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Re:More and More Dancers aren't Approaching Customers
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have to disagree with the poster who said that the girls who don't hustle devalue our/my/everyone's dances.
Point taken...but in a less busy club with just a few girsl on the floor, a girl sitting with a customer for free does devalue everyone else...because then the customers think that they should get that attention for free.
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Re:More and More Dancers aren't Approaching Customers
i kinda agree with Leanne ... it's like saying most of u prefer older caucasian men because they have the most money ...
when i started out dancing i asked everyone regardless their race for a dance..... now i never ask african americans OR the Mexican guys that don't speak English...
It has nothing to do with racism ( my ex bfs = hispanic ; black ) but 99% of the mexicans and african americans that come to my club are rude , try to get sex and when u tell them u dont do sex they keep bothering u asking why the hell not and act really disrespectful ... etc......not to offend anyone - im just speaking from MY experience so don't comment upon this if you just wanna bitch - but they do tend to be very cheap in the club
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Re:More and More Dancers aren't Approaching Customers
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Do you guys think this business is more focused on girls finding one or two large carefully profiled big spenders over working the crowd?
YES!
I disaffectionately refer to this as the "home run or nothing" technique. In otherwords, if a customer doesn't look like he's going to drop a large amount on them, the dancer simply doesn't approach him out of fear that another girl will snatch up the whale who comes in when she'd be giving average joe his 2 or 3 dances.
Dancers who follow this formula can't seem to grasp the concept that for every whale there are dozens of average joes, and while those joes individually may only be good for 2-3 dances each, collectively they have a lot of money.
Another thing to consider is that regular customers aren't always made in one night. The guy who you impress with 1-2 dances tonight may bring enough money for four on the next visit, and possibly a VIP on the visit after that.
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Originally Posted by Tina link=board=9;threadid=13146;start=msg171219#msg171 219 date=1094588447
I notice this when I visit clubs and when my fiancee' checks out clubs for me he says that dancers aren't appraching all the customers as much now as 3-4 years ago.
In visiting 9 clubs he says one girl approached him. And it wasn't like they were aggressively trying to sell anyone. They sell one guy a dance or 2 and sit down at the table staring into space and then walk by other guys sitting alone making no effort to talk to them. Why?
This is a good idea. I know the message boards on SCL and TUSCL are full of crap, but a common gripe that I see on them is customers complaining of not getting anyone to come over and see them.
If you ever get a free night, follow Tina's example here and go out to a club (but not the one you work in) with your SO or some male friends and do a little recon. When you're on the other side of the tip rail, you begin to see just how apparent this problem is.
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Re:More and More Dancers aren't Approaching Customers
As some folks on the board could attest, I don't exactly reek of death, I'm not particularly hideous or offensive aesthetically, my English skills are reasonably acceptable, and while not generally outfitted and accessorized by GQ, I dress like I have some clue about what to wear. Oh, and I always bring about $500 with me in $20s. And yet I'm rarely approached. Very rarely.
In the last five years, I've had perhaps a handful of women approach me in clubs, usually in Vegas where they not only approach but try to leave with one of my damn kidneys. Makes me wish I'd brought a tazer sometimes--especially for the Czech and Russian girls; they are friggin' relentless. :D
But it doesn't matter to me whether or not I'm approached. If I want a dance from a woman, I walk right up to her and ask (only after previewing her performance to ensure adequate ROI, naturally). Why do people feel the need to wait, unless it's an issue of an underlying insecurity around beautiful women? We all have that to some level or another, but damn it, be the man! At my age I'm used to getting kicked in the balls and rejected on occasion from women, but this doesn't happen often in a strip club.
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Re:More and More Dancers aren't Approaching Customers
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Originally Posted by Casual Observer link=board=9;threadid=13146;start=msg173428#msg173 428 date=1094873205
In the last five years, I've had perhaps a handful of women approach me in clubs, usually in Vegas where they not only approach but try to leave with one of my damn kidneys. Makes me wish I'd brought a tazer sometimes--especially for the Czech and Russian girls; they are friggin' relentless. :D
:yes: I totally agree with the observation on Russian and Czech (Eastern European) girls in Vegas.
