Re:AQ claims another American
Bloody: I was talking about the WHOLE middle east, not just part. I know very well a "clean sweep" of part would cause more problems with the rest. And I know it's a super extreme idea, but I can't help feeling it anyway. Get rid of the middle east and it will no longer be a problem. I know if we did that the way others see us would be bad, but ya know what? LOTS of others ALREADY see us in a negative light, and as I said before, we are already seen as assholes for going over there in the first place. So if you're gonna look like an asshole, might as well take care of the problem altogether instead of doing it half-assed and still looking like an asshole, PLUS leaving the MAJOR potential for being bitten in the ass again. Get rid of it and it can't bite you in the ass anymore. Yeah it's a damn harsh notion, but like I said I'm tired of caring.
Re:AQ claims another American
Bridgette, it does seem harsh to me, but I do understand the point of view due to all the suffering (on everyone's part) that's going on. I guess I can't resign myself to feeling like that at the moment. I'm sure if I knew someone who'd died I might feel differently.
Everything sucks, no matter what happens. Bleh.
Re:AQ claims another American
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Originally Posted by Rhiannon link=board=1;threadid=9118;start=msg109586#msg1095 86 date=1084629795
I definitely say bring our people home. Even that won't be a quick process, but the decision needs to be made to get them home. Get them home, and close our borders. Screw the rest of them.
I was against the war from the beginning, I think the millitary did a horrendous job of planning it, and I hate seeing our soldiers returning in body bags for the interests of a select few here who will be profiting from their blood, but I'm sorry IMHO we can't just leave now, that is the absolute worst thing we could do, it would leave Iraq in turmoil, it would leave the whole middle east in turmoil, the terrorists will spin it as a victory for allah and islam and will no doubt sign up new recruits by the boat load, and worst of all they will know that we don't have the stomach for violence and will use to their advantage going forward which will lead to even more problems. We cannot cower to the bastards.
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Originally Posted by Bridgette link=board=1;threadid=9118;start=msg109578#msg1095 78 date=1084627434
Anyway, I say carpet bomb the whole damn area and be done with it. Yeah it's harsh. I'm tired of caring.
Given what I said above, I still don't think killing millions of innocent people is the answer here either. I wish there was an easy answer, unfortunately there just isn't.
Re:AQ claims another American
Who says they're innocent? You said yourself the extremists among them would be signing up recruits by the boatload if we pull out now. IMO it's already happening and the majority who don't 'sign up' with the terrorists agree with them or at least don't care. I firmly believe that VERY few are sympathetic to our position. I have been around alot of middle easterners and believe me when I say, from what I've seen, most HATE americans or at least don't give a rat's ass if we're exterminated and would applaud it for the simple fact they are annoyed at our position in the world.
Re:AQ claims another American
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Over the past 24 hours, I have heard various pundits all over the spectrum, from the revenge seekers calling for the US to “nuke the <expletive deleted>” to apologists claiming that the group that carried out the beheading was a rogue group, and the incident is an aberration, since “Islam is a religion of peace”.
I checked the Arabic forums to try and try and gauge the reaction to Zarqawi’s actions. There was one posting from a jihadi who had mixed feelings about the killing, and asking for validation that it was in fact in accordance with Islamic law. It was quickly answered with a flurry of postings citing fatwas and sunnah validating the act as being something not just allowed under Islam, but demanded by Allah.
The other postings were even worse. Here is a short list of some of the comments:
Abu Mus'ab Alzrqawy carries out his work in a wonderful way
Allah is the greatest, Nik Berg, the American citizen, who cut his head in Iraq, is a Jew
These will please your eyes with these pictures of the neck of the apostate being cut
A glory that shook the tyrant’s thrones by what our hands did!!
If someone wants to kill you, do you sit around and let them do it, or do you fight, and kill them first if you have to?
Re:AQ claims another American
I just have one question.....
If I give AQ or the Iraqi's or some other terrorist organization directions to my ex-bf's house, will I be arrested for treason?
:mad: :thinking:
Re:AQ claims another American
They were fired, and rightfully so. People like that make things like WAR seem as if it is "funny" or "ok". Glad to hear that they were fired for being such insensitive assholes.
Re:AQ claims another American
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I definitely say bring our people home. Even that won't be a quick process, but the decision needs to be made to get them home. Get them home, and close our borders. Screw the rest of them.
Personally, I happen to agree with this approach in the short term - although it will likely result in conditions worsening in the rest of the world to the point where we'll be drawn into World War 3 eventually.
