Tonalin, omega 6 fats, "conjugated"- health questions/discussion
Hey- I've been taking tonalin for a few months, and am pretty happy with it. However, I have always had some concerns about the fact that it is an Omega 6 fat, and I was under the impression that Omega 6's are considered 'bad' fats when taken in amounts that exceed 2:1 (omega 6:omega 3). Does anyone have any information or comments on this? Here's a quote from the book "The Paleo Diet", which I just picked up on suggestion from another thread:
"Eating too many omega 6 fats instead of omega 3 fats increases your risk of heart disease and certain forms of cancer; it also aggrevates inflammatory and autoimmune diseases".
So I've been taking omega 3 pills along with the tonalin- does anyone else do this?
Also, what does the 'conjugated' in 'conjugated linoleic acid' mean, exactly? I'm just wondering if it's something bad like hydrogenation.
Very interested in thoughts/comments!
Re: Tonalin, omega 6 fats, "conjugated"- health questions/discussion
CLA 8 different isomers of fatty acid hydrogenation by linoleic acid. CLA is a monosaturated and saturated trans- fatty acid, it is in essence not a Omega 6 or Omega 3, so to live humans do not need CLA unlike omega 6 or Omega 3 which we need to survive. CLA interfers with conversions of EFA's especially Omega 6 to a derietive which the makes to prostaglandin hormone. You have to watch the amounts of Omega 6 that you get while taking CLA, since most people taking CLA already have little or close to no Omega 6 intake, also lower the amount of omega 3, no use of flax oil since that will make the ratio N6<N3. In a regular healthy diet the ratio that you said 5:1 is correct. By no means is Omega 6 are bad, just like any essential fatty acid amount is key. From the studies I have looked at CLA does well in animal clinical studies but not so well in human clinical trials.
Re: Tonalin, omega 6 fats, "conjugated"- health questions/discussion
Muyaha--
Where did you get the above info and the studies? I would like to see them in more detail.
Re: Tonalin, omega 6 fats, "conjugated"- health questions/discussion
Muyaha, could you elaborate? It may be that I'm tired, but I totally can't make sense of your post. Are you saying that CLA IS a trans fatty acid?
And you state that most people don't get enough Omega 6's from diet- I've never heard that, I've read just the opposite, that we get way too much. I'm confuzzled! More info, please :D ...
Re: Tonalin, omega 6 fats, "conjugated"- health questions/discussion
Are you saying cla is alright for animals but not for humans?
Re: Tonalin, omega 6 fats, "conjugated"- health questions/discussion
Okay during from the studies I read ( I will post the links at the end of this) CLA is a trans fatty acid becauseCLA is made for lionleic acid, the omega 6, which by flipping the bonds changes the bonds in EFA's into conjugated double bonds, then one of the bonds turns, making the hydrogen stable in this new trans configuration. The way that the chemical compound/makeup of CLA is makes it a trans fatty acid.
Regarding being alright for animals vs. humans, I meant that in the studies of CLA that I have read it seems that the results of the trials seem to indictate in animal trials that CLA has many advantages and should be further studied. But you also have to remember in animal trials everything is in a very extremely controlled environment from diet, activity, etc. Whereas in the human studies that I have seen it seems that it might not be so advantagous to look into further studies of CLA in humans. Then again humans are not in an extremely controlled environment in regards to diet, activity, etc. But as clinical studies go, there are always variables that can change a whole study, even the bias of the scientist can change the results of the study.
Regarding OMega 6 and Omega 3 ratios. I meant that those taking CLA their EFA ratio is usually N6<N3 vs. a normal person probably takes in way too much omega 6 (vegetable oil etc.) and hardly any omega 3. But like anything everything has to be done in moderation. I was stating people taking CLA usually have a drastically different ratio of omega 6 to omega 3. During dieting and taking CLA most people already have a low intake of Omega 6 (cutting out vegetable oil and etc) causing the ratio to be N6<N3. CLA interfers with the conversion of EFAs, especially Omega 6, to deriatives which the body makes prostaglandin hormones. So in women high amounts of CLA (I guess dosage higher than what has been recommended) might cause hormone production issues, but I'm not quite sure, but out of all the studies I looked at they all commented on this issue of conversion of EFAs. Also noted was that along with study patients taking CLA the use of flax oil (very high in omega 3) was not recommended due to really messing up the Omega 6 and Omega 3 ratio causing Omega 3 intake very high causing again conversion of EFA issues.
Even the recommended dosages for CLA are kind of confusing. From the animal studies I read they used 5g. maxium. Okay so for a human a recommended dosage would be between 21 to 35 g. But again it shows negative effects at this dose. It's confusing and the more I read the more it confuses me.
Here are the studies I looked at: (For the ncbi site you can see the abstract to look at the whole article you have to have an account.) These are just a few of the articles.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/131/6/1668
http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/full/...&pmid=11229917
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org...full/50/5/1149
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/130/9/2292
http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/130/6/1548
http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/130/5/1140
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org...rint/49/9/1534
http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/130/10/2434
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/128/5/881
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/130/12/2943
Re: Tonalin, omega 6 fats, "conjugated"- health questions/discussion
Thanks! Now I will have to call my biochem professor to help me with these . . . *wink*
Re: Tonalin, omega 6 fats, "conjugated"- health questions/discussion
All the reading I have done has pointed in the direction that one should be mindful of omega 3 consumption, regardless of their added omega 6 intake (CLA) but especially if there omega 6 intake is high.
More often than not these days we get ample amounts of omega 6 from veggie oils, nuts, fatty fruits (olives/avos etc) without even trying, while omega 3 is a lot bit harder to get 1- because of the foods we eat (or don't eat) and 2- beacuse it is easily damaged.
Walnuts, flaxseed/flaxseed oil and fish are all good sources as well as fish oil capsules.
So IMO one should try to conciously up there omega 3 intake regardless, but esp. if there is more omega 6 in the diet (which there often is).
RE Animal studies... yes CLA has proven to be effective in animal studies but a lack of human studies have left it unclear as to the exact benefits and long term damage of CLA.
Personally I like guggul, it is an ayurvedic herb that helps stimulate the metabolisim. There is a link for it on my home page
http://www.kristi-trinity.com/supplements.html at the very bottom under 'Photo Prep' I found that taking guggul on its on 3-4 times a day was more then enough for me ;D
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/syn/guggul.html here is the direct link also.