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Lots of new and convert followers of Islam in US
" American values are, by and large, very consistent with Islamic values, with a focus on family, faith, hard work, and an obligation to better self and society."
http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/muslimlife/
I continue to find that Americans by and large have little, no or major misunderstanding about people of Muslim faith; maybe with the religion being one of, if not the fastest growing religion in the US things will change....for the better,I hope.
The above link and the information there is a good place to start(imo) for those who think for example or fear that Muslim persons in general are out to kill them, support or have been silent about terror attacks ect, ect.
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Re: Lots of new and convert followers of Islam in US
HK: The American values you support are absolutely nothing like Muslim values. Do you even have the slightest idea what life for women is like in most muslim countries? What about gays?
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Re: Lots of new and convert followers of Islam in US
Actually, my grandfather would be all for an expansion of Muslim values in the USA. He'd be very comfortable with the idea that a woman is the 'property' of her man. He'd be happy about forcing girls to wear 'modest' clothing. He'd be very happy about corporal punishment, stonings etc. instead of plea bargains, probation and parole. He'd be happiest of all about being able to carry a pistol without a pesky permit, or going hunting with an assault weapon.
Be careful what you wish for, because American Muslims sound pretty likely to vote Republican !
Destiny, do you happen to know what the Sharia judgement for gay males is ?
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Re: Lots of new and convert followers of Islam in US
Destiny ~ that is a quote from the page I linked to.... not my words. Had you read the link prior to commenting on it you would know that.
I am very, very familar with Muslim culture,. I have Muslim friends and grew up with Muslim neighbors...... which is why I know that not all or even most Muslims are the way you are apparently choosing to seeing them. You (as well as Melonie and a few others~ I don't want you to feel singled out here) appear to see only the minority of the culture, by choice it would seem.I am not going to argue with you about this, however.
I hope you will take a look at the link and I also hope that someday your ideas about Muslims people will change, for the better. But that is entirely up to you .
I do wonder if you personaly know any Muslim people or have ever sat down and broke bread with a Muslim family....I'm guessing not because I don't usualy encounter the attitude you project when a person actually knows people who are followers of Islam.
Take a look at the link, maybe try talking to some Muslim people.... I think you will begin to see a different picture of the culture, that is if you have the desire to see more than just one small section of the culture. It is your choice though.... you can choose to see the good as well as the bad or just the bad, it's up to you !
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Re: Lots of new and convert followers of Islam in US
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I do wonder if you personaly know any Muslim people or have ever sat down and broke bread with a Muslim family....I'm guessing not because I don't usualy encounter the attitude you project when a person actually knows people who are followers of Islam.
Very presumptive of you ~ One simply can't live and work in North Jersey without interacting with Muslims on a daily basis. Most of the young muslim girls I ran across were more or less forced to lead 'dual lives' inside vs. outside of their neighborhood.
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Re: Lots of new and convert followers of Islam in US
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The American values you support are absolutely nothing like Muslim values. Do you even have the slightest idea what life for women is like in most muslim countries? What about gays?
I hear Islamists just love them some strippas too!
:)
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Re: Lots of new and convert followers of Islam in US
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Re: Lots of new and convert followers of Islam in US
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Originally Posted by Melonie
...He'd be very comfortable with the idea that a woman is the 'property' of her man.
Can you quote me the verse of the Muslim holy book that states that woman is the property of her man? You can not, because it does not exist. Islamic theology is based on two primary sources the holy book, the Qur'an and a collection of sayings of Islam's Prophet Muhammad. There are a variety of methodologies used to derive jurisprudence and so there are amongst the world's nearly 2 billion Muslims a variety of interpretations and practices heavily influenced by their own cultures and experiences. Islamic life for women in China differs greatly than women in Saudi Arabia which differs greatly from Iranian women and so on and so forth. If you know anything about many of the cultures practicing the most misogynist practices in the Muslim world, you would also note that these things predated Islam and were often explicitely condemned by the Prophet and made forbidden. A most recent example is that Muhammad made it forbidden to for young people to be married off against their will. He explicitely stated that a girl's permission must be obtained before she could be married. Now, over 1400 years later Saudi Arabia, a state that claims to be run based on Islamic law, has just within the last month or so made it a crime to force a girl into marriage.
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Originally Posted by Melonie
Be careful what you wish for, because American Muslims sound pretty likely to vote Republican !
