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citizens for community values (ccv)
so i went to this groups website, who have been trying to pass the 6 foot rule in ohio for a while now in our clubs. this is a link to their "factual" report on what strip clubs are like and how they operate.
if you would like a quick laugh scroll down to where it describes the lap dances. the entire site is a sad sad evil thing.
and for you dancers that want out of this aweful buisness, they have a hotline that you can call, and they will whisk you away to a safe and moral job washing windows, or something....
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Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
Oh.....please......Calgon...take me away from this sinful life.....I see the err in my ways......PRAISE GAWD....they'll be refreshments after the meetin
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Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
apparently clubs offer wall dances, where the guys clean their fingers with alcohol before fingering the girls.
i feel left out as all the clubs i have patronized didnt offer that. dammit!
the report also claims that many women claim that they were punched several times a day int h clubs by patrons, lol
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Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
They clean their fingers with alcohol first? Wow! I should go there. At my club, the guys just finger us all they like without bothering to wash first. </sarcasm>
ROFL... "wall dances." That's funny.
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Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss. Kristina Lee
this is a link to their "factual" report on what strip clubs are like and how they operate.
Eighteen women surveyed and their top five answers are on the board.... Oh, wait, it's not Family Feud. But the 18 is right. Hardly a scientific cross sampling. (You will notice there are some positive comments about stripping in some of the quoted responses, however. I'll bet that doesn't register on CCV's radar.)
I've made this observation before: this report was prepared by a former stripper who interviewed others. It reflects some of the bad experiences that have been outlined in this very forum. Shoot, if this CCV group wants to take things out of context, it could come here and lift some pretty juicy stories and quotes that speak ill of the workplace.
The report itself does not advocate any sort of solution, but the moral jihadists don't let that stop them from twisting it to serve their purposes. The report calls for further study. Funny how CCV doesn't advocate that.
My question to CCV would be, where's your proof that a 6-foot rule will improve these dreadful conditions? Prove to me that the rule won't lead to dancers offering lap dances that appear at first glance to be fully clothed, but actually are thinly disguised veils for full intercourse.
-Ev
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Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
Yeah - I think that there were some valid observations, but none of them relate at all to their proposal, and some of them were... well they were pretty far removed from my experience. I mean - protecting the dancers would involved creating a climate in which they are as wholly and fully protected under the law as labourers in other industries, and as all other women. That would involve more community acceptance, not less. Further, the report completely neglects the fact that no legitimate study (like, studies that involve more than 12 people) have definitively showed that sex workers are inherently more at risk of sexual violence than "normal" women. In fact, the reason that urban myth is so prevelant is because of a social predetermination that sex workers are "throwaway", that they have no real protection under the law. And really - what woman has never been called a name on a public street?
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Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
^^^
Although I just read about the "devastation" experienced by Ohio families as a result of naughty bookstores and strip clubs. I bet all those Hurricane Katrina victims are feeling mighty selfish, taking all that aid.
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Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
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Customers spit on women, spray beer, and flick cigarettes at them. Strippers are pelted with ice, coins, trash, condoms, room keys, pornography, and golf balls. Men pitched a live guinea pig and a dead squirrel at two women in the survey. Some women have been hit with cans and bottles thrown from the audience. Customers pull women’s hair, yank them by the arm or ank le, rip their costumes, and try to pull their costumes off. Women are commonly bitten, licked, slapped, punched, and pinched.
DAMN!! Where are these gals working?
I love how these "studies" find the lowest common denominator and promote that as the "stripping culture". Also, one of the first thing I noticed about this poor excuse for a study is how on one hand, the author is writing about how strippers are objectified, etc..., but then in the intro of the paper, disconnects "strippers" from "women" by constantly referring to them as either "strippers" or "female strippers".
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Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
Where are people regularly engaging in these "bed dances", "shower dances", and "wall dances"? Who curls up in a sleeping bag between sets? I would love to see someone lie down in my dressing room to 'nap'.
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Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
Phil Burress is obviously out of touch with reality and is a delusional fascist idiot who belongs in the front lines in Iraq. The scary thing is that this group has large political support (mostly Republicans) and if it wasn't for State Street Lobbying Group and Neal Clark HB 23 would have probably been the law in Ohio by now. This fascist group is also aligned with Alliance Defense Fund http://www.alliancedefensefund.org and Community Defense Counsel http://www.communitydefense.org/ aka Scott Berghtold two other powerful religious fascist organizations that seeks to trample the entire SC industry. It is hilarious reading some of their bogus "SECONDARY EFFECTS" studies that are often used as a constitutional attempt to trample the entire SC industry. They almost got this done in Missouri before a judge realized how bogus and outdated their studies are... SAD and SCARY that lawmakers even believed these bogus and outdated studies to begin with.
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Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
One of the first delusional things that I saw was, in the glossary of dancing, saying that the girls were to do ________ (insert type of private dancing) until the customer ejaculated.
And, although it does happen, I don't recall being REQUIRED to dance for a customer until he ejaculated. If I did, I'd probably be a lot richer and have had more dances from each as not everyone blows his load after just one dance.
I have worked for a long time in Marketing and sometimes have to "massage" data and skew it to a certain view. That is what it looks like in this case. 18 women is hardly enough to be able to provide a true picture.
