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Advice from dancers needed: befriending a dancer
There's a dancer I've been a regular for (2 visits or so per month) since last year who I have developed a bit of a friendship with. I've hung out with her outside the club as friends (I'd like it to be more, but she has a boyfriend :( ), I've been introduced to other friends of hers and even a family member, she trusts me enough to let me know her name and where she lives, and we have a lot in common so I've come to think of her as a friend.
The club I see her at is a high contact club (boob touching allowed), and while that's how I met her, recently I've started to feel like I shouldn't be doing this with her anymore, that if she's going to be a legitimate friend or whatever I shouldn't be paying her to get naked and give me affection. I know if I entered a strip club and saw an old friend on stage, I wouldn't get a private dance from her because it would be awkward.
I would like to strengthen our friendship somehow because I really have come to like and care for the girl, legitimately, and I was thinking that it has come time to ask her if it would be best if we don't do private dances anymore, because I want her to know that that's not why I come around to see her. She told me last time, when I was a bit broke, that money is not why she gives me attention and she even encouraged me not to spend on her that night because of my situation, so that "lost sale" part is no big deal. I've finally reached the point that I'll give up the touchy private dances if it means having more respect and maybe a more legitimate relationship of some kind with her.
Am I overreacting in offering to stop doing PDs to show her that I care about her as a person, not an object for groping, or is it an advisable, sweet gesture? Would this gesture likely give her a higher opinion of me, or would she actually be MORE comfortable doing private dances with a guy like me and disappointed if I stopped. Have any ladies here had a situation like this where you became actual friends with a customer and it changed the stripper/customer activities a bit? Would such an offer from a customer impress you?
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Re: Advice from dancers needed: befriending a dancer
It sounds like you have become uncomfortable with receiving PDs from her because you "care about her as a person, not an object for groping."
I think if she was uncomfortable with it she would have told you and stopped accepting your money.
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Re: Advice from dancers needed: befriending a dancer
Yeah, if you care about the girl don't cut her off! She won't lose any respect for you if you remain a customer but you might fuck her over if you stop buying dances.
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Re: Advice from dancers needed: befriending a dancer
the only person to ask would be her. plead your case to her. i made the mistake of not spending money on her
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Re: Advice from dancers needed: befriending a dancer
I think you are best off leaving things they way they are, not telling her you wish things could go farther, and not buying dances from her. As they say, "it's not broke so why fix it." Continue being personable to her and seeing her often as it is practical. Allow time for the friendship to develop on its own. If something should happen with her relationship, maybe you'll get hints from your talks. Even then if that shouod happen, do not make her feel any pressure of obligation to you. You could joke (casually, probably only once) about wishing she has an available sister. You need to be cool and non-threatening, but you could be funny and a good friend.
You know, it just might not be in the stars.
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Re: Advice from dancers needed: befriending a dancer
God, where does one start?
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Originally Posted by Caelum
There's a dancer I've been a regular for (2 visits or so per month) since last year who I have developed a bit of a friendship with. I've hung out with her outside the club as friends (I'd like it to be more, but she has a boyfriend :( )
Bingo!
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Originally Posted by Caelum
I've been introduced to other friends of hers and even a family member, she trusts me enough to let me know her name and where she lives
You sure about that? Plenty of dancers have fake "real" names that they give out at work.
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Originally Posted by Caelum
The club I see her at is a high contact club (boob touching allowed), and while that's how I met her, recently I've started to feel like I shouldn't be doing this with her anymore, that if she's going to be a legitimate friend or whatever I shouldn't be paying her to get naked and give me affection.
Well, this is an easy one. If you don't think it's cool to get privates from her, don't get privates from her. It's that simple. But would you care to wager on how long the affection lasts after you stop? She isn't there for a party Cael, she's there to make the car payment and get the light bill paid.
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Originally Posted by Caelum
I would like to strengthen our friendship somehow because I really have come to like and care for the girl, legitimately, and I was thinking that it has come time to ask her if it would be best if we don't do private dances anymore, because I want her to know that that's not why I come around to see her.
It is, however, why she goes to work.
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Originally Posted by Caelum
She told me last time, when I was a bit broke, that money is not why she gives me attention and she even encouraged me not to spend on her that night because of my situation, so that "lost sale" part is no big deal.