But closing our borders and restricting foreign trade will have an immediate price tag in exchange for added security here in the US. It will mean gasoline shortages/rationing again. It will mean abandoning many of our environmental policies in the short term, drilling for oil in ANWR, construction of pipelines, burning lots of coal. Above all it will mean construction of many new nuclear power plants, which is the ONLY proven technology which is cost effective and does not rely on fossil fuels and does not spew NOX and CO2 and particulates. Without these short term changes, the economy of many areas of the USA (notably California, the midwest, and the northeast) will come to an abrupt halt as commuters will not be able to obtain enough gasoline/fuel oil/electricity to continue driving to work, heating their homes, or keeping the wheels of industry turning. Prices of food or anything else requiring large amounts of energy to produce will skyrocket.
While IMHO these changes would be very good for America in the long term, I doubt that the short term pain involved would be willingly accepted by the majority of registered voters. However, the majority of registered voters haven't figured out that one major objective of the war in the middle east is to prevent their family finances from dropping to poverty level due to vastly increased energy costs. But at some point, the facts will come out that we can't have it both ways.
Re:AQ claims another American
My question is; How do you win a war against people who have no regard for human life?
Re:AQ claims another American
Make the Middle East a glass bottom parking lot.....
Get the oil from Siberia, Canada, and Venezuela....
I work with many, many Middle Eastern people, and I see a variety of personalities. I have been becoming impatient and cross having to deal with some of them and I think its because of the war and what is happening, and the media, and social pressure anti-Arab sentiment around. I hate this, but I cannot deny it, and don't have any solutions other than the extreme ones already mentioned.
Re:AQ claims another American
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Originally Posted by Bridgette link=board=1;threadid=9118;start=msg109601#msg1096 01 date=1084633742
I know if we did that the way others see us would be bad, but ya know what? LOTS of others ALREADY see us in a negative light, and as I said before, we are already seen as assholes for going over there in the first place.
This is really the truth of the matter. While the Euro nations and Arab world already call us "cold blooded, Godless killers" every single day, wiping the whole damn area out would make us actually earn the bullshit they've been slinging for years.
And that's what really pisses me off the most about the hypocrisy- sending in ground troops for man-to-man fighting with heavy US casualties and using surgical precision air strikes still earns the US a bad reputation abroad. If there is to be no recognition for this approach, then for crying out loud send a squadron of Apache's in and dish the kinds of justice we're already taking credit for.
One thing about the USA; we've got technology for killing people down to a science. We can roll tanks across the dunes at 75mph, and scramble helicopter and fighter jets out and blow shit up from 25-50 miles away without spilling the commander's coffee in the field.. or just send the cruise missiles in from the Gulf and watch the play-by-play from Satellite. It's absolutely deplorable that the choice of taking civilian casualties into consideration at the obvious cost of American lives receives no attention or mention, but instead the exact opposite.
Re:AQ claims another American
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My question is; How do you win a war against people who have no regard for human life?
If history is any teacher, there are two examples to choose from. In the case of the Japanese government in the 30's and 40's, we drafted every able bodied man in the US into the military, we fielded a 500,000 man army in Asia, and we nuked 'em - TWICE ! In the case of the Soviet Union, we bankrupted the government via an arms race to the point where their own people revolted. However, since the middle east is full of oil and since Osama already has billions socked away, plan #2 probably wouldn't work. I guess that leaves plan #1 !
Re:AQ claims another American
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Originally Posted by Madcap link=board=1;threadid=9118;start=msg108484#msg1084 84 date=1084404180
Civillians are regarded by the whole civilized world as being off limits as a potential military target. Sure, a few deaths are unavoidable, but going out of one's way to kill civillians is called a "Crime against humanity."
Yes, it is, and I want those five f**kers dead. But letting that video incite us to turn the Middle East into a glassy plain is not the answer.
These pigs who savagely killed Berg represent the worst the Arab world has to offer, and they are not alone, but if the USA tries to take its vengeance on the Middle East as a whole, we are giving those 5 militants exactly what they want.
These guys are swine, and so are those who back them, but the ability to cruelly slaughter innocent people is not just an Arab trait. We are of course infinitely superior as a nation to al Queada. But, sorry, "Crimes against humanity" do exist in our past, much as it seems to be a heinous transgression to bring it up--to the tune of several hundred thousand incinerated in WWII fire bombings. Let's not start again now because of this horrible video.
There were films made of Japanese and Nazis torturing and killing their prisoners, some of them Americans. Fortunately for us all, these were never released, or we might have slaughtered millions of civilians instead of damned close to a million as it was. Yes, the Japanese brought it on themselves, but if we had followed our baser instincts to a greater extent, we wouldn't be driving Hondas or watching Sony TV today--there would be no Japan.
We should not let this monstrous criminal act do what it is intended to--incite a bloodbath and drive those on both sides into a murderous frenzy.
If those two rednecks had made a video when they dragged the black guy to death behind their pick-up truck in Texas, there would no doubt be a great deal more violence against whites in this country, leading to more against blacks. And on it goes...
"Fuck it, kill 'em all!" is the natural human reaction, but it is not the best one.
Re:AQ claims another American
Whatever. It's the only one that REALLY works. To quote Metallica: Kill em all!