-
Prepaid Dances and Deterred Spending
I don't know about you guys, but when I have a gal take me off to the PD area, I don't really know in advance how much fun that I'm going to be having. Oh, I can get a ballpark estimate sometimes. An established fave is almost certainly is going to selling me more laps than a new gal will, but even there, there's going to be some significant variance. At $20/dance or higher, that's a big difference in price between 8 dances and 12, and as the golden rules states, even with an established fave, YMMV.
Occasionally you have a fave that just doesn't seem to be up to it and you want to quit earlier than you had projected. At the other end, you have a "bench player" or new gal who on your particular visit gets in touch with her inner overachiever, and gets you buy more. When your allowed to pay at the end, it works out okay in either situation though, (provided you have adequate funds in your wallet).
Which bring me to the subject of prepaid dances, which throws a huge wrench into my spending habits. Much like any of you, I can't see a few minutes into the future, and I'm going to be damned to prepay for dances that I'm not sure that I want to happen in the first place. If I only wanted one dance every time, I'd really have no problem with this, but it sure as hell puts a crimp in the enjoyment of that first dance if I was potentially considering multiples.
To date, no prepay gal, no matter how good the dance, has gotten me to fork money over for a second helping. Granted prepays are not common around here, or anywhere that I've been in my travels, so I haven't had a lot of experience in adapting my spending habits to dealing with them. In every case, I've prepaid, it was a dancer initiated call.
Certainly I can understand how dancers want to insure themselves against ripoffs, and clubs (in the case of dance ticket, chip, funny money systems) want to ensure they get their cut of the sale, but I wonder if they realize that making us prepay tends to make us tighten our wallets a bit too?
I suppose the topic for the floor here is how have you dealt with prepay dances? Do you fork over the money each dance as you go? Do you get trust the gal and pony up for five songs? Did you prepay then give a tip again at the end? Do you tell her to take a hike and go back to your table? More specifically does prepayment in your opinion lessen your spending (both on that particular gal and during the trip in general) than what it could've been?
-
Re: Prepaid Dances and Deterred Spending
It's my philosophy to never pay for dances in advance. I accepted a dance from this dancer once and she requested advance payment and I told her that I don't pay in advance. So she walked away and left me in the PD area by myself cuz she refused to do it without pre-pay. So I said fuck her. I had never gotten a dance from her before and I wanted to try her out; so it's really her loss. Later that evening another dancer came up and told me that a bunch of the other dancers who had overheard our exchanges had talked to the girl afterwards and assured her that I was good for it. Even so, I have declined all of her subsequent offers for dances because I remember the shit she pulled and her bitchy attitude. So, yeah I never pay in advance, if it's club policy I just won't frequent that club. Period.
-
Re: Prepaid Dances and Deterred Spending
One dance at a time. Otherwise, it's just one long dance where she'll do her "keep the customer interested" move at the end of the last dance, rather than at the end of each dance. Most of you guys (and dancers) know what move I'm talking about here.
-
Re: Prepaid Dances and Deterred Spending
I would imagine a good counter to those who ask up front is "Let's see how well you do, first, then I'll decide how many" puts the onus on her to deliver a quality dance in order to guarantee continued business.
-
Re: Prepaid Dances and Deterred Spending
Fortunately, my local clubs are not pre-pay. When I'm in a club that is pre-pay, I definately spend waaaaay less money. I never buy a second dance, and I'd never buy multiple dances in advance with a dancer I don't know. You can end up paying for multiple air dances. I'll never go back to a prepay club, if I can find a non-prepay club in the same area.
-
Re: Prepaid Dances and Deterred Spending
Absolutely positively no prepay for dances. If she demands money up front I get suspicious. I will pay her after each dance if thats what she wants but most dancers Ive seen dont want to interrupt the mood to talk money, especially if said conversation would dampen my interest in continuing the playfest.
I have pre-paid for VIP's or paid the house mom half way thru or whatever. Im OK with that because I would only spend VIP money on a dancer who I knew well and is a slam dunk in terms of ROI.
