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Nick Berg Video MAY Have Been Faked
Im not saying it was or it wasnt.
Im just saying it MAY have been faked,and there is suspicious circumstances surrounding the case.So dont send me hate mail...
Peep this:
EDIT TO ADD: tHAT MUCH MORE CONVINCING OR CONFUSING THINGS GO ON ABOUT 8-9 POSTS DOWN. I STRONGLY URGE YOU TO READ THEM, MAYBE EVEN FIRST.
http://www.aztlan.net/berg_abu_ghraib_video.htm
Also one doctors opinion:
We forwarded the video to Doctor Raul Castro Guevara, a surgeon and forensic expert in Mexico City for his expert opinion. He wrote back and commented, "No hay manera que el individuo en el video estaba vivo y su corazon funcionando cuando le estaban cortando la cabeza. En estos casos, el corazon impela sangre con gran presion, y se corta las arterias del cuello, hay una gran cantidad de sangre que salpica por todos lados. En mi opinion el video es un fraude."
Literal translation by:WorldLingo.com:
"There is no way that the individual in the video was alive and its
heart working when they were cutting the head to him. In these cases, the heart impels blood with great pressure, and one cuts the arteries of the neck, there is a great amount of blood that splashes by all sides. In my opinion the video is a fraud."
peace love and blessings
mj
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Re:Nick Berg Video MAY Have Been Faked
Yes I already read this somewhere. They have this conspiracy theory going on which some things DO make sense. I dont know what to think... :(
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Re:Nick Berg Video MAY Have Been Faked
Conspiracy theories don't work, period.
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Re:Nick Berg Video MAY Have Been Faked
Elvis is alive and well...
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Re:Nick Berg Video MAY Have Been Faked
BS. A doctor in Mexico City thinks it's a fraud? So what? Where are the second/third opinions? Not to say Mexican doctors aren't up to par, but saying it sounds pretty far-fetched that this Mexican doc is the only one who really believes it's fake. Anyway, so what if he was alive or dead when they cut his head off? They still killed him and they STILL CUT HIS HEAD OFF ON VIDEO FOR THE WORLD TO SEE. Oh yeah, and I watched it too. The guy's eyes were still blinking when they held his dripping head up for the camera. I don't know about you, but that tells me he was alive when they cut his head off!
I think this is just a crock of shit someone put up to make him/herself and others feel better about having seen such a grisly deed on video.
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Re:Nick Berg Video MAY Have Been Faked
Oh yeah.. It was a total fake. BS.
I've heard people say: "If he was still alive, where was the blood?"
Did any of them not notice the very large puddle underneath his body?
No one saw blood sprouting from his head, because it took the morons a VERY long time to finish it. It was all on the freakin floor.
Did anyone not notice that when they first cut him, he screamed? As they continued cutting his head off, did anyone notice that his mouth was still open? He died mid-scream.
I'm with you, B. It's completely ridiculous to try and soften it up. Nick Berg was clearly alive when they began cutting him.
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Re:Nick Berg Video MAY Have Been Faked
I have to say that normally not a big conspiracy theorist, and I think most of them are wackos. Yeah and the source is pretty bad. But some of the things do make you wonder. Especially with this young dude who had ties to one of the hijackers (one of the main guys i think) and things seem fishy. I am not doubting that the guy is dead, but that part about how a human heart reacts to pumping out/spurting out massive amounts of blood and I didn't see any. Thsi guy was dead before they cut him I think. Then it begs the question of how he died. Once again, not a big conspiracy theorist, but you start adding up a few of these bits here. was he cia? Was he working with the gov b/c of some 911 deal, sentence? Like I said, just reporting, and usually think these are crap, but this one doesn't add up to me just yet.
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Re:Nick Berg Video MAY Have Been Faked
EDIT TO ADD: I have not seen this beheading, so input/comments from those who have would be welcome, especially in regard to the last couple of items below.
By Pater Havlasa, Big Bang.com
Given the incomprehensible jungle of information, the very first question, when viewing this video of an American civilian, N. Berg's execution, should be whether it is even true?
There appear to be a few problems with it, casting doubt on its authenticity. If these questions aren"t answered, one should be wary of the entire matter and be advised not to give in to the patriotic blindness brought on by the emotional charge this video packs.
