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No more lap dancing in Seattle??
Okay so everything will be a Brothel in Washington then??
http://archives.seattletimes.nwsourc...ery=strip+club
So if you take away the dances will the clubs at least get their liquor licenses back? If not you might as well out law exotic dancing in Washington state all together! Seattle is already known for having as much extras in club as Houston or San Fran, so why mot make it the most extras city in the Nation by outlawing lap dances altogether?
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Re: No more lap dancing in Seattle??
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Originally Posted by Paris
Okay so everything will be a Brothel in Washington then??
nahhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Its gonna hurt for awhile,but then the focus will be on entertaining, with exotic dancers on stage and not HJ/BJ's in the vip room.
The custies wont be going anywhere,just the morons who want the extras dont come in.
This will actually give you a higher class of clientel IMO.
The good thing is 80% of the strippers in that area will be leaving.They wont be able to survive without the extras.
The bad thing is,surrounding states without lapdance regulations(yet)are going to be swamped with alot of low quality girls.
They are going to all but fill the dives in the surrounding states.
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Re: No more lap dancing in Seattle??
There go the customers. Customers are not going to clubs with nothing going on period. Washington now joins the ranks of Missouri. Clubs and dancers are going to have to start massive protesting and upheavals with all of this anti adult legilation going on. Washington state sucks period. The clubs were all juice bars anyway, and the liquor laws period suck in this state, as all liquor must be bought through state run stores, which are hard to find, and have crappy hours and selection.
It is an example of a Democratic state which is conservative.Washington has a lot of funny laws.
We don't do anything to stop all of this anti adult legislation. It's time for war and riots. Historically, mass pandemonium is the only way to get noticed. The less we do, the more widespread this action will become until clubs become non existant.
Why are we just rolling over and playing dead whenever our rights get threatened? That is just like letting the school bully beat us up and never fighting back.
What is happening is OUR fault as well as the customers who enjoy adult entertainment keeping quiet.
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Re: No more lap dancing in Seattle??
There is no liquor in these clubs. If they get liquor licenses the dancers have to wear at least t-backs and pasties while performing. There already is a 10 foot rule in place for nude performances. So all lap dancing is done in bikinis already. Many of the dancers offer FS in some of the clubs like Rick's and Sugars on day shift anyway, and the club does not take a hit from vice if girls are caught breaking the law. The dancer gets a prositiution citiation and is sent home from work (prostitution is not usually an offense that will get a dancer arrested, only street prostitution gets the girl arrested in Washington).
I'd like to see lap dancing remain, and the clubs opening offering liquor with dancers wearing the minimum allowed by law. There has been a moratorium in Washington against new adult clubs for almost 20 years, so they are trying to get rid of lap dances legally before the moratorium is lifted.
As far as classy performances, they already have that with a PussyCat Dolls type of reviews performing throughout Washington. I have performed in some of these shows, but they are more along the lines of a Vegas show, and not really in compitition with a SC atmosphere. The audience does not really interact with the performers except for when one performer passes the "hat" for tip collection while waiting her turn on stage, or sales of polariod photos with the group.
I'd like to hear from Seattle girls about what they think of this situation, and what their plans are.
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Re: No more lap dancing in Seattle??
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Originally Posted by Tina
There go the customers. Customers are not going to clubs with nothing going on period.
This is the problem in a nut shell.
When you say "NO EXTRAS"period,you always have a stripper who doesnt agree with where the line is drawn.
To bad for her,to bad for the custies who are looking for them imo.
To bad someone else has to get involved to set our rules and standards.
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Why are we just rolling over and playing dead whenever our rights get threatened? That is just like letting the school bully beat us up and never fighting back.
the reason is simple why entertainers cant stand up and demand anything.
Most are working under the table and off the books.
When the time comes that they are all working as legal subcontractors,then and only then,can they start to dictate the rules of this industry.
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What is happening is OUR fault as well as the customers who enjoy adult entertainment keeping quiet.
The fault lies with the girls who cross the line and the custies who come in looking for it.
To blame the bible thumpers for calling a brothel a brothel is just silly imo.
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Re: No more lap dancing in Seattle??
