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Losing respect 4 GF I love/ Rewritten
Allot of intelligent women here. Allot of respect to some of the great post here, and I would love to hear some different perspective and or feed back, opinions, or constructive criticism. All appreciated.
Sincerely
mystery
My GF has always been very upfront honest type of person from the beginning, and she still is, but I’ve noticed her slipping ever since she has started hanging around this girl she meet at her club.
I like to be aware alert and pay attention in general so I notice things, and little nuances, pay attention to my gut intuitive feelings, and evaluate the facts etc, and I like using prevention and to catch things at it’s early states.
I think my GF has been sheltered socially etc, and so hasn’t had as much social experience I think to recognize things and how to handle certain situations, and this girl is playing to her feel good, were just alike, and were best friends sister act, all while stepping on her and insulting her, not only verbally and mentally, but actually physically hurt her once. For example she would make up fake stories about girls talking shit about her to bring her down and have her confront other girls just to mess with her, and she would play to her feel good emotions and pose as a friend to make my GF want to believe her, because after all making someone emotionally feel good to believe something and any kind of deception can work pretty well on allot of people. Just like trying to tell a girl or a guy something that they are blind to they instead will get really defensive towards you or just simply filter out what you are saying and continue on.
So when I first meet this girl I instantly did not like the feel of her energy. She would act all high and mighty and was trying to get my attention. Would dominate conversation with her yapping and obviously just feels like she has to have the spotlight on her at all times, and I could tell she was trouble.
As I notice things about her I would talk to my GF, but knowing how things work try to get the message across to her without raising her defenses, and so latter my GF tells, me she is beginning to notice what I was telling her about her being a pathological liar and jealous of her trying to covertly cut her down while posing as a friend, but I don’t know maybe she felt for some reason she needed more proof or evidence???? How much dose a person need!! Yikes!
So she had this girl as s room mate and after my GF had noticed some things to the point of having enough she calmly cooly told her it wasn’t working out to have her stay there and brought up that she noticed one of her lies RIGHT OUT, but instead of admitting she was wrong she reacted from her ego and she got defensive went psycho, and pushed my GF partly through a wall!!!! I stepped in instantly to stop any more damage, and then she turns to try and attack me with all her might ,and it appeared if she would have used a knife she would have had one. I mean this girl was out of control! I told my GF to call the police as she was hurting and this girl was kind of crazy in how she was trying to attack me, but my GF doesn’t like any confrontation so she refuses, So I take her to put her ass out side ,and her BF comes to take her of our hands thank god LOL. Of course that guy playing the part of a chump gets burned by that girl latter and finally wakes up to dump her ass. My GF had a sore neck and back, so I called to get her checked to make sure she was ok, and it was mostly shock so she was ok.
About 3 weeks latter or so without apologizing this girl just walks up like nothing happened and starts acting all sweet and stuff latter asks for some favors like a ride to work etc, and my GF dose it, because this girl knows how to make my GF go soft!
Any ways so as my GF is hanging out with this girl I start to notice her picking up on some of her nuances, and little expressions etc and shifts in behavior. And of this girl maybe I think might have been sensing I was noticing her and might be a threat to her game tries to no avail from what my GF says to try and hook her up with other guys, and attempts to bug me with saying stuff to my face like she is going to hook up with my GF etc.. I think my GF wanting to make a few friends and her insecurity issues makes her want to still hang with this girl so she can fill her others needs aside from the abusive parts like playing to a best friend kind of act etc.
So after my GF being pushed into the wall and her telling me she learned her lesson. I think she was a little embarrassed to tell me she was giving her another chance and because she knew I did not care for this girl she wanted to avoid hearing me ask her why she would set herself up for more trouble. So as she was going to hang out with her she would act really evasive that she was going to hang out with her which is a shift in her behavior towards be then ever before in our three years together. And also she has always been an all around honest person, but I hear talk about what stories she should make up to not go into work. Instead of just either being brief or strait up honestly and respectful letting them know it was just her personal issue or politely that it was none of their business. So I’m noticing shifts in behavior since she meet this girl and I don’t want that kind of stuff spreading into our relationship, so I talk together a bit about it and she says she will stop doing that, but of course the root of the problem is the influence form this girl she is getting and of course doing the same thing get s the same results.