Consider these inconsistencies with the video before making up your mind:
1) CIA claims it has examined the video and concluded that the hooded figure is Zaqrawi, a high level al-Qaeda operative. However, anyone who has seen the video will attest to the fact that there is no way to identify anyone from it, including the victim. Second, according to an US military report in April "03, Zaqrawi was killed in the bombing of Falluja. CIA does not elaborate whether Zaqrawi has magically sprung back to life or whether the April report was wrong.
2) The US media claimed that Zaqrawi lost a leg in 2001. Now, it says that he did not lose his leg after all. This flip flop seems too coincidental as the purported figure in the video doesn"t appear handicapped. The US does not elaborate on which intelligence is wrong.
3) The US media says the audio says that N. Berg was executed in retaliation to the US prison abuse. The reaction of the media was far too quick. It moved straight to using it in making a comparison between prison "humiliation" and a "beastly killing" saying to the shocked public "Look, we only humiliated them in the prison and look at what the animals do to us." It was quick to point out that what the terrorists do to Americans is far worse than what the US is doing to the Iraqis.
There are several problems with this. First, there have been numerous reported deaths in the US prisons caused by severe beatings so comparing "humiliation" to a death is the wrong comparison. Second, the tortures and abuses have gone on for over a year. If al-Qaeda were in the business of avenging prison abuse, it would have already done it and probably on several occasions. Otherwise, it means that Al-Qaeda gets their information from CNN or that it just happened to be a coincidence matching Abu Ghraib prison pictures with this video. It"s very unlikely that al-Qaeda would and could engage in this synchronized US media play. The timing of the video release and the media attempts to whip up an anti-Islamic frenzy suggests a media ruse timed perfectly to deflect the mounting outrage and condemnation of the US military.
4) The voice on the video says that an offer was made to the US military to exchange N. Berg for "some of the prisoners in Abu Ghraib". The US has not commented on this.
5) The Bergs claim their son was detained by the US and are blaming their son"s death on the US military but the US says that N. Berg was never detained and instead was offered a free plane ride from Iraq. It does, however, seem that in order to offer a plane ticket, the US military must have had some dealing with N. Berg. In any case, N. Berg disappeared when in US custody.
6) The victim in the video is wearing an orange prison jumpsuit, the kind seen in pictures of Guantanamo inmates. It"s hard to believe that al-Qaeda terrorists would be supplying their victims a regulation outfit. None of the recently kidnapped hostages in Iraq (Japanese and Italian) wore any uniform outfits whatsoever.
7) [WARNING: Reader"s discretion advised] A human head contains 1.5 gallons of blood yet the freshly decapitated head shown in the video is leaking none. Neck artery would squirt a foot long geyser of blood. There is no evidence of that either. Only one answer lends itself here: the video was doctored. Either a portion was clipped out or the beheading never took place as shown, with the possibility of the victim being already dead.
8) The victim never resisted the killing. Even when on the ground, only one person sufficed to completely subdue N. Berg.
This article aims at proving or alleging nothing. The point is to provoke doubt and hopefully stave off a few readers from becoming an easy emotional target and a news puppet.
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Re:Nick Berg Video MAY Have Been Faked
FBI investigated Berg in 2002
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...an_beheaded_10
Berg had caught the FBI's attention before.
Speaking to reporters outside his home in West Chester, Pa., Berg's father, Michael, said Thursday that his son was investigated by the FBI over contact he had with a terrorism suspect while he was a student at the University of Oklahoma.
A senior law enforcement official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Berg volunteered information about the 2002 investigation when he was detained in Iraq. The official said that an e-mail address traced to Berg had been used by an unidentified individual with purported connections to terrorism.
The investigation showed that Berg had never met the suspect individual and had not given the e-mail address to that person. Investigators concluded that Berg's e-mail address had been spread among dozens of people with links to the university.
The suspect individual appears to have been acquainted with Zacarias Moussaoui, an al-Qaida adherent now in federal custody and awaiting trial on conspiracy charges stemming from the Sept. 11 attacks, the official said.
