The two strangest politicians
The two strangest politicians are Ross Perot and Ralph Nader. So you understand my motives I don’t’ have any on this thread other than I dislike influential people who change what should of happened in elections or in events. Example Bush The First should of won in 1992, but lost because of Ross (“World Class”) Perot and his strange (and short lived third party.) Was this all truly because Perot didn’t like the Bush family in Texas? Without the equally strange Ralph Nader and his truly dangererous third party (“The german originated Greens”) Al Gore would have beat Bush the Second in 2000. Having splinter parties distort election results is very very bad.
I am against Bush II because of the master he serves. Wall Street and the World globalization community have been pushing world globalization on Americans with no thought and more importantly no plan on how to transition us into it, other than just dumping displaced Americans into the economic maelstrom. For this he must pay the price of losing. Eventually Wall Street will “get it” and produce some sort of transition assistance. To be clear, Clinton did nothing on globalization other than to push it so he is also guilty.
They will have to do assistance on a smaller scale for German and England anyway in the future so they might as well start an organized process of transition to jobs in third world countries for American workers. After all letting India and China have jobs and enter the world economy is better than fighting them off in a World War. But they need to have a plan for American workers and American industry which they don’t seem to have. If you really want to send a message just vote against every incumbent in Congress. If it’s a democrat vote republican. If your district has a republican, vote democrat. Please don’t waste your vote on a silly third party however.
If some pollster asks you why, respond that you will do this in every election until the government and (the economic system) comes up with a transition plan to help American workers and industry in the globalization shift. I suspect the consumer driven society of waste is on the way out. This is fine with me but I want to really know the plan not have it sprung on me.
More economic dislocation is on the way after the election folks. Be street wise like you are and send a message.
Re:The two strangest politicians
As if the two-party system, or even HAVING political parties AT ALL were the way things are supposed to happen, or the intent when this country was founded? The U.S. fell to a non-violent coup in the 1790s. The U.S. Constitution makes no mention of political parties, yet today, they control the activities in Congress. One can't even put a bill up for a vote without the approval of the majority party.
I don't think having ONE more option than a dictatorship is what anyone since the Greeks had in mind by democracy (a true one). I'll stick with my third party vote when appropriate. With 5% of the vote, Nader will get Federal money for the next time around, so I hardly consider it a waste.
Re:The two strangest politicians
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Originally Posted by Niceguy link=board=1;threadid=9200;start=msg109367#msg1093 67 date=1084565984
If you really want to send a message just vote against every incumbent in Congress. If it’s a democrat vote republican. If your district has a republican, vote democrat....
If some pollster asks you why, respond that you will do this ...
I am not that sheeplike. I will decide on whom to vote by the best person qualified, in my view, on the ballot. Thanks anyway.
And I don't talk to pollsters. I agree with the principle of the secret ballot, and that's all they need to know from me.
Re:The two strangest politicians
Imagine a Congress with 75% of all congressmen and 1/3 of all senators new, but from districts that were controlled by the other party but now aren't. Would drive the financial lobby from wall street nuts. I'm sorry a third party vote, especially in 2004 is wasting your vote.
Re:The two strangest politicians
Voting your mind is never a wasted vote. Dictating the votes is the antitheseis of our political system, and thus I will have to pass. Gore and Bush the Elder may have won if those who voted for another were refused that option, but I shudder at the political system which refuses to give me options.
Re:The two strangest politicians
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niceguy link=board=1;threadid=9200;start=msg109367#msg1093 67 date=1084565984
If you really want to send a message just vote against every incumbent in Congress. If it’s a democrat vote republican. If your district has a republican, vote democrat. Please don’t waste your vote on a silly third party however.
I've heard this "vote against the incumbent and well change the world" rubbish before. My four term Republican House Rep won with 91% of the vote last election, so I assume that means a lot of people like what the guy is doing. Do you really think that I stand a chance of overturning that?