So where I begin to lose respect is seeing her start on a path to dishonesty and blindness to what is going on.
Any feed back is appreciated
Thank you
Sincerely
Mystery
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Re: Losing respect 4 GF I love of 3 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mystery
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A VICTIM WE ALL CREATE OUR OWN REALITY.
Yes and no. One has to know one has other options to not feel victimized and/or the ability to understand whats happening and why. I could go on.
You can take 2 people and expose them to the same event and it will have a different impact on both of them.
You have been giving the keen sense of intuition. Be aware that not everyone has that gift.
I am going through something simular with my sister. I have learned to step back and let her learn from her mistakes. Maybe you should do the same with your GF. Cut her some slack though, some people just have to find things out for themselves.
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Re: Losing respect 4 GF I love of 3 years
Quote:
she learns quickly, and is great with sales as with rectal
This is the only thing of interest from your spiel. She is good at rectal? Then she's a keeper ;)
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Re: Losing respect 4 GF I love of 3 years
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Originally Posted by Farrah_Holiday
Yes and no. One has to know one has other options to not feel victimized and/or the ability to understand whats happening and why. I could go on.
You can take 2 people and expose them to the same event and it will have a different impact on both of them.
You have been giving the keen sense of intuition. Be aware that not everyone has that gift.
I am going through something simular with my sister. I have learned to step back and let her learn from her mistakes. Maybe you should do the same with your GF. Cut her some slack though, some people just have to find things out for themselves.
thank you for your reply. Yeah it's important not to crowed people ever and let them be free.
yeah it's a BALANCE and everyone caries responsibility.. I think I may say something far to one side at times to make a point with myself or something.
I have a hard time believing that more people aren't intuitive I guess. I guess I'm with eh belief some people chose not to have or listen to their intuition then anything else. Seems like some people are more COMFORTABLE in a haze stuck on themselves then to be aware. Kind of like the matrix I guess. I don't believe especially with aware women tuned into her intuition can really ever be fooled, but if she ignores intuition but if she likes the fantasy she is in or whatever she will gladly be blind it seems. That is why allot of people can be easily played because they often believe what they want to believe.
yeah I believe understanding is the cure to everything which is why I really strive to be as unde4standing as possible everyday in my life. Learning is a never ending process. And really when I have felt negative or something towards someone or whatever when I strive and find understanding to it I really feel softened by it. So I guess ignorance is really the biggest cause of disease in this world.
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Re: Losing respect 4 GF I love of 3 years
can i get some cliff notes on that first post?
i think your girl is also trying to get your attention in some weird ass way :-\
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Re: Losing respect 4 GF I love of 3 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katrine
This is the only thing of interest from your spiel. She is good at rectal? Then she's a keeper ;)
HEH dam spell checker! :-[ LOL I corrected it as I mean tot say RETAIL. HEH LOL
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Re: Losing respect 4 GF I love of 3 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AinNY
can i get some cliff notes on that first post?
i think your girl is also trying to get your attention in some weird ass way :-\
Ok yeah Sometimes when trying to describe a relationship scenario I can be long winded with the details as far as my perspective and the details in it and surrounding it, and I was actually trying to be short… heh Any ways basically I feel my GF is not respecting herself by allowing herself to be disrespected by this girl physically among other ways so far and still hang out with her and be blind to the rules of the way things work, and it’s having negative impact on our relationship. And you know I hate to be told what to do as with allot of people, so I just instead some protective , input ,and opinions and stuff about the situation to maybe give me some understanding etc That I might be able to have a better discussion about it My GF
She seems to be suckered in by a sweet act this girl puts on or something.
thank you for that thought. Yeah it crossed my mind it may be possible that she is trying to get my attention weather consciously or not as I have had my focus on other areas lately, but didn't feel giving the subject so much attention as I didn't feel she would really be open to discussing it ESPECIALLY with how irritated I was feeling about the whole thing I didn’t want that to taint having a open discussion about it so I more felt like ejecting then anything I think. Tend to do that when I'm not quite sure how to respond, so if that is the case it got her the opposite of what she wanted, and that is probably the best as to show that kind of stuff can't be used as a tool for attention. And when she called a bit ago that she was sad she got stood up I didn't give anything for empathy an kept it short out of irritation that she would be foolish enough to open herself to more abuse.
