Amen to that.
Printable View
Amen to that.
San Francisco "where 'extras' are available in virtually every club in town," according to Melonie...what a complete fucking bunch of nonsense. Have you ever WORKED in San Francisco, Melonie? Assuming your statement is true, which it isn't - rabid liberals are responsible for the degeneracy of our clubs...how exactly does HOUSTON fit in to your argument, hmmm? Houston isn't exactly a hotbed of liberalism, the last time I checked. This shouldn't come as a surprise to me, since you have always demonstrated an awfully selective memory of NYC club history...remember 42nd street before it was Disnified? Remember the Harmony Theatre?
I'm amazed that people in this business (the sex industry, remember?!), who are considered to be on the fringes of society by many, particularly of the Christian Coalition ilk, continue to be patsies for the Republican Party, its warmongering, lining the pockets of big business, and sticking its nose into the personal lives of Americans. How can you be so foolish? Are you blind? Are Tigerlilly, Tina, and Djoser the only people here with brains in their heads?
Here's an interesting little tidbit:
http://www.sfbg.com/38/39/art_film_f...it_taiara.html
Of course, we must completely discount this journalism, as it comes from San Francisco, where we are all liberal, queer, and - gasp! - men get blown in strip clubs! No, this article must be a complete fabrication - it couldn't possibly be gospel, like Fox News and CNN.
I know...us waskally webublicans are just a bunch of idiots who want to take over the universe. Spare me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adina link=board=1;threadid=10447;start=msg128718#msg128 718 date=1088282411
Yeah, because I've never heard of Liberal organizations do the same thing. PETA, Planned Parenthood, and the Global Warming crowd do it all the time.Quote:
First of all, if you are going to even suggest that the Clinton News Network is anywhere right of center, you are wrong. Seoond of all, I'm curious why when a left-wing new source is quoted that's fair, but when a middle of the road organization (not far right as many libs suggest) like Fox News reports something, it's "biased" and "unfair". That's why I love the slogan of Fox News..."Fair and Balanced" because they are...certainly moreso than 99% of the other media outlets. In Vegas, we have the Las Vegas Review Journal as our main paper which is pretty middle of the road. When I travel to other cities and see the drivel that other newspapers print my jaw hits the floor it's so left-wing. I go to Orlando a lot and their newpaper there is nothing short of written by the editorial staff of Pravda. I can only imagine what the San Francisco papers are like. The reason Fox News comes under such fire as being "far right" is because so many other news outlets are so far left, that when you get near the middle, it seems so dramatically different. At least Fox News has the guts to even say they have liberals working for them unlike the bulk of the rest of the industry. With people like Alan Colmes and Geraldo working for them all the time, to even suggest they are far right is laughable.Quote:
Of course, we must completely discount this journalism, as it comes from San Francisco, where we are all liberal, queer, and - gasp! - men get blown in strip clubs! No, this article must be a complete fabrication - it couldn't possibly be gospel, like Fox News and CNN.
Attention-- all concerned citizens who are not a Guardian of Plutocracy-- I would highly recommend that you go to the store to buy a CD ROM of a book called The Republican Noise Machine by David Brock. www.mediamatters.org It is extremely detailed research that does not make for a quick and easy read. We need power and facts ASAP.
Michael Moore's movie is GREAT but it barely scratches the surface on the disappearance of an independent media.
An independent media is an absolute necessity for a democracy. Because of the anti-intellectual Republican Party’s 30 year long attempt (and success) to get rid of independent media, we are currently living in a plutocracy.
THE AVALANCHE HAS ONLY JUST BEGUN!
You evil Republicans are going to get buried alive!
Just saw it. Now, I have been pretty disillusioned by the republicrats and the democons for years now, but there were times I was feeling ill during that movie just watching these people fuck the average american so badly...
Would not want to be a republican these days - but he also went after the democrats showing Daschle and co. supporting the war on the floor of the house. He also went after CBS, NBC, etc. but especially after FOX - which everyone pretty much knows is the polar opposite of CNN.
A lot of time slots were sold out and I was lucky to get a ticket. This thing is going to be huge!
