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Dancer shortage in Toronto
There has recently been alot of talk about the dancer shortage in canada. Apparently canadians are not interested in stripping for a living.
A few years ago Human Resources and Skills Development Canada officially declared the country had a shortage of exotic dancers.Things got so bad at one point, Ottawa had to come up with a stripper visa program to deal with the shortage of exotic dancers in this country. Last year, 500 Romanian women got such visas.
This year Ottawa has decided to tighten the rules that give foreign strippers easy access to temporary work visas. Until now strip club owners did not have to prove their case each time they wanted to import performers. Due to the recent changes, it will be much harder. Strip clubs must make a business case whenever they want to bring in a dancer, meaning the owner will have to prove there is a lack of Canadians to do the job. Such recent changes have caused an outburst by club owners.
To Canadians.....Are these new rules working in your favor.....meaning there is less competition? or do you feel they ar hurting you.....meaning shortage of customers?
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Re: Dancer shortage in Toronto
That sounds great from a strippers point of view.
That means that women are going to be able to stand up for themselves. It means that they won't be forced to pay some rich club owner to work and they won't have to compete with a bunch of desperate hookers.
I wish that we had that problem here in the U.S..
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I've noticed that the Romanians that are left in the clubs are all veterans from years ago and no new girls are imported. So whatever they say about imported strippers - it ends here.
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Re: Dancer shortage in Toronto
Here's my posting on another forum, and the email I got in reply:
Quote:
Posted - Nov 25 2004 : 8:36:34 PM
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I don't know, sounds weird to me...what's the deal with Canada and Romanian strippers? I mean, why not Estonian, or Hungarian...why is it specifically Romania that we're giving out visas to?
Doesn't really bother or affect me at all, but it DOES sound fishy...
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Scarlett
www.scarlettvancouver.com
Dear Madam
The reason they come from Romania is that the original syndicate had a working relationship with criminals and traffickers in that country but few contacts in Estonian, Lithuania, Slovakia etc. The girls were rounded up and exported collectively rather than as individuals. When (Canadian) officials in Bucharest would do their job by checking ages etc. they would face the prospect of being discussed by people in a strip club or a parking lot in Canada. Romania was selected because organized crime in two places (as opposed to several places) were able to work together etc.
The last hours of the exotic dancer scheme saw negotiations between child protection advocates and Canadian officials. The short summary is that the former told the latter unless the juvenile aspects were resolved it did not matter if the scheme was trashed the next day or the same day - there could be no assurances offered. Giovanni Gatti (MInister Judy Sgro's office) was then supposed to call me to see if anything was workable by way of an understanding on that stumbling block. No call was placed to me and I called some Americans and told them that the negotiations had ceased without any assurances being offered.
The Canadian media contacted me a few hours later. It now looks like I fly to Canada to testify to Shapiro etc. Generally if one pays a lot of money one can get dancers. The Romanian scheme was that clubs wanted Romanian girls to do very much for very little. In my experience of Bosnia, Kosovo and points in between, if one pays a lot of cash one will always be able to recruit in situ. It was a cash and control scenario. Juveniles were sent to Canada as part of the scheme because 'they could' and so 'they did' - I frequently encounter that sort of opportunity and disposition model. Trafficking is that sort of business.
Gregory Carlin
Director
IATC
I don't know why he felt compelled to send that to me, or what the IATC is, but it's interesting reading, anyways [;)]
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Re: Dancer shortage in Toronto
PS, as background info, our immigration minister, Judy Sgro, stepped down recently after two scandals, one involving apparent preference given to the application for residence of a Romanain Stripper who had worked on her campaign...
see, we have scandals too! lol
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Yup, this was actually on the news way back in October or around that time. I'm a small town dancer and I've had many agencies come to me asking me to work in Montreal and Toronto. Weird because I don't even really advertize myself. Anyway, I turned them down or just never replied to them. It'd be cool but I can't just drop everything here and leave.
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Re: Dancer shortage in Toronto
Just a point - I personally have never EVER met an underage foreign dancer. In fact most of them are probably older than the clubs would like. I have never EVER met a dancer from anywhere who was here against her will - I have met several dancers who did not have their contracts honoured, who were denied pay etc., but never one who was "forced" into dancing (or anything else) by anything but financial need. There is an organization here that is very anti-sex work and they couch that agenda in the more universally appealing one of "trafficking in women" implying or claiming lack of consent, kidnapping etc.
