Re:Double Standard - Take 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobius7 link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25210#msg25210 date=1089953658
I read a lot on the pink site about 'loser men' and how important 'honesty' is in a relationship. So....
Is it a double standard for dancers to complain about men who cheat and lie to their significant others, and yet those same dancers work in an industry that basically encourages these behaviors? Seems like they want it both ways....
Good question, I think a lot of the guys have eluded to this in on way or another. I am on the wall on this one.
On the one hand it is a job, and as long as they don't play men outside of the club I can overlook it as a work requirement.
On the other hand, it is like a guy complaining about women being "slutty", and then chooses a job in the porn industry exploiting slutty women. There are hundreds of thousands of other jobs you can do so do something else. I guess I think when you exploit a situation or exploit certain aspects of people, then yes, I think it is at least exploitave if not hypocritical. I guess it is a normal human tendency. We want to have our cake and eat it too. There is a definite irony in the fact that if men didn't behave as men do most strippers would find themselves out of a job and looking for other types of work.
All that said, go read the pink site and I think you will find that the vast majority of dancers here claim to treat their SOs honestly, that they don't lie or cheat on them, and so on. What they are most often complaining about is men having lied/cheated on them in relationships... not so much lying in general. It is being lied to by someone they care about that hurts, not lying in and of itself. In that specific case most of them don't seem to have a double standard. They are honest with their SOs (as best as I can tell from the posts I have read through).
Re:Double Standard - Take 2
That's a big can of worms there, mobius.. opening a rhetorical pandoras box, so to speak.
I don't look at your premise of "yet those same dancers work in an industry that basically encourages these behaviors"... I'm really not seeing stripclubs as being some environment that encourages lieing or cheating. It's the individual at fault, NOT the stripclubs.
A man can walk into a stripclub, get a few dances, spend some money, enjoy a few drinks, with his wife's knowedge and everything is cool.
Another man can lie to his wife about having an important work function, enter the stripclub, go from girl to girl to girl seeking extras, finally finding one.. either in the club or out of the club have some form of release with her, then come home smelling of perfume.
I honestly see those that BLAME stripclubs for this behavior as having no sense of accountability. You also see it from married/cheaters that also press the blame on their SO or wives for their behavior... in all cases, the accountability is 50/50 at worst case, 0% at best, but not 100% the 'fault' of other sources as they might pretend in denial.
The stripclubs do not ENABLE or ENCOURAGE this behavior, it's the individual that does both. A stripclub simple encourages spending and monetary intake in exchange for dances, which may or may not fall into one's personal belief system as an act of 'cheating' ...
I don't personally know ANY dancer that considers a lapdance as 'cheating' in a pure sense. They may discourage this behavior from their SO's or husbands, but usually are more disgruntled if there are lies involved... or feel it is a communication or relationship problem if their husband/SO has a desire to participate in such things. This is a far cry from denouncing the real job they perform.
Another example- if someone is proficient in cellphone and pager technology, should they avoid working this industry if they have a personal loathing of drug dealers? Say it's true for a particular region that many of the customers coming in may indeed be drug dealers... but is it the fault of the cellphones or pager dealership and salesperson? I would think not because customers are customers.. one's job in this arena is to provide competitively priced services and high quality product... while being knowledgable in the topic of their work. The accountability of the buyer rests solely on their shoulders. They can use it to keep in touch with their mother, or use it to schedule drug pick-ups and sales. Much like a customer walking into a stripclub may or may not be lieing or cheating with an SO or spouse, as well as spending their children's college tuition.
Just my $0.02.
Re:Double Standard - Take 2
It is a big can of worms, no doubt. I try to look at this situation from all three sides (the customer, the stripper, and the unaware SO) and like most things what is right and what is wrong depends on whose viewpoint you use.
Still, let me cut through the fog and say I have an unproven, and probably unprovable suspicion that a large percentage of SC customers are men with SOs (wives or GFs) that don't know they are going, or at least don't know what all goes on in the clubs. That their SOs wouldn't approve of hubby/bf paying a beautiful young girl to grind on their penis (clothed or not). And that the dancers are very cognizant of the fact that many of their customers are engaging in activities that their SOs would not approve of. And that they last thing the dancers want is for their large customer base to be entirely honest with their SOs, because if they were they wouldn't have many customers left.
