We are not supposed to keep in touch w/ custies outside the club. That means no web site, no phone contact, etc. Besides casually mentioning strip club list, is there any way around this rule? How do yu encourage reg's otherwise?
Printable View
We are not supposed to keep in touch w/ custies outside the club. That means no web site, no phone contact, etc. Besides casually mentioning strip club list, is there any way around this rule? How do yu encourage reg's otherwise?
Are you an employee or an independent contractor? They can control an employee that way, but not an independent contractor. Ask them if they want you to convert to employee status?
But don't be the only one asking about that.
You're wrong relayer. They can control what you do outside the club even if you are an independent contractor. Many people feel as though the "IC" status warrants them to have full autonomy from any employment rules and that's a total myth. Of cours the club cannot FORCE you to do anything, but they can make rules of employment with them as an IC, and if those rules include no outside contact with customers, then there you have it. This is simple Business 101 and it's done all the time, every day, completely legally.
Now, on to answering the question at hand. If you are unable to contact them in any way outside the club, do everything you can to plant seeds and leave information as to your availability when you have them IN the club. During your conversation, find out how often they come in, what their patterns are, etc. Make sure you use your name a LOT in conversaition passively such as if the customer says something about football say, "Oh, jeez, just the other day my friend said to me, Colleen, those Jets are going to win the Super Bowl this year!" If your customer buys a few dances from your or a VIP room etc., then make sure when you are done say, "Thsi was fun getting to know you this way, and I can tell you that I always make sure my regulars get true VIP treatment when they are here so be sure to ask for me the next time you come in...Colleen." Plant the seeds while you still have a strong emotional connection with him and you'll have a lot of luck. The best time is during the end of the last dance you are doing for him, not afterwards when you are putting everything back on (which can be a negative emotional trigger).
The simplest way to do this (and perfectly legal) is to tell them what your work nights/hours are so they know when you're available. It helps tremendously if you work a consistent schedule.
While you're at it, tell them when your "off-peak" nights/hours are, and emphasize that you are better able to attend to them during those times. Regulars usually hate the noisy bustle of the younger weekend crowds.
You might also want to ask them what nights/hours they are best able to come in. You may not be able to attend to them during your personal schedule, but at least you can get some information on when they're available to come in.
Practically spealking, if you do not want to make waves, they can do anything with you they want, including "requiring" you to do private OTC "dances" with favored customers. That doesn't make it legal or ethical. According to the IRS work status determination, an independent contractor must have the capability of working for others independently. If push comes to shove (and you are willing to sacrifice working at some clubs), an audit by an informed IRS agent, will settle any club's education about worker status.Quote:
Originally Posted by DancerWealth
Section 1706 Independent Contractor 20 Common Law Factors
General Rule: Client has the right to control or direct only the result of the work of an independent contractor and not the means and methods used by the contractor to accomplish the result. Else the person is an employee and entitled to employee benefits and tax status. A business needs to meet a preponderance of the 20 Common Law Factors listed below to classify a person as an Independent contractor.
... omitting the 20 question list ...
Adapted from IRS Publication 937: Employment Taxes
Outside the club they aren't customers, they're just people.
Well, trelayer, I don't really care about educating them or getting them busted (which would defeat my purpose of having the club there to make $$ in.) I think they are afraid that OTC contact = prostitiution. Personally, I think this is a dumb rule, but I don't make 'em. And I did agree to the rule when I started working there.
I am jsut concerned with trying to develop some regualrs who will come in and visit me. I have a neat website and a busines cell phone and so on, and now I can't use them at this new club.
I have been telling guys that I post on Strip club list, but beyond that I am stuck for ways to encourage them to come back/cneck my schedule/whatever.
