-
Have You Ever Prepaid for Dances...Or?
Loaned money to a dancer? If so, what happened?
Did you get all your dances or did she skip?
If you made a loan, did she pay you back?
If we have had these threads before, sorry. I don't remember any threads on these topics.
I learned the hard way about prepaying or have a dancer owe you. ::) I was burned twice. Total damage 2.5 hours of dances owed and not collected. Probably a value of 7 small. Ouch. :P
Closest to a loan was giving my old computer to Miss P and collecting 10 dances the next week.
I decided to ask this because a bud made a loan. I don't know how much and is planning on taking the dancer to small claims. All he has is a canceled check marked loan for X. Other friends have prepaid with dances yet to be collected.
-
Re:Have You Ever Prepaid for Dances...Or?
i guess i've sorta loaned money to a dancer. basically it was me paying for something we did together and he going to pay me back. she paid back some of it(installments. lol, i didn't care how much or howoften, it was really all up to her), but not all. same has happened to me with "friends" who aren't dancers. its all the same. if i loan someone money i generally dont expect to get it back.
-
Re:Have You Ever Prepaid for Dances...Or?
Depending on the club, the customer etc. I have asked for my money upfront. If he refuses I walk away because he probably isn't worth my time. In my experience guys who refuse to pay up front, don't pay at all or try to short me.
From reading replies regarding paying up front it seems that some of you guys won't pay up front because you think you'll be ripped off. I don't quite get that because unless the dancer takes the $20 and doesn't dance at all you aren't ripped off- her dancing &
you just not caring for her dance style isn't getting ripped off, it's being disappointed.
Many managers will tell dancers to get their money upfront, that they cannot help you if you get stiffed on dances.
I've even had to sign contracts that say I am responsible for collecting my dance money upfront or I take the risk of not getting paid at all.
-
Re:Have You Ever Prepaid for Dances...Or?
I prepaid once with the ATF. She was onstage, I wanted to make sure she was coming over to me (it was a busy night). I knew better than to think she would skip out, I still trust her. (it also made everyone else think I was tipping REALLY well)
I 'loaned' money once (different lady, friend of ATF). She wanted shoes from the people selling stuff in back and she just got there. She said she would give me a deal on my dances later. Well I didnt want the dances (she did ask), and I knew I wouldnt get the money back. So I consider it a gift.
-
Re:Have You Ever Prepaid for Dances...Or?
If a dancer wants prepayment, I don't get dances.... When I first met my ATF on her second day of dancing, $280 slid out of my back pocket into the cushion crack. She found it and returned it before I even noticed it was gone.... I've loaned her money several times, and she has always paid me back.
-
Re:Have You Ever Prepaid for Dances...Or?
Yes, I've pre-paid for dances. But I was too much of a wuss to collect. It became kind of a joke with the ex-ATF when we said loan "nudge, nudge". I collected may 2 or 3 dances out of the 50 or so we talked about in this way. But I always felt like I doidn't want to take away from her time at work, when I know she wasn't making much money.
:propeller:
And if you count other things I did it was closer to 500-700 if I would ever have chosen to collect.
>>>Sad<<<
-
Re:Have You Ever Prepaid for Dances...Or?
I have loaned money to a fav that she paid back in dances - it was my idea not hers. We set up a deal where I would only come in on slow nights to collect ( I was in no hurry, and I like slow nights better anyway). This way there was no apprehension on either side that she would be hurting her earning potential on a busy weekend night. I did this twice and had no problem either time. I don't know that it's a good idea for the most part, you either trust someone or you don't I guess. Both times I was prepared for the possibility that I wouldn't see the money again.
-
Re:Have You Ever Prepaid for Dances...Or?
I sold a car to a dancer once on a 1 yr installment. Her credit was hosed so she didnt qualify for a loan. She made the payments faithfully.
I dont normally prepay for dances but during a couple of my customer bashes I did pay for a few dances upfront to certain girls I knew because I was so busy I was afraid I would forget. All dances were delivered as promised.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayanna link=board=1;threadid=1132;start=msg17035#msg17035 date=1073155817
In my experience guys who refuse to pay up front, don't pay at all or try to short me.
