Katrine, you dastardly girl you!
1,000$ for sex? 2,000$ is the going rate!!! Why undercut?
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Katrine, you dastardly girl you!
1,000$ for sex? 2,000$ is the going rate!!! Why undercut?
:banghead:Quote:
Originally Posted by Katrine link=board=27;threadid=9293;start=msg111899#msg111 899 date=1085030535
nobody ever said that our clubs were perfect or that our towns were pure or that our asses were holy...u may stand corrected. all we were saying was that none of us like competing with hookers and that maybe she should take this to an escorting site since this board is not here to deal with prostitution....why so defensive??
At least you're up front, Katrine. I'd expect nothing less.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katrine link=board=27;threadid=9293;start=msg111899#msg111 899 date=1085030535
I have heard from several sources (dancers and customers) that the going rate for a BJ in Mitchell Brothers in SF is $300.
But I agree that most of us don't want to do extras and just prefer to make our money dancing. I just won't do extras because the thought of getting sexual with some gross guy (that being pretty much anyone other than my SO) grosses me out. Even if I was comfortable with that, having a prostitution arrest follow you around for the rest of your life just sucks.
The casino whores in Vegas fascinate me though. Seriously. When I go there to dance, it still astonishes me that I'll be at a blackjack table or getting a drink at a bar and have a guy discreetly point to or slide a $500 purple chip my way or flat out ask if I'm "working". Lately I try to bring my SO along with me to Vegas to keep this from happening, since it's getting annoying.
As for clubs...extras still go on, but they're very discreet and rarer. Vegas clubs are pretty regulated it seems.
I have a feeling Kat is bullshitting. A thousand dollars for sex? A THOUSAND DOLLARS??? I've been offered a LOT less than that. No takers, but no way in hell if i was a movie star would i pay 1k for sex.
Well, unless it was with Lexi... but that's another story...
I don't do the extras because I am afraid of the humiliation and legal repurcussion of being caught.
So Katrine, if I can guarantee you no humiliation or legal repercussions, will you, well, you know, do what I want? ;)
Running red lights is illegal too and yet it also happens all over Vegas. There are many clubs the turn the other cheek when a dancer or dancers start doing extra work here in Vegas. It's disgusting, and yet what the dancers don't understand who do it is that they ultimately aren't making as much money as the smart clean dancers make (see article on the home page).Quote:
Originally Posted by ToriBaltimore link=board=27;threadid=9293;start=msg111184#msg111 184 date=1084933615
This all aside though, there even more clubs in Vegas who do not condone the extra work than there are ones that allow it. For example, the club we do our classes in, Pleasures, has several cameras in the VIP room and they are all pointed out to each new dancer. I was told by the owner that about once a month they have to actually fire a dancer for attempting to do extra work in there. They have a zero-tolerence policy about it, and all of the house-dancers that have worked there for a while love it.
Well, not exactly 100%. They do usually have to tip hotel employees and probably local LE, plus there are "supplies" and clothes that they would not otherwise need, but they do get to keep a much larger part of what they take-in than a typical dancer I suppose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katrine link=board=27;threadid=9293;start=msg111909#msg111 909 date=1085032030
-Ww
The ladies who work the casinos can get pretty aggressive/intrusive themselves, especially if you are not with anyone and are winning big (or acting like you are). Once I went for a nightcap at the bar in one of the big Vegas casinos after leaving the poker tables about $5K ahead. I was naturally in quite a jolly mood, and the bartender asked me why I was grinning so much, so I told him. I figure that he told or signaled one of the providers hanging out in the bar, and it almost seemed like someone made a cell phone call because pretty soon about 4 more showed up. Within 10 min I felt like a crust of bread that had been thrown into a pond full of hungry ducks! It was actualllly a hilarious experience; I wish I could have gotten it on video tape somehow.Quote:
Originally Posted by NinaDaisy link=board=27;threadid=9293;start=msg111991#msg111 991 date=1085044724
-Ww
wanderer:so....dont leave us hangin, did u go with those girls??? just curious. :) (i think i was a little too into your post, sorry...very bored right now)
Two W's in Ww(anderer) please, vv1.Quote:
Originally Posted by vegasvixen1 link=board=27;threadid=9293;start=msg112120#msg112 120 date=1085077933
Your question presents me with a terrible moral dilemma: I'd love to try to entertain you with ribald stories of my adventures in the world of commercial sex (here or by private messages), and in fact I have often used poker winnings to finance my escapades (one sin feeding another, an elegant system I like to think). But the rest of this particular story is a total dud I'm sorry to report.