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Re: Losing respect 4 GF I love of 3 years
Do you think she and her roomie are sleeping together ? Thats honestly the feeling I got from reading your original post ! It wouldn't be the first time. Why would she be so emotionally attached ?
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Re: Losing respect 4 GF I love of 3 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farrah_Holiday
Do you think she and her roomie are sleeping together ? Thats honestly the feeling I got from reading your original post ! It wouldn't be the first time. Why would she be so emotionally attached ?
No that girl TRIED to give me that IMPRESSION because she was trying to be bitchy because she knew I didn’t like her and sensed I was messing up her agenda which this girl has a very bad reputation for dram etc. It was clear to me very quickly upon meeting her without hearing anything about her.
My GF has always been very honest with me. Although I’ve noticed subtle things I don’t like and changes in behavior she has never displayed to me before since meeting her like being evasive that she was meeting her because she knows how I feel about her, and I think it was to avoid me getting irritated that night, and I tried to be cool, but I was irritated withdrew a bit upon pressing her a bit if she was hanging with her after being evasive for a second time.
But as far as the general history of our relationship she has shown her self to be honest and trustworthy and it’s in her upbringing as her parents are very honest people as well although I don’t particularly care for her parents. But you know I’ve grown up seem friends turn from 4.0 A+ students to flunkies and honest people turn from honest to pathological liars. We can all be turned out if we don’t keep ourselves aware and in check, because it’s gradual subtle shift like hair growing so best catch things at the EARLY stages before it goes to deep. I’ve always been for preventive : ) We are either moving towards our goals or away all the time, better or worse, for higher evolution or degrading.
Concerns have come up though as before she was generally very honest with every one. Including friends and family and such, but have seen her suggesting if she should lie about how she couldn’t make it to work used to be foreign to her character so that stuff catches my attention, and I had a discussion with her that it is perfectly ok to respectfully tell people it’s none of their business in a polite way or just be very brief or short instead of feeling the need to make up stories and lie.
Any ways although I always pay attention and stay keen t things. As I like to keep it real etc as of now I still trust her, and have no reason to believe she is cheating on me.
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Re: Losing respect 4 GF I love of 3 years
My head hurts.
Someone please stop the pain...
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Re: Losing respect 4 GF I love of 3 years
Yeah my GF called again to say hi, and expressed that she is not happy that she was stood up. Makes me wonder if it's worth saying anything since this is just one of many things with this girl, so I HIGHLY doubt she’s learned yet just to keep away from such girls. I think I may have said all I can say and now that she has to learn for herself, because I think anything more might just create more resistance. You know like a girls parents telling a girl to stay away form a guy.. I know that never works LOL . In fact it seems to help.
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Re: Losing respect 4 GF I love of 3 years
Well then all I can suggest is step back and give her some space to learn and grow on her own. Dancing can change a person, sometimes for the worse or for the better.
You strike me as a good guy with an excellent take on life. Its hard but let her learn on her own. Because sometimes telling someone not to do something only makes them what to do it more. ie Hanging out with the "bitchy, controlling" friend, etc.
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Re: Losing respect 4 GF I love of 3 years
wow a girlfriend...I always assumed you were gay, my bad
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Re: Losing respect 4 GF I love of 3 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farrah_Holiday
Well then all I can suggest is step back and give her some space to learn and grow on her own. Dancing can change a person, sometimes for the worse or for the better.
You strike me as a good guy with an excellent take on life. Its hard but let her learn on her own. Because sometimes telling someone not to do something only makes them what to do it more. ie Hanging out with the "bitchy, controlling" friend, etc.
Thank you. Yeah I know I can't stand to be told what to do LOL, and I won't expect her too. In fact she feels the same way. And really I am not at all the type of person that would respect someone who allowed themselves to be told what to do so I'm glad she is that way otherwise I might not care to be with her and or would lose interest. <BR> <BR>
Leaders don't tell people what to do, and I would like to be there and be able to to give her valuable input in a non pushy way to help her make her own decisions just as I value her enough to consider her input. I always appreciate feedback. Great to be able to be supportive of each others best potential as good team mates.
