Just a quick article. We here in Florida (parts of) come together and do our best for these dogs! Vets, and owners.
Pamela :D
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Just a quick article. We here in Florida (parts of) come together and do our best for these dogs! Vets, and owners.
Pamela :D
Other one did not show up...Here it is. JUst wanted to say that alot of us vets and owners to come together for these dogs, and all dogs actually. It's great. My vet LOVES pitbull dogs. As far as eating them, well, glad i live here.
Pamela :D
Cruelty to animals is a MAJOR warning sign for deeper troubles. I think Jeff Dahmer was tormenting and killing animals before he graduated to killing and eating humans. Son of Sam shot the neighbor's dog (he was obsessed with that thing). That stuff should send up alarms bigger than the Titanic on a crisp night out with the ice...
I stand behind my statement that NO BREED is bred to be violent. It's not a naive statement, and it's IGNORANT to say otherwise. I know quite a few breeders who would back that up. Greyhounds are not bred solely for their speed, they're just simply USED for it.
Rotties, Akitas, Bulldogs, Pitbulls and all the other larger breeds get the media attention when they bite someone, because they are intimidating in size and pretty much don't take shit from anyone.
If you are attacked, do you not defend yourself?
Frankly I'm tired of debating this issue, because I could be banging my head against a brick wall and accomplishing the same thing. Some people don't get it, and never will.
I know I know! It was an accident. In the near 200 posts I've made I think it was the first time, so please forgive me. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by sander8son link=board=1;threadid=9242;start=msg111411#msg1114 11 date=1084982000
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhiannon link=board=1;threadid=9242;start=msg111516#msg1115 16 date=1084991031
I personally think this is the best way to handle the issue. I love Pit Bulls as I know many sweet ones. I also know that they kill people at the drop of a dime too. The issue here is two fold. The logic of "There are no bad breeds, only bad owners" goes only so far. Some breeds just have a propencity to violence. It's a fact. Now, that instinct can be tamed, and yet it's still there. It's up to the owner to do so. The issue is a bad owner of a golden retreiver will not produce a dog that, generally, will kill people wheras the same thing cannot be said about pit bulls. Why is it that you think the dog of choice for fighting is a pit bull and not a shit tzu? The reason is the breed is bred to be violent. It's the design of the body from the muscles all the way down to the locking jaw.Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLDiscoLawyer link=board=1;threadid=9242;start=msg111450#msg1114 50 date=1084985894
Actually, I've heard it's dalmnations also. The difference is a bite from a dalmnation or a cocker spanial will not leave you paralyzed or dead. A bite from a cocker might result in a few stitches and a tetanis shot. A bit from a pit bull might leave you 6 feet under as they instinctively go for the throat and do so with the intention of leaving you dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pamela link=board=1;threadid=9242;start=msg111456#msg1114 56 date=1084986247
Okay, fair enough. I missed it. SORRY. Jeesh.Quote:
Originally Posted by velvet link=board=1;threadid=9242;start=msg111432#msg1114 32 date=1084984636
OF COURSE there is always going to be an exception to the rule. I never said there wouldn't be. I've seen dogs of all breeds be viscious. That's not the point though.Quote:
Originally Posted by SCGirl link=board=1;threadid=9242;start=msg111458#msg1114 58 date=1084986580
Let me explain to you the bigger picture here. It's more than just the disposition. It's also the dog's ability to do damage with that disposition. There is a physical element to this here also. It's the same reason a german shepherd doesn't run 45 MPH like my greyhound. Why? Because of the years and years and years of breeding has designed one dog to be fast and one dog to herd animals. Pit Bulls have had breeding to make them strong and have the ability to do huge amounts of damage when they attack. Nobody is denying the fact that other dogs have different levels of aggression. It's just their ability to act on it and what they do with that agression is what the end result is.Quote:
Moral of the story DO NOT!!! tell me that these other dogs are more vicious because of genetics. YES, like I said, 10% IS genetics. The dogs have a PREDISPOSITION for certain things. HOWEVER, NO dog has a "VIOLENT" predisposition.