"Honey, I am going out tonight and spend our left over money on some sweet young thing who is going to grind on my cock." How many guys here honestly have SOs that would say "Okay honey, go have a good time, we will take that vacation we were saving for next month".
It is like Philip Morris "Hey, we just sell the cigarettes, it is not our fault if people buy it. We leave it up the consumer to make an informed decision" True, but the last thing Philip Morris really wants is for people to be knowledgable, health-concerned customers. They thrive on the fact that people aren't .
In the same way strippers thrive on the fact that many men (again an unproven belief) aren't entirely honest with their SOs about how they spend their money.
Such is life. I see like so many other things. It is another imperfect situation, but it is what it is. The customers aren't blaimless, but nor are the strippers. It is a mutual arrangement and there are plenty of unaware SOs out there that would feel decieved, yet neither the stripper nor the customer is motivated to make the SOs aware.
Re:Double Standard - Take 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25216#msg25216 date=1089992222
All that said, go read the pink site and I think you will find that the vast majority of dancers here claim to treat their SOs honestly, that they don't lie or cheat on them, and so on. What they are most often complaining about is men having lied/cheated on them in relationships... not so much lying in general. It is being lied to by someone they care about that hurts, not lying in and of itself. In that specific case most of them don't seem to have a double standard. They are honest with their SOs (as best as I can tell from the posts I have read through).
it's nice to see that the "Halle Berry Effect" is alive and well ::). in any case, that's hardly surprising. in general, most people like to think of themselves as "good" people. furthermore, in any type of LTR. i find that most people aren' t as innocent and pure as they would have you believe. there's usually plenty of blame to spread around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25219#msg25219 date=1090009342
Still, let me cut through the fog and say I have an unproven, and probably unprovable suspicion that a large percentage of SC customers are men with SOs (wives or GFs) that don't know they are going, or at least don't know what all goes on in the clubs. That their SOs wouldn't approve of hubby/bf paying a beautiful young girl to grind on their penis (clothed or not).
you think? ;D well, that can't be true. according to the conventional wisdom of the boards, strippers sell harmless fantasies and dances, right? which is strange way of putting it since fantasies are solitary. i guess, the fact that a nude woman is sitting on a customer's boner is incidental. ::)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25219#msg25219 date=1090009342
And that the dancers are very cognizant of the fact that many of their customers are engaging in activities that their SOs would not approve of. And that they last thing the dancers want is for their large customer base to be entirely honest with their SOs, because if they were they wouldn't have many customers left.
like i said before, since they work in the business , it would be probaly be difficult for them to see your point. IMHO, a few are cognizant of the fact, but most are not. most people aren't very self-aware when it comes to analyzing the motives behind their own wants and desires, especially when they conflict with his/her pre-existing notions. it's a self-defense mechanism. to do otherwise, would be akin to one's own throat. customers aren't the only ones who thrive on self created fantasy in a sc, you know. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25219#msg25219 date=1090009342
"Honey, I am going out tonight and spend our left over money on some sweet young thing who is going to grind on my cock." How many guys here honestly have SOs that would say "Okay honey, go have a good time, we will take that vacation we were saving for next month".
that's funny ;D.....shit, i don't know too many women (including strippers) who would be pleased with that situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25219#msg25219 date=1090009342
Such is life. I see like so many other things. It is another imperfect situation, but it is what it is. The customers aren't blaimless, but nor are the strippers. It is a mutual arrangement and there are plenty of unaware SOs out there that would feel decieved, yet neither the stripper nor the customer is motivated to make the SOs aware.
i couldn't agree more.