It is also interesting that there is only one theater playing it. Often around here the other theaters share movies - but not this one. One solo theater and all of friggin Austin was going there to see it!
What do you have against Planned Parenthood?Quote:
Originally Posted by DancerWealth link=board=1;threadid=10447;start=msg128728#msg128 728 date=1088283427
You are so very clearly biased to the right, if you think the Orlando paper is leftist--now THAT is funny.Quote:
...but when a middle of the road organization (not far right as many libs suggest) like Fox News...
I go to Orlando a lot and their newpaper there is nothing short of written by the editorial staff of Pravda.
The reason Fox News comes under such fire as being "far right" is because so many other news outlets are so far left, that when you get near the middle, it seems so dramatically different...to even suggest they are far right is laughable.
Later--on second thought, it's not at all funny. Orlando is one of the cities that HAS successfully hounded a major portion of their strip clubs out of business, or very nearly so. Especially in the town of Longwood--basically a suburb of Orlando, which is the home of Club Juana, the original Rachel's, and myriad other clubs, half of which are shut down, the remainder being a shadow of their former selves. The Orlando paper was not helpful to these embattled stripclubs, and did little to stave off the victory of Orlando Christian conservatives.
Having a token goofball like Geraldo hardly makes Fox "balanced'.
Saw the movie yesterday and it made me choke up. How sad, sad, sad that our men are being sent to war and killed for absolutely NO reason (most of them recruited from poor neighborhoods as the movie points out). This has nothing to do with whether you are democrat or republican, guys!!! This has to do with rich people making decisions with no concern for the lives of our military men.
The best part is when Michael Moore hands out military recruiting phamplets to members of Congress, asking if they would sign their own son or daughter up for the milirary.
Right now, only one member of Congress has a son in Iraq.
Who cares what side you're on -- just see it and educate yourself. None of us are right 100% of the time. Knowledge is a good thing, regardless.
Why is it that some asshole like Michael Moore can make a movie and it becomes gospel? Seems to me that many of you are looking for a straw to grasp.
FBR
It's not gospel -- it's just another piece of information helping voters to make an informed decision. I am not a Michael Moore fan, but I am open-minded enough to hear him out.
I don't consider it gospel at all. And Moore can be an asshole, no doubt about it. But since he is targeting the biggest, fattest asshole (though my girlfriend seems to think Clinton holds that honor) in the country today, I will probably get a kick out of the movie, even if it isn't a documentary. It is clearly biased.
But no more so than the media that has been kissing the Bush asses for years now. The supposed 'liberal' media bias is probably the one thing I disagree with most on these political threads (as is abundantly clear by now, lol). If anything the bias is conservative, 'Christian' oriented, and pro-Bush (and most importantly for this forum--ANTI-STRIPPER).
I first saw it when both Time and Newsweek put Bush Sr. on the cover of their magazines, at a time when he was not doing so well in the polls (with his first presidential race forthcoming), due to the perception that he was "wishy-washy".
The photograph was one of him at the helm of his yacht, staring grimly and manfully into the elements. It could not have been a better PR photograph and placement for millions of dollars, but instead was free, and quite effective. This was at a time when he should have been strung up by his thumbs for his part in the Iran-Contra affair. Let's not forget he was formerly the head of the CIA, and surely had everything to do with this little hushed-up scandal, which was a hell of a lot worse than any Watergate.
Now here we had a situation where arms were being surreptitiously sold to what were then the worst terrorists in the world, with whom we were sworn never to negotiate (but it's ok to sell them guns). Then we got the drug dealers involved, including our puppet Noriega in Panama--until he started tugging on his leash and had to be sent to the doghouse. Then we gave the proceeds, without the legal approval of the American people, to the "heroic" rebels in Nicaragua, who were prone to use violence against neutrals with amazing equanimity.
All of which was OK, becuse they were killing commies, along with those nuns that got in the way.