Ah, and to elaborate on this point, many people can effectively make a point that pit bulls are not completely domesitcated much like wolves. I think that's one of the basics behind the whole argument as to why people are wanting to ban them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexi link=board=1;threadid=9242;start=msg111491#msg1114 91 date=1084988447
You are patently, 100% incorrect on this issue. For example...two greyhounds race faster than any others. They are bred so that they will have fast offspring and so on and so on and so on. This has been taking place for over 4000 years. Can you now explain to me how this isn't breeding a variety of dog for speed? That's what breeding means! Every variety of dog is different because people at one point in time liked a quality of a certain breed and bred similar dogs to enhance that quality. Now you have a new breed of dog. Plain and simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhiannon link=board=1;threadid=9242;start=msg111516#msg1115 16 date=1084991031
sadly I can not read all the posts in this topic... however if you would like to check out other animal cruelty sites:
http://kfccruelty.com/
http://www.iamscruelty.com/
I would like to remind everyone that this is a discussion. No need for personal attacks here. Discussing an issue is a relvant task in and of itself. I for one have learned a lot in this thread. But that some her choose to attack the other members whose viewpoint is unshared by labeling then ignorant or callous seems a bit funny for us unempathetic guys here. Did you not see the posts detailing what doc has done saving these animals and working toward adopting and rescuing these animals, but because his opinion differs from yours on an issue the attacks fly. :irked:
just for the record i am unempathetic. or at a minimum apathetic. some would say simply pathetic, but i'd have to disagree with them. so, how do you like your horse steaks cooked? i prefer mine medium.
I haven't even read the thread and I'm sick of horse slaughter already. At this point I'd support a bill calling for the slaughter of all horses worldwide to terminate the species just so I don't have to see "BAN HorseSlaughter!" all over the forums. :)
Umm....have you considered the fact that it's mainly SIZE that seems to be predominant in this "violence dog" argument? If Pit Bulls are so deadly, why aren't they used as attack dogs by the police? Why is it always German Shephards? Have you SEEN what a GS can do to somebody's arm???? But for some reason, you don't consider these dogs dangerous.....why is that? This argument boils down to the dog equivalent of a sumo wrestler and a midget. Should Sumo wrestlers be banned? I mean, they're "bred" to be big and tough. And yeah, midgets can be bad little mo-fo's....but can they do as much damage as a sumo wrestler? NO! Does it have anything to do with genetics? Not past physical size it doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by DancerWealth link=board=1;threadid=9242;start=msg111534#msg1115 34 date=1084992496
The sad part of this is, who the hell are we to play "God"??Quote:
Originally Posted by DancerWealth link=board=1;threadid=9242;start=msg111542#msg1115 42 date=1084993023
Why BAN an animal? Wtf? Because of a few bad people who raise thes animals? I dont think so. I would be damned if someone wanted to put down my dog, I dont care what it is. People are fucking pathetic. We should ban most of THEM.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Yes breeding means making a dog a "certain" way, however pits are under working, guarding dogs. Not VIOLENT dogs. They can be trained. But theres no need to ban them.Quote:
Originally Posted by DancerWealth link=board=1;threadid=9242;start=msg111546#msg1115 46 date=1084993299
and just for the record, ATL, Im not personally attacking you. ;) Just the a-holes who wanna ban pits and such. :peace:
To answer Scgirls post. ;) German Shepherds (which i have as well) do better as a "police dog" because they are not as high strung. Terriers are very high strung, and riding around in a vehicle during a shift would be hard, as they need to move more than a Shepherd. Also, Shepherds are NOT strong biters, actuially weak, and lets no loophole for a law suit. More intelligent...No.
We have a few pitbull terriers that are "Bomb dogs" and good at it. But for a bite dog, they have too much strength. They are easily trained and will back off, but get to hyper during a chase (remember terrier, lots of energy.) so a shepherd always fit well.
They kinda stuck with the breed also because many people just look at a Shepherd and say "oh police dog." They like that as well! No shit.
Pits are great for police work, but stay hyper far too long. The Giant wired haired breed of terriers are hyper too diuring work, and used in Germany alot, but the bite hold is not as strong as a pitbull terrier.
You simply have to put the breed of dog were it belongs. And pitbulls love a family setting without long periods of being left alone. Sounds like any other dog doesn't it? ;)
Oh because a breed is bred for many generations for a certain "task" does not insure that particular 'dog 'has any of those traits. :) OK, i love my pitbulls, and Shepherds! Not everyone will. :'( Forget the bad spelling errors....