This isn't exactly a new thing come down the river. You're broke one day so she goes easy on you, that way you go see her again when you do have money.
And, uh, don't go to a SC if you don't have money to spend. That's just a word of advice. You don't want to be a part of dressing room conversation, TRUST ME on this one.
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Originally Posted by Caelum
I've finally reached the point that I'll give up the touchy private dances if it means having more respect and maybe a more legitimate relationship of some kind with her.
Actually, you'll get a lot more respect from her if you buy the dances anyway and just act like a gentleman during them. Keep your hands to yourself, considering it's a high contact club you might actually make more of an impact with something like that than you will with this white knight "i respect you too much" stuff.
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Originally Posted by Caelum
Am I overreacting in offering to stop doing PDs to show her that I care about her as a person, not an object for groping, or is it an advisable, sweet gesture?
It's an inadvisable overreaction to a candyland fantasy you've built for yourself. It happens, you aren't the first and you won't be the last.
As a general rule with this stuff "If you have to ask, the answer is no."
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Originally Posted by Caelum
Would this gesture likely give her a higher opinion of me
No.
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Originally Posted by Caelum
or would she actually be MORE comfortable doing private dances with a guy like me and disappointed if I stopped.
Depends on how you act. Generally, though, the answer is no. I wouldn't spring this on her if i were you.
The remainder is a question direct to the dancers, so i'll leave it be.
You seem like a decent guy, Caelum, so i'm sorry to be blunt with you but things work a certain way in a SC and it isn't the way things work on the outside (hopefully this isn't new info for you). Save yourself some heartache and either suck it up and enjoy your time with her for what it is, or find another girl ASAP.
Besides, what's so 'illegitimate' about a decent dancer/custy relationship? Sometimes it DOES click and the two people actually like each other, there is nothing illigitimate about that unless one of the parties involved wants something more from the relationship that the other just isn't gonna give up.
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Re: Advice from dancers needed: befriending a dancer
One starts at the Beginning :D
Look bro, I can't say I'm in a similar situation, but a "friendship" of any level is only TRIED when one member wants to more <better friendship relationship whatever>
I can't speak for the duders here, but I personally believe honesty is in the eyes and if she told you her real name and is lying to you, whatever, then fine. I'm going to assume you feel she's honest, and thats good enough for me.
Mad Cap and other fellows,
it seems to me that a dancer hiding her real name when asked is a similar as the girls that give me their fake numbers and names when I ask them at the bar. They are in no short order and I just don't think its unique to dancers :D
Anyways, you are projecting a feeling of being jaded by the situation. Change it by being upbeat, and remember, any 'restrictions' you place on the two of you 'No LDs' whatever, puts a level of stress between you two. Its just the nature of the beast, she is going to immidiatly feel she made you uncomfortable.
What you need to do, is continue to do the things that got the friendship started, just have more fun with them.
I said this once before, one of my favorite dancers thought our dance was getting too serious, so I started laughing at nothing, and she was like 'What WHAT WHAT OH YES YES YES YES YES' And she started bucking on me and slamming my chair against the wall to make everyone hear me. Its an open area but since there was no music, EVERYONE paid attention. It was fun, and I had a good time with it.
'Did you like that?'
'No I hate girls now'
Other dancers Laugh at me.
Remember, you're going to a SC to have a good time. Hopefully with her. Don't turn things into what they don't need to be.
::Mast::
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Re: Advice from dancers needed: befriending a dancer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caelum
There's a dancer I've been a regular for (2 visits or so per month) since last year who I have developed a bit of a friendship with. I've hung out with her outside the club as friends (I'd like it to be more, but she has a boyfriend :( )
I say, be honest with yourself... what you say here is that you want to be more than friends, although in other parts of your message you talk about strengthening your friendship.... if you want to be more than friends, you are talking about cutting him out and taking his place... hey, plenty of people have boyfriends or girlfriends, meet someone else, and split up with the old to go with the new... it's not unusual or unethical... they're not married, right? Imho, having a boyfriend or girlfriend does not put someone off-limits. But if you are not honest with yourself about what you want you are just cruising towards an emotional disaster.
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Re: Advice from dancers needed: befriending a dancer
Thanks a lot for the responses so far. And no problem with the "blunt" response Madcap, I need tough love too. I've got tons of conflicting feelings about this, and just wanted to see what others thought, even though you'd have to be closer to the situation to really understand what's gone down so far.