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Re: Losing respect 4 GF I love of 3 years
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Originally Posted by Blade
wow a girlfriend...I always assumed you were gay, my bad
Yeah completely strait here. Me and my GF have worked together making videos and such and I help her with her website as a photographer www.lustlisa.com although she hasn’t put her newest pics up yet. But I do allot of solo gay videos and phone sex for guys but I’m not at all gay. Not something that really turns me on and nor is it a lifestyle I‘d be interested in so there is two strikes against it., although I have fun showing off and I’m hard most of the time any ways so I might as well turn on the camera and make some money. I have no qualms about it.
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Re: Losing respect 4 GF I love of 3 years
this post was too hard to read... call me a stickler for grammer, but the english student in me is screaming!:D
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Re: Losing respect 4 GF I love of 3 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade
wow a girlfriend...I always assumed you were gay, my bad
:rotfl:
im dying over here
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Re: Losing respect 4 GF I love of 3 years
If ages listed are correct, you're 23 and she's 18. You two are both VERY young and these kinds of things are going to be rampant in those ages. Believe me, it's all part of the growing process.
What you have here is simply a love-triangle. It's a three way exertion of power with your girlfriend in the middle. She's being tugged by both arms, one direction from you, another direction from a female friend that has won her trust. This is a bad place for her to be, especially since the two opposing sides are dictating polar opposite mindsets and beliefs.
From everything you've expressed, it sounds like your girlfriend is naive and easily led. She stands in confusion between the two paths and is pulled back and forth and seeing friction from the both of you in regards to which way she teeters. This is tragically VERY common of young girls (young people in general, actually) since she really doesn't know who she is yet and having trouble deciding. She's going to be very vulnerable until this process happens.
The problem is- she's not being allowed to define this herself. She has you on one side telling her how things are, and a female friend telling her an opposite story of how things are. It's two different ideals being spoon fed to her and she's caught up in the middle, unable to completely dismiss one or the other. She's also unable to do this on her own since there are negative ramifications for her whichever way she goes.
What really needs to happen is a couple things:
1) You need to BACK down on her female friend a little. While you seem sure of the motives of her girlfriend (and admittedly, as she's using negative reinforcement techniques of 'you're ugly', I'd side with you on this one), your woman needs to come to this conclusion herself. The more you try to pull her away, the more she's going to rebel and feel she's being 'protected' from some sort of possible truth. If she was coddled her whole life, this drive will be strong since she's making initial throws to find who she is and will rebel against efforts to shade her from this process.
2) Her friend needs to BACK down a little as well. You're going to have to bury the hatchet with her girlfriend and express all of this with her that you don't want to control or lead your woman but instead let her grow on her own and figure things out for herself. Tell her straight up that if she gives two shits about her friend, she'll understand that she needs less guidance and direction and more time to figure things out on her own.
3) Your stance with your girlfriend needs to change to one to nurture and support her OWN feelings rather than try to direct, guide or change them. This means daily confirmation of her self-worth, daily confimation of your motives for her (i.e. her best interests, whatever she decides they may be), and strengthen basic principles that she is going to be trusted to make the right decisions all on her own, but you'll always be there if she feels the NEED for advice or guidance.
She'll either pick to be a victim or pick what's best for her. You cannot change or mold this without controlling her. If you control her, you're going to do her the injustice of personal growth and only postpone the effort to later in life. While it may buy you a longer relationship with her now, the end result will alway be the same, but with a less ability for her down the road to look at things objectively.
Good luck and I'll cybersend you some bottles of Mallox and PeptoBismo, friend. Yer gonna need em! :D
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Re: Losing respect 4 GF I love of 3 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by polecat
If ages listed are correct, you're 23 and she's 18. You two are both VERY young and these kinds of things are going to be rampant in those ages. Believe me, it's all part of the growing process.
What you have here is simply a love-triangle. It's a three way exertion of power with your girlfriend in the middle. She's being tugged by both arms, one direction from you, another direction from a female friend that has won her trust. This is a bad place for her to be, especially since the two opposing sides are dictating polar opposite mindsets and beliefs.
From everything you've expressed, it sounds like your girlfriend is naive and easily led. She stands in confusion between the two paths and is pulled back and forth and seeing friction from the both of you in regards to which way she teeters. This is tragically VERY common of young girls (young people in general, actually) since she really doesn't know who she is yet and having trouble deciding. She's going to be very vulnerable until this process happens.