My wife was upstairs asleep in our room, and although I might have been able to get away with slipping off somewhere with one (or more) of them for a quickie, I would not take that much of a risk with her happiness, and quickies aren't my style anyway. So, I had to take a pass...a bunch of passes actually. But they surely did give it the "old college try" and made it as hard as they could (pun intended) for me to decline. I think it was a very slow night (middle of the week during the summer), and they were so bored that they kept after me for a while even after they realized I probably was not going to give them any business, just for the hell of it. A couple of them were pretty witty about it too. At one point I said "Money can't buy you love" (a line from a Beattles song, for you youngsters), and one of them replied "Right, but let me show you how much real serious affection it can get you!"
I should have made up something more juicy and entertaining, right? But I see little point in lying when it is as easy as it is online.
-Ww
oh well if ur married then good for u for not being scummy. yay! yay! ur wife is very lucky. :)
Sometimes i suuuuure wish i was that kinda guy. Sadly i am not, so they will all have to do without.
To be completely clear and to again show how honest I am being in this thread, let me emphasize that it was the fact that my wife was upstairs and thus very nearby that caused me to "behave", not just the fact that I am married. If she had been 1000s of miles away, as she usually is when I travel on business, then it would have been a different story. Scummy or not, that is the truth. (And, btw, I have been married for well over 30 years...and only once!)Quote:
Originally Posted by vegasvixen1 link=board=27;threadid=9293;start=msg112145#msg112 145 date=1085081987
-Ww
Yeah. Men are pigs.
Oink Oink.
(I'm just not into 'get it over with' sex. Boooooooooooring)
Hmmmm... Katrine, are from either Houston or San Francisco yourself? Just curious.
To put a little more accurate (and recent) perspective into all this..
What someone traveling to Vegas and hoping to work this angle can expect:
You can expect to likely be thrown out on your ass. Local vice does indeed pursue and enforce local ordinances, so clubs do not really condone this kind of activity. There are only two or so Vegas stripclubs where extras can exist, with the highest majority of the remainder being completely non-tolerable.
As the Vegas style upgrade is aggresive and misleading, if you do find a customer interested, you can expect being WORKED on the floor for 30-40 mins before the customer is assured you're really selling the "goods". If you try to spell it out directly for your customer, they still may not believe you are on the level.. or you'll get busted. Your customer will also have to do some footwork in the form of tipping the bouncers and VIP managers in order to "look the other way" as well if things do go well for you.
You can expect to get ripped off often as the clubs want nothing to do with this, and the management tends to side with the customer for full or partial refunds because of this. i.e. even if you negotiate and get a high figure for extras up-front, the customer only need express a grievance for an amount paid and as you're new from out of town, management will force you to refund your cash back to the customer.
You can expect to have some very unpleasant encounters with the local dancers. House girls do NOT appreciate the droves of out of towners coming in to "work" the VIP rooms and side rooms. If you thought being the out of towner was fairly cold and isolating, just wait until they realize you're doing more than dances.
I know three local women that have travelled to Vegas in the past few months and upon returning, these were their sentiments. I also know two more that plan to work this angle in the upcoming two months. It's only going to get worse for the local Vegas house dancers as SF's new DA is flexing her muscles and has already started busting SF clubs. A flurry of 647b's have been handed out in the past two weeks and will likely continue, so the women used to making these kinds of earnings are looking elsewhere.