Actually, with the exception of a sizable population of wealthy South Asians, most Muslims are pretty far to the left. This is especially true of the convert population. You are assuming that the dynamics of Muslim Americans mimic those of the middle east, but just shy of a majority of Muslim in America are native to this country.
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Originally Posted by Melonie
Destiny, do you happen to know what the Sharia judgement for gay males is ?
There is no shari'a judgement for gay males. There is, however, a judgement for men or women who engage in sex acts publically. Any sex act that is illegal according to Islamic law must be viewed by four sane adult witnessess or the accused can not be tried. What's on the books and what actually happens may be two different things, but let's not get Islamic jurisprudence mixed up with what happens in many Muslim countries. Not all Muslim countries adhere to "islamic law" and those who do vary in their interpretation and application. We only need to look at our own judicial system to see how easily things can be twisted to serve certain interests. Congressional interferance in the Terri Schiavo case, anyone?
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Re: Lots of new and convert followers of Islam in US
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Originally Posted by Melonie
Very presumptive of you ~ One simply can't live and work in North Jersey without interacting with Muslims on a daily basis. Most of the young muslim girls I ran across were more or less forced to lead 'dual lives' inside vs. outside of their neighborhood.
Well actually Melonie I wasn't referring to you specificaly in that particular question..... but since you responded I'll ask the following :
Do you actually know any Muslim people ? I am not refering to seeing some here and there around town either. I mean do you have any Muslim friends ? Have you ever been inside a Muslim families home ? Have you ever been to a mosque or any other Muslim religious gathering such as a wedding for example ?
And this last question is a bit off topic I guess, but since we are discussing how a particular race/religion is viewed, well I suppose this is as good a time as any..... at a discussion group I attend at school (I have been taking in copies of posts from here in Poo with names blocked out for SW members privacy, ofcourse) I was asked if You are a white supremacist..... and rather than just assume one way or another, I figured it would be better to let you answer for yourself.
I do hope you don't take offense as the question (if you are not a white supremacist) as it isn't intended that way , we (the discussion group) just thought knowing the answer to said question would help in understanding a bit more about where your opinions originate .
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Re: Lots of new and convert followers of Islam in US
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Originally Posted by Hello~Kitty
Destiny ~ that is a quote from the page I linked to.... not my words. Had you read the link prior to commenting on it you would know that.
I did follow the link you provided.
However, you still have not answered my question. I did not ask if you were familar with Muslim culture as it exists in the United States. I asked if you have any idea what life for women is like in countries with a muslim majority. I also find it rather strange that you berate Melonie about being anti-gay (she's not) yet defend a religion that prescribes capital punishment for homosexuality.
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Re: Lots of new and convert followers of Islam in US
whoa !
Destiny ~ I did not berate ANYONE.As a matter of fact here is my exacy reply to her :
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Originally Posted by Hello~Kitty
Gay people are all fanatics ???? I'm going to leave that part alone :-X Readers can see that for what is anyway...... Instead I'll just say I strongly disagree with the above quoted comments.
I chose to use that smiley rather than to add alot of comment on her opinions about gays. I do however disagree with your statement that she is not anti-gay. I have read most of this section and it does appears to me that she is in fact very anti-gay, however that is her right if she chooses to be that way...... BUT that subject is really neither here nor there for the purpose of this discussion.
And I if am defending against anything it is stereotyping of the religion and those who choose it as their faith.
Now that I have made my intentions clear on those points.... I will answer your question. The answer is YES I extreemly well versed in what life for women is like in various countries with a muslim majority.
I questioned if you had read the link because of how you responded to the quote I listed from that link. If I misunderstood your meaning then I apologize.
In closing, I would just like to encourage you to read reply #8 in this thread( if you have not already) as it is very informative on the subject of the various non US Muslim populations.
:peace:
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Re: Lots of new and convert followers of Islam in US
^ The most muslim populated country in the world is Indonesia, not a country in the middle east. It is Indonesia. And they do not practice Shari'ah law in Indonesia. The women there are treated probably in the same manner and as equally as women in the rest of the world are treated.
It is important as Incognita said it is important to look at these countries as seperate because each country has a different view and treatment of women. Why? Because they all have a different pre-Islam history and culture.
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Re: Lots of new and convert followers of Islam in US
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Originally Posted by Hello~Kitty
And I if am defending against anything it is stereotyping of the religion and those who choose it as their faith.