Re:Double Standard - Take 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_punk link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25286#msg25286 date=1090342735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25219#msg25219 date=1090009342
And that the dancers are very cognizant of the fact that many of their customers are engaging in activities that their SOs would not approve of. And that they last thing the dancers want is for their large customer base to be entirely honest with their SOs, because if they were they wouldn't have many customers left.
like i said before, since they work in the business , it would be probaly be difficult for them to see your point. IMHO, a few are cognizant of the fact, but most are not. most people aren't very self-aware when it comes to analyzing the motives behind their own wants and desires, especially when they conflict with his/her pre-existing notions. it's a self-defense mechanism. to do otherwise, would be akin to one's own throat. customers aren't the only ones who thrive on self created fantasy in a sc, you know. :)
True, and I actually didn't mean to suggest that all dancers are comfortable (or even completely honest with themselves) with this aspect of their job, but unless they are retarded I suspect (again unprovable) that most are aware (at least at some level) that majority of the their customers have SOs at home that would not approve. Now how many dancers will come out and say, "yea, I thrive on guys who lie to their SOs" - probably not many. But then I don't think it is really "lying" that most dancers are really objecting to as much as being lied to ... it hurts when you are the one being lied to, but not when it is someone else that is being lied to, and the liar is handing over cash to participate in the lie.
Re:Double Standard - Take 2
I think most dancers do not even think of whether they contribute to infidelity when they dance for guys. They're just making money. Let us guys deal with our life issues.
Re:Double Standard - Take 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25287#msg25287 date=1090355314
True, and I actually didn't mean to suggest that all dancers are comfortable (or even completely honest with themselves) with this aspect of their job, but unless they are retarded I suspect (again unprovable) that most are aware (at least at some level) that majority of the their customers have SOs at home that would not approve.
retarded strippers? well, now that you mention it ;D...seriously, you're giving them a lot more credit than they deserve. most (people) of them aren't aware because the question doesn't enter the consciousness at all. the information is too disturbing for the mind to consider the possibility. for example, there was a recent thread started by junkieSCJ (entitled - "She's good: the curse of an RIL). i'm sure you've read it. didn't you find it strange that despite the fact, the dancer mentioned she had a boyfriend nor did she display any sign, act, or deed of mutual attraction. he still somehow believed there was some kind of mutual interest. in short, he desired the stripper. in fact, he desired her so much that he reached the conclusion (briefly) that there was the possibility of some kind of interest (beyond a commercial one) on her part despite evidence to the contrary. his mind simply discredited the facts that was staring him in the face because he wasn't ready to deal with the abject reality (her rejection of his attraction) of the situation at that moment. like i said, it's self-preservation mechanism. many customers do it and dancers are far from being immune also. i always found it strange that dancers and customers alike use superficially palatable words that have long since lost any meaning (at least for me) in the context today's sc like "fantasy" or "striptease". that's funny, i always thought it was about money and mileage or whatever other kind flavor floats your boat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25287#msg25287 date=1090355314
Now how many dancers will come out and say, "yea, I thrive on guys who lie to their SOs" - probably not many.
you're probably right. however, perhaps it's because the question isn't allowed to enter their consciousness in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25287#msg25287 date=1090355314
But then I don't think it is really "lying" that most dancers are really objecting to as much as being lied to ... it hurts when you are the one being lied to, but not when it is someone else that is being lied to, and the liar is handing over cash to participate in the lie.
<snicker> and i suppose it doesn't hurt much when you lie to the liar, either ;D. in any case, does anyone have a very, very small violin, a can of tear gas and an onion? i'm sure i can muster up some tears between the three. ::)
Re:Double Standard - Take 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25311#msg25311 date=1090539187
I agree, would just turn into a pointless heated argument. I certainly don't care enough to bother with it. And mr.p is correct when he points out that people have a way of being completely blind (to themselves) in some areas. It is not easy to see yourself as the paid for other woman just like it is not easy for the guys to admit when they lie to their SOs about going to a strip club (or what goes on in a strip club).