As always, DancerWealth's information on this sort of thing is inaccurate by today's standards. If you're going to arm dancers with the tools they need to combat this sort of thing, it's best if they know the reality of the situation. No matter how many times you want to pretend extras dancers don't make squat, it hardly stacks up to how most of these women make more by the halfway point of shift than most lapdancers make all night. It doesn't take an abacus to realize the normal $100-$200 (after cut) runs are replaced with shorter runs for $300-$700 (after cut)... not to mention how strongly it devalues lengthier, normal VIP sessions. Give the women the facts- they can handle it and learn how to combat it.
Women prostitutes travelling to Vegas do not have the brothel option available to them, so it's a moot point. The paperwork involved, required testing and results waiting period pushes this out of reach unless they are planning on moving there for an extended period of time. Moreover, the costs for this are excessive plus the house cut for brothels meets or exceeds 50%, and the pricing and time per john is usually fixed. In other words, an hour of the full enchilada for woman's cut of $250, versus the stripclub arena where they can get that for 8 minutes in VIP and not have to do the full-monty. Plus they can be hired and working their first day, which is the desired result for your average 2-3 week stay.
wwanderer!!!!!!!!! and to think, i was sooooo proud of u for like 2 seconds.....(sighs sadly and hangs head) oh well....just make sure that for her emotional protection she never finds out or she will be soooooooo sad.(speaking from experience of being cheated on) very, very,very, very SAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OK, come on madcap , dont u let me down!!!
... and so are their customers, no doubt !Quote:
It's only going to get worse for the local Vegas house dancers as SF's new DA is flexing her muscles and has already started busting SF clubs. A flurry of 647b's have been handed out in the past two weeks and will likely continue, so the women used to making these kinds of earnings are looking elsewhere.
Polecat, your impressions in regard to Vegas clubs is very close to my own. The only point that I couldn't strongly agree on would be that certain clubs who are struggling financially are strongly motivated to "look the other way" - because a VIP sale motivated by the promise of "extras" earns more money for the club than no VIP sale.
I am also extremely curious as to details on the new San Francisco DA and this major change in city LE policy regarding enforcement of state prostitution laws in SF clubs. If SF clubs were to actually clean up their act a little, I would consider working there again. Also, do you know the details in regard to the usual outcome and ramifications of a 647b bust in California (violation or misdemeanor, typical sentence or fine)?
I've noticed personally that it's just the clubs that aren't located on Broadway with the problem. Any hanky panky on Broadway gets IMMEDIATE action so that the problem is solved. Anything off of Broadway has it's own set of rules. There has so far only been one club raided, and it was during a day shift. All girls were taken into custody and cited (if I read that article right). It was in the Tenderloin district.
1 - Sorry to disappoint you so. :-[ (I could spend a lot of time explaining what I do and why, but this is hardly the place for it, and there is no reason at all anyone here should be interested anyway.)Quote:
Originally Posted by vegasvixen1 link=board=27;threadid=9293;start=msg112175#msg112 175 date=1085086402
2 - Believe me, I consider that a very serious and important responsibility, and I go to great lengths to make sure that I do not fail in it.
-Ww
Actually, it's been 'business as usual' for the customers, since in all cases the busts were from undercover vice being propositioned, then citing dancers. So far, johns (not what I consider customers) have been immune. Nothing is new under the sun as far as unequal risk is concerned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonie link=board=27;threadid=9293;start=msg112184#msg112 184 date=1085087603
I think bust tension is high right now, so the clubs aren't exactly going out of their way to make this apparent. Returning dancers were more disgruntled by the lack of participation, but then again coming from a more skewed perspective of working in SF can jade that outlook!Quote:
Polecat, your impressions in regard to Vegas clubs is very close to my own. The only point that I couldn't strongly agree on would be that certain clubs who are struggling financially are strongly motivated to "look the other way" - because a VIP sale motivated by the promise of "extras" earns more money for the club than no VIP sale.
