego boost it affords them as they feel it goes along with paying for the experience. This portion of the customer base doesn't go to strip clubs to see pretty women and patronize them; they go in order to release their misogynist aggression.
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Re:Contact Dancers: How do You Feel About Contact?
Oh here we go again...
Ya know what? The clean dancers can stay clean in their clean clubs, and the contact or so called "dirty dancers" can stay at theirs.
I love how condescending everyone is when it comes to a contact dancer (Im talking of one who doesnt provide extras)
Its so funny how we all talk shit about each other but the rest of the normal world sees us ALL the same. LOL I find it hysterical. lmao
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Re:Contact Dancers: How do You Feel About Contact?
I'm with you Lexi.... whether we provide no contact or high contact.. it doesn't really matter in the end.
I was 'raised' in a moderate to high contact environment... so I personally have no problems with that type of lap dancing. It does have its place. I quit that environment only because I want to experience other environments.... where there might be the same or less contact than what I was 'raised' (as a stripper) doing.
I personally don't see the 'no to light' contact dancers above those of us who do not mind providing moderate to high contact dances.... each person is an individual and hence each person has their own tolerances.
Remember people TO EACH THEIR OWN. There is no 'right or wrong' in this way... just each person's opinions.
;D
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Re:Contact Dancers: How do You Feel About Contact?
Pan Dah, I hear ya. LOL I know about the arrows, but I just think that it doesnt matter. Obviously if I worked in an upscale club with no contact I would do "JUST THAT" and abide by the rules. Same as where there is contact, I will abide by rules. I would never do extras, even if they were rampant in the club. Thats one line I wont cross, BUT I do think its silly that people still degrade girls who do contact dances. Who cares? if a dancer is ok with contact, provided that its ok in the club, what is she doing wrong?
Pan Dah, btw, I love pandas and koala bears. lol
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Re:Contact Dancers: How do You Feel About Contact?
It's true Lexi, we are seen the same by everyone unless they become familiar with stripclubs & begin drawing distinctions between contact clubs and no contact clubs. I think your average customer and non-strip club customer are too busy with their own lives to spend much time on the issue. They are either oblivious to the whole thing or tend to put all dancers in one category. So if someone feels that dancers are "sluts" or "prostitutes", that's not gonna change whether this dancer works at a high-class or working-class club. That's why I feel in one sense Britney is lucky in that she works at a no-contact club and makes good money there, but on the other hand I feel sorry for her, because most guys would laugh at the "my body is a work of art" thing. A stripper is a stripper is a stripper to most of them. Not breaking the rules of your own club is excellent advice (obviously!) and even further, having the courage to do only what YOU are comfortable with (which may be a lot less than your co-worker). Anyway, I like Britney's encouragement on doing all the other positive things to make more money because I think they are true!
Just curious as to what the person who started this whole thread thinks of all that has been discussed....
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Re:Contact Dancers: How do You Feel About Contact?
[
Remember people TO EACH THEIR OWN. There is no 'right or wrong' in this way... just each person's opinions.
;D
I totaly agree GCG..
... since I don't do any feature shows anymore and I have to stay in one town I have no choice but to do lap dancing. That is all what's in my area.
So what to do? I get use to it..
...besides whats wrong if you actually touch someone or someone touchs you? Maybe they are lonely men who wants to feel close to someone? Whats wrong with that..many times I feel like I am therapist :optimist:.
What I have problem with is that some girls and boys don't have any bounderies... :pessimist: And club owners are pretending like nothing is going on... :blindfold:
With contact dance you have to have a high selfesteem to say no to stuff that bothers you. But still make the $$$. :cool: And girls who are able to do that... good for them!!!
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Re:Contact Dancers: How do You Feel About Contact?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexi link=board=27;threadid=7817;start=msg91734#msg9173 4 date=1081044204
Pan Dah, btw, I love pandas and koala bears. lol
;) Being an Australian.. and since the Koala is one of my country's native animals... I just had to correct this:
It is just Koala. Not Koala Bear.
Sorry... saying that as well as saying that New Zealand is just part of Australia (New Zealand is its own country) is just two things I have to correct alot of Americans about... ;D 8)
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Re:Contact Dancers: How do You Feel About Contact?
hahaah GCG, thanks for that correction! ;)
So I love panda bears and koalas! hehehe
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Re:Contact Dancers: How do You Feel About Contact?
:P :-* :'(
Girls need to stop letting dudes touch them for money. its nasty. i make lots of money and no one even touches my legs in the private room......
Slutty girls should be escorts.
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Re:Contact Dancers: How do You Feel About Contact?
Quote:
Originally Posted by daphned link=board=27;threadid=7817;start=msg92341#msg9234 1 date=1081187741
:P :-* :'(
Girls need to stop letting dudes touch them for money. its nasty. i make lots of money and no one even touches my legs in the private room......
Slutty girls should be escorts.
Wow! Thanks for the advice... :sarcastic:
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Re:Contact Dancers: How do You Feel About Contact?
Daphned!! :argue:
you need to stop using my avatar, you are doing it a huge disservice, especially with your bullshit prudeness. That sexy hip has been touched many times, and is quite pleased with itself!! :sly:
Kat (I swear I am going to stick a fist up one of these bitches's ass if they don't stop judging the girls here!!) :grumpy:
>:( >:(