Moussaoui attended flight school in Norman, Okla., home of the university.
then we have in berg's recent emails:
https://registration.realcities.com/...%2F8651712.htm
"Back to the Ninaveh Palace (where I'm staying tonight) I went, and I see a man gesturing at the desk with one of my cards. Ever the opportunist, I put on my best Arabic and introduced myself as "Bodgne Berg" (tower guy). Of course that was Moffak and got along splendidly. We spent a few hours and I helped him establish an e-mail account. The bank account is still waiting as he claims none of the Mosul banks will do international wires - I'll probably have to open in Baghdad"
so we have berg establishing an email account for someone, the same thing FBI investigated him for 2002, but in that case it was someone that was linked to moussaoui, who is linked to 9/11. additionally, berg talked to whoever was detaining him in iraq about this investigation, that was supposed closed, concluding that dozens of being were using the email address linked to berg.
oh and about the detention:
remember that dan senor, spokesman for the CPA said we were never holding berg:
an email from the state department to berg's mom
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationwo...tion-headlines
April 1, 5:23 a.m. (To Suzanne Berg, Berg's mother)
I have been able to confirm that your son is being detained by the U.S. military. I am attempting to identify a person with the U.S. military or FBI here in Iraq who you can contact directly with your questions.
to make matters even stranger, people who are looking up the case berg's dad filed are not finding it in the computerized system - it could be part of The secret docket for drug and war on terror cases
quote:
At a hearing for Sanchez, the prosecutor suggested keeping all trace of the session secret, including the standard clerk's audio tape. An unsealed transcript indicates the same procedure was used at a previous hearing.
U.S. Magistrate Judge Ann Vitunac said, "We are going to need to do the same with this tape and not log this anywhere that it will reflect on WinDOC that this hearing was even held."
WinDOC is the court clerk's computerized docketing system numerically listing every paper filing in criminal and civil cases from arrest warrants and complaints to attorneys' changes of office address.
theres also a story in Miami Daily Business Review, Vol. 77, No. 232 May 9, 2003
COURT SECRETS: U.S. DISTRICT COURT IN SOUTH FLORIDA HIDES CIVIL, CRIMINAL CASES FROM PUBLIC
that describes this practice:
Being kept secret] by Court Clerk Clarence Maddox's office is a civil case brought against a prison warden by a young Algerian man living in Deerfield Beach, Mohamed Kamel Bellahouel, who was once mistakenly suspected of involvement with terrorists. Neither the courts nor the U.S. attorney's office, however, acknowledges that dockets are being secretly maintained.
A 10-year-old decision by the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta -- U.S. v. Valenti -- forbids the use of so-called dual dockets in which some matters are held back from the public. "The government has convinced judges in this court to use the same type of dual docketing system' prohibited by Valenti," said [Miami super-lawyer and Rush Limbaugh defender Roy] Black in a recent court filing.
The law
Under federal law, even matters that are properly sealed by a district court judge aren't supposed to be hidden completely from view. Says Local Rule 5.4: "Unless otherwise provided by law, court rule or court order, proceedings in the U.S. District Court are public and court filings are matters of public record." There's even a form for judges to close individual filings from public view, "Order Re: Sealed Filing." But there are no provisions for sealing the entire docket of a case, or sealing individual docket entries themselves.
Several defense attorneys interviewed for this article said there is no law or rule issued before or after the attacks of Sept. 11 that could justify the sealing of dockets in cases involving terrorism, immigration or anything else in the district court or in higher courts. That includes the Classified Information Procedures Act,
Invisible
There are at least two completely invisible cases on the secret docket of the Southern District of Florida. One is the criminal case in federal district court in Miami against Colombian businessman and imprisoned drug dealer Nicholas Bergonzoli. A federal grand jury in Bridgeport, Conn., indicted Bergonzoli on a conspiracy to import cocaine charge in October 1995. That court's docket shows the case was transferred in March 1999 to Miami, where it was given a case number, 99cr196, and assigned to then-Chief Judge Edward B. Davis, who has since retired. Once the case landed in Miami, though, it seemed to vanish. Court dockets accessible to the public don't include Bergonzoli's name.
And a computerized search for Docket No. 99cr196 on the PACER electronic docket system yields the reply "no matches found." But the Review has learned that Bergonzoli, now 39, was convicted.