I have no problem with people choosing whatever religion they want. I also have no problem pointing out evil when I see it. To condemn a man or women to death because of their sexual preference is wrong. Do you agree?
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Now that I have made my intentions clear on those points.... I will answer your question. The answer is YES I extreemly well versed in what life for women is like in various countries with a muslim majority.
Great, lets pick one shall we? Iran. Do you agree with the way Iran treats women? Is it right or wrong to force women to wear a veil and to prohibit them from many opportunities?
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Re: Lots of new and convert followers of Islam in US
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Originally Posted by Destiny
To condemn a man or women to death because of their sexual preference is wrong. Do you agree?
Yes, I agree. However as it has already been pointed out
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Originally Posted by Incognita
There is no shari'a judgement for gay males. There is, however, a judgement for men or women who engage in sex acts publically. Any sex act that is illegal according to Islamic law must be viewed by four sane adult witnessess or the accused can not be tried.
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Originally Posted by Destiny
Great, lets pick one shall we? Iran. Do you agree with the way Iran treats women? Is it right or wrong to force women to wear a veil and to prohibit them from many opportunities?
Well first of all you need to understand that not all of the women are being forced, some actually choose/prefer to wear the veil or a version of it. But for those who do not wish to wear it, no I do not agree with "forcing" them to do so.....
I found some info for you on this subject. I picked this link particularly because it includes a quote from an Iranian school girl. Her explanation is pretty much what my Muslim female friends have also expressed. There is also some history in this link. It also points out that there are variations of the viel( depending on local custom and/or personal preference) some more extreem than others.
Here is an excerpt :
An Iranian school girl is quoted as saying, "We want to stop men from treating us like sex objects, as they have always done. We want them to ignore our appearance and to be attentive to our personalities and mind. We want them to take us seriously and treat us as equals and not just chase us around for our bodies and physical looks."
A Muslim woman who covers her head is making a statement about her identity. Anyone who sees her will know that she is a Muslim and has a good moral character. Many Muslim women who cover are filled with dignity and self esteem; they are pleased to be identified as a Muslim woman. As a chaste, modest, pure woman, she does not want her sexuality to enter into interactions with men in the smallest degree. A woman who covers herself is concealing her sexuality but allowing her femininity to be brought out.
http://www.jannah.org/sisters/hijab2.html
And here is another page and excerpt from that site titled "Liberation by the Veil"
Contrary to popular belief, the covering of the Muslim woman is not oppression but a liberation from the shackles of male scrutiny and the standards of attractiveness. In Islam, a woman is free to be who she is inside, and immuned from being portrayed as sex symbol and lusted after. Islam exalts the status of a woman by commanding that she "enjoys equal rights to those of man in everything, she stands on an equal footing with man " (Nadvi, 11) and both share mutual rights and obligations in all aspects of life.
http://www.jannah.org/sisters/hijbene.html
The very fact that you are unaware that many Muslim women CHOOSE to cover themselves is exactly what I was talking about when I said that I continue to find that the majority of Americans do not know much of anything beyond propoganda about this religion.
Remember knowledge is power so I hope you continue to learn more truths about the Muslim faith and listen less to the ultra rightwing propoganda.
Gotta get to sleep now though since I have an exam in the morning ....so have a good night ! I'll probably be offline for a few days( school/work/life...LOL) but will check back to see how this thread is doing when I return.
Take care :peace:
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Re: Lots of new and convert followers of Islam in US
here we go again ...
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Do you actually know any Muslim people ? I am not refering to seeing some here and there around town either. I mean do you have any Muslim friends ? Have you ever been inside a Muslim families home ?
Actually, for a while I rented an upstairs apartment from a Muslim family (therefore lived in a predominantly Muslim neighborhood) in north jersey several years ago. This was well in advance of 9/11 too, so that any 'animosities' which then existed were independent of the 9/11 factor. I was more or less treated as a 'bad example' by the older people in that neighborhood. I was treated as a 'sex object' by younger guys in that neighborhood. I did wind up being a 'confidant' to a few younger girls in that neighborhood.
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I do however disagree with your statement that she is not anti-gay. I have read most of this section and it does appears to me that she is in fact very anti-gay, however that is her right if she chooses to be that way...... BUT that subject is really neither here nor there for the purpose of this discussion.