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I worked in upstate NY and heard a LOT about how Toronto, Montreal and Niagra Falls strip clubs beat the hell out of our's - why, because contact was a lot higher for a lot less money. A fellow I know and his wife went there and were like "once you go there, US stripclubs are lame." Now I'm no fan of 3' rules or anything, but expecting a dildo show or full-contact nude lapdance for $10? If that is the case, I can see WHY there is a shortage of Canadian dancers.
If you can make a decent living off of upscale low(er) contact clubs, when the weather gets warmer sign me up.
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Stay tuned for next weeks post "There are way to many traveling dancers in Toronto".
I work at one of the top 3 clubs in Toroto and I can inform you that THERE IS NO DANCER SHORTAGE. Last week was the worst on record for many girls I work with. There are frequently more girls that men in the clubs (not just my own).
There is still a complete saturation of foreign dancers, primarily Romanian. Not a damn thing has changed.
I doubt there will ever be a 'dancer shortage' in a city of millions, including many, many, women living under the poverty line.
Let's be realistic. The last thing Toronto needs is more dancers.
I'm starting a different thread:
"Customer Shortage in Toronto: We So Hungry!"
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Ladies, believe half of what you see, some of what you hear and NONE of the title in this thread.
There is NO DANCER SHORTAGE IN TORONTO ! Our clubs are completely saturated with woman of all ethnic groups... It has been this way for many years.
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Re: Dancer shortage in Toronto
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yea
There is NO DANCER SHORTAGE IN TORONTO ! Our clubs are completely saturated with woman of all ethnic groups... It has been this way for many years.
I repeat: NO DANCER SHORTAGE!
Where are the other Toroto girls to attest to this? The clubs are dead, and when a customer finally does come in, he gets accosted by 5 girls who can't speak a word of proper english and try to put their hands down his pants or meet him later at a hotel.
By the time a Canadian girl comes along, they are so fed up with the parade that we have some of the rudest customers in north america, and the WORLD!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 242_fair
Where are the other Toroto girls to attest to this?
I’m wondering the same thing, were are all the Toronto sexy Ladies?
We always have dancer here from ALL over, this sort of uncalculated, misinformed, and completely inaccurate information could be a financial tragedy for many woman.
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[Quote:CrescentLuna] I worked in upstate NY and heard a LOT about how Toronto, Montreal and Niagra Falls strip clubs beat the hell out of our's - why, because contact was a lot higher for a lot less money. A fellow I know and his wife went there and were like "once you go there, US stripclubs are lame." Now I'm no fan of 3' rules or anything, but expecting a dildo show or full-contact nude lapdance for $10? If that is the case, I can see WHY there is a shortage of Canadian dancers.
If you can make a decent living off of upscale low(er) contact clubs, when the weather gets warmer sign me up.
whoa there, cowgirl! There are NO dildo shows here - it's illegal to imply ANY kind of sex. You can't finger yourself or even bring a dildo onstage. Also, for $10, it's only in Montreal, and it's not Full contact - just above the waist. In Toronto it's $20 and amount of contact depends on the club. Most of them tell you no boob touching.
Yes, there are too many women dancing in Toronto. And by far not enough customers. That's why I migrated to the boondocks where there's only 1 club *laugh meniacaly*
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dammit... how do you do the quote thing?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by livenudegirlsunite
That sounds great from a strippers point of view.
That means that women are going to be able to stand up for themselves. It means that they won't be forced to pay some rich club owner to work and they won't have to compete with a bunch of desperate hookers.
I wish that we had that problem here in the U.S..
I wish this was the case but actually the opposite in many cases. In the late 1900’s lol.. 1997 to today in some places.. Prostitution was rampant and completely common. This “Importing dancers thing also happened to be during the same time frame which LAP DANCING was legalized. Coincidence? I think NOT. You girls wouldn’t believe what was happening in some of our clubs.:'(
Dancer's were RUN OUT of the clubs by prostitutes.>:( At one point clubs were allowed to have complete closed of private rooms and stuff. It was crazy. Hookers every were!!!
It’s not like this today, clubs have tightened the rules and there's a variety of clubs girls can choose from.
P.S.. I haven’t seen a new import in yrs!