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Re: No more lap dancing in Seattle??
Isn't Payola a wonderful thing ? Now just hope the clubowners can 'afford' to buy the full council in September. This is one very important difference between 'conservative' republican politicians who insist on sticking to principles, and 'liberal' democratic politicians who can be convinced to see the 'error of their ways' if the price is right and their re-election isn't at risk !
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Re: No more lap dancing in Seattle??
In reading the article from the Seattle newspaper, the same theme again is coming up... The 4 foot distance requirement ordinance is needed to prevent harmful "secondary effects"; can any logical person see a direct link that can be PROVEN between a lap dance and increased crime, decreased property values , or even prostitution? I guess in some jurisdictions a lap dance can in and of itself be construed as prostitition... The problem I see with citing a dancer for a lap dance and thus prostitution in this case is that it is usually impossible to prove "INTENT" to arouse etc, which is usually in the language of most prostitution laws. This whole mess is really not necessary as our legal system and taxpayers should have far greater concerns than petty "CONSENSUAL" issues like these.
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Re: No more lap dancing in Seattle??
This won't ban lapdances in all of washington. You can still get/give lap dances in tacoma, which is just down the road. I prefer going to tacoma, because there are less patrons there than in seattle. Atleast compared to ricks. And if you go to deja vu in downtown seattle you get hit up by the homeless for spare change and you have to pay for parking. But I am not one that wants extras when getting a lap dance. I just want a nice sentual dance with nice contact. I don't even care if its hands off.
You can thank the proposed ban of lap dances in seattle to a guy that sued over the moratorium on new strip clubs in the city of seattle. The city of seatac has similar rules as seattle and the only club left is deja vu. I made the mistake of going there one night and the only dances available were platform dances. What a waste when the platform dance is the same as the stage show.
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Re: No more lap dancing in Seattle??
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can any logical person see a direct link that can be PROVEN between a lap dance and increased crime, decreased property values , or even prostitution?
Well, many judges have supported the 'secondary effects' doctrine ... including the Supreme Court judges in the ERIE vs. PAPS decision who originally established it. Some courts have allowed new local anti-dance club ordinances under appeal to enter into evidence "secondary effects" survey data from completely different states and cities. Of course the "secondary effects" doctrine comes into play when a city wants to regulate the very existance of strip clubs i.e. adult zoning, not allowing new clubs to open etc. Distance rules, minimum coverage rules, contact rules etc. fall under a city wanting to regulate the time, place and manner of strip club operation, which is a different animal.
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Re: No more lap dancing in Seattle??
The judges that allow "secondary effects" studies from other cities/states than the one in question (and often done years ago) are the types of judges that George W. Bush loves aka (Antonin Scalia). IMHO they are nothing but extreme fascist-minded idiots and are doing great damage to our civil liberties and our country. By the way there is a recent study done on "secondary effects" from Fort Wayne, Indiana done by UNBIASED Urban Planners from Ball State University that bodes very well for the adult entertainment industry. A distinction about the Erie-Paps case... it was dealing with totally NUDE DANCING, and giving the cities the authority to regulate (IF deemed appropriate), NOT just topless entertainment, therefore it's not really a PRECEDENT case unless the topic is specifically regarding regulating NUDE DANCING IMHO. There are lots of cases where regulations of time, place and manner restrictions while having the perception/guise from lawmakers and judges of being "CONTENT NEUTRAL" being upheld for prohibiting NEW clubs from opening , but until recently most of the exisiting clubs were "grandfathered in" and NOT subject to the new regulations which is still fortunately the case in some cities and jurisdictions.
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Re: No more lap dancing in Seattle??
Well, if nothing else, it will be interesting to see how 'liberal' Washington politicians and voters actually deal with the issue of strip clubs in their midst. The standard theme here at SW is always that new anti-dance club regulations somehow only stem from bible-thumping conservatives. Seattle may serve as a glaring example that 'liberals' can be just as injurious to a dancer's earnings potential as 'conservatives', or put another way, that clubs and dancers don't actually have anybody in their 'corner'.
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Re: No more lap dancing in Seattle??