I actually think the press has been extremely easy on Bush Jr., especially concerning his bullshit PR campaign to start the war because of WMDs. Of course Hussein is not going to "gift-wrap' the fucking things, but if he had anywhere near as many as Colin Powell asserted, complete with a dog and pony slideshow, we would have found some by now--and not just what we sold them when they were 'on our side' a few years back...
The way I see it...
The cinema is the place we go when we want something inside ourselves to be stirred. It's an escape using this interesting form of artistic expression to move us and for a limited time step outside ourselves and look at things from a different angle.
We see comedies when we want to laugh, harsh drama's when we want to cry, and Michael Moore movies when we want to be aggravated or otherwise frustrated.
This is the purpose his movies are designed to incite, regardless of one's stance. Supporters of his viewpoints are aggravated, nay sayers to his viewpoints are also aggravated. The only real thing that divides a Michael Moore film from the rest of the herd is his subject matter is rooted on real-world and non-fictional events.
The debates like seen here all assume that people going to see Michael Moore movies are going to them to somehow "learn", be educated or otherwise be pursuaded. I believe this is an incorrect assumption. People walking into the theatre already bring with them their own ideals, concepts, theories and beliefs.. the movie either pulls upon them to strengthen zeal/frustration or his concepts go against them so strongly that the same end result occurs. It's truly an interesting method he's used to capture the same feeling for both kinds of viewers.
In the end folks, they are just movies.. a form of expression. They are a paid form of entertainment that we can invest into in order to be stirred if the stirring appeals to our current mood. If they were documentaries, they wouldn't be in the movie theatre but instead on PBS or Discover channel, but instead Michael Moore movies are designed by an artist who uses an usual and unique way to create the desired response.
Not to throw a baseball through the plate glass window that is anyone' sacred belief system here, but it is possible for someone to consider that something is morally wrong, yet despite that think that it should be legally available.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerlilly link=board=1;threadid=10447;start=msg128397#msg128 397 date=1088221288
There's a clear difference between making a case for one's personal morals and insisting that they be rammed down their neighbor's throats by force of law.
I'd disagree DW, in fact I think all the news channels including FOX News are propagandistic garbage. People generally watch the one that best fits their political viewpoints and just assume that channel to be "balanced" and the channel that runs counter to their viewpoints to be "biased". I'm all for people having choices, but people choosing the media outlets that only reinforce their beliefs has precisely led to the "sheep" political culture in this country.Quote:
Originally Posted by DancerWealth link=board=1;threadid=10447;start=msg128728#msg128 728 date=1088283427
Alan Colmes is a "token liberal". He's only on Fox News so they can cover its ass against claims of bias, (well that and to be Sean Hannity's personal whipping boy). I mean look at Colmes. He just looks like some whiny lawyer for the ACLU. I'm sure Hannity putting him down every weeknight resonates well with most Fox viewers. Like I said, its pure propaganda.Quote:
At least Fox News has the guts to even say they have liberals working for them unlike the bulk of the rest of the industry. With people like Alan Colmes and Geraldo working for them all the time, to even suggest they are far right is laughable.
As for the other networks, what about Bob Novak or Tucker Carlson on CNN, or Pat Buchanan or Joe Scarborough on MSNBC?
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by doc-catfish link=board=1;threadid=10447;start=msg128812#msg128 812 date=1088294479
Polecat - you make some great points. But I did learn a LOT in that movie -- I hadn't realized the web of business ties between Bush's family and friends and the Bin Ladins. Also, it gives you some insight into what Bush is really like when he is "off camera".... I had no clue about any of this.
As far as this movie not 'changing anybody's opinion', I have never voted in my life, and I am going to do so this election.
Just got back from seeing the movie.
As LNGU says it is just the tip of the iceberg. I have had an eerie feeling about the Bush family all along. They are beyond crooked and the ringleader is old daddy Bush. Any fool can see old man Bush is as crooked as a jaybird.
The movie was cleverly done to use snippets of actual conversations so as to avoid any slander suits.
Some humor of course was added as was sadness to really prompt the people like most of us, and the non white population feel driven to get out and vote.
How many news stories will you see on Cnn, Fox, ABC, CBS, and NBC regarding interviews with troops who feel the war has no purpose, and that they feel badly taking innocent peoples lives.