Just because I refuse to be 'politically correct' regarding gays does not mean that I'm anti-gay. Actually, I seem to attract lots of gay friends (I'm told that it has something to do with my boyish ass, but that's a whole 'nuther story). My objections to activist gay politics are purely political and economic and definitely not based on any personal moralistic judgement about the gay lifestyle as you presume.
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at a discussion group I attend at school (I have been taking in copies of posts from here in Poo with names blocked out for SW members privacy, ofcourse) I was asked if You are a white supremacist..... and rather than just assume one way or another, I figured it would be better to let you answer for yourself.
Well, that certainly explains a lot in regard to your extremely freewheeling assumptions !!!
Yes I do take a measure of offense in regard to being accused of white supremacy. However I still refuse to buy into the 'political correctness' of racial politics (i.e. policies which favor one particular race/minority group but not another i.e. the Asians in College thread) and the 'business' of poverty pandering. If you must try to 'pidgeon-hole' me, you might think in terms of 'white equalitist'. Actually, politically speaking, 'libertarian' probably best describes my position.
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Re: Lots of new and convert followers of Islam in US
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Originally Posted by Destiny
Great, lets pick one shall we? Iran. Do you agree with the way Iran treats women? Is it right or wrong to force women to wear a veil and to prohibit them from many opportunities?
I also agree that forced veiling is wrong. And, as M. pointed out many women veil because they chose. Did you know that the Shah had forced women to unveil and that in many Muslim countries women who veil are discriminated against and prevented from working in government institutions or even attending public universities, Turkey immediately comes to mind. In fact, in Turkey a woman who was democractically elected to the Turkish parliament was kicked off of the parliament floor because she refused to remove her headscarf, something she wore because she believed it to be religiously mandated. There is a direct example of extremist secularism interfering with not only the right to freedom of religion, but also democracy. Imagine Joseph Liebermann being kicked off the senate floor because of his kippah (Yarmulke)! If we are to stand for freedom then we have to condemn oppression WHERVER it may be and WHOEVER is perpetrating it. Otherwise it's just prejudice and propoganda.
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Re: Lots of new and convert followers of Islam in US
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Originally Posted by Hello~Kitty
Well first of all you need to understand that not all of the women are being forced, some actually choose/prefer to wear the veil or a version of it. But for those who do not wish to wear it, no I do not agree with "forcing" them to do so.....
When the civil war ended, some slaves chose to remain on the plantations, does that justify slavery?
You know when Melonie started this thread, I thought perhaps the book she mentioned was a little over the top. Here's the blurb from Amazon:
Though strange bedfellows, America's liberals and radical Muslims stand on suspiciously similar ground in refusing to condemn Islamis terrorism, in criticizing America and the West, and in opposing efforts to export captialism and democracy. As a former Leftist radical, Horowitz is perfectly placed to diagnose, and denounce the hypocrisy and danger of the American Left.
Now, I can see that Mr. Horowitz is right on the mark. Surely you must realize that with every post in this thread you are validated the argument put forth in his book?
Okay, you want to quote iranian women? Here ya' go:
September, 7, 2002
Dear Diary,
It has been a crazy few days with work...Two years after Khomeini came to power; he brought about a dress code law, which stated that women could not go outside without the Islamic hijab. Even girls as young as six or seven years old had to wear the hijab when going to school, even though the schools were sex segregated! Women who refused to wear the hijab or those whose scarf was a little loose were punished severely. For example in 1991 the Prosecutor-General, Abolfazl Musavi Tabrizi said, “ anyone who rejects the principle of hijab in Iran is an apostate and the punishment for an apostate under Islamic law is death” (www.homa.org). The Islamic Republic guards as well as women they had hired referred to as “sisters” would cruise the streets in search of women who were not wearing the proper hijab. These women were whipped in public, had their hands put in buckets of spiders or bugs or had their hijab pinned to their foreheads.
I consider hijab one of the lesser oppressions against women in Iran. What they did with education and work was much more degrading and it caused not only human rights oppressions against us, but also great economic oppression. This meant that it became harder and harder for women to earn a living and therefore they had to be more and more dependent on their husbands. It was Ayatollah Mutahari one of the principal ideologues of the Islamic Republic of Iran who said, “The specific task of women in this society is to marry and bear children. They will be discouraged from entering legislative, judicial or what ever careers which may require decision making, as women lack the intellectual ability and discerning judgment required for these careers.” (www.homa.org). Women were not only discouraged from entering these professions; but it was made illegal for women to become judges or lawyers. These women could only be legal advisors. It is only in the past 4 years where women could practice as lawyers, (only in family law courts) and could also be legal advisors to a male judge in a family court.