No idea yet as the citations still have wet ink. The women were not arrested, just cited.. with proceeds to follow in upcoming months. This has all been in the last 3 weeks.Quote:
I am also extremely curious as to details on the new San Francisco DA and this major change in city LE policy regarding enforcement of state prostitution laws in SF clubs. If SF clubs were to actually clean up their act a little, I would consider working there again. Also, do you know the details in regard to the usual outcome and ramifications of a 647b bust in California (violation or misdemeanor, typical sentence or fine)?
Local articles on the two busts in recent weeks:
New Century
http://www.sfexaminer.com/article/in...204n_stripclub
Market Street
http://www.examiner.com/article/inde...004n_stripclub
It should also go without saying that those I know that have travelled did so before the busts, and those planning on travelling had made plans prior also, so this wasn't their motivation. I'm sure if this continues, Vegas may see an influx of new dancers!
One week of calm interestingly enough transpired while Mitchell Brothers oddly removed all curtains from VIP rooms. I'm betting some undercover police were rather bummed the dancers had no upgrade options available. It would seem poker games have quite the unspoken benefit in the big city.
SWOP (sex-workers outreach program) deserves credit for recent activity as they have been putting intense pressure on the SF stripclubs and local law enforcement, along with Daisy Anarchy. There are also some class-action lawsuits starting up to reclaim some of the exorbitant stage fees the SF clubs operate under.
While I do agree that in many situations an extras girl will make more money in most clubs, I would not dismiss Dancerwealth's beliefs or methods quite so easily. In those instances where a customer has wealth AND some class, he will often prefer a dancer who will not perform extras. For the dancers fortunate enough to realize this, and are also fortunate enough to work in a place that actually draws this type of customer on a regular basis, Dancerwealth's methods are infinitely superior, not to mention a lot easier for women who also have some class.Quote:
Originally Posted by polecat link=board=27;threadid=9293;start=msg112167#msg112 167 date=1085085162
There are women who can make excellent money without performing extras even where the other dancers are doing so, though it means they will deal with a lot more pressure and rudeness--even in a supposedly 'upscale' club, such as the 'classiest' club in Detroit.
While I am vehemently opposed to extras, or even very high contact dancing when it comes down to it--only from having seen the kind of s**t my friends have to deal with as a result--I have also been friendly with dancers who were giving them up. There was no way I could change the situation, and they weren't evil, and I had to work with them. But the other dancers are not so complaisant, and I don't blame them one bit. I have seen a lot of catfights as a result of this.
I dismiss them completely and totally since they are misleading, non-constructive and truly do not help women by distorting truth. Luckily, most women are already savvy/aware of this situation, but pie-in-the-sky ivory tower words and such are simply destructive for "newbies" or women getting a fresh start in the industry. The truth is much better to allow them to combat this issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoser link=board=27;threadid=9293;start=msg112222#msg112 222 date=1085092842
Yes, which is a totally different thing entirely.Quote:
For the dancers fortunate enough to realize this, and are also fortunate enough to work in a place that actually draws this type of customer on a regular basis, Dancerwealth's methods are infinitely superior, not to mention a lot easier for women who also have some class.
Someone working in the desert being compared to someone working an upperscale club 5,000 miles on the other coast, and requires complete perfection and a beauty pageant style hiring model isn't a valid comparison.
Painting extras girls as the overweight, buck-toothed gals that only clear $400 a night is a travesty and leads to complete shock for newbies when they discover that rather attractive woman they've been brushing elbows with for their first two weeks, loaning makeup and admiring her pull-in sells more VIPs for a reason.
Right, those type of customers don't visit escorts either :sarcastic:. Since when did wealth and "class" negate a man being a man and wanting no-strings sex? These same gentlemen are just as likely to act the same as your blue-collar Joe. But they appear to get away with it more because of their outward behvariors. I've dealt with the finest of discriminating wealthy businessmen (hahaha!) and the construction worker fixing your sprinkler system, the differences are minute when it comes to sexual demands......Quote:
In those instances where a customer has wealth AND some class, he will often prefer a dancer who will not perform extras.