Or the fact that the black race is victimized and used to carry out dirty work. Our race who has been held back by the white men of power like the Bushes for years is exploited for their gain to fight a war that was complete fabrication. Old daddy Bush and the boys behind closed doors talk about holding those niggers down all the time, don't they?
And don't let Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell, and Rod Paige fool you. They are just token blacks designed to make them seem color blind in regards to race. Colin Powell actually has some integrity and I feel is using the position he was given for some higher purpose we will find out about in the future.
At some point he may be the one to collapse the Bush dynasty.
Rod Paige as a school superintendent in Houston was the flunky used to enforce Bush's no child left behind policy as many of you saw aired on 60 minutes. At Sharpstown high school there which was an example of improved test scores, Paige padded the books. The teachers were taching the test and were threatened with loss of jobs if test scores didn't rise in a school which is all black and english as a second language asians and hispanics, many whom can't read anywhere near their grade level. Paige played the Uncle Tom black role and sold his people and students out to get promoted to Secretary of Education in Washington. The schools in Houston have serious funding problems and high drop out rates. Another Bush lie.
And yes I think his movie will move more blacks to get out and vote.
The amount of power the Bush family has in Texas especially Houston is astounding. I have known that for some time.
And the thing that has bugged me way before seeing this film bring it to light is how the Bush family and their counterparts can be involved in acts that have imprisoned others who have commited them and it's like the crime never happened when the Bushes are involved.
George W and Dick Cheney were both involved in Martha Stewart type scenarios but for more money and they magically disappeared.
And as soon as anything questionable regarding George W's past is brought up on the news, within 48 hours nothing more is said about it and the general public acts unconcerned. George W's daddy has so much clout in this country he is dangerous.
And senior Bush's close family ties to Rev Jerry Falwell.
I read an article in a conservative Tampa paper in 1998 regarding the southern baptist movement to rid this country of the evils of pornography and adult entertainment. the fact that in Tampa the adult industry is a 1.2 billion dollar business made it the #1 industry their and they were fighting it which is still a terrible battle. And that same paper said that with a change in administration they had plans of crippling Las Vegas. Isn't it funny how after the 2000 elections the strip club business in Vegas became a legal nightmare and how it is in a precarious state today?
The Bushes are in cahoots with the church leaders to undermine through legal process the entire adult industry in this country. Why was a man witht the religious convictions of John Ashcroft appointed to the Bush camp? How many contributions to the Bush campaign come from the religious sector?
Bush is working with the churches to help them increase their revenue base through his programs. What do you think the school voucher program is really about? It's about taking federal dollars and giving it to the church under the guise of helping poor childrens parents have a chance of getting a quality education.
Anyone who grew up in the hood knows the parent of a child there 9 times out of 10 is not focused on moving her child to a white private school. this is the ghetto we are talking about here. Half the parents there can barely read themselves and are focused on survival and other issues.
Bush does not want to focus on making the schools better, he is using this as a smokescrren to generate money.
What about George W's association with Ken Lay of Enron? That isn't discussed anymore either, and I'll bet you Lay doesn't do any time.
Cheney's connection as CEO of Halliburton and how they were granted rebuilding contracts in the Middle East. The war in Iraq was fabricated so that all the people in bed with the Bush family can make substantial money. No outside bids for the rebuilding were allowed. Isn't that standard procedure? Yet standard procedure is irrelevant where the Bush administration and associates are concerned.
Where do you think much of the family money came/comes from? Oil. And are any of you so gullible as to think that the Bush family is not profiting and involved in the retail prices of gasoline being high AND even involved with the Arabs in inflating the prices of barrels of oil?
And what really caused Bush to be declared winner of the state of Florida, when Gore had been announced the winner?
Isn't it ironic that his brother just happens to be governor of the state that turned the election results around?
But Clinton has a little extracurricular activity with an intern, and some small dibble dabbles with Whitewater and he is constantly haunted.
This is a SERIOUS issue. Any of you that want to laugh about Michael Moore's objectives or those of the Democratic party need to wake up and smell the coffee.