I never thought I would find American women defending the Ayatollahs of Iran for their enslavement of women. Have people become so obsessed with always being "open minded" and "non-judgmental" that we cannot tell right from wrong? When did being "open minded" come to mean blinded to the truth? Have people become so afraid of the PC Police that they are unwilling to call evil, evil? I'm sure your Muslims friends are very nice people. That doesn't change the fact that they are adherents to a religion that prescribes the death penalty for homosexuals, promotes the demonization of non-believers, and enslaves people because of their gender. And it is not wrong to point that out!
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Re: Lots of new and convert followers of Islam in US
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Originally Posted by Destiny
When the civil war ended, some slaves chose to remain on the plantations, does that justify slavery?
I never thought I would find American women defending the Ayatollahs of Iran for their enslavement of women.
It's interesting that you accuse Islam of promoting the demonization of non-believers while you demonize believers. Are orthodox Jewish women also oppressed by their tichels and modest dress?
Women in Iran are not enslaved. There are plenty of facts to support your case if you want to say that Iranian women have a long way to go in terms of achieving their full rights, if all you have is hyperbole then you have nothing at all. Have you read anything about the state of Iranian women outside of extremist propoganda? Also, your demeaning of women who choose to veil is extremely arrogant. In fact, it's just the reverse of same propoganda from so many Muslim countries that claims all American women are whores who are 'enslaved' to men's sexual whims by our culture's uberemphasis on women as sex objects.
So your way is better because it is your way? Women should be free to veil or NOT to w/o the condemnation and judgement of extremists on either side. Feminism is about choice, not cultural imperialism. In the words of Sujounour Truth, Ain't I a Woman? Are Muslim women less worthy of choosing how they want to live their faith? Are they somehow incapable of coming up with intelligent decisions that disagree with how *you* think they should live? Did you take a look at the links Muyaha posted? These women are articulate, intelligent and devout. To compare them to slaves is nothing short of your own prejudice, perhaps even racism.
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Re: Lots of new and convert followers of Islam in US
Um I don't think I posted any links.... but god knows I could, but I don't want everyone to die of boredom from reading.
Incognita... didn't the universities in Turkey require women to be unveiled also, which sparked student protests. Turkey is another country with a very interesting past especially since the 20th century.
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Re: Lots of new and convert followers of Islam in US
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Originally Posted by Muyaha
Um I don't think I posted any links.... but god knows I could, but I don't want everyone to die of boredom from reading.
Incognita... didn't the universities in Turkey require women to be unveiled also, which sparked student protests. Turkey is another country with a very interesting past especially since the 20th century.
I meant the ones from jana.org. There are many others that are good out there though. Yes, you are right about Turkish women and public unversities. I believe Algeria or another N. African nation has done the same.
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Re: Lots of new and convert followers of Islam in US
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Originally Posted by Incognita
Women in Iran are not enslaved.
You can't be serious. I'm going to assume that you are just saying stuff like this to antagonize me. What's next, are you going to tell me that Hitler shipped the Jews off to concentration camps for their own good? That some Jews wanted to go? Who am I to say that it was wrong?
I'm sorry, but in order for there to be meaniful debate, two sides have to accept at least some things as a given. If you are so blind to facts as to truly make a statement like that, there's no point.
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Re: Lots of new and convert followers of Islam in US
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Originally Posted by Destiny
I'm sorry, but in order for there to be meaniful debate, two sides have to accept at least some things as a given. If you are so blind to facts as to truly make a statement like that, there's no point.
Indeed. And the fact is that there ALOT of Muslim women WORLWIDE who CHOOSE and PREFER to be veiled.
Yes there are also some that are forced as well. Those are the FACTS.
I have sat here and watched you refuse to accept that fact as well as that there is no actual shari'a judgement for gay person either.
You seem quite comfortable in your prejudice of an entire religion and those who CHOOSE it as their faith and I don't think anything that anyone points out is going to change that..... you have basicaly called all the followers of said religion evil in more than post in this section as well, all without apparently having even the basic knowledge of what or why they believe as they do.