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Re:More and More Dancers aren't Approaching Customers
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Originally Posted by Sherrill link=board=9;threadid=13146;start=msg172444#msg172 444 date=1094747799
When they've asked me for advice, I've even tried to encourage them to approach customers. I got the reply, "Oh no, I couldn't do that, they'd say no and I can't take rejection." ???
Yeah, and I make sure to add "I think you might be in the wrong business then."
They want advice? They got it. Fuck sugar-coating it.
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Re:More and More Dancers aren't Approaching Customers
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Originally Posted by NinaDaisy link=board=9;threadid=13146;start=msg173506#msg173 506 date=1094889597
Yeah, and I make sure to add "I think you might be in the wrong business then."
They want advice? They got it. Fuck sugar-coating it.
:D HaHa Nina, sometimes I'm so baffled by their attitudes that I want to do the same thing. It's frustrating that their standoffishness might be keeping customers from coming in, staying longer and spending more. On the other hand, it means that more of the money they DO spend, they spend on me. :P
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Re:More and More Dancers aren't Approaching Customers
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Originally Posted by Gerina link=board=9;threadid=13146;start=msg171979#msg171 979 date=1094688697
i guess i sort of understand the comment about mexican guys, since i avoid old asian men who don't speak good english and try to grab your tit as soon as they meet you. this is my only stereotype, i hate dancing for non-american older asians, they seem to have no respect. i am half mexican, though, and don't understand why everyone else avoids them; makes more money for me.
???
For the same reason an asian dancer would wonder why YOU wont dance for asian men, while theres money in it for her.
Its the pot calling the kettle black, gerina.
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Re:More and More Dancers aren't Approaching Customers
I don't think there is anything wrong with avoiding a certain race. I also avoid hispanics, not because I am ignorant or prejudice, but because they NEVER buy dances from me.... I'm not their type. I am tall, thin, blonde, and have small boobs!!! They also tend to be grabbier and I can't deal with that. Every girl knows what works for her. I know that 95% of the time, I can get dances from asians so they seem more approachable for me.
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Re:More and More Dancers aren't Approaching Customers
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Originally Posted by bambiblue link=board=9;threadid=13146;start=msg173697#msg173 697 date=1094935818
I don't think there is anything wrong with avoiding a certain race. I also avoid hispanics, not because I am ignorant or prejudice, but because they NEVER buy dances from me.... I'm not their type. I am tall, thin, blonde, and have small boobs!!!
How is this not their type? Most latinos I know LOVE tall blondes because it is exotic to them. I don't think that's the reason at all.
BTW, I love hispanic customers as well, but then again I speak to them in spanish. When I first began to dance I was taken advantage of a few times by some Mexican guys and could have had had a bad attitude, but I have learned. Here is the trick:
Men from conservative cultures must be spoken to assertively. You need to be clear about payment and about your limits. Never back down, many do appreciate a dominant attitude. They will look at you as an equal then. The ones who don't are simply misogynists and those come from every country and culture. This little tip takes practice to master but I dance for men from anywhere and everywhere and WILL NOT put up with their bullshit at all!
My ATF regular is Guatamalan and my current fave is Salvadorian, but ya'll would probably call them Messican too upon seeing them. They are 100% gentlemen.
Tengo alma latina! Viva la raza!
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Re:More and More Dancers aren't Approaching Customers
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Originally Posted by Casual Observer link=board=9;threadid=13146;start=msg173428#msg173 428 date=1094873205
But it doesn't matter to me whether or not I'm approached. If I want a dance from a woman, I walk right up to her and ask (only after previewing her performance to ensure adequate ROI, naturally). Why do people feel the need to wait, unless it's an issue of an underlying insecurity around beautiful women? We all have that to some level or another, but damn it, be the man! At my age I'm used to getting kicked in the balls and rejected on occasion from women, but this doesn't happen often in a strip club.