The problem is- she's not being allowed to define this herself. She has you on one side telling her how things are, and a female friend telling her an opposite story of how things are. It's two different ideals being spoon fed to her and she's caught up in the middle, unable to completely dismiss one or the other. She's also unable to do this on her own since there are negative ramifications for her whichever way she goes.
What really needs to happen is a couple things:
1) You need to BACK down on her female friend a little. While you seem sure of the motives of her girlfriend (and admittedly, as she's using negative reinforcement techniques of 'you're ugly', I'd side with you on this one), your woman needs to come to this conclusion herself. The more you try to pull her away, the more she's going to rebel and feel she's being 'protected' from some sort of possible truth. If she was coddled her whole life, this drive will be strong since she's making initial throws to find who she is and will rebel against efforts to shade her from this process.
2) Her friend needs to BACK down a little as well. You're going to have to bury the hatchet with her girlfriend and express all of this with her that you don't want to control or lead your woman but instead let her grow on her own and figure things out for herself. Tell her straight up that if she gives two shits about her friend, she'll understand that she needs less guidance and direction and more time to figure things out on her own.
3) Your stance with your girlfriend needs to change to one to nurture and support her OWN feelings rather than try to direct, guide or change them. This means daily confirmation of her self-worth, daily confimation of your motives for her (i.e. her best interests, whatever she decides they may be), and strengthen basic principles that she is going to be trusted to make the right decisions all on her own, but you'll always be there if she feels the NEED for advice or guidance.
She'll either pick to be a victim or pick what's best for her. You cannot change or mold this without controlling her. If you control her, you're going to do her the injustice of personal growth and only postpone the effort to later in life. While it may buy you a longer relationship with her now, the end result will alway be the same, but with a less ability for her down the road to look at things objectively.
Good luck and I'll cybersend you some bottles of Mallox and PeptoBismo, friend. Yer gonna need em! :D
Hey thank you very much for your reply. I know I was sloppy writing my first post and my skills at writing are lacking. Need to work on that.
She’s technically 20, but has 18 on her web site.
She doesn’t trust her, but for some strange reason has still hung out with her. She called me just a bit ago and said she is not going to be hanging out with her.. But through my experience I don’t listen to what people say only what they actually ACTION on, or actually responds to LOL.
Yeah I see her somewhat valuable to influence, but in actuality she is fairly strong in herself and stronger then most I would say, but if you hang around negative people influence is a law that just works plain and simple as that, so you can use that law to your benefit by hanging with like minded people that are in congruence with your direction and be a leader at the same time, or let that law negatively affect your life.
Yes I really think you gave me some good things to think about. As she has told me before she always feels like she is having to change for me and it’s never good enough, so I definitely think you may have a point that I should really take into consideration and work in and integrate wit how I do things. I appreciate that, because I think I needed to hear that.
Yeah in fact she was upset earlier saying that I don’t love her for who she is when it came to an issue and I said you know you can’t expect me to like every little thing you do, but maybe it’s me putting way too much on defining things and telling her the way things are like you say. And I came back with how cold you like everything about me? I’m sure there are things you don’t like as I’m not perfect just like anyone else, but she came up with something to the effect it all makes up all who I ma, and I didn’t really think it made sense since I know there are things I do that upset her sometimes so how could I she like everything about her, and she couldn’t see where I was coming from.
I told her that because I love her that really I push her a bit because I want to se her best potential come out. You know that I care I want to see the best for her, but I guess I need to allow her more to do that on her own like you say.
She said that if she was to say the same and not change at all that if I would still say with her. Me envisioning with the thought things only continue in a direction of higher evolution or they get worse just imagined her doing nothing with her life sitting eating bon bons, so I think I missed the point and need to evaluate what she said there.
Thank you very much I’m truly going to think about this =, because maybe in a way I was being more controlling than I thought?
I don’t belive you can technically control anyone , but I think I know what you mean.
LOL I’m cool on the of Mallox and Pepto-Bismol : ) But thanks again you really where a big help. I think it’s important for me too see how I might affect things differently in this situation. .. Or wait maybe I mean lean back and chill.
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Re: Losing respect 4 GF I love of 3 years
Right now it sounds as though she is going to be her no matter what. She is very young, and i read what you write, seems like she is kinda hooked on this other girl.