These appear to be your opinions, which you are ofcourse entitled to have and express.... they do however leave those of us with actual knowledge (above and beyond propganda) of the Muslim faith and the billions of it's followers shaking our heads in dismay.
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Surely you must realize that with every post in this thread you are validated the argument put forth in his book?
Sorry, but that is 100,000,000% FALSE.
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Re: Lots of new and convert followers of Islam in US
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Originally Posted by Hello~Kitty
Indeed. And the fact is that there ALOT of Muslim women WORLWIDE who CHOOSE and PREFER to be veiled.
Yes there are also some that are forced as well. Those are the FACTS.
Facts? A couple of quotes from an Islamic website makes it a "fact"? Where's the nation-wide poll of women's opinions from women in Iran? Syria? Saudi Arabia? Those would be facts. Do you really think the Islamic men running these countries would ever allow an accurate, anonymous poll of what the women think? Do you really think they even care? A quote does not become a "fact" simply because it conforms to your ideology.
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I have sat here and watched you refuse to accept that fact as well as that there is no actual shari'a judgement for gay person either.
"Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!" (26:165-166). "Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant!" (27:55).
"For ye practise your lusts on men in preference to women : ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds." (7:81). "And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): Then see what was the end of those who indulged in sin and crime!""He said: "O my Lord! help Thou me against people who do mischief!"" (29:30). (7:84).
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You seem quite comfortable in your discrimination and prejudice of an entire religion and those who CHOOSE it as their faith and I don't think anything that anyone points out is going to change that..... you have called the followers of said religion evil. Called those of us who see both the good and bad in the culture evil as well.
Yes, I must confess, I think it's evil to publicly whip a women because she fails to conform to a prescribed religious dogma. Do you?
I also think its evil to deny people the right to pursue certain careers because of their gender. Do you?
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Re: Lots of new and convert followers of Islam in US
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Facts? A couple of quotes from an Islamic website makes it a "fact"?
Sigh... the links are examples.Sorry but it is a FACT that many (not all) Muslim women CHOOSE and prefer to be veiled. My examples and personal experience PROVE that.... can you prove that ZERO Muslim women choose or prefer a veil. No, you can't because it's just isn't so.
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A quote does not become a "fact" simply because it conforms to your ideology
I guess that doesn't apply to you :shrug: Btw it is not an ideolgy for me to understand that there is BOTH good and bad in the Muslim culture. It's called REALITY. Try it, you might it ;)
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I think it's evil to publicly whip a women because she fails to conform to a prescribed religious dogma. Do you?
Yes I do think it is wrong, but I also realize that doesn't always occur in every Muslim community or even most. That FACT seems to have escaped you. Maybe it is because you choose to see NOTHING AT ALL about the Muslim faith but anti-Muslim propoganda ???
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I also think its evil to deny people the right to pursue certain careers because of their gender. Do you?
Yes again I think it is wrong, but like pretty much everything else you have mentioned, that does not occur in every Muslim community nor is that exclusive to ONLY the Muslim faith. That occurs in other religions and other cultures as well including right here in the US.
It has become crystal clear that you will not (ever?) accept that there are variations of things in the Muslim world. It seems that the only acceptable point of view for you is the extreem version that anti Muslim propganda expresses. And that is sad because it isn't like that everywhere or even in the majority of the Muslim world.
Is it like that in some places, yes ... no one here has ever denied that. We are simply pointing out that it is WRONG to judge billions of people by the most extreem. And that is EXACTLY what you doing.
I hope you open your eyes and mind someday in regards to this issue. But no one can make you do so. If you want to continue to find the billions of people you obviously know little to nothing about evil, enslaved etc you will .... nothing anyone here says or does will change that.
But if you want to see and understand the complete picture (including both the good and the bad) you will also do that...it is your choice. Right now you seem to prefer the former.
Ce la vie
:peace:
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Re: Lots of new and convert followers of Islam in US
Not to change the topic here,i could just use a bit of clarifacation on this subject.
How many of the new islamics in america that have changed faiths are criminals in jail or ex felons who found islam in jail???
I dont mean this as an insult to any islamic,its just a question.I have no problem with the religion other then the wording of the Quran where it pertains to me and mine.
I would just wonder how many new islamics are converted and what thier racial breakdown would be and some guess as to what % are converted as a result of time behind bars.