Even more so, what goes on outside the club. Its a small lie to come home tipsy with a faint smell of perfume about you. Its a whole nuther level to disappear for 4 hours on a Saturday afternoon (and like a dumbass leave your golf clubs at home thus negating the best guy excuse)
FBR
Re:Double Standard - Take 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by FBR link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25312#msg25312 date=1090540210
Even more so, what goes on outside the club. Its a small lie to come home tipsy with a faint smell of perfume about you. Its a whole nuther level to disappear for 4 hours on a Saturday afternoon (and like a dumbass leave your golf clubs at home thus negating the best guy excuse)
FBR
Faint smell of perfume! :shocking:
I think of most of it as - ode de overpowering rancid bubblegum . :yuck:
Re:Double Standard - Take 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by FBR link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25312#msg25312 date=1090540210
Even more so, what goes on outside the club. Its a small lie to come home tipsy with a faint smell of perfume about you. Its a whole nuther level to disappear for 4 hours on a Saturday afternoon (and like a dumbass leave your golf clubs at home thus negating the best guy excuse)
;D..i like to call that a Depend moment. some years ago, i remember during the end of one busy day. i was a little behind schedule, but i still managed to squeeze in a 30 min appointment (it was more like a 2 minute quickie ;D) before i had to rush off for an engagement later that evening with the SO. i was in such a rush that when i tore open the condom package. i didn't notice that i dropped part of the wrapper (since my pants were down around my ankles) in my underwear as i just let it drop to the ground. i must have been distracted because i didn't notice a thing when i left her place.
i finally arrived home to take a shower and get dressed. my SO was getting busy getting ready and i was hanging my clothes in the closet. i was pulling off my underwear and as i stood up. i notice an object falling away from my body (it must have been stuck to my skin) from God knows where. i see it and as i am bending down to down pick it up. i realize it's a condom wrapper :shocking:. at that moment, it felt like i had become as incontinent as a Depends spokesmodel, who just ate a serving of bad refried beans and washed it down with a an Ex-Lax and Metamucil milkshake. i quickly hide and dispose of the evidence. you know, i was a lot less careful in those days. and to this day, it still amazes me that i never got caught despite some of the most blatant antics i used to pull.
Re:Double Standard - Take 2
Don't you guys ever feel guilty??? You just fucked an escort, then 30 min. later, you're all "Hi Honey! I'm home." You guys must have no conscience; the guilt would eat me alive.
Re:Double Standard - Take 2
Aye, there's the rub, no pun intended.
I've never fucked an escort or anyone else outside the house. But yes, I can sure feel guilty about going to a strip club on the sly.
So should I and guys like me stop going? But if that happened, it would knock down strip club attendance by, what, about two-thirds, maybe?
Re:Double Standard - Take 2
Jay,
I don't think it's cheating to go to a stripclub and get a lapdance. Is it cheating when you see the same girl every week? I wouldn't even care about that in a monogamous relationship, as long as my husband told me about it. The kissing and extras is what I consider cheating.
If we went through life and never had friends of the opposite sex, or never even talked to the opposite sex because we were in a monogamous relationship, that sure would make for a boring existence. I think a monogamous relationship entails this: that is the only person you will have sexual relations with.
Re:Double Standard - Take 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by erotictonic link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25370#msg25370 date=1090806920
...as long as my husband told me about it...
I think a monogamous relationship entails this: that is the only person you will have sexual relations with.
Erotic, you sound like you are reasonably open minded about SC activities, but even you added the stipulation above (...as long as my husband told me about it...) This is really the key assumption in the original question... the belief (a reasonable one, but unproven) that many customers go to the SCs without telling their SOs, or without telling their SOs what goes on in the clubs. And it wasn't said, but I will say it, the reason they don't tell their SOs is because they know their SOs wouldn't approve of their SC activities. Their SOs would see it is a kind of paid-for sex (or paid for sexual relationship if hubby was seeing the same dancer regularly).
And hypothetically, what if your husband was obsessing over his ATF and blowing a lot of money seeing her (inside the club)? Would that be okay or would you resent him wasting your money on another woman?
Note, I am not being judgemental here ... any answer is okay as I fully understand why a person in a relationship wouldn't be okay with their SO sneaking off with the money to go to a SC (or worse, doing so on a regular basis and getting emotionally hung up on a particular dancer).
p.s. yes I would feel terribly guilty about having sex with an escort, so I don't and never have. I like being able to look my SO in the eyes and not have to hide because I am feeling terrible guilt.
Re:Double Standard - Take 2
Don't confuse a personal relationship with what happens between a customer and a dancer in a strip club. Business is business. A successful dancer knows this, a smart customer needs to remember it at all times.
Re:Double Standard - Take 2
mr. punk,
you obviously have some blaring issues, and i suggest you see a psychiatrist. the fact that you continue to seek out the services of dancers and escorts when you obviously hate them is very strange. i like to fuck as much as the next person... but i can't imagine wanting to fuck someone i hate. as far as you being a liar, i suppose something in your life has influenced you to become one, and i can only hope that no naive non-liars fall for your utter bullshit.
yes, of course, my post above is only my opinion, as is everyone's post here - their opinion.
