Reverse Cow Girl
http://www.stripperweb.com/wiki/Stripper_glossary
FBR
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Reverse Cow Girl
http://www.stripperweb.com/wiki/Stripper_glossary
FBR
Let's look at the evidence. Single mom. Man problems. Drama with friends. Unreliable. It doesn't matter if it's SS. Could be quite innocent. But she's a drama queen. Would you date a drama queen whom you found in another venue or situation? If so, or if for some other reason you must follow through, just show up ITC when you had originally intended and renew the drama there. If not, follow the advice already given. In any case, good luck and enjoy.
Stat, it's time to think outside the box:
1. Single mom: Would you want a car that came with a kid?
2. Man problems: Would you want your windshield smashed?
3. Drama with friends: Would you want your car keyed?
4. Unreliable: Would you want a car that didn't start?
ITC gives you what you want without the spillover effects.
Yep, but look at how many guys end up being able to overlook all of that as long as they have a hot-bod. And probably even the guys figure they might be able to tame the drama queen, but they are almost always wrong. No matter how much the drama queen tells you she is unhappy and wants to meet a nice guy and get her life in order, the drama queens fundamentally love the drama and relationship turmoil in their lives. They are the Star of the show, a key figure in a never ending drama that revolves around them, an on-going emotional roller-coaster that they are hooked on like crack. Why would any sane guy find this attractive? They don't. If she was ugly no guy would bother. It's only because she is hot which has turned stat's brain into the OFF mode. I can understand wanting the holy grail, but a relationship?
<pointless "I'm growing older" self-reflection.>
I'm 29 with the experience of a 16 year old, at best. Any relationship, even a bad one or a friendship, is something from which I can learn and gain confidence with women. Maybe she has a single friend? Maybe she's bat-shit crazy...the one thing I know is that my life is getting no better, my confidence no higher, by hanging out with my "nice quiet friends," and doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. I think my life could use a little crazy in it, from time to time.
</pointless "I'm growing older" self-reflection.>
What is the experience of a 16 year old? Like in your world?
I meant with regard to women (naturally life experience in general is far greater). I've had two girlfriends (6 months and 2.5 years), and sex with one of them. A bad first date with another, and a pitiful attempt at asking out another girl. That's it. Okay now that I've spelled it out, perhaps "19" would have been better.
Dude, what's your problem? A) it's hardly belittling and if I really wanted to belittle someone, you are sitting right there. If you're not feeling belittled I'm obviously not having that bad a day. b) it's hardly like I brought up his sexual inexperience. Obviously he has no problem talking about it, and if he does he is perfectly free to ignore or hedge the question or respond in any way he likes. As for what reasons I may have for asking that question - since we're all about relevance right now, what has THAT got to do with YOU? Maybe I've had similar problems. Maybe I just want to talk about some strange guy's sex life. Maybe I feel I will have something of interest or value to say on the subject. So maybe until you can put a civil tongue in your head you can just keep your personal questions to yourself.
i think jenny is questioning the idea that one must have had lots of relationships starting at high school age, or one requires lots of relationships starting then to figure out how to have a healthy one.
but then, i rebel against the modern notion that you have to have lots of sex and date lots of people to find the right one because it doesn't really seem to work for much of anyone. so i always reject the idea that even bad dating/relationship experiences are 'learning exercises'. it is a curious and subtle way of objectifying and using other people.
edit: whee, xpost! but lestat's response pretty well is the sort of thing i just complained about as being not-right.
2.5 years at 16 would be quite a lot.
I was recently talking about this with someone else (I doubt that person will read here, but I will avoid giving any details because I know that person would be hypersensitive if I were sharing it around) who would think that they were in a much worse position than you (I should put "worse" in scare quotes. I'm not judging you). I think what I was confused about with that person as well as you is why you think "inexperience" is such a bad thing. I mean in terms of you as a person - I don't get why guys see that as such a disaster. I mean, watch the 40 Year Old Virgin. That guy got Catherine Keener.
I just read mia's post. And, for what it is worth (and I'm not humouring you here) promiscuous guys are usually bad lovers and are really having sex more to achieve some kind of guy status than because they like it. Like, they'd rather talk about it than have it. Indiscriminate sex really adds nothing to your life or your character. Like that is exactly what I was trying to get at - the idea that somehow sexual experience either makes you better at sex or somehow a better person.
Jenny...thank you for the lesson in "civlity."
criz, I think Jenny's question was legitimate and on point. I didn't understand where he was coming from either. And stat treated the question as such by responding in a open, sincere manner. I didn't see a personal attack by her or an indication that stat thought it so.
FBR
My apologies if I misinterpreted, but she sounded confrontational to me.
miabella,
I think if I knew for certain that a relationship would be a bad one going in but I went ahead anyway, then I'd agree with you. If I don't know for certain ahead of time, then my saying "well at least I learned something" is more like an attempt at optimism, or rationalizing away a broken heart - if that makes sense.