And Bush says he is a war president. Let's send his daughters over to Iraq.
It's awfully strange how when Michael Moore asked congressmen on the street if they would be interested in sending their sons and daughters to fight in Iraq that they ran the other way, isn't it?
Again that is satire illustrating a key point.
All of you who haven't seen this should go see it and for you doubting Thomases who are die hard Republicans think for a minute if in reality everything discussed in the film is true.
Because deep down, you know it is, and the issues involved with the Bush administration go waaay beyond "just politics".
The Bush adminsitration is fighting mad about this movie and isn't taking it laying down. This type of movie so cleverly timed is a work of art by the producers.
The administration MAY sink under it's own crimes but we can't wait to see if that will happen. They are planning an attack now, you can rest assured. If the general public is smart enough not to be swayed by another Bush lie, their game can be up.
Please everyone vote, and vote Bush OUT of office.
This is a matter of life and death. If you think the 80's were bad, you haven't seen nothin' yet.
Indeed... here is what I wrote out before hitting this site:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sara... link=board=1;threadid=10447;start=msg128764#msg128 764 date=1088288835
I just saw Farenheit 9/11 and man, what a great movie!
I have friends and collegues on a couple of web sites and mail lists who are
debating it from the point of view of the democrat and the republican.
But I think this movie goes beyond that. It is from the point of view of those
experiencing the consequences of decisions made by strangers while yet having
the least to say about those decisions.
For example, right at the beginning - he shows how everyone is stuck in strange
cities in airports for three days. Except for those who are connected. The
family members of Bin Laden are whooshed away - the only planes in the sky but
for F16's and themselves.
And why are these Saudi's given this extra care? Watch the movie - it will
have you dropping your jaw.
So while an american citizen is made to drink her own breast milk to get on a
plane, Saudi foreigner's with business connections to all the elite of the
country are given carte blanche pass to high tail it before any investigation,
any pause for thought - just whisked away in their own private airplanes.
A lot of connections are made - and if true - this country is in more trouble
than we really think it is. Nearly ten percent of our economy is involved with
the Kingdom of Saud. If the Saud government goes down in flames - our economy
will be in severe trouble.
It certainly shows how our leaders have interests far more compelling than you
or I's vote. How the decision of a man thousands of miles away effects a woman
who's son is killed thousands of miles away. It is hard - to watch this common
woman, with really no say in the way things are, deal with the aftermath of the
decisions of the powerful.
She stands before a wall blocking the white house - covered with a green cloth
so that no one can see in.
It shows how we are getting play'ed - play'ed by the republicans, play'ed by
the democrats. Of course, Bush go the most of it, but there were plenty of
democrats looking stupid too. When Conyers (D) was going on about how he
didn't and the rest of the congress doesn't read the bills they are passing
into law - it makes you wonder about the recklessness that occurs up there.
But I suppose our deficit shows the recklousness of our leaders even now.
Thing is going to make it into the history books. And I would be very
surprised if it does not effect the way the election goes.
And indeed, from the sold out performances that I saw today, to the audience
interaction that I saw - we will be seeing more of these types of movies.
Because, as he skewer's the media - the so called news who should keep us
informed - we don't have any other choice but a movie to see what is going on.
Perhaps, it is, history repeating it's self, where people go to the movie
theaters for those "news reels" that kept them informed of the world outside.
Hmm. does this support the movie?
A Presidential Hug
Claim: Photograph shows President Bush hugging the daughter of a 9/11 victim.
Status: True.
Example: [The Washington Dispatch, 2004]
Bush Photo with Teen Shows Conviction and Compassion
It started out as a fluke. Lynn Faulkner had been offered an extra ticket to a Bush campaign event by his neighbor Linda Prince. Mr. Faulkner decided to offer it to his 15-year old daughter Ashley who he expected would decline, as she would have to miss some school to attend. But his daughter surprised him. Ashley reminded her dad how four years ago they attended a similar event when then Texas Governor George W. Bush visited the same spot on the campaign trail.