Darren,
yes, i am more open-minded than this, in fact, i doubt i will ever have a monogamous relationship again. i want open relationships only, with like-minded men. if you want to go to sc, and your wife can't handle it, then i suggest you find someone who can. lying is stupid. stop trying to control someone and there will be no need for lies.
now let me be off..... going to go watch the chippendales.... ;) and there's not a bone in my body that feels anything but pure lust and good feelings for those hotties! hee hee
Re:Double Standard - Take 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25219#msg25219 date=1090009342
It is a big can of worms, no doubt. I try to look at this situation from all three sides (the customer, the stripper, and the unaware SO) and like most things what is right and what is wrong depends on whose viewpoint you use.
Still, let me cut through the fog and say I have an unproven, and probably unprovable suspicion that a large percentage of SC customers are men with SOs (wives or GFs) that don't know they are going, or at least don't know what all goes on in the clubs. That their SOs wouldn't approve of hubby/bf paying a beautiful young girl to grind on their penis (clothed or not). And that the dancers are very cognizant of the fact that many of their customers are engaging in activities that their SOs would not approve of. And that they last thing the dancers want is for their large customer base to be entirely honest with their SOs, because if they were they wouldn't have many customers left.
"Honey, I am going out tonight and spend our left over money on some sweet young thing who is going to grind on my cock." How many guys here honestly have SOs that would say "Okay honey, go have a good time, we will take that vacation we were saving for next month".
It is like Philip Morris "Hey, we just sell the cigarettes, it is not our fault if people buy it. We leave it up the consumer to make an informed decision" True, but the last thing Philip Morris really wants is for people to be knowledgable, health-concerned customers. They thrive on the fact that people aren't .
In the same way strippers thrive on the fact that many men (again an unproven belief) aren't entirely honest with their SOs about how they spend their money.
Such is life. I see like so many other things. It is another imperfect situation, but it is what it is. The customers aren't blaimless, but nor are the strippers. It is a mutual arrangement and there are plenty of unaware SOs out there that would feel decieved, yet neither the stripper nor the customer is motivated to make the SOs aware.
You are absolutely right. I have no motivation to make a customer's SO aware that they go to strip clubs. I have no motivation to take responsibility for someone else's relationship. What goes on between a customer and his wife/girlfriend is THEIR business. Not mine. By the same token, what goes on between me and my SO is none of the customer's business. My only responsibility towards the customer is to be sexy, fun, and entertaining; to not over charge for dances, (i.e. not charging for 5 dances if he only got 4), and to never promise more than I intend to do during a dance. That's it.
My outside-the-club responsibility only extends to me, my SO, and our families. My SO knows that I'm a stripper because he met me at the club. (Just in case anyone is curious......we were both single when we met.) His family knows what I do because I told them. And my family knows what I do because I told them. If anyone I meet in the future wonders what I do for a living, they'll know because I'll tell them. IMHO, that is where my responsibility ends.
However, for the sake of arguement, let's PRETEND that the relationship a customer has with his SO and all the lies and/or honesty within it are my responsibility. How should I go about fulfilling it???? How should I make sure that a customer's SO knows that he was at a strip club??? How should I go about doing that? Should I try to steal his wallet during a dance so that I can look at his driver's liscence and get his address, then go over to his house on my day off and have a little chat with his wife???? Does that sound like a good idea.???
Re:Double Standard - Take 2
Re:Double Standard - Take 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kittie link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25541#msg25541 date=1091296013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25219#msg25219 date=1090009342
It is a big can of worms, no doubt. I try to look at this situation from all three sides (the customer, the stripper, and the unaware SO) and like most things what is right and what is wrong depends on whose viewpoint you use.
Still, let me cut through the fog and say I have an unproven, and probably unprovable suspicion that a large percentage of SC customers are men with SOs (wives or GFs) that don't know they are going, or at least don't know what all goes on in the clubs. That their SOs wouldn't approve of hubby/bf paying a beautiful young girl to grind on their penis (clothed or not). And that the dancers are very cognizant of the fact that many of their customers are engaging in activities that their SOs would not approve of. And that they last thing the dancers want is for their large customer base to be entirely honest with their SOs, because if they were they wouldn't have many customers left.