:) I love it when the customer comes to me and asks for a dance. Sometimes when the club is really busy I can 't tell who is interested in me because of the lights and crowd and by the time I get to some guys they tell me they wish I would've come by earlier, but now they've spent their money on other girls. I don't mind that except when they say "but I wanted to get a dance with you" .... well then come get me or ask the waitress to... I may not be able to see you or I might be talking to another customer for a second, but I'll gladly come your way.
As for my approach. I have a naturally "sweet" demeanor that I can't turn off so for me the best approach is to smile a lot and sit and chat for a second to warm guys up. On slower nights I'll sit with whoever is in the place and try to talk to all the customers. On a busy night I'll pay attention to who was really watching me and/or tipping me on stage and approach them. I almost always do better getting dances right after I get off stage... Otherwise many of the men say "well I haven't seen you dance".
On busy nights I'll also walk around the club once or twice and notice who watches me walk by... and then I'll go approach them. It seems to work pretty well.
When I first started I actually had some "seasoned dancers" give me advice to Just walk around to everyone and ask them for a dance, but don't ever sit and talk. That didn't work at all.
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Re:More and More Dancers aren't Approaching Customers
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Otherwise many of the men say "well I haven't seen you dance"
Turn their mind away from the stage.. and onto the LD you will do for them. That's how you avoid this question. This especially helps if you are only on stage say once every two hours (which can and does happen in some clubs)...
Whilst DancerWealth will advocate you trying to not do the stage each shift... and I do understand his POV... it also depends on the club. For instance, the club I'm about to leave the stage is a major focal point... not just that.. how do you avoid doing the stage when there are only 3 other dancers working that same shift and the flow of punters is really slow ??
The only time I dislike doing the stage is when it is quite obvious a waste of my time (like when there are 3 punters in the club and they are definately not going to be spending any money anytime soon).
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Re:More and More Dancers aren't Approaching Customers
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Originally Posted by Casual Observer link=board=9;threadid=13146;start=msg173428#msg173 428 date=1094873205
But it doesn't matter to me whether or not I'm approached. If I want a dance from a woman, I walk right up to her and ask (only after previewing her performance to ensure adequate ROI, naturally). Why do people feel the need to wait, unless it's an issue of an underlying insecurity around beautiful women? We all have that to some level or another, but damn it, be the man! At my age I'm used to getting kicked in the balls and rejected on occasion from women, but this doesn't happen often in a strip club.
Very true, although men having underlying insecurities with beautiful women is the very reason SC's exist. Having the woman play the role of the aggressor takes off the pressure for him to perform.
I just wish such guys would realize that it might be even more gratifying to the ego to make the proposition for dances themselves, and hear the object of their desire say "yes". God knows if they buy enough dances and treat the gal right, they won't have to ask for them on the next trip.
While I'm not suggesting customers are out of line to complain about this lack of approach by dancers, they also need to realize their luck in attracting attention will most likely change if they take the initative to open up their wallet, particularly when they're in a crowd of non tipping bums.
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Re:More and More Dancers aren't Approaching Customers
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God knows if they buy enough dances and treat the gal right, they won't have to ask for them on the next trip.
This is part of how my current regular and I got together. I bought a LOT of dances on our first night together, and each time I've gone to see her, she's made a beeline to come and talk to me at the start of her shift. I lurves that a lot.
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Re:More and More Dancers aren't Approaching Customers
The clubs I've been working at have some really good hustlers in them. Usually every customer in the place has been approached at least a couple of times.