And once again.. NO DANCER SHORTAGE IN TORONTO lmao! Brass rail has like 150 girls working their!! North Toronto Clubs have 100+.. well you get the point.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yea
Dancer's were RUN OUT of the clubs by prostitutes.>:( At one point clubs were allowed to have complete closed of private rooms and stuff. It was crazy. Hookers every were!!!
.
The clubs Fantasia (Richmond Hill) and Bunnies (Markham) would be the most obvious examples. These now-defunct clubs were beneficiaries of the 1990's boom in imported dancers because of the lap-dance bi-law, as well as the temporary worker visa program. At one point Fantasia was operating a full service hourly-rated hotel right inside the club. It was Amsterdam in North America. BJ's were done on the main floor on day shift in the late 90's, and the club was situated directly arcoss the road from a Catholic and United Church!
The foreign women stayed. Why would they leave? Everyone had $1000 nights all week long. People had never seen that kind of money in their lives, women came here with a backpack and a g-string and soon drove high-end Mercedes and rented luxe condos.
But then the no-lapdance bi-law went into effect. A major crackdown in 1999 saw well over 200 women arrested in massive raids from Mississauga to Markham. Girls were charged with prostitution, many many customers were also arrested, their faces shown on tv and newspapers. It was very trumatic for the scene in Toronto & area.
The structural integrity of the Toronto dancing scene colapsed. Many of the customers never returned to the scene since it was cleaned way up (note: around this time the massage parlours sprung up in the abundance we are now used to). Customers were lost, AND several of the clubs never opened again thanks to the lobbying and media that portrayed them for what they were. Dirty girls migrated to the clubs that were clean enough to withstand the raids, and the saturation worsened. Prices were a constant source of coflict due to the imported women undercutting the college-girls and working local single moms.
The business was messed up, BUT, the visa-dancers were already comfortable, and had no reason to leave - many of them had already immigrated, and those who hadn't could get their citizenship in a couple years anyway. It was better than life overseas.
And the rumor of Toronto's possabilities continued to spread long after it was justified, much like the myth of Japan's potential continues to draw western women across the globe long after the hay-day has passed. But unlike westerners who travel to Japan and return home in dissapointment, the eastern european girls find that even as a 'bottom-feeder' they have more future here than 'back home'. So they stay.
It's a kind of sad circle, and I hope to one day make a documentrary about the local scene.
In conclusion, THERE IS NO DANCER SHORTAGE IN TORONTO!!
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Re: Dancer shortage in Toronto
>whoa there, cowgirl! There are NO dildo shows here - it's illegal to imply ANY kind of sex. >You can't finger yourself or even bring a dildo onstage. Also, for $10, it's only in Montreal,
>and it's not Full contact - just above the waist. In Toronto it's $20 and amount of contact >depends on the club. Most of them tell you no boob touching.
Wasn't it Toronto where it was said on here that Tangerine Dream as a feature grabbed a house-girl and did a dildo show on stage? I could've been confusing that story, though. I had heard dildo-shows were common, though.
When I say full-contact I mean anything covered by a g-string is off-limits to the customer, but only that - not full service.
Is the $20 canadian or US?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorn
They fall into desperation rather easily and simply go with the flow. They aren't being held at gun point, but by their feelings of having no place else to turn other than to the very people who have placed them in the situation in the first place.
It isn't a new game. It has been happening in the trafficing of asian women, partcularly Korean, for ages.
Its well documented by law enforcement and well respected human rights organizations and has nothing to do with any "anti-sex work" issues.
I agree with Thorn.
Lets not sugar coat this industry and say that it NEVER victimizes foreign women, Jenny.
It's all fine and dandy for you to state that YOU have joined the business of your own free will and are not a victim of preditory agents and club owners and 'managers', but, at least SOME foreign women have terrible stories to tell about their experience here in Canada.
Please don't attempt to deprive people of an acknowledgment of their suffering. It is very selfish.
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242:
Actually, I didn't say that it never victimizes foreign women; I think what I said was that the whole trafficking women against their will is a red herring. I'm sure it has happened, because everything has happened. I did, briefly, have the privilege of involvement with sex workers advocacy (like, from their end) and the information gathered by women (and men) in the industry is very different specifically because they do not have an a priori assumption of the women's victim status.