The two girlfriends I have had were kind of similar, and I ultimately wasn't happy with either one. Apparently, what I think I want might not be what I actually want. So I'm in no position right now in life to say for certain that a particular person is wrong for me, unless I see in them a lot of the traits of the past two.
crizgolfer,
I appreciate the concern (sincerely), but Jenny is right. I'm alright discussing it (what are anonymous forums for, right?) and I like hearing from people who tend to not pull any punches (or tell it like it is, or however those expressions go). In my opinion, Jenny, and a lot of the ladies who visit us over here on the blue site, are often like that. As is mr_punk and others on both sites.
I stand corrected. I will step out of this thread.
Thanks for sharing - I have a few friends who are "worse" off than me. I'm actually not very insecure about my skills as a lover. The past girlfriend was quite satisfied, and frankly, I don't see what the big deal is...spend some time on foreplay, touch don't maul, make sure she's satisfied before you are. Easy. Throw in an open mind and don't freak out over little things (oh the noises and faces and things that happen! lol) and it isn't hard to be, at the very least, "decent."
When I speak of inexperience, I mean more in meeting women, and having that kind of confidence, not sexual experience. I believe confidence (in any endeavor) comes from repeated, positive experiences. I think self-confidence is probably what matters most in meeting people, and many things in life. For me relationships are the easy part and getting the first date or two is the hard part. I've never "gotten a girl's number" or "picked up" a girl. It's in that area where I feel my inexperience has lead to the low confidence and shyness that exacerbates the problem. Even when the ATF calls for SS, I'm nervous. I pace the room, I struggle to find things to say, I end up being excessively polite. :P It's the awkward experience building that happens in high school for most people that I didn't go through (*painfully* shy then, only shy now), and where I feel I'm inexperienced.
So with regards to the ATF, every phone call, a possible lunch date, all of it helps me in that regard. I'm not saying I'm a chaste saint and I'd reject sex if she offered (I mean c'mon), but it's not the "experience" I'm talking about.
FWIW, I agree, but then I'm an old school romantic, and think people who have a bazillion relationships looking for "the one" are misguided - it's all just stuff to me, it's up to us to give it meaning and make relationships meaningful but anyway...
As for stat, I guess all I can say is I like GenWar's comment (written long ago) that life is hard enough without drama.
Ah - I have less to say about that. The first time I got rejected by a guy, all guys lost the whole "it's so hard being a guy because you have to put yourself out there" cred. I was like "Oh please, rejection isn't THAT bad. You don't die of it." Well I guess that's something - really, it's not that bad. You don't die if you try to "pick up a girl" and don't manage. You're really pretty much in the same position as you were before, when you think about it.
Although actually - funnily enough I'm perfectly confident with guys (it's that whole stripper-completely-unwarranted-ego-inflation thing) I'm completely socially retarded in any other situation. This week I had to contact an old boss to give me a reference - I paced, struggled to find things to say and was excessively formal.
I got to say man, I honestly don't know if more experience is going to lead to the sense of self assurance you seek. Damn you Jenny, I'm going to have to admit she is on to something, but essentially she is right "You're really pretty much in the same position as you were before, when you think about it."
Rejection is a normal human feeling we have that has two parts, like most emotions, in part it serves us, in part emotions influence others. They are: 1.) Protect ourselves from future hurt so that we don't hurt ourselves again, kind of like pain when you put your hand on a hot stove. 2.) A pitiful aspect that may influence the one's we seek to take pity on us and give us a break.
The paradigm shift you seek will happen when you stop taking your own sense of hurt a hell of a lot less seriously. If I can throw out a suggestion for you then man. As an exercise next time you are out feeling shy... try embracing your intellect and put aside your feelings. Because intellectually she is right. When you go for it and it doesn't work out you really are no worse off then before. Rejection is going to happen, but it's really only the emotions that hurt us... the actual rejection, no worse then losing a buck playing a hand of blackjack.
Blah. I think lestat should dispense with the personal analysis and just go back to getting off during the bed dances. I mean, he admits to social leprosy but is reasonably acceptant of his own deformities. So why not just take advantage of a stripper who is willing to ignore his social scabs and give him what he wants? Other than the titillation derived from discussion, I don't see the upside in beating it to death.
FBR
FBR,
I don't always follow others' advice, but I do always listen. I like to hear what people have to say; it often helps. Also, ITC I'm no social leper, she's not ignoring much in the way of "social scabs." The only ITC social hurdle left to me is that I'm too initimidated to approach a group of dancers sitting together to ask one of them for a dance. I always feel bad for the ones I don't pick. But anyway...yeah, I'm itching for another VIP or bed dance. The next time she calls I'll either have 'the talk' or chicken out.
stat, it was a tongue in cheek comment. I mean about the leprosy thing. Sorry if it came across as serious. But I do believe (as I have stated previously) your good mileage should be more persuasive than faux intimacy with your dancer friend. Just saying.
FBR