About DancerWealth advising that the girls try to aviod doing stage shows, I think that is wrong. Stage is as integral part of this business as doing table dances. I make at least half my income from doing stages. I hustle for table dances and VIP, but if the customer turns me down I will end with "will you keep me company when I'm on stage next?" My stages are packed, and I make great money up there. On weekend nights I can count on my stage money hitting close to the $100 mark (per set, and I am on stage 6-8 time per shift), and this for just 8 minutes of work? Why would I aviod the stage?
Also if my stage is packed, this helps me to sell dances between stage sets. The guys that didn't come to stage see the other men flocking in, and wonder "what does this girl have?" This works in Vegas, too. I've done it there as well.
About the Hispanic men not spending, I beg to differ. I bank off Hispanic men, even if they don't speak english. I have learned a few key phrases in Spanish so that I can hustle the Hispanic guys. Most of the girls at the clubs aviod the hispanic guys, but I think they are a lot of fun. Plus I am bigger than most of them, and I think they like a strong woman ;D.
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Re:More and More Dancers aren't Approaching Customers
I see from reading various posts that several members have insecurities dealing with certain types of people.
And if you magnify this times every lap or table dance selling club wherever they may be I can see there is a major problem.
I have worked in every type of club, nude. topless, stage only, air dance, full contact nude and topless and clubs where full service is on the menu.
In some clubs guys are grabbier than others, and in some clubs it is not allowed to touch the dancer at all.
To be an effective dancer I feel one must adapt to the conditions at every type of club. If a dancer is goal oriented, she will size up the crowd and the momentum in the club on a given night and decide how she will work the floor based on the type of customers there.
If a crowd is young and in groups you will talk to them differently than if the guys are older and alone. We are salespeople more than we are entertainers.
If a dancer is money oriented, she will deal with ALL types of customers.
I worked in several Iowa clubs where guys as a whole are grabby. They grab your tits and ass, etc. I expect being a dancer that I will be touched. If I can't deal with that, I shouldn't be dancing. When the guys are too rough, I just gracefully move their hands away, or just tell them "not so hard" and smile. If they still get carried away, I just keep gracefully moving their hands or say"Can't do that."
What have I lost? If we are not connecting well enough for more dances, I collect money from one dance and move on to the next table. I don't freak out.
Here are basic rules of selling. IF YOU CAN'T TAKE REJECTION, YOU'RE IN THE WRONG BUSINESS, and
YOU CAN'T LOOK AT SOMEONE AND TELL IF THEY WILL SPEND MONEY.
No one here can say that no Asians, Blacks, or Hispanics buy dances.
Bambi blue, you can't say that every hispanic guy is not attracted to you. And the fact that you say they are grabby means that some of them chose you for dances. You are going to be grabbed and fondled in this business depending on where you work. How gracefully you deal with it determines how successful you will be money wise in this business. Have you tried learning some Spanish and speaking to the immigrant Hispanics in it. That can help them warm up to you a lot. Lots of hispanic men like girls like you. But if you walk by them looking aloof and unfriendly instead of smiling and friendly they will be aloof towards you.
If you see a group of hispanic or black or white guys acting obnoxious in the club then maybe that is a table to avoid. But not blanketly avoid a whole race of people.
How well a guy is dressed means nothing either. If he is in the club YOU should be approaching him and getting to know him over a song or two and going for the sale. A white guy who was kind of serious looking wearing red suspenders, a T shirt, and jeans with a big belly wasn't approached by anyone in my club the other week and wasn't tipping on stage like many other customers were. I went up and talked to him for a bit and he was happy to get dances from me. I made $120 off of him.
The other girls said," How did you get him to buy dances? He looked so grumpy and wasn't tipping on stage."
I told them that he wanted someone to come over and talk to him and no one did.
A key thing that the jivey black men do that some of you guys are intimidated by is hit on every woman they encounter. They could care less if some of the women cuss them out. They know that some of the women will go with them if they approach enough of them and that is why those guys get more action than the average guy. They aren't afraid to be aggressive and aren't afraid to be told no.
