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Unruly Children - Unruly Parents
Presumably you've all heard the recent story of the 5 year old girl that was cuffed 'n stuffed after misbehaving at school. Naturally, it's gained a lot of attention. I withheld judgement until hearing certain statements this morning on the Today Show.
In case you missed it:
"YOUNG GIRL HANDCUFFED
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...334779,00.html
Police officers in the United States are facing legal action after they handcuffed a 5-year-old girl.
They were called to a school in St Petersburg, Florida, after the girl misbehaved in a kindergarten class.
Teachers were unable to calm the girl down after she threw a violent tantrum.
The incident was caught on a video camera which was in the classroom as part of a self-improvement exercise.
It shows the tantrum starting when the girl refused to take part in a maths lesson.
She can be seen ripping papers off a bulletin board and punching whoever tries to calm her down.
The child's mother was contacted but was unable to pick up the girl for at least an hour - so teachers called in the police.
Three officers rushed to the scene, handcuffing the screaming girl by pinning her arms behind her back.
They then drove her to her mother in the back of a police car.
A lawyer for the girl's mother has threatened to sue, describing the episode as "incomprehensible". "
SO....opinions, here! First, I'll give you mine...because that's what I do!
For a half hour, the school personnel attempted to calm the child, who continued to rip things off of walls, take swings at the adults, and eventually stand on top of a table. The school's Asst. Principal attempted to contact the mother, according to today's story. She was unavailable to get the child. Their options at that point would be
(A) physically restrain the child (lawsuit) -
(2) Allow the child to continue climbing on top of the table (child falls - lawsuit) -
(last one I can think of) Contact the police because the parent is unavailable and is clearly posing a threat to herself.
The cops, at that point, must follow their own protocol.
In the end...I say it was all handled fairly well and it annoys me that no one is discussing what the child's role in this was, nor does the parent seem to be acknowledging that her child was acting like a little shit and needs to have her ass smacked a few times.
OPINIONS??
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Re: Unruly Children - Unruly Parents
Thanks for the link, Mo.
Wow, That's interesting. But, I agree with what they did. They did everything they could to calm the child down before hand. The mother couldn't pick up the child for an hour. Anything could have happened in that hour if the police hadn't have done what they did.
I remember one story in Florida where a teacher used duct tape to 'quiet' the child down. Now that was a bit much. :O
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Re: Unruly Children - Unruly Parents
Christ kids today. If it was back in the day when I was young, oh boy that kid would've gotten a whoopin.
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Re: Unruly Children - Unruly Parents
I'm a proud Mommy who's definitely ALL about kids, as everyone knows...
***BUT***
I agree with what they did. Sorry, but they had exhausted every other effort at resolving the situation. It's not like they tazered her, like they did to that little boy months back. They restrained her by putting her in cuffs. Big deal. I would've made her sit in the backseat of the police car for a while before driving her to her mother, for good measure.
The Mother was contacted beforehand, in an attempt for her to go pick her child up because she was out of control. She didn't. So in my opinion, the school must take whatever measures they can to rectify the situation. She punched people who tried to make her stop, including a principal (I think?). So, in order to protect the other children, and whoever else the kid came into contact with, they were in the right to contact the police, who cuffed her.
They're making such a big deal about the girl saying "No!" when she was cuffed. Big deal! Of course she didn't want to be restrained. I don't have sympathy for her, or the Mother who ignored the school's request to pick the kid up.
They were in the right. I'm glad they got it all on video. The lawsuit will not go anywhere with that kind of evidence.
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Re: Unruly Children - Unruly Parents
At least it got the little brat's attention. And her Mommy's.
Medically, and maybe legally to an extent, one can look at a violent tantrum in a kid as analogous to an epileptic or other seizure. So restraint is not so far off the mark.
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Re: Unruly Children - Unruly Parents
I thought you weren't supposed to restrain somebody who was having a seizure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by threlayer
Medically, and maybe legally to an extent, one can look at a violent tantrum in a kid as analogous to an epileptic or other seizure. So restraint is not so far off the mark.
HOnestly it sounds to me like this child has some sort of behavioral disorder.
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Re: Unruly Children - Unruly Parents
ahh that poor child ...thanx for the link mojo
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Re: Unruly Children - Unruly Parents
I think they did what they had to do with what they had available at the time. But I suggest that the teachers be equipped with better behavioral tools to handle children like this. who knows? Maybe after this the child will be placed in a school or a class for children with behavioral problems.