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Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
I want to know where this takes place... I have never heard of clubs in Canada or the US allowing the girls to be fingered and shower with customers or get in bed with them... maybe in a brothel...
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Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
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Originally Posted by Cally
I want to know where this takes place... I have never heard of clubs in Canada or the US allowing the girls to be fingered and shower with customers or get in bed with them... maybe in a brothel...
Doesn't take place in any clubs that I know of. That's the CCV'S mission to distort reality and convice lawmakers of their PERCEPTION of the terrible evils of SC's and impose their fascist-moral agenda on the rest of us who don't share their views. Sadly, they have been successful in gathering support from mostly Republicans and some Democrats. I think the vote for passage of the CCV's proposed legislation HB 23 in Ohio was like 92-5. (Missouri was similiar). Not enough politicians gutsy enough to OPENLY vote against the "Family Values" crusade, so we have to rely on lobbyists and judges. I bet if the vote was a PRIVATE vote instead of public this industry would have much more support amongst politicians...
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Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
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Originally Posted by DylanAngel
I have worked for a long time in Marketing and sometimes have to "massage" data and skew it to a certain view. That is what it looks like in this case. 18 women is hardly enough to be able to provide a true picture.
Actually, my suspicion is that the study was not for this purpose to which it is being put - I suspect the study is actually advocating for right for the women in the industry, not for putting them out of a job.
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Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
Jenny, you might be right about that but by reporting the lowest common denominator as your average, this study is actually going to have an adverse effect, I believe, in attracting the attention of right wing politicians.
We in NJ have some of the strictest laws around. We are bikini with no touching allowed by law. When you impose all of those rules, you're just begging for them to be broken...and they are, regularly.
It also creates a situation where custies go to the nearest border that allows nudity, in my case NY and PA, and creates a financial defecit for those of us left to work here with no clientele. Girls are performing extras to make up for these defecits forcing out those of us who do not wish to do so. Then you have to factor in the higher fees and/or tipouts being imposed on the girls since the clubs are not making as much on alcohol. Now you have even more girls bending/breaking the rules to make ends meet.
I don't know where the lines should be drawn...I wish I did. I'm just heartbroken that the industry I once loved to work in has dried up around here. What used to be a great way to make money and be able to raise your own kids has now given way to overzealous customers, feeling ripped off by high prices, trying to get more bang for their buck and girls who are forced to extremes by the very rules that are supposed to protect them.
I have to stop thinking so much...
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Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
Wow! A study of 18 people!
. . . I could survey 18 of my friends and conclude that HALF OF ALL HUMANS ARE TRANSSEXUAL and TWO-THIRDS ARE GAY. No shit.
So, uh, wow. GREAT scientific fuckin' sampling, darlings. I'll see you at the No-Duh Prize reception.
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Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
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Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
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Lap dancing requires the woman to straddle the man’s lap and grind against him until he ejaculates in his pants. A variation involves the woman dancing between his legs while he slides down in his chair so that the dancer’s thighs are rubbing his crotch as she moves.
I'm taking this article with me next time. Clearly, some dancers don't know what lap dancing "requires"!! ::)
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Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
Oh CRAP!!! I am so totally going to get fired for not performing my job "requirements". I wonder if I'll get 3 writeups first......
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Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
For the 'Abuse' section, I think they only interviewed girls from Go Go Rama in New Jersey!! lol
"Abuse included biting, pinching, grabbing, hair pulling,"
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Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
at the bottom under refrences. some are from the 70's! i dont think there is anything newer than 1996.
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Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
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Eighteen women surveyed and their top five answers are on the board....
This is commonly known in the scientific community as the infamous Sample of One, thereby rendering its fallacious conclusions useless in any meaningful context...unless of course you're just using it as a front for a transparent agenda.
Two cents.
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Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
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Originally Posted by mollyzmoon
Where are people regularly engaging in these "bed dances", "shower dances", and "wall dances"?
The wall dances were a new concept to me the first time I read that. But I'm surprised you haven't heard of bed dances because they are becoming more common. (Google the term; you'll see what I mean.) I'm also surprised there isn't more discussion of them on SW. It seems showers or hot tubs are less common but they're out there. I've worked a club that offered customers the chance to book a shower dance for bachelor party grooms-to-be and birthday boys.
-Ev
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Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
Just another reason why I hate being in Ohio...Sheesh. And Ohio keeps wondering why are population is declining.
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Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
I would be willing to bet the 18 girls he supposedly interviewed just had a field day giving this idiot answers to his questions... They probably all had a great laugh in the dressing room about it afterwards... Sheesssh...
I too want to know where these "wall dances" take place... Plus, I find it hard to beleive that anyone would throw guinea pigs and dead squirrels on the stage... I know there are some strange people in this crazy world but... Dunno about that... I like that it happened to two of the 18 girls... That is 11% of the girls studied... So in my calculations more than 1 out of 10 "strippers" has had some type of rodent launched at them on stage... So glad to be in the other 89%.
His conclusion, "Strip clubs allow men to use and abuse woman in a manner that's not tolerated in any other business." I wonder if this researcher ever heard of that guy who was the former President of the United States... What was his name? Oh yeah... Bill Clinton and the famous "I never had sexual relations with that woman..."
:D What a loser!!!!!!