Ashley remembered attending that event with both her father and her mother Wendy Faulkner. It was raining that day and they all stood in the rain awaiting Governor Bush "eating Triscuit crackers" enjoying the time together and hoping to get a glimpse of the would-be president. Ashley recalled holding her mothers hand as they waited. So she decided to go again this year, but this time her mother could not attend. Wendy Faulkner was murdered on 9/11/01 in the south tower of the World Trade Center. She was there on the 104th floor for a one-day meeting. Ashley decided to miss school in honor and remembrance of her mother and attend the event.
Origins: On 4 May 2004, a campaign swing through the Midwest saw President Bush visiting Lebanon, Ohio, where — as he worked the crowd outside the Golden Lamb (the state's oldest inn) — he was photographed giving a comforting hug to 15-year-old Ashley Faulkner, whose mother was killed in the September 11 terrorist attacks on the U.S. The moment was captured with a digital camera by Ashley's father, Lynn Faulkner. (Ashley's mother, Wendy Ruth Faulkner, a vice president of a risk management and insurance brokerage company, was working in the South Tower of the World Trade Center on September 11 and did not suvive the collapse of the building.)
An editorial about the story behind the photograph can be found at the Washington Dispatch web site, which also includes a page of reader-submitted commentary about the story.
Additional information: Bush Pauses to Comfort Teen (Cincinnati Enquirer
Actually, yes - I used to make the rounds to MSC, until the 'extras' expectations started affecting features incomes as well as the house girls.Quote:
San Francisco "where 'extras' are available in virtually every club in town," according to Melonie...what a complete fucking bunch of nonsense. Have you ever WORKED in San Francisco, Melonie? Assuming your statement is true, which it isn't - rabid liberals are responsible for the degeneracy of our clubs...how exactly does HOUSTON fit in to your argument, hmmm? Houston isn't exactly a hotbed of liberalism, the last time I checked. This shouldn't come as a surprise to me, since you have always demonstrated an awfully selective memory of NYC club history...remember 42nd street before it was Disnified? Remember the Harmony Theatre?
Adina, I realize that not every dancer in SF does extras, and that not every club allows extras. However, a number of clubs have openly promoted the availability of 'extras' and most of the other clubs are not very diligent about preventing some dancers from offering 'extras' in the privacy of the back rooms thus the statement "extras are available in virtually every club in San Francisco". This is all the direct result of the former San Francisco DA's stated policy that prostitution would not be investigated and prosecuted as long as it was not occurring on the street. Granted, there is apparently a new DA who has begun to reverse policy, and the blatant 'extras' clubs have been busted as a result.
I totally agree with you that Houston is probably the ultimate example of republican hypocracy - where city officials require dancer's licensing and officially condemn 'extras', yet arrangements are reached between local cops and clubowners such that club busts virtually never occur, or are given ample advance notice to temporarily clean up their act.
There's nothing selective at all about my memory in regard to NYC clubs and 'extras'. 42'nd street resulted from liberal administrations through the 70's and 80's much the same as happened in San Francisco, and only changed to a conservative course as a result of former "conservative" (by NYC standards anyhow) mayor Juliani's anti-dance club crusade. The intended result of that crusade was the cleaning up of Times Square so that the city could cut a deal with Disney, Warner Bro's etc, and boost the tourist appeal of that part of Manhattan and NYC tax revenues, which was achieved. However, I'm not kidding myself to think that 'extras' were eradicated from NYC clubs - and lately the 'extras' factor in the area has been on the increase.
Tina you are really on top of things, It is pitiful the way Bush faked out all the blacks by appointing Condaleeza Rice and Colin Powell to those low ranking jobs.
those Saudi family members were whooshed away after the airways were reopenned NOT when only F16's were flying. If you don't believe that go to Michael Moores own website (produced in Canada btw). Did you notice how Moore likes Richard Clark? Well when testifying in front of the 9/11 commission Richard Clark stated that he gave the Saudis the authority to leave the country and Bush was not consulted. The FBI had interviewed 50 of them and was done questioning them. This was on CSPAN.