Rayanna hmmm well you obviously dont know me. If anything I overpay. Maybe its the clientele at your club.
FBR
-
Re:Have You Ever Prepaid for Dances...Or?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FBR link=board=1;threadid=1132;start=msg17059#msg17059 date=1073165366
Rayanna hmmm well you obviously dont know me. If anything I overpay. Maybe its the clientele at your club.
FBR
Well love you're right I don't know you- though out of many of the guys here SCJ you are on my top 5 list of guys I like :-*
And no, I don't think its the clientele at a particular club as I have worked all over the US. Its just been my experience that those who have a problem with paying up front were up to no good :-\
-
Re:Have You Ever Prepaid for Dances...Or?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayanna link=board=1;threadid=1132;start=msg17035#msg17035 date=1073155817
From reading replies regarding paying up front it seems that some of you guys won't pay up front because you think you'll be ripped off. I don't quite get that because unless the dancer takes the $20 and doesn't dance at all you aren't ripped off- her dancing &
you just not caring for her dance style isn't getting ripped off, it's being disappointed.
...and I'll pay for disapointment, but only one dance worth of it.
The fact is that once the customer has handed over the money, he's bequeathed much of the power to make sure that he gets his money's worth. All the dancer has to do from that point forward is give the minimum effort neccesary. It really doesn't matter to me because even if I do have the option of paying at the end, I'm not going to continue past the first dance if I get what I felt was a sub-par performance.
The key is for a customer to take advantage of the one silver lining that a "pay up front" situation affords him. When a dancer asks for the money up front, I agree to pay for one song and I'll fish that wad of twenties out of my secret pocket or sock, or wherever I've put it, and explicitly let her see it and then peel off one for her. I do want to make very clear to the dancer that there is more from where that came from, and that she'll get more of it if she pushes my buttons right.
Thankfully, or perhaps as a result of my strategy, I've only had one dissapointing experience from a dancer asking me to pay up front.
-
Re:Have You Ever Prepaid for Dances...Or?
Rayanna, it sucks that you have to worry about getting ripped off :-\ It should always be an honest business transaction to both parties. If youve experienced problems a lot I cant blame you for being careful.
I know if you worked at my club you wouldnt make me pay upfront ::) :P LOL The flockettes know where I work and would come collect for you LOL
FBR
-
Re:Have You Ever Prepaid for Dances...Or?
Never loaned money,but have prepaid with some dancers and was very pleased with the outcome.
-
Re:Have You Ever Prepaid for Dances...Or?
Unless you know her intimately, know her address, employers number, hold collateral, I think that's ridiculous. If it's an amount you don't mind parting with , just tell her keep it.
-
Re:Have You Ever Prepaid for Dances...Or?
I've never lent money to a dancer and I don't see it ever happening, if I did, I wouldn't be expecting it back.
I've also never pre-paid for dances, I just don't see how it benefits me as a customer (although I can see why a dancer might like the idea).
-
Re:Have You Ever Prepaid for Dances...Or?
By prepaying, I'm assuming you all mean quite a bit in advance. At least that's how it sounds. As far as "prepaying" at my club, you have to at least pay the LD door guy for the first dance prior so we (dancers) can get our ticket, and if you want more dances thereafter, well, payment afterwards.
I've never asked a guy to loan me money. Thank god for an understanding, "well off" mother, that's what she's there for! Though I've had some offer me financial help, I would refuse. In my mind, they figured they were "one up" on me and maybe I owed them a bit more or so. I'm pretty damn good at taking care of myself, thank you, and well, my loyal SC goers as well! :wink:
-
Re:Have You Ever Prepaid for Dances...Or?
Rayanna, you shouldn't stereotype guys that refuse to pay upfront saying they aren't worth your time! I will not pay upfront, and it is then the dancer that loses. I have a very good reputation in the club I go to. Everyone from the Owners to the cooks know me. So if there is a new dancer that wants her money upfront, she can watch me do my thing with someone else. And if it is a slow night, I WILL gloat!
-
Re:Have You Ever Prepaid for Dances...Or?
Money, I'm not sure Rayanna is stereotyping although it may sound like it. She prefaced her remarks with "depending on the club and customer..." I suspect each situation is different. If a dancer gets a bad vibe, she may depart from her SOP.