Just wanted to give a few reactions here to some of the replies:
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Originally Posted by verfolgung
You really need to ask yourself what your true intentions are, because offering to stop doing dances in order to "strengthen the friendship" is prolly not going to result in you replacing her bf.
I'll be honest, her and her boyfriend are definitely, definitely having some problems. She was seeing him before I met her, and yes, in an ideal world I would like to get the chance to date her if she becomes single again, and that is my foremost motivation here. But, I don't know if she would be interested in me in that way at this point, and I would still like to be friends even if that never happens. I have had plutonic friends in the past who I've been attracted to, and it worked out fine.
Actually, I indicated to her that I might have to cut back on PDs from her indefinitely for financial reasons, not just for one visit, and that I would then feel guilty about coming in and taking up so much of her time at work. She made it specifically clear that she's fine with that and still wants me to visit even if I don't spend a dime. (it's hard to see her outside the club much for a variety of reasons, such as her boyfriend and our work schedules, so visiting her there is much much easier). But that was a conversation about "cutting back" for financial reasons, not stopping completely for personal reasons.
Also, I do know with 100 percent certainty that she gave me her real name. I've been out with her in public and other people refer to her by the name she gave me.
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Re: Advice from dancers needed: befriending a dancer
Like I said, I would like to go out with her at some point if she becomes single. She's quite young (she's early 20s-I'm mid 20s) and there's a fair chance this boyfriend won't be her last. I'm not so sure a girl would want to go out with a guy who pays her for PDs at a club, so my true reason for thinking about having this conversation with her is to try to put myself in better standing with her in case she becomes single soon.
I'm not talking about just abruptly cutting off PDs. If I do that or stop coming to the club as much with no explanation, she'll wonder what happened. All I'm talking about here is starting an innocent conversation about whether or not she's still OK with me coming in and doing PDs with her since we've recently gotten more of a personal relationship going. If she says she doesn't mind the PDs at all and doesn't respect me any less, then fine, nothing changes. My thinking is that at least having the conversation though might reinforce that I do care for her a bit and that's the reason why I see her. This is all about trying to make a good impression with her.
I know it may be hard to believe, but I'm not just a lust-filled guy that wants to bang her. I do honestly want something more meaningful than that in her case.
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Re: Advice from dancers needed: befriending a dancer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caelum
I'm not talking about just abruptly cutting off PDs. All I'm talking about here is starting an innocent conversation about whether or not she's still OK with me coming in and doing PDs with her since we've recently gotten more of a personal relationship going.
You said you need tough love so I'll be blunt as well... since you've said you want to be more than friends, that you'd like to date her, it would be a misnomer to call this proposed conversation an 'innocent' one.... it's just the opposite, it would be a conversation in which you have an ulterior motive that you are not revealing to her -- that's not innocent.
I'm not into giving advice, I only know what I would do, and I have a tendency to be totally honest with people -- which is probably why I don't like to give advice... being totally honest is rarely the right way to go, lol.
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Re: Advice from dancers needed: befriending a dancer
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Originally Posted by Caelum
I'm not so sure a girl would want to go out with a guy who pays her for PDs at a club, so my true reason for thinking about having this conversation with her is to try to put myself in better standing with her in case she becomes single soon.
Actually, a lot of girls wouldn't want to date a guy that had ever paid her for privates in a club. Seeing someone naked before you even know her name isn't exactly harlequin material, much less having her grind in your lap (or in this case, eh, groped).
I'm not totally downing the whole idea, it happens (if rarely), but i wouldn't set my heart on it...
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Re: Advice from dancers needed: befriending a dancer
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Originally Posted by dlabtot
since you've said you want to be more than friends, that you'd like to date her, it would be a misnomer to call this proposed conversation an 'innocent' one.... it's just the opposite, it would be a conversation in which you have an ulterior motive that you are not revealing to her -- that's not innocent.
True, but in terms of wanting to date a girl, how is that different from approaching a girl who interests you in a bookstore and asking about the book she's reading? You don't really care about the book, you have the ulterior motive of trying to talk to her and make an impression. Is that wrong?
I don't have any devious intentions. I'm not trying to deceive her in any way. I'm thinking of saying things that I honestly feel, as I have been a little hesitant to do private dances lately, mostly because I'm concerned that she may feel different about it at this point and I want her to have a good impression of me, wherever that leads.
