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Re:What are the reasons to want Bush re- elected ?
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Originally Posted by Isis link=board=1;threadid=10537;start=msg129792#msg129 792 date=1088461819
ur reasons are totally about money ? Are there other reasons by chance ?
Americans vote for money. If the economy is going well, an incumbent President will probably get reelected. If not, probably not.
You can talk about abortion, education, civil rights, and such all you want. When you get to the people who think alternately enough to not vote a strict party line - i.e., the people who really decide the Presidential elections - they'll generally vote their pocketbook.
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Re:What are the reasons to want Bush re- elected ?
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Originally Posted by sgtjohnny link=board=1;threadid=10537;start=msg129851#msg129 851 date=1088468813
The U.S should not be a welfare state. Any candidate who thinks citizens are entitled to a government of free health care and free education should never be elected. True, Bush has spent much on these things but if Kerry was President and had his way you can open up your wallet because he wants to take more. If you want a better education go to a Private School. Better Health Care, pay for it yourself. If you cannot afford to feed your children then you should not have any children and I should not have to pay for educating or for the health care or for food stamps of the children of someone else. In fact, for the best education: Home School. Public Schools are the biggest rip-offs the world has ever known. I would vote Libertarian if I felt the Libertarian Candidate had any chance. I do not want the hand of Government taking my Money, I would much rather have so I can put that money in the garter of a pretty Dancer who just gave a fantastic Lap Dance. Those are the Women who should get money.
I have to jump on this one too.
There is a difference between a welfare state and a free nation that makes sure that every child born in it has the opportunity to be the best that they can be regardless of the situation they were born into.
If we can afford to pay to defend ourselves and our children from foreign attacks, can't we also afford to defend them from sickness and ignorance. Not to mention paying to defend them from the criminals we have to lock up because we would rather spend more on prisons than education.
An educated electorate is necessary for this society to exist. Just because a child is born into poverty, they should not be forced to live at the bottom of society.
Now once they turn 18, they should be educated enough to make their own choices and if they make the wrong ones at that point that is their educated decision.
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Re:What are the reasons to want Bush re- elected ?
Sure, there are those that are ardent GWB supporters, and many of them are straight ideologues. Their reasonings are largely philosophical in nature rather than pragmatic.
So let's talk pragmatics here--because that's what politics is about, the art of the deal, the art of compromise.
GWB is in the GOP. The GOP controls both houses of Congress (effectively--the Senate being evenly split, with tie-breaking done by the VP), and barring a really unlikely upset in November that won't change--it's even slightly possible that due to 5 Southern seats being up for grabs that the GOP will significantly extend its margin in the Senate. If you're wanting to get anything accomplished at all in the next four years, and your political viewpoint is anywhere close to GWB on the spectrum, you want him to win (since's he's the only electable candidate in this regard) so legislation can be drafted, passed and signed into law. Electing a member of the opposition into the Executive Branch will only create gridlock opportunities--something we already have too much of in the Senate, thanks to Daschle.
Kerry is not a bad man. But Kerry is an elitist in the same way that people accuse (perhaps rightly so) GWB of being an elitist. Anyone in the New England area who is remotely familiar with his history knows this. It's part of the job description, generally speaking.
For all those talking about how GWB ostensibly is sticking the tax bill to the middle and lower classes, you need to put your collective asses in the know, and learn about how the tax system actually works here:
Read these short graphs that illustrate class warfare at work.
And while it makes for great entertainment, the various and sundry conspiracy theories about the Bush dynasty are absolutely laughable. Either GWB and his family and cronies are incompetent and incapable of leadership or they're brilliant megalomaniac puppetmasters. Which one is it?
As a disaffected but very realistic libertarian, I won't vote for GWB because I particularly like him or his performance in his first term. Most Republicans are disturbed by the drunken sailor spending, the total abdication of border protection and the absurd expansion of entitlement programs.
I will vote for GWB because there's more on the GOP platform that meets with my approval (capitalist-friendly legislation/regulation, strict constructionist Constitutional jurists, realist foreign policy pursuits, et al) than on the DNC platform (socialist economic policies, activist and interpretive jurists, foreign policy based on liberalism. This is how most folks vote--left or right, because most folks who take the time to get educated and informed raise the election above personalities and address policies.
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Re:What are the reasons to want Bush re- elected ?
Just a note that both Reagan and Clinton seemed to get some things done with houses of Congress that had opposite parties. Further note: The gridlock of the farcical Clinton impeachment was Republican-caused.
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Re:What are the reasons to want Bush re- elected ?
Its pretty sad when these are the two candidates we have to choose from for President. ::)
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Re:What are the reasons to want Bush re- elected ?