In my case I was burned by regulars I had no reason not to trust to follow through on our agreements. I too am known well enough in my club that if a dancer asked for money up front, I would walk away saying "no thanks." I have been spoiled. Both my ATF and my current fav have danced the whole shift without a money discussion even taking place. :) They left happy. 8)
-
Re:Have You Ever Prepaid for Dances...Or?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayanna link=board=1;threadid=1132;start=msg17035#msg17035 date=1073155817
In my experience guys who refuse to pay up front, don't pay at all or try to short me.
Fish, she says it right there! She is stereotyping guys who refuse to pay up front. That sentence does not matter what club she is in. Just from reading her posts, I would not pay for a dance with someone elses money. An attitude like that will find her at the bottom of the list, if she was at my club.
-
Re:Have You Ever Prepaid for Dances...Or?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayanna link=board=1;threadid=1132;start=msg17035#msg17035 date=1073155817
Depending on the club, the customer etc. I have asked for my money upfront. If he refuses I walk away because he probably isn't worth my time. In my experience guys who refuse to pay up front, don't pay at all or try to short me.
It reads a little different if taken in context. At least to me. I'm giving her the benefit of doubt in this case. 8) I know there are assholes out there that rip off dancers but that goes both ways. There are ROBs too. For things to work there has to be a certain amount of "mutual trust" which is why I prefer to have a regular girl in the first place. If you are forever trying new dancers in strange clubs, you are always starting at ground zero. :P I'm sure you like being well known in your regular club for much the same reason. ;)
-
Re:Have You Ever Prepaid for Dances...Or?
How is expressing my personal experiences stereotyping?
And what attitude?
Is it the one where I choose to base my decisions on whether to risk not getting paid on my past experience with customers who refuse to pay for a dance before rather than after?
Or maybe the one where I don't approve of 2 cell phones to help a guy cheat on his wife better and how much the suggestion disgusted me?
Or is it the attitude that I (god forbid) defend myself against sexual assaults?
whatever ::)
Keep your cash Money , trust me I don't need it down here on North Captiva Island 8)
and if you are wondering what the city have to do with not needing your cash- well just do some research on typical property values here ;D
-
Re:Have You Ever Prepaid for Dances...Or?
I have to ammend my earlier comment about prepaying. I forgot that at my old club in Indy, you had to prepay for VIP (not individual dances though). The rate at the time was $50 per half-hour and upfront money was required. I think the rationale was customers would sometimes stay for several hours and run up a pretty large tab which they might not be able to honor. It also negated the possibililty of him saying "Huh?? We werent in here 3 hours!!" LOL Its easy to lose track of time in VIP :P
So yes I have prepaid in the past..currently its not required of me so I dont do it.
FBR
-
Re:Have You Ever Prepaid for Dances...Or?
Quote:
Originally Posted by money link=board=1;threadid=1132;start=msg17106#msg17106 date=1073193752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayanna link=board=1;threadid=1132;start=msg17035#msg17035 date=1073155817
In my experience guys who refuse to pay up front, don't pay at all or try to short me.
Fish, she says it right there! She is stereotyping guys who refuse to pay up front. That sentence does not matter what club she is in. Just from reading her posts, I would not pay for a dance with someone elses money. An attitude like that will find her at the bottom of the list, if she was at my club.
The key words in Rayanna's post that you're quoting are: In my experience. She is saying she's had experiences with guys who refuse to pay up front, who tried to short her or didn't pay at all. Since we all learn from our experiences, for her to be weary of guys who refuse to pay up front is perfectly reasonable, given her experience.