So you approach a few hustlers who are black or some hispanic guys who are really grabby. So what. there are a lot of other blacks and hispanics who are just the opposite.
If a dancer wants to do well in this business they need to be color blind, approach EVERYONE, spend a song or 2 talking to them depending on the pace of the club, and not be so frightened of a grabby customer. They must learn how to deal with him.
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Re:More and More Dancers aren't Approaching Customers
Paris I agree with you about stage tips adding up but you work in some of the same clubs, and type of clubs I do where maybe 4-10 girls work on a given night and the stage is emphasized. Guys don't have as much to look at and the stage gets more tip rail customers.
In the larger clubs with lots of dancers though I agree with Dancer Wealth. The DJ is not pushing the stage in those clubs and guys are paying attention to the dozens of girls walking the floor over the stage. Tips are not enough to cover your tip out in the big clubs usually.
Dancer Wealth, when are you going to visit some of the small clubs Paris and I have booked at and give us your feedback? ;)
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Re:More and More Dancers aren't Approaching Customers
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A key thing that the jivey black men do that some of you guys are intimidated by is hit on every woman they encounter. They could care less if some of the women cuss them out. They know that some of the women will go with them if they approach enough of them and that is why those guys get more action than the average guy. They aren't afraid to be aggressive and aren't afraid to be told no.
Exactly. You have to be rejected more to be accepted more. Truth in that.
Think about it. A decent, average guy can go around a club (not a strip club) just asking women, "Wanna fuck?"
Some will hit him, some will walk away, but some will say yes. They will.
Tina is on the money here.
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Re:More and More Dancers aren't Approaching Customers
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Originally Posted by Casual Observer link=board=9;threadid=13146;start=msg173428#msg173 428 date=1094873205
As some folks on the board could attest, I don't exactly reek of death, I'm not particularly hideous or offensive aesthetically, my English skills are reasonably acceptable, and while not generally outfitted and accessorized by GQ, I dress like I have some clue about what to wear. Oh, and I always bring about $500 with me in $20s. And yet I'm rarely approached. Very rarely.
Amazing. I believe you about your appearance, English skills and dressing acumen. That's why it is so unbelievably amazing.
The only city where I've ever been drop-tackled five seconds in the door is Vegas. Well, OK, we all expect that and there is a certain NFL quality to the competition. In every other city, though, the girls still show up at my table before the waitress can even take an order. I've never waited more than, say, 10 minutes, max in any club, even if I'm not really looking for company right away and just waiting for my eyes to adjust to the darkness. At PEC, the wait is 1 minute, max. At my home club in DC (which I always miss when I travel -- I'm absurdly sentimental about it; I even called my ATF and her friends on their cells when I was in Times Square after attending a Broadway show because I was worried that they weren't going to make enough money without me -- how pathetic is THAT?), the rules are different for "regular" reasons, so I'll discount that one.
My problem is the reverse. It's a matter of personal pride for me to run a good table for the girls and the waitstaff no matter where I am, so company tends to attract other company. When piles of drinks show up and everybody is having a good time and being tipped regularly (or if I am running a Dom party), it functions as sort of a gravitational pull into that part of the club, which depletes the supply.
The reason I chose this user name is that other customers (usually girlfriends of other customers, actually) have asked me, "are you the owner?" because "so many beautiful women are sitting at your table." OK, so that shows that she's a newbie, and doesn't recognize the dynamics of the club. But maybe ND is right -- the girls are less aggressive in approaching in some clubs because they can go whale fishing more selectively and end up very well off at the end of the night.
From my perspective, I threw some of the biggest parties in Georgetown for over a decade, and they cost $15K - $20K a pop so that makes the club incomparably less expensive by comparison, the girls are just as beautiful (I used to hire some as waitstaff for the parties) and the best outcome of all is that I don't have to clean up the damn place afterwards! It helps that the club clientele is highbrow and off-the-charts respectful.