Senor now admits Berg was held from march 24 - april 6.
http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/s...=wn_wire_story
Dan Senor, spokesman for the Coalition Provisional Authority, said this week that Nick Berg was arrested in Mosul by Iraqi police on March 24 and released on April 6 and was visited by the FBI three times during his detention.
Brig.-Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the top U.S. military spokesman in Iraq, said American military police had seen Berg during his detention to make sure he was being fed and treated properly.
i say: what the hell was the FBI doing "visiting" (read: interrogating) him 3 times! what suspicion did they have about this mild-mannered entrepeneur that made them follow up 2 more times and keep him for 13 days?
ok, so we know that he was questioned while held in iraq about moussaoui, and we know he was questioned by the FBI 3 times while being held. can we safely assume that the FBI asked him about moussaoui, the same investigation they cleared him in 2002:
Berg was questioned by FBI agents who discovered he had been interviewed before because a computer password he used in college had turned up in the possession of accused Sept. 11 conspirator Zaccarias Moussaoui.
It said the FBI had concluded there was nothing sinister in that. The FBI had no comment on the report.
thoughts, anyone? is it possible berg had something to do with 9/11? this is getting disturbing.
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Re:Nick Berg Video MAY Have Been Faked
The video quality I saw was very poor. You couldn't have seen if there was alot of blood spurting or not. I watched it SEVERAL times. There was nothing that looked fake to me. There WAS alot of blood on the floor under his head/neck. That I could see. And his blinking eyes as they held his freshly severed head up for the camera.
Anyway who says this load of crap even came from a real doctor? Don't believe everything you read from a "doctor" in Mexico. Furthermore, did this "doctor" ever cut off a live person's head, or is he just "theorizing" that the blood would spray out on "all sides"? Oh yeah and he was clearly BOUND, so he couldn't have done anything to defend his life. It was obvious he was tied up. Come on. This is crap.
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Re:Nick Berg Video MAY Have Been Faked
ATL, you do raise some interesting questions. I also have to commend you on not watching the video. I certainly wish that I never had. But I can honestly tell you that Nick Berg was in fact alive when he was beheaded. He died mid-scream, and that's evident when you watch the video. The amount of blood is a reasonable question, although again, if you watch the video, you'll see the mass amount of blood on the floor with his body. It took the murderers quite a bit of time to complete the beheading. So of course, when they had finally detached his head (ugh), and held it up for all to see, most of it had been drained and on the floor.
As for what Nick's purpose for being in Iraq was, there will be a great deal of speculation and theories. I don't think we'll ever truly know.
What I do know is that this man didn't deserve the fate he received. His murderers are cowards. The one speaking gives a name identifying himself, but has his face covered. Spineless.
The most insane theory I've heard so far though, is that Mr Berg was killed by US forces. I wish I could find the link, I probably have it bookmarked somewhere. But, they go into detail about the gold ring, the footwear, and so much more. It's completely ridiculous.
If your curiosity gets the best of you, and you feel the need to watch the very poor quality video, let me know. I have it. I have the long version (about 6 minutes). But, you can see for yourself what I'm talking about, and what B had mentioned about his blinking eyes.
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Re:Nick Berg Video MAY Have Been Faked
Quote:
I am not a conspiracy guy by nature, but a lot of this doesn't sit well with me. I receive a letter from a D.C. based think tank daily called Stratfor, and they are not ones to speak out of turn yet even they are admitting to their being some major questions on this Berg issue.
From today's briefing:
QUOTE
Stratfor Morning Intelligence Brief:
In the meantime, the beheading of Nick Berg is beginning to raise questions. In a period in which nothing can go right, even this action, which should have simply served to confirm the administration's view of the jihadists, has wound up in confusion over the facts, and with the Berg family raising questions about his contact with the FBI and so on. There are a series of strange sides to this story, all of which are floating around and available in profusion in the media. Indeed, there are aspects that have us scratching our heads. It's hard to pick one thing, but we are still puzzled by the orange suit. Al Qaeda does not normally go for the U.S. prison look. There is no doubt but that Berg is dead and was beheaded. Still, to continue the theme from yesterday, when things go wrong, they do go wrong.
from a reliable source I know who works in DC
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Re:Nick Berg Video MAY Have Been Faked
Additionally, I think that the orange jumpsuit worn by Mr Berg was yet another way of intimidating him, and sending their message to us. I don't know if we'll ever know the true reason, so we can only speculate.