I see your point but it's still not relevant. This issue has never been able to stand up in court and probably never will for the issue at hand. In a court of law, I can easily make the case that "The dancer is trying to provide information on how she can be reached outside the club for reasons of prostitution or to directly compete with the club itself." No judge in this country could ever argue against that. As such, independent contractor status means nothing when the "methods of the contractor" go against the "means of the contractor" and can be easily proven that they do not support the "methods" of the contractor at all while in the context of the club. While there is evidence that can be shown how it can, there is more evidence to show why it doesn't. This is why this topic has never won in a court of law. Again, being an independent contractor does not give you complete and total autonomy. Remember, you are signing a contract to work in that club. By signing it, you are voluntarily waiving your rights and it's perfectly legal. If you don't sign it or like it, you have to find work elsewhere. So for people to keep screaming they have rights is quite funny when they have voluntarily signed them away.Quote:
Originally Posted by threlayer
Just be sneaky about it like everyone else. Fuck the rules. Colleen, I'll bet you a free lapdance that if a stripper at that club looks good, works hard, and gets along, no one will see a thing. ;)
I agree with Katrine. It's only against the rules if you get caught... be sneaky!
The points I am making may not be practical or implementable, but they are most certainly relevant.
Many dancers here report that they want to start a private entertainment business. Or an ebay business, or a catering business; whatever. Unless you signed a "do not compete" type contract, if you are an independent contractor, you have a legal right to engage in a legitimate business. In fact if you cannot work in another business, especially your own, due to club rules, the club is in violation of tax statutes regarding worker status.
Far as prostitution, anyone can do that whether they have ever danced or not. You could do that even if you modelled clothing in a dress shop and never took anything off. All it takes is a place, paper, pencil, wheels, some money, and the appropriate biological equipment. Ask the people interested in starting that business if it is actually for prostitution. I doubt if you'll get any positive responses.
If a club went against a dancer (and it wasn't arbitrated or settled out of court) for being in her own business, the dancer likely could do more economic damage (in absolute dollar terms) against a club than the club could do to her. Many clubs do not have such an explicit requirement, and it is not the case that independent contractor dancers who have their own clientele necessarily prostitute themselves. So the club likely can only weakly speculate before a judge what she might do with her business, of which the club has no real evidence. The club will not be able to make the case that their work rule prevents prostitution; that would be ridiculous and the claim would be laughed out of court. A dancer going up against a club certainly is extreme and is up to her, but most all clubs have done many illegal things, especially tax-wise. The club may have lawyers, but the IRS and state tax departments have many more of them. If the dancer has been legitimate in filing taxes, she can expect support from the government in return for her help in their filing a case against the club. Then she could sue the club for discriminatory and unfair work practices as well. Then her state Department of Labor would join the onslaught against the club. If these plans were revealed to the club, a rational manager/owner would likely capitulate; they know their sins.
In fact the current status of all these independent contractors who have NEVER organized and had control of their profession is a major reason that status in the industry is in the weak and sad shape it is now. Ever heard of club managers, DJs and bouncers taking the place of the dancers during a work strike? They just have to bring in new dancers as they find them. The dancers could be a powerful force in shaping work rules, but they are just too independent and unorganized to work together. I'm sure the sleazeball management of most clubs take full advantage of that fact and laugh about it all the way to the bank. Too bad; the dancers deserve much better.
I don't know we've gotten all off on the Independent Contractor tangent, Colleen asked a simple question on how to help cultivate regulars without handing out contact information.
Prostitution is not a legitamate business though. Strip clubs themselves are a semi-legitimate business.Quote:
Originally Posted by threlayer
Clubs just don't discourage dancers from handing out contact information because letting them do so encourages the parties to take their business (legit or not) elsewhere. They discourage it because in many locales, its a violation of the law. They can't afford any bad press linking their club with dancers involved in prostitution or drug dealing, or one of their dancers being murdered by a deranged customer, or a foolish customer handing over his life savings to a manipulative dancer.
Is that really true? Specifically, which locales? What laws? There is a law saying that one person can't call up another person based on where they met? I don't see how such a law could pass First Amendment muster.Quote:
They discourage it because in many locales, its a violation of the law.
Yeah, the club can choose not to hire you for whatever reason, just as you can choose to go work at a different club for whatever reason, but in the United States of America you have the right to talk to anyone you damn well please. Besides, if you are careful, and sneaky, and how are you gonna get caught anyway?