"Honey, I am going out tonight and spend our left over money on some sweet young thing who is going to grind on my cock." How many guys here honestly have SOs that would say "Okay honey, go have a good time, we will take that vacation we were saving for next month".
It is like Philip Morris "Hey, we just sell the cigarettes, it is not our fault if people buy it. We leave it up the consumer to make an informed decision" True, but the last thing Philip Morris really wants is for people to be knowledgable, health-concerned customers. They thrive on the fact that people aren't .
In the same way strippers thrive on the fact that many men (again an unproven belief) aren't entirely honest with their SOs about how they spend their money.
Such is life. I see like so many other things. It is another imperfect situation, but it is what it is. The customers aren't blaimless, but nor are the strippers. It is a mutual arrangement and there are plenty of unaware SOs out there that would feel decieved, yet neither the stripper nor the customer is motivated to make the SOs aware.
You are absolutely right. I have no motivation to make a customer's SO aware that they go to strip clubs. I have no motivation to take responsibility for someone else's relationship. What goes on between a customer and his wife/girlfriend is THEIR business. Not mine. By the same token, what goes on between me and my SO is none of the customer's business. My only responsibility towards the customer is to be sexy, fun, and entertaining; to not over charge for dances, (i.e. not charging for 5 dances if he only got 4), and to never promise more than I intend to do during a dance. That's it.
My outside-the-club responsibility only extends to me, my SO, and our families. My SO knows that I'm a stripper because he met me at the club. (Just in case anyone is curious......we were both single when we met.) His family knows what I do because I told them. And my family knows what I do because I told them. If anyone I meet in the future wonders what I do for a living, they'll know because I'll tell them. IMHO, that is where my responsibility ends.
However, for the sake of arguement, let's PRETEND that the relationship a customer has with his SO and all the lies and/or honesty within it are my responsibility. How should I go about fulfilling it???? How should I make sure that a customer's SO knows that he was at a strip club??? How should I go about doing that? Should I try to steal his wallet during a dance so that I can look at his driver's liscence and get his address, then go over to his house on my day off and have a little chat with his wife???? Does that sound like a good idea.???
Kittie, just to be clear, I wasn't pointing any fingers at the dancers. It is not your responsibility to make the customer's SO aware so I really wouldn't even try to answer the hypothetical question.
Let me try to make this clear... it has been hard to do so but I will try again...
Put aside your personal involvement in the customer<->dancer scenerio. All I (and a few others) are saying is let's at least be honest with ourselves about the nature of the customer/dancer relationship/business.
We don't need to "fix" anything at this point, because in reality we won't manage to fix anything anyway, but we can cat least be honest with ourselves about the nature of the situation.
The original question was about a double standard... I am going to rephrase it a bit below:
"Do dancer's make money off men who lie to their SO's about going to SCs or about what goes on in SCs"
and now the assumption
Most SOs wouldn't approve of their husbands spending their money at SCs or doing what they do at SCs.
and now the other side of the question
"If a dancer had a choice between customers who lie to their SOs about SC activities, or honest customers but significantly less of them, which would you choose?"
I appreciated Erotic's response, but she didn't acknowledge the hard to acknowledge issue which was key to the question. She tried to "fix" it by suggesting all men be honest with their wives about the SC activity. Realisitically that won't happen.
So here is the key to understanding this (and so many other tough questions in life). Don't try to fix it, don't take responsibility for fixing it or for the issue, but do be entirely honest about where you stand.
The bottom line question is do (some) dancers thrive on men who lie to their SOs about their SC activity, and if they didn't lie, the dancers would be out a lot of money ...
This isn't a pretty issue - you may not come out smelling like a rose or squeaky clean, but nor will us customers... but we are trying to at least see the situation for what it is, no BS, no telling lies to ourselves, no pointing fingers.
"
Re:Double Standard - Take 2
Given the wide variety of races, cultures, economic background, education, personality, integrity, etc. of the customers who have patronized the clubs I've worked in.......I am absolutely positive that a portion of the money I've earned has come from someone who was lying to their SO.
