Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
(this is comming from a customers stand point)
my concern that since most of this is a bunch of hog wash, what is going to happen once the men out there that a pigs read this and think "sooo if I always come in and spend big then I am basically untouchable" and then try to do exactly that! Or the men think "well since so and so can do it, so can I" or "I didn't know that you could get away with that.. hummm" This article has nothing but BAD written all over it.
-cheri
Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
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We in NJ have some of the strictest laws around. We are bikini with no touching allowed by law. When you impose all of those rules, you're just begging for them to be broken...and they are, regularly.
I agree with this premise entirely, and have seen it happen for a fact in many different places after strict anti-dance club laws have been put into effect. Almost without exception, the only clubs that can actually make money while abiding by the law are a handful of very upscale clubs which cater to the business community. Of the 'not so upscale' clubs, the new laws do indeed present dancers with a dilemma ... either start doing extras in order to still earn enough to make dancing worthwhile, or abide by the law and earn the same amount of money as a WalMart check-out clerk.
From the local gov'ts standpoint, they really could care less whether or not clubs are 'clean' or 'dirty' if the truth were known. The politicians can play up their accedence to 'family values' by the fact that they enacted the new laws. The politicians can also reduce the local gov't budget deficit by slamming each busted dancer with $500 bail and later $1000 fines upon (bogus) conviction. It's a win-win situation for clubowners and club customers, who 'profit' from the dancers doing 'extras' while taking essentially no risk themselves. The only losers are the dancers in the 'less than upscale' clubs, who now face higher mileage expectations from customers in order to earn decent money, who face the risk of being (bogusly) busted with misdemeanor conviction appearing on their criminal record (if not a sex crime!) etc.
Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
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Originally Posted by velvet
at the bottom under refrences. some are from the 70's! i dont think there is anything newer than 1996.
I didn't get that far on the survey, but that was my instinct. I have heard about "wall dances", but I always thought of it in the realm of Tiajuana or Thailand. I don't think any mainstream american strip club would openly advertise such a thing.
It might be a good idea for Stripperweb to duplicate the questions for our forum members to annonmously answer here, and post the results like a poll.
I would also like to see a "control" group of women who have never worked as strippers answering the same questions about their own work places.
Then lastly we would need to hear from male strippers about what kind of abuses they suffer at the hands of female partons. I don't think a shift goes by for a male stripper that isn't assulted or molested by a female customer. Many of the guys end up scratched, bitten, slapped, spanked, pinched and verbally abused as a matter of "all in a days work". In general female customers of male strippers are much more abusive. Men cherish women, but for some reason, most women don't have the same respect for the opposite sex.
I guess getting those results and holding them up to the CCV's ideals for their community, they might have to drop the whole "get rid of the strip clubs" campaign in favor of "Liberate all restaurant workers" campaign. I don't know about others here, but I had to put up with a lot more crap as waitress then I do as a dancer. And I was often sexually harassed by my co-workers, my bosses, as well as the customers. I aquired 3 separate stalkers as a waitress. Never had a problem with stalkers as a stripper. Of course my full name isn't printed on a nice piece of plastic across my lapel either :D .
Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
Paris, I was a waitress for most of 10 years and I couldn't agree more. When I quit my last restaurat job, I told my ex, "Fuck this. I will be a stripper before I EVER wait tables again! The pay is better and it's got to be less degrading." When I started stripping, he asked if I was right. I told him, "Yep. Even more than I knew."
Waitresses are degraded and abused more than the skankiest strippers. And for less money and more humiliation. No, thank you. Never again while I have breath in my body!
Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
I also had another thought on the more balanced survey: after we get some results (like 100 or more participants), we, the stripperweb members, print out the results and begin sending copies off to the lawmakers in Ohio, as well as groups like CCV and the others mentioned here in this thread. Also send the results to the media outlets around the state. Media loves anything that has to do with sex, so it should get some exposure (pun intended }:D ).
I just happened to think that this post will probably be deleted because it is begining to smell of poo, but I feel that as dancers we are a work force of about 300,000 in the US alone! That is a sizeable group to mess with, hmmmm?
