Arizona Minutmen stopping illegal immigrants before patrols even begin !
Re: Arizona Minutmen stopping illegal immigrants before patrols even begin !
how long is this effort suppose to go on for?
Re: Arizona Minutmen stopping illegal immigrants before patrols even begin !
Re: Arizona Minutmen stopping illegal immigrants before patrols even begin !
that's it???? Okay so for a couple months the "problem" will be somewhat fixed but what happens after that... this is a short term solution to a long term problem. Also is every dark skinned or hispanic person going to be detained since they "might" be illegal? How do they know by looking at a person they are illegal? I know if they are running across the border of course, but this will lead to people being questioned everywhere in that area at the grocery store, getting gas, etc. In the story they even said they "got one" at the bible college cause he asked for food and water.
Re: Arizona Minutmen stopping illegal immigrants before patrols even begin !
Hopefully this exercise in exposing the pathetic border situation will embarrass our elected officials into protecting our national sovereignty.
Re: Arizona Minutmen stopping illegal immigrants before patrols even begin !
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casual Observer
Hopefully this exercise in exposing the pathetic border situation will embarrass our elected officials into protecting our national sovereignty.
Nah, in order to be ashamed you have to have a sense of shame. Most politicians have no shame. ;D
Re: Arizona Minutmen stopping illegal immigrants before patrols even begin !
Actually, all this is really accomplishing is getting camera shots of the Arizona/Mexico border into the national media, and redirecting would-be illegal immigrants towards the California, Nevada and Texas borders instead ! I suspect that drug smugglers, gang members or anybody else with half a brain will simply wait out the month of April and let the Minutemen have their fun, then go back to business as usual in May !
However, it IS possible that the media coverage of the Minutemen will allow supporters to push heavily for signing of the Real ID act which, if passed, would actually do something meaningful in reducing the future illegal immigration rate.
Re: Arizona Minutmen stopping illegal immigrants before patrols even begin !
One thing I don't think most people in the U.S. understand is that a lot of people in boder states don't want security along the border tightened. Being from Texas, I can tell you that the economy sort of depends on a steady source of cheap, unskillled labor that illegals bring. Of course Texas has a huge hispanic population so it's hard to say exactly how many illegals there are in the state. Not everyone with brown skin or whose primary language is spanish is an illegal. However, occasionally the INS will drive up to a construction site, or the kitchen of a restaurant, or the housekeeping area of a hotel and start checking ID's. Those businesses find themselves severely understaffed when the INS leaves. If you were to remove all the illegal aliens from Texas, it would cause a lot disruption to the ecnonomy. Its no accident that GWB, former governor of Texas, has proposed a guest worker(?) program to let them stay in the country. Yes, I know, terrorist could sneak across the border into the U.S. I'm not saying that's how it should be. I'm saying that there are a lot people that like the status quo.
Re: Arizona Minutmen stopping illegal immigrants before patrols even begin !
Well, let's call the proposed 'guest worker' program what it actually amounts to ... an end run around minimum wage laws. IMHO this is a good thing, as it will restore the financial relationship between the dollar value of the actual service being provided by the employee and the dollar cost to the employer of having that employee do the job.
Re: Arizona Minutmen stopping illegal immigrants before patrols even begin !
Actually, I think despite the stereotype, most illegals do make minimum wage. Generally, I think the illegals purchase a forged social security card to present to their employer. The employers are careful to pay them minimum wage, report their earnings to the IRS and all that. That way the employer can claim ignorance if the illegals are ever caught. Of course, any potential employer that scrutinized the documents of all the spanish-speaking applicants more closely than those of the white applicants would be opening himself up for a discrimination lawsuit, so you can't really blame the employers. It's hard not to respect most of the illegals. A lot of them have left their homes and families. They live all together very frugally, sending most of their earnings back home to Mexico.
Even assuming that the majority of illegal aliens make minimum wage, I do agree that their presence does help to keep wages more in line with what the work is truly worth. Besides that, there are some jobs that Americans simply will not do. Years ago I remember the INS had a program with the State Unemployment Bureau. In one instance, the INS raided a chicken processing plant, hauling about 90% of the workers there off to Mexico. The Unemployment Office then sent over people that were out of work and drawing unemployment benefits over to apply for the jobs. A big media circus was made out of it, you know, "look, we're taking away these illegals, so that Americans can get the jobs", that kind of thing. So the owner of the chicken plant hired every single American that was sent over. The local paper went back to the plant a week later and the owner reported that not a single one of the unemployed Americans he had hired lasted more than three days. Processing chickens is dirt, smelly, messy, work, most Americans won't do it. The idea that illegal aliens are taking away jobs from Americans is a myth.
Re: Arizona Minutmen stopping illegal immigrants before patrols even begin !
I'm in favor of immigration but ending the welfare state for natives AND immigrants.
Minimum wage and government regulation and other intrusions takes away far more jobs from Americans than immigrants could even fathom taking. The only thing taking jobs away from Americans is the United STates Government in various incarnations.
I think we are underpopulated if anything. We have vast tracts of land owned by the government sitting idle and due to certain incentives created by government we are plowing over healthy farmland and hurting our best export industry(in addition to things like paying farmers not to farm, etc).
In addition, controlling the border requires a nice dose of statism in the form of agencies like the Border Patrol, the INS, Customs, and so forth. THese are bureaucracies like any other and try their best to grow and expand the power, at the expense of American liberty and especially economic freedom. You should be able to hire(and fire) and trade with whomever you choose, not at the whim of some bureaucrat.