If Bush was going to support NASA i'd vote for him in a heartbeat. As it stands the united states has no space program, just a series of events. It's nothing like how it was.
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Re:What are the reasons to want Bush re- elected ?
Yes, Isis you heard me right. Public Education is a rip-off. A waste of money in a system that produces nothing but a crop of stupider kids every year before who think the Government owes them something. I am for Education but Public Education should be illegal. In fact, the truth is their is no where in the bill of rights a right to free public education. And even with that, Public Education is not free costing nearly $10K if not more per child in the Public Education System whereas a Private School can do it better with about $5K. Homeschool will cost less then $1K. If you are a mother you are responsible for the educating of your children not me or any teacher who works 9 months a year and gets paid about $50K a year and who nothing more then a Religion Teacher. Teaching stuff like how miserable we humans are and that Trees are good and the World will soon be covered by Global Warming. I am not responsible to feed other kids. If the parents cannot afford them they should not have them and if they do their are plenty of people who would adopt those children who could feed them. The Government programs are not free, I see it all the time with my Property Tax bill.
I would much rather have a Pretty Dancer taking money out of my wallet then have a hand of a big, fat ugly politician taking money out of my wallet any time.
As for Goddess Venus posting. I think a picture of you is much more valuable. Too bad, your political ideas are off a bit. :)
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Re:What are the reasons to want Bush re- elected ?
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Originally Posted by sgtjohnny link=board=1;threadid=10537;start=msg129943#msg129 943 date=1088483854
or any teacher who works 9 months a year and gets paid about $50K a year
That's the high average.... here's what I found doing a quick Google:
Median annual earnings of kindergarten, elementary, middle, and secondary school teachers ranged from $39,810 to $44,340 in 2002; the lowest 10 percent earned $24,960 to $29,850;
average teacher salary continued to lag behind the average annual wages of other white-collar occupations. For instance, an attorney earned an average of $77,150; an engineer brought home $72,427; a computer systems analyst earned $66,849; a buyer/contract specialist earned $57,035; while an accountant earned $52,323.
Lets not forget that school budgets force most teachers to buy lots and lots of class supplies out of pocket here's an ex. http://www.jrn.columbia.edu/studentw...02/teacher.asp
I agree that if people can't care for kids they shouldnt have them but well they do and why should their children suffer having no options for at all education ?
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Re:What are the reasons to want Bush re- elected ?
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Good plan, no - better plan than Kerry, yes. Bush's "plan" would result in less money being picked from my pocket via income taxes such that I could afford better private health insurance and I could afford to send my son to a private college !
not quite. Bushs plan, the "every child left behind." plan, would decrease funding for education, the better to free up our tax dollars for more forign wars and other assorted boondoggles.
and St. Johhny, either you are an uneducated idiot savant, or perhaps Dick Cheney's retarded younger brother, but you have spouted some of the dumbest opinion on education that I have ever heard. It IS everybodys responsibility to make sure our children oureducated. They will eventually be running things, and "their mothers" do not have the time (their working their asses off) or the resources to educate their children completely. Private schools are not an option for most folks either, because our fathers are working themselves to an early death just so they can maybe get health insurance. I agree that the education system is bloated and could use a good cleaning. I agree that teachersare paid too little (starting salary averages $20K, try to live on that) and I agree that school administrators make way too much, but doing away with public education is the stupidest idea I have ever heard of. You conservatives whine that Democrats love to raise taxes. Well, they do. Someone has to pay for the crushing deficits that Republican presidents love to run up. And yes, Bush cut taxes,mostly for the rich, but what about the 100 BILLION and counting of our tax money that he has wasted by sending it off to Haliburton, I mean, Iraq? 'Splain me this, Lucy!
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Re:What are the reasons to want Bush re- elected ?
and just what do u think those kids who would be denied education do to get by ? CRIME is the most likely answer
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Re:What are the reasons to want Bush re- elected ?
Home schooling? Um, yeah. So how are parents more qualified to teach their children physics, algebra or creative writing than a certified teacher?
Private school? No, you really are a Republican not a Libertarian.
Your political views are racist and elitist.
Maybe I should run for office in your jurisdiction so I can be a hot politician taking the money out of your wallet.
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Re:What are the reasons to want Bush re- elected ?
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Originally Posted by NinaDaisy link=board=1;threadid=10537;start=msg129988#msg129 988 date=1088487220
Home schooling? Um, yeah. So how are parents more qualified to teach their children physics, algebra or creative writing than a certified teacher?
not to mention calculus, languages or here's a scary one chemistry :o
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Re:What are the reasons to want Bush re- elected ?
Home schooling leads to an industrious career at McDonalds.