The Exotic Dancers Alliance tried to get results, and failed. I think they picked the wrong battle, though. If by showing that exotic dancers are (statistly) in no worse of a working enviroment then any other worker in any other profession, the clubs that really are abusing their dancers will stand out as being such. Right now, the general public has no idea as to what is "normal" for a strip club employee or dancer.
Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
^^I had a stalker issue when I was 17 working at a vet hospital! I brought some guy his cat from recovery, and he looked me up based on my name tag. I refused to wear one after that incident.
Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
I think I've been missing something when I get lap dances...I didn't know I was supposed to cum in my pants...it never occured to me.
As for the rest of the article I agree with Yek having worked in service jobs myself...ya gotta put up with shit for tips and it can be no fun no matter what the job.
Also,I know men are pigs but not all of us customers are, some of us just want a little of the imaginary intimacy. Although I have heard of the stalker thing more times than I care to remember....plus the exposing oneself..
Lastly, I guess San Francisco is a different place as we have wall dances, bed dances, shower shows, sex shows, ect. The whole sticking your finger in as part of the show, never heard of it, although I am sure it happens
Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
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Originally Posted by bella622
I would be willing to bet the 18 girls he supposedly interviewed just had a field day giving this idiot answers to his questions... They probably all had a great laugh in the dressing room about it afterwards... Sheesssh...
Just to clarify, the researcher was a woman, a former stripper. Again, I doubt that her work was ever intended to be leveraged by a moral jihadist group campaigning for their own agenda. I believe her intent was to show that workplace harassment is condoned in certain strip club environments, when it wouldn't be in a non-SC workplace. Nevertheless, it is a lesson that when you expose your dirty laundry, you may not like the motives of the people who rush in to "help."
-Ev
Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
^^^
Actually, it looks like a firsty year research project - something to "learn on" rather than something that is meant to have a result that has a scholarly purpose. For that, actually, it is excellent.
Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paris
I also had another thought on the more balanced survey: after we get some results (like 100 or more participants), we, the stripperweb members, print out the results and begin sending copies off to the lawmakers in Ohio, as well as groups like CCV and the others mentioned here in this thread. Also send the results to the media outlets around the state. Media loves anything that has to do with sex, so it should get some exposure (pun intended }:D ).
I just happened to think that this post will probably be deleted because it is begining to smell of poo, but I feel that as dancers we are a work force of about 300,000 in the US alone! That is a sizeable group to mess with, hmmmm?
The Exotic Dancers Alliance tried to get results, and failed. I think they picked the wrong battle, though. If by showing that exotic dancers are (statistly) in no worse of a working enviroment then any other worker in any other profession, the clubs that really are abusing their dancers will stand out as being such. Right now, the general public has no idea as to what is "normal" for a strip club employee or dancer.
Paris,
I think you have the seed of an excellent idea. What other group of people would be able to come up with a definitive study? Getting national publicity for such a study may not be difficult. Organizing so that it has objective validity may be the hardest area (no pre-established goals just show it the way it is). That would be a great goal for this well-organized and thoughtful web site.
This is a huge, but largely hidden, nation-wide industry. It is subject to mis-directed, ignorant, fuzzy-headed and religiously/politically hot regulation mostly done at the local level. It is more mysterious to the public than most other controversial businesses that are controlled at the same level. And the industry wants publicity.
Maybe someone (a moderator) will make this suggestion to Pryce, though I doubt it is a new one to him.
Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
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Women in this study stripped in the local stripclubs in the Midwest metropolitan area where the researcher lives, in local nightclubs in the same area, in metropolitan and rural stripclubs and nightclubs across the United States, at private parties, in peep shows, and in saunas.
OK, so this "study" was done in more than just strip clubs....but who the hell strips in a sauna? /:O I've yet to see a striptease show in a sauna.
Re: citizens for community values (ccv)
Paris - I am actually dying to find an internship with an advocacy group that, in some way, represents sex workers. Problem is, it needs to be a paid internship. And most such groups can't pay. I think a study exhibiting different labour norms and abuses regionally would be really useful.