I say sit back, enjoy guy time, do you're thing and see how fast she comes running to you. If she does not notice you being happy with "you're" time, let it rest.
I don't want to sound harsh here, but she really sounds insecure and needs to grow up alot more.
I would not hang around, why? Because people like this drag you down. Too many great people in the world to love and be loved by rather tha try to figure and fix a person.
Only she can change. You can start by letting go, and be a friend. Or be confused, and un-happy.
Pamela
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Re: Losing respect 4 GF I love of 3 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pamela
Right now it sounds as though she is going to be her no matter what. She is very young, and i read what you write, seems like she is kinda hooked on this other girl.
I say sit back, enjoy guy time, do you're thing and see how fast she comes running to you. If she does not notice you being happy with "you're" time, let it rest.
I don't want to sound harsh here, but she really sounds insecure and needs to grow up alot more.
I would not hang around, why? Because people like this drag you down. Too many great people in the world to love and be loved by rather tha try to figure and fix a person.
Only she can change. You can start by letting go, and be a friend. Or be confused, and un-happy.
Pamela
Thank you Pamela.
Yeah I’m not sure, but I think it has to do with that because she has not had allot of social experience in her life as she was home schooled. Then meet me and worked in retail for a bit before she started dancing, so I think with that maybe she just wanted to make some friends except allot of he girl sin the club aren’t really going to be her good friends as they see her as competition along with some of that cattiness that goes on in the club.
Yeah I have no problem giving her space at all. I am not the type to crowd a person as I only come around if I know I’m appreciated : ) She always enjoys spending time with me as she just called to let me know she missed me, and she’s a great girl so she’s great to spend time with.
Yeah she is insecure and really it’s one of the things that rises allot of conflict between us and I have addressed to her frequently that her insecurity really makes things difficult. I’ve really asked her to get a handle on that issue se of what it causes, but I’m not so sure she seems ready to tackle with it, and I really don’t know what I can do to help her with it as you know it’s something she definitely has to take on and know one can do for her. Just like someone could give me information on body building, but I can only benefit if I act upon it. Insecurity seems to be a big issue with allot of women just because of the dynamics in society media I think. Heh insecurity really annoys me. Although she has improved in this area it’s definitely still there.
She’s really helped me learn some things that I really appreciate, and she’s really been there for me, so I definitely want to be there for her. There is allot about her that is great as she has a clear head on her shoulders as she doesn’t drink, smoke etc ,and is not a party girl, and three is really allot about her I appreciate as she definitely shares with me as I strive to share with her.
I don’t know I think we all always need to grow up allot more as growing and learning is a never ending process, but one thing I really wish she would grow up on is really getting a handle on the insecurity bull shit. I don’t know I think insecurity is kind of hard for me to relate to. It just don’t make much sense to me.
Yeah I wouldn’t say I’m confused or unhappy, but relationships can be challenging sometimes and a bit frustrating, but I think that is just life.
Thanks for your input
Sincerely
Mystery
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Re: Losing respect 4 GF I love of 3 years
You might mention to her that she should ask her hosting services to disable the ability to view the index of files within folders....such as the images folder. Lotta nice pics in there, but I doubt she wants them all completely available.
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Re: Losing respect 4 GF I love of 3 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mystery
Yeah I’m not sure, but I think it has to do with that because she has not had allot of social experience in her life as she was home schooled.
I have to chime in on this one. My wife and I have home schooled our three daughters from the beginning. It is a fallacy to think that children learn better social skills in public classrooms. Think for a minute...what situation in "real life" are you ever in, in which you only interact with people exactly the same age? I've known a lot of home schooled children, seen many grow into adulthood and in my experience they are generally more mature and have better social skills. Instead of spending hours per day with "peers", home schooled children grow up interacting with people of different ages. If you were trying to train a puppy, do you think it would be easier if it's in a pen with 30 other puppies?
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Re: Losing respect 4 GF I love of 3 years
The issue of social maturity comes into play with homeschooled children who are never around other children. The home schooling itself is not the culprit. If the children are never allowed to play with people outside the home...THEN they will have issues with social interaction. That is the parents' choice.
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Re: Losing respect 4 GF I love of 3 years
Thanks for those thoughts ... yeah I think in her case she was fairly sheltered.. although attended dance classes so not completely.