Re:does this sound unfair?
whoa that does sound unfair. So lets say you DID miss the 3 dances, and you owed 7. (35 plus double is 70) and then you work that night. Are you supposed to pay for THAT night as well. (im guessing yes)
DAMN thats HARSH!!!!!!
What if there are no guys in the club? ( like a slow night with 5 guys???)
Re:does this sound unfair?
yes... you always have to pay. and if you dont pay for your house fee by midnight, the DJ calls you to the DJ booth once every 5 minutes for 10 mins. then once after every set... it can get to be quite embarrassing because people know what that means... guys won't dance with you if you're getting your name called over and over again because they know what's up. girls clamor to the ATM machine to get the money out or just wind up borrowing the money from eachother sometimes because you absolutely can not pay your house fee at a later date... if you don't have it by midnight you're practically fired!
Re:does this sound unfair?
Wow, girl that just sounds very wrong.
Firstly they sound like they dont CARE about the girls, and not only that they make it pretty darn stressful no? Its stressful enough as it is trying to make your OWN darn money, imagine worrying about the club pushing you every 5 minutes?
Im sorry to hear that you and your girls have to deal with this if its a slow night. :( Thats very sad
Re:does this sound unfair?
FUCK THAT...find a new club.
Re:does this sound unfair?
Yes, that is terrible. That seems to be how at least half of the clubs in SF operate. Where are you from, if you don't mind me asking?
Re:does this sound unfair?
Starz, that does sound unfair. If I were in your shoes, I would find a new club to work at. If a lot of dancers leave, they will realize that they need to change the rules in order to keep dancers. Good luck.
Re:does this sound unfair?
I don't know anything about California, but to me that sounds crazy!!
It would sound ok if the club was always packed, but that is a lot of money out of your wallet. Some managers need to get a grip. I think they turn to these practises when they know the club is going down.
I hate hearing about how money hungry waitresses, managers, bouncers, and djs get. They all need to realize that we work for ourselves and we are the ones who are naked and dancing around in seven inch heels.
Re:does this sound unfair?
It's hard to tell if it's fair or not without knowing what you take home every night.
If you can make a lot of money at that place, then sure it's fair.....consider Scores. I think that if a dancer is taking home at least $300 on a consistent basis, then she's doing alright in her club.
Re:does this sound unfair?
Hmm.. I'm going to have to go against the grain a bit and say this payout structure sounds a LOT more fair than most Deja Vu models or similar bigger clubs.
The only real question in the matter is the penalty system, and only you can answer if that is fair or not. It would depend solely on how difficult it is to adhere and if customer traffic makes the baseline quota doable for most of the dancers.
As far as payout goes, it's a sliding scale that, if I did my math correctly puts house cut at 50% right around 20 dances (assuming NO tips). I'd think 20 dances in a 7 hour shift should be cake if customer traffic is decent.. more dances drops the house cut even more. Adding the flat fee + DJ fee, it kinda looks like:
Code:
Dances Total Tipout Dancer House Cut
====== ===== ====== ====== =========
10 150 100 050 67%
15 225 125 100 56%
20 300 150 150 50%
25 375 175 200 47%
30 450 200 250 44%
35 525 225 300 43%
40 600 250 350 42%
If customers tip fairly frequently, and the stiffer penalties can be totally avoided, it seems like a cut/tipout that is superior to most all Deja Vu models.
Miss Jessica-
Quote:
Yes, that is terrible. That seems to be how at least half of the clubs in SF operate. Where are you from, if you don't mind me asking?
Some of the SF models may seem from the outside to be high, but most women I know working under the flat rate clubs prefer them over commission clubs, especially during peak business.
Flat models are at some of the bigger clubs, but with seemingly high flat cut (anywhere from $150 to $400 a shift). These may be shocking to the $10/$15/$20 dance models, but realize out in SF, most dancers dont get anything under $20 a dance, and more often fetch $40-$80 for VIP, topless or nude, and even the bikini only joints are "3 for $100" style pricing models. Even with some of the $400 flat clubs, house cut can be 33% or lower in peak traffic which is pretty kick-ass anywhere... or it can be 80%-90% on dead slow nights.
Clubs that really suck are the ones that have commission cuts (which SF does also have several), as most are targetted at a 45-66% house cut on average, even worse if CC/funny money takes an additional hit as well. This seems to be the nationwide Deja Vu model (i.e. flat fee PLUS tipout PLUS dance cuts PLUS CC/funny money cuts). Flat rates are always preferred in high traffic clubs, whereas commission models can be less stressful in lower traffic clubs.
I think a small project that would likely be of INCREDIBLE benefit to the ladies of StripperWeb would be if some of our fellow geek/nerd dancers could start tracking their total vs. fee+tipouts and start reporting their house cut percentage (after everything, including tipouts). This still gives dancers total privacy over their actual earnings, but could be useful for everyone to compare their house cuts versus other house cuts geographically. Privately owned stripclubs seem to have the best cuts (some around 20-33%), whereas the bigger clubs and chains seem to normally hover around 45-55%. Having such a resource around could help dancers determine what clubs allow them to see the most of their earnings versus fee's, tipout and commision cuts.