Illegal aliens MAY come over and rob me. The Border Patrol Agents are already doing so since they are paid with taxes. That gives the illegal aliens a better score in my view. THe solution to the immigrant issue to respect private property again and to allow people to exclude, which means repealing anti-discrimination laws and such things as forcing people to deal with certain people, etc. It also requires this dismantling of the welfare state and rational pricing for certain "public" utilities such as the roads and other things which separate those who pay from those who utilize such services.
And since somebody mentioned drug smugglers, this country was founded more or less by smugglers. Many of our founding fathers have more in common with the drug dealers of today than they do with the current political class. John Hancock was a smuggler. Once upon a time in America, smugglers were seen as heroes, as they should be. I salute those who risk life and limb to bring valuable products to those who want them(assuming they avoid aggression on others).
My proposal would be: revert back to open immigration(which we essentially had until the 1920s), abolish the Border Patrol, INS, Customs and maybe the Coast Guard, let people defend their property again with whatever means they desires and respect the dominion of a property owner over his property. Also get all that governmentally held land into the hands of private people. We would benefit greatly from the reduced friction in the movement of labor, materials, and goods, as well as saving money in not needing to fund such bureaucracies mentioned above.
Another thing we(meaning the government here) might consider doing is to stop subsidizing mexico's bad government. One major reason why mexico is regressing in many areas is because we are subsidizing it's blatantly corrupt political class, thus keeping the status quo in place. One major example would be the huge bailout of the peso in the mid-90s. Our military and government are major reasons why so many people leave their homelands to come here. We ruin their country, so many have no choice but to come here and try to have a better life. This has been the case in Latin America, Cuba, Haiti, etc. Heretical, I know.
But, illegal aliens make a good target because they are different, speak a funny language, and typically are brown. You'll never see a politician admit the economy's dire straits are his fault, so a scape goat is always needed. Outsourcing, illegal immigrants, video games making the children crazy, rap music, etc. Always a bogeyman somewhere lurking.
Re: Arizona Minutmen stopping illegal immigrants before patrols even begin !
As a substitute for reform, Fox encouraged Mexicans to skip over the border to the US, to take up life as illegal aliens - and send dollars back to Mexico. Ten percent of Mexican voters now live in the US legally or illegally, but they account for fifty percent of Mexico's purchasing power. And they send home enough billions in foreign exchange to make the government in Mexico very comfortable indeed. The Interamerican Development Bank says they sent home $16.6 billion in 2004.
Mexico is becoming a very unstable place. Mexicans will have a choice in their next election between three socialists... not much of a choice.
Re: Arizona Minutmen stopping illegal immigrants before patrols even begin !
Mexicans have never had much of a choice. I believe every single president that they have ever had was from the same dominant political party.
Re: Arizona Minutmen stopping illegal immigrants before patrols even begin !
Yes, for 70 years PRI (Partido Revolucionario Institucional which means Institutional Revolutionary Party in English) ruled before Fox and the PAN party. The party, under its three different names (PRI, PRM, and PNR) held every major political position for six decades. The first state governor from PAN (Partido Acción Nacional or National Action Party in English) was not even elected until 1989. PAN is supposedly the 'conservative party'. The third party is PRD (Partido de la Revolución Democrática or Party of the Democratic Revolution in English) which was founded in 1988 and including defecting members from PRI. PRD is the 'left wing' party tracing its lineage back to the PCM (Communist Party) and other parties known as PSUM and PMS.
That's probably enough detail here for now.
Re: Arizona Minutmen stopping illegal immigrants before patrols even begin !
They don't get paid shit to do work in Mexico so there is no cash flow or velocity of money ... er wait - we are getting into that whole minimum wage thing that suppossedly is so bad for an economy.
Well, I guess we see what kind of economy one has when working in a real "minimum" wage country yields.
Re: Arizona Minutmen stopping illegal immigrants before patrols even begin !
Funny thing that no one has metioned. Maybe a majority of this site does not know sich they are not part of the hispanic community. There's alot of illegal immigrants that are not "Mexican" but from one of the 5 Central American countries. I know in California there is a huge influx of Central Americans, and in the hands of the INS will they lie and say that they are mexicans? sure why, because if you are mexican they just drop you over the border and that's it whereas if they find out that you are Central American the INS will hold you till they get a cheap airline ticket and send you back that way which will take months. So it is not just "Mexicans" that are an illegal immigrant threat, so that means that there is a bigger issue than just the mexican government and their problems cause illegal immigration.
Re: Arizona Minutmen stopping illegal immigrants before patrols even begin !
Don't worry by the time the Neo Con's are done with this country, anybody without an MBA, JD, and MD will be working for in a "free market economy" for less than minimum wage and no benifits before what ever job they have get's out sourced.
Re: Arizona Minutmen stopping illegal immigrants before patrols even begin !
Immigrants can get work Visas for limited periods. Employers ought to show need and then endorsement of the individual foreign worker. This should be expedited for just causes. Many cautions need to be taken, including minimum salary based on job type or industry so low-life employers don't force the foreign workers' to go on assistance. Border monitoring with satellite scanning should be instituted throughout the southwest border area. The official language should continue to be English. Very low cost Spanish to English classes ought to be offered to existing communities.
If someone pays me, I will work out more extensive plans for these OBVIOUS ideas. But I refuse to do government work without pay. Besides don't we already have "experts"?
Re: Arizona Minutmen stopping illegal immigrants before patrols even begin !
Can't wait 'til one of these clowns oversteps his bounds, makes the mistake of wrongfully forcibly detaining someone and gets arrested and/or hit with a good lawsuit... you just KNOW it's coming!:D
Re: Arizona Minutmen stopping illegal immigrants before patrols even begin !
Second you there, GnBeret!