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Re:Nick Berg Video MAY Have Been Faked
Ask the "experts" why his eyes were still blinking after they cut off his head.
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Re:Nick Berg Video MAY Have Been Faked
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Re:Nick Berg Video MAY Have Been Faked
Oh it had to be faked...those poor souls over there are too nice to hack off the head of an American ::) GAWD
I was wondering how long before that bullshit hit the web. Maybe 9/11 was faked too. Its amazing what you can do with computer graphics.
FBR
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Re:Nick Berg Video MAY Have Been Faked
FBR -- no kidding. The Berg video put the iraqi prisoner abuse photos in perspective, and raised support for US action in Iraq. Of course some people out there don't like that and will start comming out with bullshit.
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Re:Nick Berg Video MAY Have Been Faked
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLDiscoLawyer link=board=1;threadid=9347;start=msg111694#msg1116 94 date=1085006012
Quote:
I am not a conspiracy guy by nature, but a lot of this doesn't sit well with me. I receive a letter from a D.C. based think tank daily called Stratfor, and they are not ones to speak out of turn yet even they are admitting to their being some major questions on this Berg issue.
From today's briefing:
QUOTE
Stratfor Morning Intelligence Brief:
In the meantime, the beheading of Nick Berg is beginning to raise questions. In a period in which nothing can go right, even this action, which should have simply served to confirm the administration's view of the jihadists, has wound up in confusion over the facts, and with the Berg family raising questions about his contact with the FBI and so on. There are a series of strange sides to this story, all of which are floating around and available in profusion in the media. Indeed, there are aspects that have us scratching our heads. It's hard to pick one thing, but we are still puzzled by the orange suit. Al Qaeda does not normally go for the U.S. prison look. There is no doubt but that Berg is dead and was beheaded. Still, to continue the theme from yesterday, when things go wrong, they do go wrong.
from a reliable source I know who works in DC
Stratfor are a bunch of poo poo heads:
Quote:
Stratfor is one of these snake-oil disinfo sales firms that traffics in "intelligence briefings" for people gullible enough to pay for them. Imagine that: you can get lied to for free all over this great land, but some people actually pay to be deceived!
Stratfor's track record in Latin America is abhorrent (how many years in a row did it predict that Hugo Chavez would not survive that year as Venezuela's president?). It's "spin" is ideological: pro-corporate, which is no surprise, given that it's undisclosed clientele purchases something called "Business Intelligence Services."
In my opinion, Stratfor engages in circulating disinformation into the datasphere through its free and paid email memos in ways that seem aimed to help the agendas of that very same corporate world that contracts its services.
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Re:Nick Berg Video MAY Have Been Faked
Quote:
Originally Posted by FBR link=board=1;threadid=9347;start=msg111704#msg1117 04 date=1085007330
Oh it had to be faked...those poor souls over there are too nice to hack off the head of an American ::) GAWD
I was wondering how long before that bullshit hit the web. Maybe 9/11 was faked too. Its amazing what you can do with computer graphics.
FBR
ROFL FBR.. It's so lifelike!
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Re:Nick Berg Video MAY Have Been Faked
Quote:
Originally Posted by FBR link=board=1;threadid=9347;start=msg111704#msg1117 04 date=1085007330
Oh it had to be faked...those poor souls over there are too nice to hack off the head of an American ::) GAWD
FBR
did anyone say this?
It is entirely possible that they staged it. That some other group did for what reason who knows. Did you read any of the posts?
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Re:Nick Berg Video MAY Have Been Faked
Quote:
Originally Posted by TarnakMetal link=board=1;threadid=9347;start=msg111709#msg1117 09 date=1085007796
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLDiscoLawyer link=board=1;threadid=9347;start=msg111694#msg1116 94 date=1085006012
Quote:
I am not a conspiracy guy by nature, but a lot of this doesn't sit well with me. I receive a letter from a D.C. based think tank daily called Stratfor, and they are not ones to speak out of turn yet even they are admitting to their being some major questions on this Berg issue.