Very good advice here. However, I never communicate with customers without a third-party mediator now.....it seems once they have a direct line of contact, they zero in on trying to get services for reduced prices or for free. They're no different than some guy trying to talk to you on the street.
This whole subject is freakin crazy. If you SIGNED an employment agreement with a club that dictates what you do on your PERSONAL time, then the club itself is no better than the nazi christian conservative religious freaks that attempt to legislate their unique moral agenda upon the rest of us by having the clubs closed or legislated out of business by overly restrictive ordinances. Sorry, I have no use for fascist hypocrites, the guise the clubs are using for this silly rule is just an excuse to control the dancers PERSONAL lives as there are NO constitutional local laws of this nature that would stand up in any court other than the moral taliban's.
If you got his # call him. How the heck are they gonna find out? It's not like they have access to your cell phone bill ! They will have no way of knowing that you e-mail him either if he gave you an email addy. Do they have acess to your computer...NOPE sure dont !
Assuming you are comfortable that the custie isnt a cop or a management plant:
When youre sitting at his table or hanging out in the LD area, give him your cell number or email addy. Repeat it several times. Have him repeat it back to you. Dont write it down for him on the back of a napkin or whatever since your club obviously has rules against that. Unless the bouncers and management are lip readers, they wont have clue what you are doing.
A custy (for the most part) wants to know when his favs are working. The only avenue he reasonably has for discovering this information is for you to tell him. Calling a club trying to find out dancer schedules is usually a waste of time. The guy who answers the phone (often just a door guy or bouncer) will most likely either blow the customer off or give out bogus information.
FBR
Surely you are allowed to talk about what you did today, like that you've been working on your website www.whatever? I ofeten give away underwear with the name of my website minus the (wwww and .com) As far as anyone knows it's just a statement of what I do (a lapdancer) That works also if your website is also your dance name. I was just lucky to get a webname thats so easy and obvious.
Having an easy to remember name helps if they want to ring and see if I'm in that night- but it does depend on who answers the phone. A regular schedule is best.
Customers regularly give me thier business card, or scribble thier details on the back of a reciept. Personally the idea of talking to people i hardly know on my own time when I'm with my family isn't appealing. So I tell them I won't ring but i always keep thier details. I may have to rethink that option since everyone else here calls thier regulars and send them in when it's quiet. A few clubs here actually like that the dancers can call customers in on a quiet night.
Hmm. Judges in my country would. And I'm reasonably sure that judges in your country are not so unreasonable as to pretend that a dancer could have no other reason to give out her email address except to turn tricks or open her own private strip club.Quote:
Originally Posted by DancerWealth
That is a little fallacious. First - how often have dancers litigated to enforce indie status? I've never heard of it personally. I've always heard of dancers trying to enforce employee status. And that wins all the time in courts of law - it's more enforcing court decisions in the real world that is the problem. Second - it obviously doesn't give you total automony. It gives you certain kinds of autonomy. Third - I'm sure you know perfectly well that you have no power to waive certain rights. You sign contracts for everything. When I moved into my building I signed an agreement that said I would only have one dog. I happen to know that the first thing the landlord tenant act of ontario says is that I can't be evicted, regardless of what I have signed, for having pets. If you could sign away labour rights, they wouldn't mean anything, because every employer would force you to waive them before hiring you. So - in essence, not ALL of your rights are waivable.Quote:
This is why this topic has never won in a court of law. Again, being an independent contractor does not give you complete and total autonomy. Remember, you are signing a contract to work in that club. By signing it, you are voluntarily waiving your rights and it's perfectly legal.