Makes a good movie but if Michael Moore was anti semitic and remade Schindlers list just think of all the innocent Nazi's who would die in his movie from mistreatment from jews.
This is probably a 'truer' statement than you realize. I would very much equate Michael Moore's movie with WW2 movietone newsreels, because in both cases the content was specifically edited to promote particular conclusions being drawn which the producers wished to convey. Important content was also deliberately left out because it was incompatible with those particular conclusions. The only major difference is that the movietone newsreels were edited to promote government sanctioned conclusions, while Moore's film was edited to promote Moore's own conclusions.Quote:
Perhaps, it is, history repeating it's self, where people go to the movie theaters for those "news reels" that kept them informed of the world outside
For the record, no non-military aircraft flew in US airspace after the 9/11 attack prior to the September 14th official reopening of US airspace by the FAA. The fact that commercial airlines had been forced to land their planes at the nearest airport on the morning of 9/11 and were totally out of position to immediately resume a commercial flight schedule, while privately owned aircraft were able to take off for their destinations as soon as the FAA reopened US airspace, has absolutely nothing to do with Moore's supposed conspiracy theory.
Quote:
As far as this movie not 'changing anybody's opinion', I have never voted in my life, and I am going to do so this election.Quote:
Thing is going to make it into the history books. And I would be very surprised if it does not effect the way the election goesQuote:
The debates like seen here all assume that people going to see Michael Moore movies are going to them to somehow "learn", be educated or otherwise be pursuaded. I believe this is an incorrect assumption. People walking into the theatre already bring with them their own ideals, concepts, theories and beliefs.. the movie either pulls upon them to strengthen zeal/frustration or his concepts go against them so strongly that the same end result occurs.
Michael Moore, the liberal fringe, and Hezbollah thank you for your vote !
All I ask is that 10 years from now, you look backwards and see if a 'turning point' occurred in America as a result of this film and the 2004 presidential election results.
You are so right !Quote:
Originally Posted by Tina link=board=1;threadid=10447;start=msg128837#msg128 837 date=1088299504
I have some personal/family stories of it though-- I come from a largely military family. My father retired as Col. after 24 years in the Army-- he fought in Germany (I had an older Dad- born in 1921- passed in 99) Korea and was in the Pentagon during Vietnam (he left the Army during this time because he didn't agree with that war)
I have 3 cousins who are serving now-and are in the process of getting out because they disagree with the direction we have gone in.
I have two uncles both high ranking officers -- one is a lawyer with the JAG office and is deeply in the know and is part of negotiations in Turkey. He can't say much ofcourse but is also planning on leaving after his work his completed. The other uncle is a OGBYN with the Navy and he has made some comments that lead me to believe he also disagrees with the direction the administration has taken our military.
Time to re-open those history books, Melonie.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonie link=board=1;threadid=10447;start=msg128855#msg128 855 date=1088303233
John Lindsay '65 to 73, was a Republican until 1971.
Abe Beame was a Democrat (73-77)
Ed Koch, 1978 to 1989 - Republican.
Guiliani was elected in 1994 - and his morality crusade didn't start until 1998. Bear in mind his aim wasn't to prevent dirty dancers from giving blowjobs - it was to shut down all strip clubs, period.
Our current mayor, Bloomberg, is a Republican - is it his influence that has caused strippers at VIP and elsewhere to start dishing out extras?
I stand corrected about the bin laden family being flown out after the air curfew had been lifted ().Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonie link=board=1;threadid=10447;start=msg128862#msg128 862 date=1088304009
We are not getting anything straight or objective these days, from either side. I think John Kerry and his crew are a bunch of liars and have plenty of interests outside that of the American people, just as the republicans seem to have. If anything, his are probably more interested in wake of "globalism" "free trade" and the WTO.
Both sides are in bed with each other with their own interests.
I think it is unfair for you to construe Hezbollah support for the movie as some kind of endorsement against Moore. After all, it is questioning of the current administration and any enemy will jump on that.
But we the American People should not let debate and dissent disappear from our lands. If we do, then we are really in for a shit storm.
We are in some very serious times.