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Re: Advice from dancers needed: befriending a dancer
This is why I don't let customers see me OTC unless they pay me...they are under the mistaken impression that we are "friends" and they "respect me too much" to buy dances.
A lot of girls will meet guys OTC of the club for free in the hopes that it will make them want to spend more at the club, but this guy is a classic example of why it's a bad idea.
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Re: Advice from dancers needed: befriending a dancer
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Originally Posted by Caelum
True, but in terms of wanting to date a girl, how is that different from approaching a girl who interests you in a bookstore and asking about the book she's reading? You don't really care about the book, you have the ulterior motive of trying to talk to her and make an impression. Is that wrong?
Gee, that's a pretty easy question. It's different because you are supposedly already this girl's friend. And that girl in the book store probably realizes that you wouldn't be asking her about the book if she were a man. So your ulterior motive, although not stated, is obvious. Also, it is easily discarded because you have no emotional investment in a strange girl in a bookstore. BTW, there's nothing wrong per se with having an ulterior motive, just don't kid yourself about it...
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I don't have any devious intentions. I'm not trying to deceive her in any way. I'm thinking of saying things that I honestly feel, as I have been a little hesitant to do private dances lately, mostly because I'm concerned that she may feel different about it at this point and I want her to have a good impression of me, wherever that leads.
Look, I'm not going to say this again. If you want to date her, and you are initiating a conversation that you hope will lead things in that direction, but not telling her that's your goal, you do indeed have an ulterior motive.
I did not accuse you of trying to deceive her. I didn't use the term 'deceive' because it is too emotionally loaded to accurately describe the situation. How I would characterize such a conversation is that you would be being 'less than forthright'...
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Re: Advice from dancers needed: befriending a dancer
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Originally Posted by Emily
This is why I don't let customers see me OTC unless they pay me...they are under the mistaken impression that we are "friends" and they "respect me too much" to buy dances.
A lot of girls will meet guys OTC of the club for free in the hopes that it will make them want to spend more at the club, but this guy is a classic example of why it's a bad idea.
Hey, that's why I'm here trying to get some feedback. This is an odd situation that I've never had to deal with before, and if I'm being ridiculous I need people to tell me that, and I thought this would be a place to go to maybe find people who have seen situations like this unfold. I do honestly like the girl and mean no harm to anyone, but I'm not honestly sure how to handle this whole situation. So thanks again for the feedback.
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Re: Advice from dancers needed: befriending a dancer
here's the thing about strippers....
we know you're unsure if we're serious, so if we are serious, we make damned sure you know it. if you have to ask yourself if she really likes you, she doesn't. She probably doesn't want any customer "friends", especially if she already has a boyfriend.
I have no doubt that you really like the girl and have good intentions. I just feel that you are being played by an unskilled hustler.
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Re: Advice from dancers needed: befriending a dancer
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Originally Posted by dlabtot
I did not accuse you of trying to deceive her. I didn't use the terms 'deceive' or 'deception' because they are too emotionally loaded to accurately describe the situation.
Gotcha. I guess I perceived the term 'ulterior motive' to be emotionally loaded when I first read it. And really what I was trying to say with that (admittedly weak) analogy was that an ulterior motive in terms of wanting to make a good impression with a girl you'd like to go out with isn't necessarily a bad thing, and I do admit that is my ultimate hope, though like I said if we just wind up being friends that's OK too, and I do mean that.
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Re: Advice from dancers needed: befriending a dancer
If you wanna believe in Cinderella, you have to believe in midnight as well...
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Re: Advice from dancers needed: befriending a dancer
I just noticed
he asked for DANCER advice. And got an answer from 1 dancer.
:( :(
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Re: Advice from dancers needed: befriending a dancer
^Madcap- good Cinderella analogy.
Caelum: we are sex objects to you. You are a money object to us. That's the long and short of it. Girlie knows one of your hands is extended in "friendship" and the other is firmly wrapped around your d*ck.
Please stop seeing her before you get hurt and things go sour. This is how stalkers are made. Good luck.
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Re: Advice from dancers needed: befriending a dancer
or (on her bad relationship with her boyfriend)...
it sounds like the perfect excuse to keep you around without having to give you anything.
She doesn't want to date Caelum.