I think women who come to Canada to work in strip clubs, massage parlours etc., are, however, frequently made to work illegal hours, denied pay (I remember meeting a woman who sued a company. She was brought here under a visa, worked for a few months, and then was denied her shift pay. They said their agreement was that she would freelance, which is patently ridiculous because she could not have gotten a visa like that). Those few women who have, in fact, been kipnapped - god forbid that I would deny their suffering.
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By the way - this is off topic - is "gotten" a word? I keep using it, despite the fact that whever I read it I have a little cringe.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenny
is "gotten" a word?
Microsoft word doesn’t highlight it as an error lol, so I think it is a word.
Back to the topic:
There are most certainly many women here in Canada and all over the world forced to work in the sex industry. From my knowledge these woman usually work in Massage houses, brothels etc.
I’ve made many friends who are dancer who came with “agencies” and were COMPLETELY ripped of and manipulated by their “agents”. These woman were forced to pay $$$$$$$$$$$$ for years out of fear of being returned to their country’s.
They were told, free flight, visa, etc.. Upon their arrival they were told they had to pay it all back and much more. On top of this, because they were “sponsored” they had to live in the address provided by their sponsor and pay ridicules amounts of rent for low-end housing.
They HAD to work in a specific club for a certain amount of YRS and work 6 days a week! Most of the clubs these girls were placed in are full contact with bad reps.. Once the contracts were over and their papers received, all the girls I know (many) now live and work happily with their independence.
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There is a dancer shortage in Toronto, Most of the Clubs on Yonge Street have most of the Girls in Toronto and it is Mostly a Tourist area so financially they can survive with that many girls. The City of Toronto has caused most of the recent shortage with License issues.
In the past most Agencies that are controlled in Europe did anything to get a girl to leave her Country for work-They simply would sign up anybody and whoever they could find-The Club her would pick up the Agency commission and all cost of getting them here and have to keep spending because once there here what do you do with them if they have no experience,no clothes, and no clue that they have to perform nude-The Agencies in the Past have lied to most of the Girls that came to Canada-They have told they are to Model-stage dance- waitress-bartend-and all that time not telling them what there Job duties are period. Send a picture of a pretty girl to the club that has to sponsor the girl and agree to pay-when she gets here she is nothing like the picture and the picture is 10 years old and now what do you do if your the club owner. Now there are some exceptions to the above mentioned and there are some beautiful girls out-there but because of all the outs in the old present system most of the legit dancers were double booked by the crooked agencies and they got double paid-show up at the one club (club owners would pay the agents) and then the next week the agent would sweep them off to the next promised club. The Agencies in the past are to blame not the Club owners this time.
Now the City of Toronto has hiked up all the Fees and made it very difficult to get a license in Toronto ($262.00) for the first year plus a 4-6 week wait for your license unless you get a police background check ahead of time $50 and that takes 3 days. Now if you decided to become a dancer in Toronto it is probably for financial reasons. Do you have $300 and all your ID?you can become a dancer-If not what are your choices,go work outside of Toronto where there are no licenses or work at a illegal massage parlour or the Streets. That is the reason why there is a shortage in a nutshell.
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Im not sure that I want to wade into the blame question here,.
However, I was checking out a couple clubs to possible work at while I was visiting toronto over the holidays. There certainly DIDNT seem to be a shortage of dancers.
Two of my friends work there now, and they felt that there were plenty of freelancers available, and that money wasnt as good this year as last...for what its worth, my 2 cents
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I want everyone to know that SI Canada is attempting to recruit women for his crappy clubs.
This goes directly to my point about the 'myth' of money to be had in Toronto.
I doubt I am the only one he had contacted in a PM from this thread.
He advertises in many local newspapers too, but I guess you can only con so many people so he's looking for more whores for his pseudo strip-clubs here online.
I talked about his club on Kipling in another thread: the place was dead when I went in to check it out. I talked to an employee (not a dancer) on the dl and she told me that the girls do all kinds of extras out in the open 'dance area' (there is no champ room).
There was like 5 customers. There was only one dancer and she was fat and kinda drunk looking on stage.
You know, lets all face it: the pimps are the reason this industry is in its present condition in Toronto. They lure so many women. Of course, to them, there is ALWAYS a dancer shortage. Their quest for 'New Talent' is never ending. Like the song says, 'Pimpin Aint Easy'.
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Damn. I hope that wasn't me. What was she dancing to?