Pamela
Good point. There is a very good reason for this. The police don't want "deadly" dogs. Pit bull are not stupid dogs at all. There are different kinds of "smart" though. For example, pit bulls and greyhounds are very smart dogs, it is just that they are more independent thinkers rather than obedience type of smart. Although both can be trained effectively, it's not in their programming so to speak. German Shepherds are used because of their strong ability to be controlled by a human verbally. Also, German Shepherds know how to bite someone without causing major harm. Pit bulls on the other hand have locking jaws with a substantially stronger PSI in their bite. The police don't want "deadly", they want a dog to subdue someone without causing major harm.Quote:
Originally Posted by SCGirl link=board=1;threadid=9242;start=msg111768#msg1117 68 date=1085015312
I completely agree. I never liked the idea of banning them. Due to the history of the breed though, I do think it is a good idea for people to have to register them in some way like they do in Cincinnati. This insures that some asshole isn't going to buy one, thow it in his backyard and never look at it again. THIS is how the breed gets violent is due to mistreatment. Then what happens is the dog gets out and hurts someone badly and everyone wants to ban them. Like my points earlier though, if the same thing were to happen to say, a golden retriever, they are still not as likely as a pit bull to go out and murder someone. Pits just have that button that's easier to push because of years of breeding them to be fighters. My friend's pit bull's name is Tootsie and she's one of the sweetest dogs I've ever seen in my life. She doesn't have a bad bone in her body, and that's because she has such a loving home. It's the bad apples you have to watch out for though, and that's why I like the idea of screening people to some degree who want to own one. Hell, if it were up to me, I'd screen every dog adopter but that's not possible. So you have to pick and choose to some degree with some breeds/owners.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexi link=board=1;threadid=9242;start=msg111808#msg1118 08 date=1085019674
In our greyhound organization (as with just about all of them across the country) we screen every single person who wants to adopt them. Mostly so that we can get the perfect fit of dog to owner. We profile each dog as we get them and see what their history has been, temperment, etc. Some greyhounds are trained with live rabbits as horrible as that is, so they are difficult to place in houses with cats or small animals because they have a strong prey drive. Other greyhounds live fine with cats, birds, etc. I used to have two ferrets and one of my greyhounds was scared to death of them so he left the room when I had them out. And there have been times where we have turned people away from adopting because we didn't think that a greyhound was the right breed for them. Now, the supply and demand of greyhounds to owners allows us to do this. There are SO many pits in kennels across the country this just isn't feasible to do it the way we do with greyhounds, but at least asking each potential adopter or purchaser of a pit a few questions about how they want to own the dog isn't a bad idea either.
Wow.....very informative posts Pam and DW....thanks!
I wasn't trying to put down the German Shepherds, just make the basic statement that, the bigger the dog, the more the damage (for the most part). Ok, so it didn't come across like that, lol, sorry guys!
Wasn't this thread originally about horses? How'd we get to the plight of the pitbull? lol
I completely agree. Some dogs are better at being left alone than others, but certainly they all need lots of love and attention and the more the merrier!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pamela link=board=1;threadid=9242;start=msg111823#msg1118 23 date=1085021332
Agreed. There are always exceptions to the rule. I've worked and placed tons of greyhounds into homes and have seen every imaginable personality of them. Greyhounds are part of the sighthound family with afghans, salukis and whippets. They have exceptionally good vision and are bred to visually lock onto an object and run extremely fast at it. Greyhounds for example are the fastest dog, the 6th fastest land animal in the world and commonly run as fast as 45 MPH. The reason I'm telling you all this is because we own two and are vast oposite ends of the spectrum. Tyler, our first greyhound was a championship racing dog (you can actually pull up their entire racing history online) and raced until the manditory retirement age of 5. When he raced, he ran like a bat out of hell. He raced over 110 races including being out of action for two six-month periods due to injuries. He is the pinnacle of what you think of greyhounds when you think of them, and when he runs, it's poetry in motion. Our other grey is Kiko...he's big clown. He was retired at 2 after racing only six races. He does run fast, but doesn't follow lures and isn't as graceful or well suited for racing. He just doesn't have the natural instinct. He is definitely the exception to the rule. So yes, I have seen it, and it happens all the time.Quote:
Oh because a breed is bred for many generations for a certain "task" does not insure that particular 'dog 'has any of those traits. :)