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Re: Unruly Children - Unruly Parents
It seems to me that those who are appalled by what the police did either feels that:
A) nothing should have been done to restrain the child. She should have been allowed to continue until she played herself out.
B) Some other form of method of coaxing her out of her tantrum and or calming her down should have been used.
I find both opinions to be appalling.
Anyone who thinks that a child in such a state should not be restrained at some point has entirely misplaced their care about the child. Ignore ther fact that she damaged things (which are just things, in the grand scheme of it all) and or she greatly disrupted the class etc. She really could have hurt herself, possibly traumatically. Ending her tantrum after it is obvious that she is unable to control herself truly falls under the guise of protecting her.
That brings to the second point. If the MOTHER could not end the tantrum, then I fail to see how anyone could think that some other form would suddenly work. Her not being there severely limited their options. After an amount of time you can't bank on something new magically working, because the danger the child poses to herself increases. You can't take that risk.
I am of the opinion that the police just didnt rush in there without knowing what was going on and cuffed a 5 year old (and let no one mistake that it is a 5 year old - she cannot be held responsible for her actions). It seemed like a judgement call that had to be made and wasn't made in a snap decision.
The child's saftey was and should have been paramount. Everything else was irrelevent. The police's actions prevented any further possibilit that the kid could hurt herself. I'd say given the circumstances thats a wholly acceptable outcome.
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Re: Unruly Children - Unruly Parents
I think the school staff did very well - although I think maybe putting her in the bathroom where she couldn't destroy anything (maybe toilet paper) with one person until the cops or mom got there would have prevented damage to the classroom/office - but the cops went over the line.
If you watch the video, you can see Rosemary's Baby Re-Incarnate is terrified and is sitting down when the cops come in to handcuff her. The mere presence of the cops (one of which she apparently had met before) scared her enough to sit down and shut up. The handcuffs were definitely overkill. They could have escorted her to a cop car and made her sit there until her mom got there. But handcuffs on a 5-year old is too much. That part of the video alone will secure a win if mom decides to sue AND the lawyer can show any psychological, emotional, or physical damage resulting from the incident.
From watching the video, I think something has happened to that little girl and she was without a doubt acting out of anger. When she first starts out, it seems like she's just being bratty, but as it escalates, it seems like she's truly acting out against something that's been done to her.
Mom and homelife should be investigated as well.
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Re: Unruly Children - Unruly Parents
One of my children is in Kindergarden. Theres another child in his class who behavior mimics the little girl in the story. I know for a fact in the past they have had to restrain this child with the main teacher, nurse, principal, and school psychologist present, then bring him to an empty room. Now the difference (and it's not clear in this story) is that the child in my son's class went from having a tantrum to destroying the room to physically hurting the other children.
So my point, physically restrain the child if the child is physically hurting themselves or other students is okay in my book. But physically restraining a child because they are on the floor crying, I think is a little much.
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Re: Unruly Children - Unruly Parents
Since police were going to transport her, they had to use some sort of restraint. It's the law. Further, it protects the kid if she were to get violent again. But I don't see the purpose of taking the kid to her mother. Maybe that is where the problem is. Maybe should have been taken to a psych-capable clinic. Overall I think it was successful. No one was hurt.
Except the school could not handle it and they felt encumbered by legal paranoia. (For example the kid could have punctured some other kids head with a pencil point.) Not that schools should be required to be prepared for every psychotic flip-out that comes along. But I think that parents should know what to expect when something very unusual and threatening might happen. So some plans should be put in place.
(Hey, it's a crazy age we live in. And it's getting crazier as parents become more permissive and less and less competent with every generation.)
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Re: Unruly Children - Unruly Parents
Parents that have no handle on their children wonder why stuff like this happens.It's because you're a dumb*ss parent.Grow some balls and discipline your rugrats.
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Re: Unruly Children - Unruly Parents
I hate children and I think this is hilarious. The sprog deserved it. Fleshloaves, ick.
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Re: Unruly Children - Unruly Parents
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilithmorrigan
I hate children and I think this is hilarious. The sprog deserved it. Fleshloaves, ick.
LMFAO,I LOVE IT!!!!!
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Re: Unruly Children - Unruly Parents
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlythebest
Parents that have no handle on their children wonder why stuff like this happens.It's because you're a dumb*ss parent.Grow some balls and discipline your rugrats.
Word, Homie. Some parents pay absolutely no attention to their kids and then don't have a freaking clue why the children have behavioral problems. I've said it before, and I'll say it again.. Licensing AND Testing should be MANDATORY for everyone before they're allowed to breed. If the mother cared so much, she would've been there when she was first called to be.