Quote:
I dismiss them completely and totally since they are misleading, non-constructive and truly do not help women by distorting truth. Luckily, most women are already savvy/aware of this situation, but pie-in-the-sky ivory tower words and such are simply destructive for "newbies" or women getting a fresh start in the industry. The truth is much better to allow them to combat this issue.
I see it on this website all the time from wannabie and newbie dancers, all the judgement. It doesn't seem to be a problem at the clubs I've worked in though. Women who blatently go beyond the acceptable boundaries of the club are appropriately chastized by other dancers. Women have our own methods of social control that we don't need to shell out our hard-grinded bucks to some motivational speech.
Katrine's Quote:
Since when did wealth and "class" negate a man being a man and wanting no-strings sex? These same gentlemen are just as likely to act the same as your blue-collar Joe. But they appear to get away with it more because of their outward behvariors. I've dealt with the finest of discriminating wealthy businessmen (hahaha!) and the construction worker fixing your sprinkler system, the differences are minute when it comes to sexual demands......
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I agree with Katrine's analysis above. The men that make theire money with their minds and those who use their hands both have a penis and both want sex with women whom they are attracted to.
If it's a girl a guy feels is "relationship material " where there is an obvious mutual attraction he will put his best foot forward and be slower in trying to get her in the sack and he will hope she doesn't provide sex for money.
When a guy just wants sexual variety with no strings attached, virtue is meaningless.
The Dancer Wealth classes are more geared to teaching us selling skills and the psychology of dealing with customers . He will not tell you on line how to deal with a guy who takes his dick out during a dance.
His selling training will apply to girls offering bj's hj's and CFS in a club just as much as they apply to selling dances at varying levels of contact depending on where you work.
It's about making sales, and selling a suit, a no contact dance, a full contact dance, or a blow job are all the sames as far as selling skills are involved. Gaining rapport wirh a customer and then closing the sale for a set amount of $.
As far as Vegas clubs go, there is a huge difference in those clubs and Houston ones.
Why is Vegas such a popular destination for girls in our business and the sex trade? And when I say Vegas I mean the strip areas, because once you leave the strip it is no different there than any any other metro area.
Vegas tourist areas attract people drawn to making above average amounts of money off of tourists since tourists have more disposable income than locals most of the time.
It's not so much the club managers who allow sex to go on, it's the workers. Vegas is about extreme palm greasing. It's the bouncer who watches the VIP rooms and he ain't turning down cash in pocket to turn his head when hjs etc go on.
Many girls get money from the customer up front to give the bouncers so they can have a more "hands on" experience. Not tipping ther bouncer when going in VIP in Vegas will cause your customer to not want any more dances from you since the bouncer will be watching like a hawk.
Vegas clubs for some strange reason are being watched now and club owners are paranoid about being fined or shut down. I have seen girls fired for shit going on and the managers are watching more. All the major clubs in Veags are on alert and have had legal issues.
In Houston, sexual extras don't neccesarily equate to more dancer dollars. Go to www.aspd.net, click forums, scroll down to Houston, and then Strip Club Reviews and see how much girls are getting for their services. Out of town guys who don't know the ropes may offer $500 for a bj but the going rates for service there are $100 or less, maybe $150 for Covered Full service. Guys know the spas offer sex for $150-$240 and guys can kiss, go down and even cum twice for that so they ain't spending more than that in the club.
So an "extras" girl there is likely only making a couple hunded a day maybe more if a guy who does not know the ropes comes in.
So it is not neccesarily true that girls offering sex break the bank. Many are making what the rest of us make a day in other towns. A girl who is "well connected "with the waitresses and bathroom guys in Houston can stay busy on the right days but guys are getting more savvy about what to pay for sex in a club and aren't jumping for that $500 bj stuff anymore.
In towns where sex isn't as available, guys may offer more but in those clubs no way in hell is anything going on. It's all about outside the club action.
In Vegas a girl who gives an aggressive dance can sell more of them, but by aggressive I mean grinding, rubbing outside the pants and allowing some touching but not more. Here and there more may go on but given the scrutiny clubs are getting now, that here and there will be fading out more and more.