Now would I choose to dance only for those customers who are honest with their SO about their SC activity......in my idea of a perfect world that's exactly how it would go. But I'll never have that option. Because unless a customer comes out and tells me directly that he is lying to his SO, I'm never going to know if the man I'm dancing for is honest or not. I'm certainly not going to ask questions about his relationship because that would be hypocritical and disrespectful due to the fact that I don't particularly want an SC patron asking me personal questions about my SO. Therefore, I will never have the chioce because I won't have the knowledge on which to base that choice.
Re:Double Standard - Take 2
P.S. I forgot to add that, in my perfect world, not only would the customers' SOs know about the journeys to the SC, they would participate......and I would make twice as much money ;)
Re:Double Standard - Take 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kittie link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25559#msg25559 date=1091302446
I am absolutely positive that a portion of the money I've earned has come from someone who was lying to their SO.
Now would I choose to dance only for those customers who are honest with their SO about their SC activity......in my idea of a perfect world that's exactly how it would go.
Great kitty, we are almost there... There is still one tough question to be answered (and it is the one question nobody wants to answer).
So here is the hypothetical question to answer.
Let's suppose that suddenly you live in that perfect world. Problem is in that perfect world the SOs are told the truth, the SOs disapprove, and most of the married men with money stop coming to the clubs. In addition, most men with GFs stop coming to the clubs.
The result is your income is reduced by let's say 75%. So for every $1.00 you make today, you would make only 25 cents. For every thousand dollars you make today, you would only make $250. I don't know what the actual figure would be, but for the sake of making the point I am guessing most of the money spent at SCs comes from men with GFs or wives that would disapprove.
So there it is... your two choices. If you had to choose between:
1.) Customers that lie to their SOs, but you make what you make today, or...
2.) Honest customers, but you make a 1/4th of what you make today.
What is more important to you. Honest customers or your income?
p.s., For the customers the reverse question is What is more important to you. Honesty with your SO or getting lap dances at a SC?
Re:Double Standard - Take 2
This is not a perfect world. A perfect world is one in which people do the things they want to without having to lie about it. They have an SO, AND go to the strip club or have a gf or have sex with escorts, with the SO's approval. THAT is a perfect world. Honesty and freedom to do what you want.
In ANY business you are going to deal with customers who do things you don't morally approve of. It doesn't just apply here.
Like I said before, if you have a mate you have to lie to because they wouldn't approve of something you do, then you need to find someone else you can be honest with. Why don't you all come clean and just say "Hey, I go to sc, I get lap dances." and give all the details. If they dont' like it, show them the fucking door. You'll be surprised at how free and alive you feel, because you aren't being controlled by another person or by the lies you tell.
Darren, I noticed that on the pink site you agreed with me when I said the dancer should not have lied to her SO about her job. Yet, you think it's okay to lie to the SO about going to the sc..... the double standard is clear. As you will see, I have no double standards.
Re:Double Standard - Take 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by erotictonic link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25569#msg25569 date=1091315979
This is not a perfect world. A perfect world is one in which people do the things they want to without having to lie about it. They have an SO, AND go to the strip club or have a gf or have sex with escorts, with the SO's approval. THAT is a perfect world. Honesty and freedom to do what you want.
"They have an SO, AND go to the strip club or have a gf or have sex with escorts, with the SO's approval. THAT is a perfect world. "
This is a definition of perfect world that sits well with you, but not with everyone. Why not this definition?
"In a perfect world the SO can say no I don't approve of you going to a SC and men/customers wouldn't go"
Really no different then an SO can say no, I don't approve of you spending our money buying a house for another woman. Or I don't approve of you spending our money on raising another women's children. Or any of a zillion other things that an SO might reasonably say I I don't approve of.
In that definition of a perfect world (and it is one that I can reasonably believe a LOT more SOs would be happy with), strip club business would very likely be way way down.
The reality is that many women don't approve of their SOs going to see strippers. I really don't want to live in a fantasy perfect world... the question pertains to the real world we live in. And in that world the question on the table is what is more important to a stripper:
Her/His income as a stripper
or
Customers that are honest with their SO.s (even if that means a significant loss in income),