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yeah, I'm curious what prevented the mom from showing up for a whole hour???
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Re: Unruly Children - Unruly Parents
Heh.. Probably like most of them, Sapph.. "I'm too busy. yadda yadda yadda". Someone should sue the parents for stupidity if anything.
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Re: Unruly Children - Unruly Parents
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhiannon
Word, Homie. Some parents pay absolutely no attention to their kids and then don't have a freaking clue why the children have behavioral problems. I've said it before, and I'll say it again.. Licensing AND Testing should be MANDATORY for everyone before they're allowed to breed. If the mother cared so much, she would've been there when she was first called to be.
I think the growth of the US population would become a dead stand still if this became mandatory.Too many people would flunk the test,LOL!!!
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Re: Unruly Children - Unruly Parents
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhiannon
Heh.. Probably like most of them, Sapph.. "I'm too busy. yadda yadda yadda". Someone should sue the parents for stupidity if anything.
There was once a woman that wa sued for mistreating her children... the judge ordered her a mandatory hysterectomy for being a stupid mother and 'not being allowed to breed anymore'.
It was fricken hilarious.
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Re: Unruly Children - Unruly Parents
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveSexMoney
yeah, I'm curious what prevented the mom from showing up for a whole hour???
We don't know what that woman's story is, but maybe she's a single parent working in an environment that's not as accomodating to single moms and COULDN'T get there for another hour without losing her job, IOW her means of providing for this crazy child? Or she didn't have a car and had to catch the bus?
Besides, this girl is only 5-years old. I've seen kids do worse and were able to be subdued without resorting to handcuffs. I understand why the school called the police (current laws tie their hands when dealing with out of control kids), but three officers to handcuff a 40 lb kid who had settled down once she saw them? Way over the top there.
I read that the mom is in fact suing, and she'll more than likely win $$$, but the child still loses. Her home life needs to be investigated and she is probably traumatized for life. Apparently this is the third time she's acted out and SOMEONE should have taken measures to understand why she's out of control. She could certainly use some Psychological help.
Now, I don't particularly like kids (most are disrespectful and run around with snotty noses and dirty hands) - except my angelic niece :angel: - but there's a difference between a 5 yo acting out and a 12 year old. That little girl was a demon, but there are better ways to handle her than to resort to handcuffing her.
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it probl just pissed her off even more !
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I think its disgusting. And here's why I dont agree with how they handled it:
I've lived with socially/behaviourally disabled kids. I've been one. I can say that 8 out of 10 times, restraining a child that young makes matters worse. It can and often will damage said child emotionally, long term. If a professional that is in a field that deals with children cannot handle them, in almost all circumstances, IE: tantrums and hitting, they shouldnt do that job. End of story. There is no need to handcuff someone who is about a fourth (if not smaller) the size of you. If you cannot restrain a child of that age in such a way that is more suited for their size, strength, and psychological state, get a different job. Handcuffing someone that young is horrid. I've seen 4 year olds restrained using techniques and strength that is only to be used on teenagers and some adults. It horrifies me. These kids CAN be calmed down in other ways, but I doubt the police/news would relay that.... If this child is so psychologically damaged that they cannot interact in a normal school environment, with staff that can handle standard situations, it's time to relocate to a residential. They usually (not always) know how to better handle a child in that age group who acts out violently.
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Re: Unruly Children - Unruly Parents
I don't think they way it was handled will help the girl out but there are some kids that for whatever reason can't be reasoned with.
I'd think the girl needs special attention which she probably will not get. The brain is the one organ which a lot of people for whatever reason fail to see things can go wrong with. If someone isn't "normal" then they are just bad/evil ... lock em up and throw away the key.
She might just be upset because public schools suck ass.
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Well, I don't see that there was anything else they could do.... Short of sedating her and they aren't aloud to do that...
I've worked with kids that age that have had anger management problems as well and I DO consider them to be little demons. I tried my best to calm them down, but sometimes I had to move other children away from the room when they had their "tantrums."
Even their parents had problems controlling them when they arrived to pick them up. These were children that saw nothing wrong with tearing up the room and beating up the other children, this just started the domino effect with a few more acting out in the same way.
Basically I did have to remove the "bad" child from the room or the other children from it. This was the only way I could get the kid to actually notice what was going on. But I worked at very small private school so there weren't that many kids (at most 15). Public schools have so many more.
The police may have been able to get this to work for them, but in a public school there are just too many kids to deal with. They didn't hurt the child in any way, they just removed her from the scene and from the other kids.