Just my $0.02
Re:does this sound unfair?
I wouldnt work there unless it was constatnly packed...
Re:does this sound unfair?
You're basically getting bent over and f*cked. Sorry but it's true. I pay 10% to dj 5% to bar and 1 dollar house fee. Some clubs charge 25 house fee but they don't take out a percentage on the dances. Like it used to be for every 20 song the bar would get 4 bucks. So of course I charged more. It really depends on what club charges what. I've worked at so many places but paying for not even showing up? Are you on pay roll? If not you're an independant contractor. I'd tell them to shove that 100$ charge where the sun doesn't shine.
Re:does this sound unfair?
I think your club sounds not only unfair & stressful...but embarassing. Not to work there or anything, but just the DJ calling your name into the booth all the time... and the customers know what that [email protected]!? Yeah, I'd say find a new club.
Re:does this sound unfair?
That's horrible. Not only does it seem like they're taking a lot of money from you, but they have to make it stressful as well:( Have you looked at any of the other local clubs run to see if it's similiar? I would definitely look into other clubs.
:(
Re:does this sound unfair?
I pay $100 house fee before I start working, then pay $20 to the DJ, 20% of champagne room money to the Champagne Guy, and 20% of floor dances to the house again at the end of the night. I might part with almost half of my money, but the earning potential is insane. I don't mind it so much.
Re:does this sound unfair?
Is your club a juice bar or alcohol club? The greed factor you mentioned is somewhat high for an alcohol club. that forces the girls to pressure the guys to spend.
I've worked at a club in Indy where we had to go on schedule 3 days a week and could work the rest of the nights at out own discretion, but we were not fined for missing work. Of course the decent thing to do is call in sick, not just fail to show up.
At that club there was no flat payout, just $3 per dance or 2/1 and 10% to the dj, and miminum payout was $12 if we sold 4 or less dances.
You are in a high pressure club and if the business is good ok. But this business we're in is up and down and in down times which are more and more prevalent nowadays, dancers are really getting f**ked.
I am used to a flat payout club where the DJ gets $5-$10 and you can work as long as you want for one payout. Not flat payout and per dance fees. To hell with fines. I don't deal with that crap. That sucks. Either a flat payout OR per dance fee not both.
Re:does this sound unfair?
You make a good point Polecat..... Broadway seems to have the majority of those "commission" based clubs. I discovered one I love, it's so pleasant to be at and management is very fair. A rare find in the city!
Re:does this sound unfair?
It seems to me that this club is making its money off the girls...
Isn't that what customers are for?
Re:does this sound unfair?
WOW just find a better club that system is crazy!! Do your reserch there are plenty of clubs out there that don't anal rape you like that. Case in point. My club says we have to claim 140 for an eight hour shift. At twenty dollars a dance that is only seven dances. Then we get 52 dollars on that commision that we use to tip the managers, DJ, house mom. After your first seven dances you keep everything. Every 20 of the dance, tips from dances, tips on stage. No stage fee. Plus that 140 a night we claim goes twords our taxes not the club. The real kicker is we get payed 5.15 and hour. My check is only like 40 bucks for two weeks because they take alot out of your check for taxes. Find a club like this usually they serve alchohol and can pay for the club's expenses through that so they don't have to rob the dancers.
Re:does this sound unfair?
Just guessing, but I bet the state's Department of Labor would consider it unfair, too.
Re:does this sound unfair?
I agree that you club's "dance quota" system is nothing different than a second house fee. If you're required to pay a $40 flat house fee plus a $50 "dance quota" fee plus a mandatory $10 DJ tipout every night that adds up to $100. As others have posted there are a lot of clubs which charge much more than that in nightly fees and tipouts, with DejaVu, PEC, SCORES etc. being well known examples. And as anyone who has worked a slow night at SCORES can tell you, they demand their nearly $300 for stage fee and mandatory tipouts paid to allow you to work again the next night even if you only earned $100 and you have to make up the difference out of your own pocket! Personally I consider this to be little more than extortion, however the clubowners argue that it maintains the "quality" of the dancers by effectively driving away girls who are less popular with club customers thus less able to sell private dances/champagne room trips. At any rate, if there are other girls willing to pay the fees and tipouts and take your place on a moment's notice, it does no good to complain.
Besides the mandatory nightly fees, your club takes a 25% cut of private dances from the 11th dance on up (the first 10 dances are included in the nightly fixed fee). This is also lower than the 33-50% percentage kept by many clubs. In fairness, this boils down to an equation of total money paid to the club versus total earning potential. You'll have to judge for yourself whether a club environment which requires a $300 fixed nightly fee/tipout with 0% club cut, versus a $100 fixed nightly fee/tipout with a 25% club cut, versus a $20 fixed nightly tipout with a 50% club cut amounts to more earnings potential based on the club's clientele and your own ability to "compete" selling private dances/champagne room trips to that clientele vs. other dancers. Bottom line is always "how much money on the average do you walk out of the club with at the end of the night ?".
Many girls think nothing of paying a $300 a night fee and tipout if it allows them access to upscale customers so that they can earn $1000 in the champagne room, pay 0 of this money to the club, pay maybe $50 of this money in other tips, and walk out of the club with $650.