I have seen some people insist that home-schooling was god's gift to parents, who could spell neither "Home" nor "Schooling."
Home Schooling = "Want that Supersized?"
It's one thing if it's College proffesors homeschooling their kids, Joe and Jane from podunk don't need to be teaching thier kids shit other than parent stuff. For starters, a parent is more likely to cut some kid some slack than a teacher is, sometimes a kid doesn't need slack or deserve it. A Parent is also more likely to be too busy with work or some such, a Teacher's entire job is teaching.
In short, if you want your kid to succeed, leave that shit to the pro's. Homeschooling just leads to a surplus in the food service industry.
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Re:What are the reasons to want Bush re- elected ?
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Home schooling? Um, yeah. So how are parents more qualified to teach their children physics, algebra or creative writing than a certified teacher?
Public schooling is a farce; it redefines lowest common denominator at every level. Teacher certifications mean nothing--look at the MCAS testing fiasco in the state of MA. Half of their teachers couldn't pass their own friggin' examinations. Pathetic. A huge part of the problem is that the ATF and NEA unions that run most school districts are hack organizations that have zero interest in education--only job protection interests them.
Among others, I do computer work for homeschooling parents and evaluators; these are people that send their kids off to serious colleges without the nonsense that passes for a public high school education--they're not a bunch of lazy losers that want their kids to have the easy way out of education. If that's all they wanted, they could send them to the zoos in this country that pass for public schools where expectations and achievements are minimal at best. The homeschooling curriculum is widely available via the internet, and networks of evaluators are springing up all over the country. Don't write them off; they're growing in number because of the real and perceived deficits in public education.
Private schools are not only more cost effective per student, but more productive. The DC school district spends over $10K per student; are they cranking out the Nobel Prize winners? Not exactly. How many parents are dissatisfied with their private educations, whether they be secular or religious? There's a reason when given a choice, people choose private over public, and it's not for the nuns cracking down on knuckles or because they have to adhere to a dress code.
I'm not suggesting that the public system be abolished in its entirety, but to discount private and homeschooling options as racist or elitist--or deny them to those that suffer most from anemic public education--is not only wrong, it's demonstrating your complete ignorance of the subject.
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Re:What are the reasons to want Bush re- elected ?
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Originally Posted by Casual Observer link=board=1;threadid=10537;start=msg130003#msg130 003 date=1088488331
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Home schooling? Um, yeah. So how are parents more qualified to teach their children physics, algebra or creative writing than a certified teacher?
Public schooling is a farce; it redefines lowest common denominator at every level. Teacher certifications mean nothing--look at the MCAS testing fiasco in the state of MA. Half of their teachers couldn't pass their own friggin' examinations. Pathetic. A huge part of the problem is that the ATF and NEA unions that run most school districts are hack organizations that have zero interest in education--only job protection interests them.
Among others, I do computer work for homeschooling parents and evaluators; these are people that send their kids off to serious colleges without the nonsense that passes for a public high school education--they're not a bunch of lazy losers that want their kids to have the easy way out of education. If that's all they wanted, they could send them to the zoos in this country that pass for public schools where expectations and achievements are minimal at best. The homeschooling curriculum is widely available via the internet, and networks of evaluators are springing up all over the country. Don't write them off; they're growing in number because of the real and perceived deficits in public education.
Private schools are not only more cost effective per student, but more productive. The DC school district spends over $10K per student; are they cranking out the Nobel Prize winners? Not exactly. How many parents are dissatisfied with their private educations, whether they be secular or religious? There's a reason when given a choice, people choose private over public, and it's not for the nuns cracking down on knuckles or because they have to adhere to a dress code.
I'm not suggesting that the public system be abolished in its entirety, but to discount private and homeschooling options as racist or elitist--or deny them to those that suffer most from anemic public education--is not only wrong, it's demonstrating your complete ignorance of the subject.
Most of the homeschoolers i have encountered have a problem with the science being taught in school. As if Evolution and Christianity are mutually exclusive (They are not).
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Re:What are the reasons to want Bush re- elected ?
^ That I will grant you completely.
The idiots in Kansas that are trying to remove Evolution from basic science classes in the public system are doing themselves a huge disservice and accomplishing nothing in the process.
I had a professor in undergrad who was a devout Christian biology professor, very much into the theory of Creationism as it applied to his faith. But he said something that struck me as sadly rare in the broader Christian community. He said, "We have a responsibility as creatures of God to use our minds and the tools of science to better understand God's creation. Evolution is part of that process of understanding."
Sadly, this is overlooked in some places and substituted with a cop out of Creationist theory that aims to actually solve nothing scientifically but explain away everything in the natural world in an inherently unscientific fashion.