I find this to be a little misleading. Women who worked in certain airlines in 1983 signed agreements that stipulated certain uniforms they found demeaning and insisted they keep under a certain weight (and in case anyone wants to bring up an obviously stupid point, I will anticipate: it wasn't for safety concerns, for the convenience of the aisle or for any reason except the aesthetic enjoyment of the passengers). They signed. They agreed. And yet. This is still not a legitimate job requirement. I find it... well I won't say funny, when people who are attempting to capitilize on this business are telling the women in it to shut up and bend over because of what they signed already. And anyway - what about those of use who don't sign anything? Do we get to have rights then? Probably not - I would be very surprised if you would ascribe greater rights to me for working on wholly informal basis in a club than you would to someone who has an agreement with the club. So the "signing" is not really the point.Quote:
If you don't sign it or like it, you have to find work elsewhere. So for people to keep screaming they have rights is quite funny when they have voluntarily signed them away.
Club rule varies. when I was working @ Visions in NOLA, management seemed they don't care about it at all.
In fact, bartenders behind the U-bar always preparing pen & paper.
.....also custy gave me their contact # on paper napkins (which was handy when I went to ladies.::) )
By the way, If my favorite hair dresser changes where she works,
I will follow her....dont you?
I've seen plenty of cases where the employer has treated an IC as an employee and then got hammered by both state and feds for withholding, workers comp, and unemployment insurance. Unreasonable restrictions on the IC are a biggie for triggering these actions.
(You cannot sign away basic statutory rights. Just because you sign a paper that allows an employer to kill or enslave you doesn't mean they can. They have to follow the law.)
But that's not what colleen is asking. She isn't trying to get her club busted and fined. I agree with the others, colleen - keep good relations with others in the club and just tell select customers your cell number and/or e-mail address for the purpose of letting them know when you're in the club.
I support ideas that empower the dancers in legitimate, money-producing, non-demeaning, safe activities. But too many independently-acting agents cannot not have any clout on this industry. Dancers would not have as much hassle with management if management were better restricted by existing laws. I'm not recommending risk-taking by individual workers, but I don't believe dancers have to be all alone out there. That's my bottom line here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Zeno
---
By the way the government prefers to decide any questionable cases as having employee status. In one of my vocations this was not ideal so I learned a bit about it. I have dicsussed it with a few dancers but apparently not with any who declare income for taxes.
---
I guess I hijacked this discussion by considering a bigger issue than Collen brought up. I tend to do that. Well, anyway, I hope it is helpful anyway. Sorry if it was a problem.
Sorry. I'm like a hamster. Easily distracted by the nearest shiny objects. So. Get an email address or a website that is easy to remember. I use redhairedjenny. You could be like "colleenthestripper" at hotmail or yahoo or whatever. No pesky writing. Hotmail is best, because people really know it.
My club is extremely strict about customer contact outside of the club. However, there are girls that get away with this even at my club. It's the real world, and it happens anyway. We have to turn over business cards and phone numbers to the managers, and I always do. That way they trust me. I never tell a guy i'm not allowed to take his card. I take it knowing that i'm going to turn it over, though. I have, though had a guy give me his number verbally and had me repeat it back to him about five or more times. And i remembered it, too. And another guy had me spell his last name for him a few times so I could look him up in the phone book. I've not taken advantage of either, but if you're worried about getting caught, those are a couple of options for you.
If someone seems very interested in me, and lives in the area, I will tell them what nights I work, and that I'd love to see them again. It's worked out well in a couple of situations with previous spenders coming back in for me on my nights.
I wish you luck with this new situation, Colleen :).
One place where I worked had a coat-rack girl who took
gentlemen's coats, hats, bags, etc.
She always gave out the business cards to these
guys as they were leaving.
Those guys could call and find out when their ATF's
were working.
And this sort of took care of the "problem", sort of.
But what I saw was gals giving phone #'s, emails,
etc, all that time.
And what are they going to do, when they catch
nearly all the girls that were doing this?
Fire them? Well, they might as have fired the
whole entire crew.
Yeah, I know, they could always hire a new batch,
but all that book keeping costs to keep track
hirings and firings, dedcutions, etc, would
mount up after a while.
If not just the sheer headache of keeping up
with a new batch of girls every week.
Dunno, maybe the customers would love it.
Yeah.