At the other extreme, some girls prefer to work in a club with a $20 tipout but a 50% club cut to avoid the possibility of being caught "negative", however this typically means that they might sell 20 dances at $20 each, then pay $220 to the club in tipout and percentage, thus walking out with $180. In the case of your own club, this would mean paying $100 in fixed fees/tipouts, selling 20 dances at $20, paying 25% club cut on 10 of those 20 dances = $50 (the first 10 dances are covered under the $100 nightly fee), thus walking out of the club with $250. It all depends how likely the club's environment is to the possibility of selling at least 20 dances on the average.
Re:does this sound unfair?
Quote:
Just guessing, but I bet the state's Department of Labor would consider it unfair, too.
Involving the DOL is a two edged sword. On the one hand, to abolish the fees and fines the dancers would have to be deemed "employees". On the other hand, "employee" dancers could be forced to perform private dances for free as a condition of their employment, meaning their earnings would stem from a minimum wage hourly pay plus stage tips (with the club keeping 100% of private dance money)! In reality, clubs with "employee" dancers usually wind up charging a 50% club cut to allow dancers to keep some of the money they earn performing private dances as a "sales commission".
As the above example showed, this zero fee high club cut percentage setup only benefits dancers who sell very few private dances and penalizes popular dancers who sell lots of private dances. Over time such a setup tends to drive away higher "quality" girls to other clubs where they are allowed to keep a larger amount of the money they generate (but perhaps pay a much higher fixed fee), which negatively affects the remaining dancers' earnings potential over time because the upscale club customers are likely to follow the primo dancers to different clubs.
You are right that the zero fee high club percentage setup is the only one which guarantees that dancers will always earn money under any circumstances, versus the possibility of being caught "negative" on a slow night and owing the club more money in fees than they actually earned. However, this setup also pretty much dictates that none of the dancers in this club are going to earn significant money on a good night, because the club always has it's hand out for 50% of whatever the dancers earn.
I'm pretty sure that, rather than involving the DOL, that if StarzLittleAngel and her fellow dancers were strongly against the $50 "dance minimum" and the $40 stage fee, that their clubowner would be receptive to the proposal to abolish the "dance minimum" and lower the nightly stage fee in exchange for raising the club's percentage of private dances from 25% beginning at dance 11 to 50% beginning with the very first dance. This would benefit the dancers on very slow nights, but would benefit the club on busy nights - creating a strong incentive for the club to do some things (like advertise) to make sure that the club is busier !
Re:does this sound unfair?
If they require you to pay the house fee by midnight, all you have to do is keep enough on hand every day to pay that WHEN YOU ARRIVE at work. I always have a stash of cash to pay my house fee and a few extra bucks at all times. At the end of the night, when counting my money, I put that same amount back and don't count it as part of my earnings. It is, in my eyes, not my money so I never spend it or use it for anything but going to work. There is positively no reason a dancer should not be able to pay her house fee upon arrival.
My club also charges a small penalty for not paying upon arrival. IMO that is not unreasonable. If alot of the girls in your club are scrambling at midnight and hitting the ATM to pay house fees, y'all are doing something way wrong. Don't spend every dime you have every night! Hitting the club ATM costs money too. I'm quite sure the clubowners have figured out that the lazy / less together girls will always hit the ATM at midnight, which puts money in the owner's pocket via ATM surcharges!
The one thing I have a problem with is the mandatory dance quota. The way the have it set up, your house fee is in effect $90 (40 + 50 for 10 dance commissions), plus $5 of every dance after 10. If there is enough business in the club to justify this kind of payout, then it's ok. But if they're charging these prices and girls are regularly making less than 200 per night, they are WAY off base and you need to find a new club.
Regarding the penalties. If girls are regularly not able to make the 10 dance minimum, there is a problem. Doubling the amount due the next day is bullshit. Sounds to me like the club may be just a shithole waiting to be closed due to poor management. You can't justify a 10 dance minimum (or a $90 house fee) if the customers aren't coming through the door to support it. Again, they could get the same money by upping the house fee to $90 up front and taking $5 of every dance after 10. But I'm thinking they don't do that because they don't have the business to justify a $90 house fee.
Customers will always say that sort of arrangement is totally unfair because they don't understand the business. I don't think this setup is as bad as it sounds at first, assuming the spending customers are there to support such high fees and allow girls to make a decent living.
But for me personally, I have a problem with the tactics employed here, and I'd be finding another club!
Re:does this sound unfair?
Wow!! Where are you? I'm in Washington state at Deja Vu and they are notorious for ripping us off nationwide, but even more so in a no alcohol club, but we still dont have it that rough!
Good Luck.
Re:does this sound unfair?
Quote:
But for me personally, I have a problem with the tactics employed here, and I'd be finding another club!
I would agree ... the mandatory three full nights per week dancer schedule would tend to indicate that this club already has problems attracting enough dancers. If selling 20 dances is a near impossibility versus a typical nightly occurrence, given the $40+$50+$10 fixed fees and tipouts structure, it's definitely time to seek out a different club !