Yes it will be interesting to see waht happens, as I have always believed Republicans are generally far less friendly to this industry than Democrats... but there are socially "liberal" Republicans and socially "conservative" Democrats, they are in the vast minority though. Maybe someday after all of our individual liberties have been trampled on and our country becomes more like the "moral taliban", we will start to elect more Libertarians into office...
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Re: No more lap dancing in Seattle??
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Originally Posted by Melonie
Well, if nothing else, it will be interesting to see how 'liberal' Washington politicians and voters actually deal with the issue of strip clubs in their midst. The standard theme here at SW is always that new anti-dance club regulations somehow only stem from bible-thumping conservatives. Seattle may serve as a glaring example that 'liberals' can be just as injurious to a dancer's earnings potential as 'conservatives', or put another way, that clubs and dancers don't actually have anybody in their 'corner'.
All you have to do is look at Missouri to see that there was no 10-foot distance law during decades of Democrats controlling the legislature, but when the Republicans got control, there was a 10-foot distance law passed. Anyone who can't see the glare of that example must be wearing rose-colored glasses.
-Ev
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Re: No more lap dancing in Seattle??
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All you have to do is look at Missouri to see that there was no 10-foot distance law during decades of Democrats controlling the legislature, but when the Republicans got control, there was a 10-foot distance law passed. Anyone who can't see the glare of that example must be wearing rose-colored glasses.
I wasn't trying to dispute the fact that republicans have enacted anti-dance club laws, which your Missouri example and the more recent Florida example clearly illustrate. What I WAS trying to point out is that Democrats are also capable of enacting anti-dance club laws, with the current Seattle brouhaha following in the footsteps of NYC, Lodi NJ, Washington DC and countless other Democratic areas in restricting the supposed 'free speech' rights of local dancers.
When it comes to strip clubs in the news, politicians of both parties want to be on the side of 'cleaning them up'.
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Re: No more lap dancing in Seattle??
Same thing is happening in Kansas City next month. No more lap-dances. Oh well!
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Re: No more lap dancing in Seattle??
The law in Missouri is under appeal isn't it?
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Re: No more lap dancing in Seattle??
OMG , ya know this is getting riduclous . I am going to start figuring out what I can do about this shit and I hope all of you will do the same . All we ever do is sit aorund and complain about it . This is old puritin crap , burn the witch and all that shit . Washington may claim to be liberal but they are not in the actual day to day life style . The dancers and the clubs out here do take it to far and up unilt recently I have not been able to stomache working in or near Seattle . I came back to the lake city Vu out of desperation recently and found that they are enforcing a new no touch policy during dances done during the night shift and hired an Ex dancer to keep an eye on things . This has tripled my income easily because now the customer chooses dancer for a private dance based upon looks and over all quality wereas before ( in my opinion) they chose alot based on who they thought they could get the furthest with . Personally I think that nationally all clubs should be run the way they are in the North east . Classy gentlemens clubs and neighborhood SC alike all offer decent lighting ( which keeps the quality of girls up ) Full alcohol , full nudity both on stage and during private dances ( sometimes they are topless ) and most of clubs the dancers are required to wear gowns or long dresses . Out here in Wash and other places I have danced like FL and KS the girls run around in booty shorts and T's or some attempt at lingere . None of which I think looks good .Anyways thats my take on things and I could care less what they decided to do with these clubs out here if it wouldn't have a negative effect on the whole industry . Time is running short people to take a stand , how important is your freedom ??
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Re: No more lap dancing in Seattle??
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Originally Posted by laplover69
The law in Missouri is under appeal isn't it?
Yes, it is, but I'm not placing any bets. The clubs' main argument is that the bill contains unrelated subjects (it contains other criminal law revisions besides adult entertainment) and therefore, is not allowed by the state constitution. Each case is unique, but in the past, the state courts have generally granted the legislature broad leeway to put different matters into the same bill if they're even vaguely related.
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Originally Posted by Melonie
I wasn't trying to dispute the fact that republicans have enacted anti-dance club laws, which your Missouri example and the more recent Florida example clearly illustrate.