If I had my way, I'd abolish geographic Congressional districts altogether and replace them with a proportional representation system. Third party candidates would then get a fair fight and it would put an end to gerrymandering.
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If some pollster asks you why...
I don't talk to pollsters, as my vote is none of their damned business. I in fact wish that they would all be shot as they are a needless component of an evil election industry that way too much money is spent on.
Sorry, but I don't want Dubya back for another four years, and Kerry's best attribute at the moment seems to be that he isn't Dubya. Voting for a third party is my way of saying "neither of the above" since those words don't actually appear on my ballot.
Re:The two strangest politicians
Doc,
I always lie to pollsters to screw them up. I tell them I support a candidate different from the one I support and describe my socio-economic situtation to as massively distort the results as possible. I like the proposed theory of countering, but only to pollsters. If the polls blow things totally maybe they will stop doing them every 5 seconds.
Sme with registering for websites (except SW Pryce). The Washington Post thinks I am a 99 year old woman living in Ohio. Cuts down on targeted ads. 99 year old women don't buy much the typical Washingtonian does.
Unless I can screw things up legitimately such as the Arbitron survey where I told them I watch the History Channel exclusively for a week. Take that Alphabet Channels!
Re:The two strangest politicians
I agree. Nader is really not just against Bush though in his opnion, as kerry is equally in bed with many of teh special interests that Nader dislikes. He doesn't think things are that different and would rather start hacking away at the two party system. If he runs he'll have my vote. I'd take Kerry over Bush, but they are really pretty similar.
Re:The two strangest politicians
Monty I did the TV thing once. I was a Nielsen household for a week in the mid 1990's. Only they didn't realize i had a satillite system
with the major networks on east west because I was in an area not served by cable and beyond broadcast range.
I kept copious notes in the diary and sent it in. For instance I watched (and really do watch) alot of star trek, Voyager and Deep space nine. I watch WNBC News New York (Channel 4) but I live in Chicago area. I watch KCBS News LA sometimes.
I time shift all the time or used to until ABC dropped out of the waiver allowing me to see their signal.
We got a very confused call back from Nielsen and they threw out my
diary as being "non representative" of TV watching.
I was in the vanguard of the not watch TV when its scheduled van guard but they threw me out.
If Nader had an once of decency he would explain why he is running
to allow the republicans to win.
Re:The two strangest politicians
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I'll stick with my third party vote when appropriate. With 5% of the vote, Nader will get Federal money for the next time around, so I hardly consider it a waste.
George W. Bush would like to thank all of the Nader voters in advance for helping secure his re-election by a 5% margin !
Re:The two strangest politicians
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Originally Posted by Melonie link=board=1;threadid=9200;start=msg110034#msg1100 34 date=1084747163
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I'll stick with my third party vote when appropriate. With 5% of the vote, Nader will get Federal money for the next time around, so I hardly consider it a waste.
George W. Bush would like to thank all of the Nader voters in advance for helping secure his re-election by a 5% margin !
Fortunately I don't hate GW, so he's welcome! I'll be content if GW is reelected and Nader gets his 5%. I guess I hate the two-party system as much as you hate GW Bush, so that explains our respective votes. :)
Re:The two strangest politicians
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Al Gore would have beat Bush the Second in 2000. Having splinter parties distort election results is very very bad.
I don't think thats necessarily true. The media's decision to call Florida for Gore before that state's polls closed cost BUsh thosands of votes. With over one hour remaining before the polls closed in the ten heavily republican Florida counties, ABC, CNN, FOX news, CBS, MSNBC, and NBC all incorrectly declared that Gore had won Florida.
John R Lott of the American Enterprise Institute concluded:
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"as many as 7,500 to 10,000 fewer votes than he would normally have expected."
I think Bush would have won with or without Nader, and probably will again.
Re:The two strangest politicians
George W. is an idiot, Kerry looks like a mortician and Nader, well, he's Nader! I think that I'm going to write in Melonie for president, that's where my vote is going!