I currently work in a club where guys have to pay up front to the club at least for the first dance, before entering the lap room. After that, they are allowed to pay at the end. Except of course if the guy pays by credit card - in that case all dances have to be paid up front, with the only exceptions being for known regulars. Other than this club, I've always worked in clubs where the transaction was done between dancer and customer, and in that case I would always 'take a break' and get paid every 3-5 songs, or at least take notice if he had the cash in his wallet. I haven't been stiffed yet. :crossfingers:
-
Re:Have You Ever Prepaid for Dances...Or?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishnet link=board=1;threadid=1132;start=msg17031#msg17031 date=1073154079
I learned the hard way about prepaying or have a dancer owe you. ::) I was burned twice. Total damage 2.5 hours of dances owed and not collected. Probably a value of 7 small. Ouch. :P
prepay for 2.5 hours of dances? i assuming you know the dancer pretty well. if you're going to burn up that amount of time in one evening. sure, why not? however, if you're only going to use say, half the time for one visit and save the rest for another visit. i would never prepay for that many dances. i think, there is just too much uncertainty in the whole situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishnet link=board=1;threadid=1132;start=msg17031#msg17031 date=1073154079
I decided to ask this because a bud made a loan. I don't know how much and is planning on taking the dancer to small claims. All he has is a canceled check marked loan for X. Other friends have prepaid with dances yet to be collected.
which is why i never loan dancers money. oh, i'll give it to them. however, i make it very clear that there are strings attached.
-
Re:Have You Ever Prepaid for Dances...Or?
I've adapted my methods of receiving payment somewhat since switching clubs. Now, the only time I discuss money before the dance is
1) If he inquires as to the prices and dances available (there are three dances to choose from)
2) If he is getting a dance for a buddy. THEN, and only then, do I tell them that pre-payment is required by the club on the off chance that the buddy paying for the dance may get tossed or leave before we finish dancing. Most guys just hand over a $100 bill to the buddy and tell him to have fun, so it's not that huge of a deal.
I run my risks, to be sure, but over seven months time I've been stiffed just once, and then it was only $17 (a $90 dance total but the drunk had only $73 on him and no ATM card). Considering how much I've made in those months, $17 is a trifling sum. While the experience of others is different, I am fortunate to work in a club where I can take my chances and not risk killing the mood for the sake of a business catch-22.
-
Re:Have You Ever Prepaid for Dances...Or?
I think Rayanna is justified in her policy depending on the club she works at.
In a club where the dancers are predominantly untrustworthy, customers are more likely to tip at the end. In a club where the customers are predominantly untrustworthy, tip up-front should become the standard policy.
It's tradition for a patron to tip the dancer at the end at *most* of the clubs I go to, yet I see a dancer ripped off every time I've gone. I've sat waiting for a favorite dancer for 30 minutes just to have the guy she's with totally stiff her.
Regardless of club policy, I've *always* prepaid for the ENTIRE time up-front, even with new dancers, and communicated this to them. It establishes a number of things:
1) It identifies you to the dancer as not being a cheap-bastard that is going to try to carrot-and-horse them into anything.
2) It expresses to the dancer you dont have any sort of expectations... other than to have a good time.
3) The whole hustle is gone so the dancer can shut off "hustle mode" for the next few dances, as well as not be stressed if you are going to stiff them at the end.
4) It's more sanitary since money-handling is done once up front, followed by a shared wetwipe.
5) I consider it a good investment to shake out the ladies you want nothing to do with in future visits versus the one's more deserving of time and tips.
Yes, it leaves the CUSTOMER vulnerable for a change, but it's a wise investment. If you've plunked down what is generous for 4-5 dances and the dancer is already asking for more cash inside of 4 minutes, you get up and leave and cross them off forever. Dancers of this nature wont always show their true colors when being horse-and-carroted on a per-dance or after-dance tipping style, but the true greed only busts out when they think they smell vulnerability. I'll entertain smallish, honest additional hustles for more cash RIGHT up front for upgrade purposes (i.e. "For $20 more we can upgrade to XYZ Room, you'll get more time and I'll get a bigger cut." etc.etc.) but for the most part, it's all about putting down what you plan to spend, period.. and explaining this clearly.. and enjoying the experience. If they reward me sufficiently, I'll reward them with the same treatment on my next visit.
The most important thing to me is to isolate down the dancers I enjoy spending time with from those I'd rather not give $1 to. The initial investment is worth it to me and serves nicely. Interesting enough, I've found I can't rely on other patron's advice since almost unanimously, I've preferred the "all mercenary", "all business", "ROB bitches".. they've always given me the most amount of time, the highest amount of respect, and do so for substantially less tips than others in the club. Go figure.