Think about it....if you were in a bad relationship and someone you liked more came along, you'd dump the one you are with and start dating the new person (or cheat on them). Either way, you'd make a move.
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Re: Advice from dancers needed: befriending a dancer
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Originally Posted by madmaxine
Please stop seeing her before you get hurt and things go sour. This is how stalkers are made. Good luck.
awww....
he's a RIL who has fallen for her BS...."stalker" seems harsh
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Re: Advice from dancers needed: befriending a dancer
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Originally Posted by Caelum
I have had plutonic friends in the past who I've been attracted to, and it worked out fine.
Far out....so this was like a Lava Girl? ;-) I can see why you'd want to keep the relationship platonic.....
<i>plu·ton·ic (plhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/oomacr.gif-thttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/obreve.gifnhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gifhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ibreve.gifk) adj. Of deep igneous or magmatic origin: plutonic rocks.</i>
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Re: Advice from dancers needed: befriending a dancer
Where to begin.....
I do see dancers OTC as friends - longest relationship goes back 4 years, and yeah, it can be a strange thing ending up friends with a dancer. For a start, the nature of the relationship varies from dancer to dancer. They all want slightly different things, but in every case we are more interested in each other as people outside the SC environment than in it.
I'm also very careful to make sure what sort of relationship they want if I meet them at work, (most often to give them a lift home). This ranges from "I'd be happier if you didn't look at me while I'm naked", to one dancer who occasionally has private dances from me because she enjoys them. (I find this bit of role reversal rather amusing).
Money doesn't come into it on either side. They won't let me contribute to their income in the clubs - I won't let them give me petrol money for giving them lifts, etc.
Frankly, I find a little bit of embarrasment creeps into it if I meet dancers at work - we always behave the same way with each other inside the club as we do if we meet outside. This means the dancer tends to switch off her "stripper persona" if she's with me - and they and I get uncomfortable if they're naked in front of me in their "real world" persona.
Do I know their names and where they live? Yep - they've visited my house, and I theirs. We use landline phone numbers, etc., as well - there's a lot of trust on both sides. The trust didn't come quick, but I've known these dancers a fair time. (And I have to say I know one of the bf's as well. He's not a great one for going out, so he's quite happy for me and his gf to disappear off together - he knows the relationship is platonic.)
Thinking back over it - it was really the dancers who set the pace on the friendships - nothing happened faster that they were comfortable with. For sure one of the key factors for them was I made it very clear I was interested in them as a person first and foremost, and as a dancer a very, very long way second.
Thoughts....
Firstly, in each case the friendships developed over just a few months. For her to keep the status quo for a year suggests she sees you primarily as a friendly face inside the SC - nothing wrong with that. I know more than a few dancers who have favoured customers they are genuinely very happy to meet ITC, but don't really want a relationship with OTC.
Basically many dancers enjoy performing for someone they consider "safe". It's a relaxing way for them to earn their money without worrying about groping hands or stupid questions. The liking can be deep and sincere, but the dancer still considers the relationship a business one.
Should you be touching? Nope - unless the dancer herself wants you to for her own personal reasons. Offer to let her give you an air dance - and tell her that you'll continue to buy them whatever. If she still wants contact for her reasons, she'll soon make it clear. Don't be surprised if you keep getting air dances.
Money - be damn sure if a dancer really wants you for an OTC friend, she'll stop treating you as a source of income. If I'm honest, it's swings and roundabouts with the dancers I know - what they don't get in their collections, they're saving via the lifts I give them. It's nicer that way for both of us, cos that way neither of us feels they're making money out of the other. As friends we do each other favours - end of story.
Should you have a conversation with her about the situation? Yes, but be prepared for a different reaction from the one you might hope for. She could be flattered - she could be concerned that you're getting too serious and need to be kept at arms length. You won't know until you ask.
Are you going to end up in a relationship with her? Probably not - you've been the 'customer' too long for her to make the mental shift of gears that it'll take for her to see you as boyfriend material. If she was interested in you as a bf, I'm sure she would have made it obvious by now.
Are friendships with dancers rewarding? I value the ones I have deeply, (and have had practical demonstrations that the feeling is mutual). The friendships suit me and suit them. If you're going to pursue a friendship or relationship with this dancer be damn sure that both you and she are pursuing the same things. If you aren't, one or other of you is going to feel hurt/used.
End of rather long post...
Phil.