From today's briefing:
QUOTE
Stratfor Morning Intelligence Brief:
In the meantime, the beheading of Nick Berg is beginning to raise questions. In a period in which nothing can go right, even this action, which should have simply served to confirm the administration's view of the jihadists, has wound up in confusion over the facts, and with the Berg family raising questions about his contact with the FBI and so on. There are a series of strange sides to this story, all of which are floating around and available in profusion in the media. Indeed, there are aspects that have us scratching our heads. It's hard to pick one thing, but we are still puzzled by the orange suit. Al Qaeda does not normally go for the U.S. prison look. There is no doubt but that Berg is dead and was beheaded. Still, to continue the theme from yesterday, when things go wrong, they do go wrong.
from a reliable source I know who works in DC
Stratfor are a bunch of poo poo heads:
Quote:
Stratfor is one of these snake-oil disinfo sales firms that traffics in "intelligence briefings" for people gullible enough to pay for them. Imagine that: you can get lied to for free all over this great land, but some people actually pay to be deceived!
Stratfor's track record in Latin America is abhorrent (how many years in a row did it predict that Hugo Chavez would not survive that year as Venezuela's president?). It's "spin" is ideological: pro-corporate, which is no surprise, given that it's undisclosed clientele purchases something called "Business Intelligence Services."
In my opinion, Stratfor engages in circulating disinformation into the datasphere through its free and paid email memos in ways that seem aimed to help the agendas of that very same corporate world that contracts its services.
http://www.bigleftoutside.com/archiv...hp?theme=white
very interesting. Alwayas good to question the source. I pm'ed the guy who sen this and I was actually incorrect. He grew up in DC and lives in NYC doing Corp finance, but still a credible guy in my book. Thanks..
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Re:Nick Berg Video MAY Have Been Faked
Im sure the terrorists are laughing their asses off at American apologists.
FBR
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Re:Nick Berg Video MAY Have Been Faked
DO NOT READ IF SQUEAMISH!>>>>>>>>>......re: barbaric killing in Middle Eastern countries- I saw an execution by semi-automatic rifle on video from Iran. The Iraqi Army would get fired up for war campaigns by tearing live dogs apart. The Iraqi Army also left decapitated heads in refrigerators in Kuwait during the raping and pillaging of the country in 1990-91, just to scare Kuwaitis. If you have a problem believing that Islamic fundamentalists would REALLY decapitate a nice American guy on camera to terrify infidel Westerners, you must live in "La La Fairyland. " God Bless your heart.
I have visited the WTC site in NYC, was in Guam when Islamic terrorist blew up a club in nearby Bali, killing around 200 Australians, and have many friends in the military who were directly affected by the events of September 11th. There are many threads on this site about the intricate and permanent reasons that we cannot avoid dealing with anti-Western and anti-Semitic sentiments and activities.
As Americans, we have charmed lives. We never get to see personally how cheap life is in Sudan, Palestine, Latin American slums, etc.....it is a hard pill to swallow, but this is all part of your life now.
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Re:Nick Berg Video MAY Have Been Faked
I don't doubt that Berg was murdered, nor am I convinced the video was staged, but there are some very puzzling questions, especially concerning Berg's detention by the US military just before he was killed, and his ties, however innocent, with the 9/11 hijakers.
From what I know of the human anatomy, cutting a person's throat should produce a violent profusion of blood (far more than a large pool of blood under their body), which was not apparent in the video. There should be in this situation a lot more blood splashing around. A friend of mine was shot in the neck and died from blood loss. His cousin was sound asleep when he was woken by the gunshot. Even after he got up and got outside to the lawn, his cousin had thick jets of blood shooting several feet in the air for a distressingly long time.
One explanation of this would be that the victim was heavily sedated, so that the heartbeat was extremely weak. This would also explain his failure to struggle more. Also, his state of mind after presumeably horrendous treatment at the hands of his captors could have led to a submissive attitude.
There are a lot of unanswered questions about this horrific murder, but we can all agree that those responsible should be given their due.
I am inclined to be sympathetic with Berg's father's sentiments.
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Re:Nick Berg Video MAY Have Been Faked
I think the problem is we view situations through our own unique rose colored glasses. Weve somehow convinced ourselves that our scruples apply to them. Wrong! These people are not like us...they are crazy and have zero respect for human life. Cutting off the head of an infidel is no more significant than swatting a fly that is pestering you. The sooner we realize that the better.
FBR