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Re:What are the reasons to want Bush re- elected ?
Hear, hear, Casual.
I could not have said it better.
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Re:What are the reasons to want Bush re- elected ?
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Originally Posted by Madcap link=board=1;threadid=10537;start=msg129996#msg129 996 date=1088487780
Home schooling leads to an industrious career at McDonalds.
I have seen some people insist that home-schooling was god's gift to parents, who could spell neither "Home" nor "Schooling."
"The average SAT score for home schoolers in 2000 was 1100, compared with 1019 for the general population. And a large study by University of Maryland education researcher Lawrence Rudner showed that the average home schooler scored in the 75th percentile on the Iowa Test of Basic Skills; the 50th percentile marked the national average." - 2000 survey of the U.S. Department of Education.
Sounds like the "McDonalds" analogy has a few flaws in it.
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It's one thing if it's College proffesors homeschooling their kids, Joe and Jane from podunk don't need to be teaching thier kids shit other than parent stuff. For starters, a parent is more likely to cut some kid some slack than a teacher is, sometimes a kid doesn't need slack or deserve it. A Parent is also more likely to be too busy with work or some such, a Teacher's entire job is teaching.
One of my best friends is a teacher in Phoenix for emotionally challenged kids. He's a huge supporter of home schooling. Home schooling isn't just a bunch of dumb parents teaching their kids. They have to pass a series of tests in addition to having guidance by an accredited teacher in their area. They don't just do it all alone nor do they crack open a calculus book on their own without any help.
In additon, the NEA wants you to think that they have everything under control. They don't, they are one of the biggest political lobbying groups in the country. They are also one of the biggest disasters to have ever faced our educational process. They, and the democrats want you to think that by throwing more money at the issue it will fix itself. Funny enough, the more we spend, the worse the problem gets. I get so frustrated when I hear we aren't spending enough on education. What bunch of crap that is. Our educational system is so bloated with administration that all these funding increases rarely make it to the classroom. I've always found it interesting how every other industrialized country who has educational systems who kicks our butt, does so by spending pennies on the dollar by comparison to us. The same goes for private schools vs. public schools. They produce much better results for substantially less money. But like many of the Democratic policies, they base their them on good intentions rather than on end results.
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Re:What are the reasons to want Bush re- elected ?
I'm not going to say a goddamned thing bad about Bush here, that's not the subject, and I have said plenty elsewhere.
But I do applaud Melonie, Jay Zeno, Python Fan, and Casual Observer on intelligent and reasoned explanation of their political views, even if I disagree with some of them on some of their views.
My favorite quote:
"Its pretty sad when these are the two candidates we have to choose from for President." Python Fan
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Re:What are the reasons to want Bush re- elected ?
ok but Johnny's theory is shut down all public schools...... What about the kids whose parent aren't qualified to home school. What happens to them ? Yes the public school system is the greatest but isnt it better than no schooling at all ?
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Re:What are the reasons to want Bush re- elected ?
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Originally Posted by Jay Zeno link=board=1;threadid=10537;start=msg129926#msg129 926 date=1088481521
Further note: The gridlock of the farcical Clinton impeachment was Republican-caused.
Really? And here I thought that lying under oath to Congress was the cause. How silly of me. Saying that the Republicans caused this mess is the same thing as a student who flunks a class and then blames the teacher for him failing.
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Re:What are the reasons to want Bush re- elected ?
Lying about something that never should have been asked in the first place, DW??
It was wrong, but the question itself was wrong.
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Re:What are the reasons to want Bush re- elected ?
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Originally Posted by Madcap link=board=1;threadid=10537;start=msg130037#msg130 037 date=1088491094
Lying about something that never should have been asked in the first place, DW??
It was wrong, but the question itself was wrong.
I'm not so sure about that, but the whole thing was really silly. Personally, I thought that Clinton should have been impeached for numerous other issues such as selling weapons to the North Koreans and the FBI Filegate. Having sex with an intern in the Oval Office was disgusting and disgraceful. It was also something they could get to stick though.
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Re:What are the reasons to want Bush re- elected ?
and Ken Starr searched for how long to come up w/ dirt on Clinton.... like 2 years right ? And thats all he could come up w/ and nothing else ::) And nothing that had anything to do w/ his performance as Pres.... and who was Starr working for ? Thats right Republicans
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Re:What are the reasons to want Bush re- elected ?
DancerWealth, I gotta give it up to ya - you have some set of balls to shove your views down everyone's throats. Is this a technique that you teach the dancers' to use on potential customers to make more money.
I don't think you are being a good businessman. My girlfreind was interested in your services, but now us giving you our money is laughable.