I know you weren't, Melonie. I don't want this to disintegrate into a political debate outside PP so I'll shut up after this post, but my point was it would have been just as valid for you to phrase your statement about liberals this way: "Missouri serves as a glaring example that 'liberals' can be less injurious to a dancer's earnings potential than 'conservatives', or put another way, that clubs and dancers can have one party in their 'corner'." Perhaps the more accurate characterization, based on the examples we have, is that conservative politicians tend to pass restrictions, liberal politicians tend to be a mixed bag.
-Ev
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Re: No more lap dancing in Seattle??
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This has tripled my income easily because now the customer chooses dancer for a private dance based upon looks and over all quality wereas before ( in my opinion) they chose alot based on who they thought they could get the furthest with . Personally I think that nationally all clubs should be run the way they are in the North east . Classy gentlemens clubs and neighborhood SC alike all offer decent lighting ( which keeps the quality of girls up ) Full alcohol , full nudity both on stage and during private dances ( sometimes they are topless ) and most of clubs the dancers are required to wear gowns or long dresses
Agreed this approach is all well and good where top shelf 'show clubs' and gorgeous dancers who are able to get hired in those clubs are concerned. However, the flip side is that that the majority of dancers don't meet the hiring criteria of the show clubs, and thus must face the dilemma of working in lesser clubs, offering 'legal' contact levels, and earning WalMart pay scale, versus working in lesser clubs, offering contact levels that aren't legal but which are offered by other dancers and expected by most customers, earning decent pay scale, but dealing with occasional busts, versus finding a new line of work.
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Re: No more lap dancing in Seattle??
I haven't read the Missouri law, but my understanding from reading articles is the governor (Blunt) wants to put an end to all "adult entertainment" in that state. If the rationale for passing this law was based upon the perception to "protect the health & well being of the citizens", or prevent the repeating theme here "harmful secondary efects", a good defense attorney has plenty of room for sound arguments. We need to start fighting this "secondary effects' b.s across the board and make them PROVE their theories, as the burden of proof should be on them... Furthermore it's scary that any judge/lawmaker would rely heavily on "secondary effects" studies from OTHER areas and often done years ago. If indeed they i.e. (Missori. Seattle) are having more problems in their areas (secondary effects) in REALITY with strip clubs than that of a regular bar etc, then perhaps their is sound constitutional grounds for these laws, if not, (which is usually the case Fort Wayne, IN study is very favorable for adult entertainment), then these laws are nothing more than discriminatory ideology passed on the MORAL guise to conform with their fascist taliban agenda. Most of the states/cities that have passed these laws have clubs that are full nude, therefore the Erie-Paps case is relevant because it specifically deals with giving cities the authority to regulate "nude" NOT topless dancing... However, the "secondary effects" theory should be challenged in most cases.
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Re: No more lap dancing in Seattle??
Hey BD,
What happened to your Boston summer tour? I'm a little confused - if your money is better and the club is cleaner recently - What's the issue dancerwise?
Best of luck, Rockie (Club A fan)
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Re: No more lap dancing in Seattle??
For those interested in the resent new's on Missouri legislation you can visit our website @ http://www.missouriace.com/ . We will prolly beat them this round but it's far from over. If SB32 had passed we wouldn't be here next month, no strip club's, no book store's, no toy's and novelties...... nothing!!!!! If passed nothing could have beat it and it would have set a precedence for the rest of the country.
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Re: No more lap dancing in Seattle??
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Originally Posted by Melonie
Agreed this approach is all well and good where top shelf 'show clubs' and gorgeous dancers who are able to get hired in those clubs are concerned. However, the flip side is that that the majority of dancers don't meet the hiring criteria of the show clubs...
So be it. There are too damn many strippers these days anyway. Dividing the pie too many ways. Lowering overall standards and reputation. Lately anybody with a twat (and sometimes not even that) can get a job as a stripper, so every Tina, Jane or Mary who can't get/keep a regular job or is simply too lazy to WORK suddenly decides she's gonna be a stripper. It's become too easy to get into this business and we're all suffering for it. Let the ones who can't cut the mustard in the clubs find another job, dammit!
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Re: No more lap dancing in Seattle??