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Re:More and More Dancers aren't Approaching Customers
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Originally Posted by ParisLove link=board=9;threadid=13146;start=msg174934#msg174 934 date=1095124878
About DancerWealth advising that the girls try to aviod doing stage shows, I think that is wrong. Stage is as integral part of this business as doing table dances.
This needs some clarification because this applies under some circumstances and not others. What I teach is that the larger the club, the less you should be on stage. The reason is because if there are 150 dancers in a club and it's packed with customers, you are doing nothing other than wasting your time on stage. It doesn't work to your advantage and generally speaking, you are practically invisible while on stage anyway. Virtually ever dancer I've ever met who earns $1500+ in a club has told me they never go on stage unless they absolutely are made to, and every dancer I've told to buy their way off stage has come back and thanked me for giving them the advice. In a small club, it's a different story completely though. Obviously, if there are only a handful of dancers in a club, going on stage can help you, but in a big club, it's a huge mistake. In our class, I actually do the math why, and explain why not to go on stage. The figures blow everyone away. It's literally thousands upon thousands of dollars a year you are blowing by performing on stage, and the more I teach this, the more people come back and tell me how true it really is. Again though, this is a case by case basis and isn't true in every club. It certainly is in the big ones though.
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Re:More and More Dancers aren't Approaching Customers
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Originally Posted by Tina link=board=9;threadid=13146;start=msg174986#msg174 986 date=1095129365
Dancer Wealth, when are you going to visit some of the small clubs Paris and I have booked at and give us your feedback? ;)
Are you back in Vegas again? Where are you booked at? I'd love to stop by and say hi!
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Re:More and More Dancers aren't Approaching Customers
yep, i havent been going on stage for almost 3 years now. ONLY if i dont have a dance and it is very packed at the stages. sometimes i just feel like it. once a month or so!
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Re:More and More Dancers aren't Approaching Customers
I go onstage if no one is biting, and if I think I am likely to make the $20 that I would have to payoff the DJ with onstage in tips.
Also, management sometimes makes me go onstage because they like my dancing, doh!
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Re:More and More Dancers aren't Approaching Customers
Staying off of the stage wouldn't work at the clubs I work at. At every club I've worked at, going on stage is mandatory. I work in small clubs that usually have anywhere from 4 to 12 girls dancing a night. Many clubs in Wisconsin have tip walks where the dancer walks around the bar after her stage set and collects dollars from all the customers (about 95% of the guys will tip you.)
The largest club I've worked in had 10-15 girls dancing during the week and up to 25 girls on Friday and Saturday. At this club, they would skip you on stage if you were busy doing table dances, but as soon as you were done doing the dances, you had to go on stage.
At the smaller clubs, most of the guys actually do watch the stage. They frequently say things like "I haven't seen you on stage yet" and "Are you up on stage soon?" There is no way to get out of dancing on stage because there are so few girls dancing.
About a month ago, there were 4 dancers working on a Tuesday night (including myself.) I was getting a lot of private dances. I couldn't even get to all of the guys who asked me for private dances because I had to keep going on stage. I was annoyed, but there was nothing I could do about it. :-\
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Re:More and More Dancers aren't Approaching Customers
I'm just now reading the first page of this thread and have to post. So--though the subjects perhaps a few days old...
I don't ask for lapdances very often (still some shy issues); they usually ask me (I make good stage $ so it ends up good either way)--but anyway the majority of those guys have been hispanic. A sweet & cute, Not Smelly, lol 5ft mayan 22yr-old, spoke only 6 words of english to me at the rack last summer. Half of the time he'd put a twenty onto the stage instead of a five (there was no lapdancing/area there so I'd end up giving him a tilly dance there on stage sometimes just for him haha--if he was the only one at the rack sometimes I didn't sweat it--he was my saving grace sometimes). Look into their eyes and show them with yours that you appreciate their soul, and they will ask 'do you give lapdances' :-* :-*