FBR
-
Re: Prepaid Dances and Deterred Spending
In the small clubs I book in in South Dakota and Montana buying a dance ticket or chip from the DJ is a prerequisite. The reason being is that the club gets $5 off of each dance and that money is used to pay us our weekly base pay. The DJ keeps all the dance money until the end of the night and then we get paid for all the dances we sold less the clubs cut.
I personally feel that more dances could be sold if we kept all of our money and collected as we go, but the clubs are afraid they will get stiffed if this happens. With an established regular it doesn't matter, but with a guy off the street I think we as dancers lose money with the up front system.
-
Re: Prepaid Dances and Deterred Spending
Agreed. I've prepaid for dances a few times ago thinking it was some sort of respectful "professional courtesy" to a fellow dancer when I was a customer. Hogwash! The bitch just gets lazy and does as little as possible.
I have requested prepay on a very, very few choice occasions when I had a gut suspicion that the dude would be a flight risk or unmanageable. For the most part I was right. One time I was wrong and the boy ended up being very sweet, but upset that I made him prepay, so he didn't get more dances. Oh well, win some, lose some....
-
Re: Prepaid Dances and Deterred Spending
Quote:
Originally Posted by kikin
It's my philosophy to never pay for dances in advance. I accepted a dance from this dancer once and she requested advance payment and I told her that I don't pay in advance. So she walked away and left me in the PD area by myself cuz she refused to do it without pre-pay. So I said fuck her. I had never gotten a dance from her before and I wanted to try her out; so it's really her loss. Later that evening another dancer came up and told me that a bunch of the other dancers who had overheard our exchanges had talked to the girl afterwards and assured her that I was good for it. Even so, I have declined all of her subsequent offers for dances because I remember the shit she pulled and her bitchy attitude. So, yeah I never pay in advance, if it's club policy I just won't frequent that club. Period.
Oh, honey - that isn't bitchy. She just doesn't think you're good for it. Some customers really don't seem like they are, and you are willing to dance for them, but not take a risk. You and others say that the girl should just trust YOU for it, when you wouldn't trust her? Why? I don't get prepaid because I think it will discourage the customers from running a tab - not because I think there is anything even remotely discourteous about it. Just to give you some background - I once danced for a guy and told him the costs, gave him the total at the end of every dance, and stopped him at $100 to settle. He then tried to tell me that he thought I just liked him. Now - it is the second time ever that a guy tried to rip me off. It doesn't happen all the time. But some customers don't look trustworthy.
-
Re: Prepaid Dances and Deterred Spending
That dancer I described was just greedy; either that or she had recently got burned and took it out on me. Cuz no way a guy like me would buy a dance and not pay. Heck I drop between $300 to $400 per visit at that club, and since I never buy VIP/Champagne room, most of that ca$h goes to tipping everybody in sight, including the bar staff, the bouncers, the bathroom attendants, stage tips, and PD tips.
-
Re: Prepaid Dances and Deterred Spending
i roll my own prepay by either requesting to see the money in the guy's wallet/pocket in advance, or have them lay it out in the table or floor. i rarely let a guy pay afterwards without having at least seen some valid bills or an atm card. i have knockonwood not gotten any counterfeit money,and guys are happy to pay in advance for multiples from me in a city where paying afterward is the standard.
it is entirely possible that i lose some fraction of money this way, but on the other hand, i still get 3, 5, 10 dances in a row pretty regularly with this system, so i feel like it's the best way to go for the environment i work in.
-
Re: Prepaid Dances and Deterred Spending
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenny
Now - it is the second time ever that a guy tried to rip me off. It doesn't happen all the time. But some customers don't look trustworthy.
Just cuz you got burned once don't mean you gotta treat all customers like they are ripoffs. Prepaid dances is bad for the dancers, cuz as previously explained, nobody buys 3 dances in advance. OTOH, if the 1st dance pleases a customer, they might buy a 2nd and a 3rd or more. The other alternative of paying at the conclusion of each dance is even more problematic. When I put my hand in my pocket to get ca$h I assume the fantasy is over and it's all business. I couldn't get back in the mood for a 2nd dance after that.
-
Re: Prepaid Dances and Deterred Spending
^^^
I fully agree with your characterization. I think that is what I said when I said that prepay would discourage my customers from buying more than one. And I pointed out that the vast majority of my customers are not looking to rip me off. And I am sure you are a very good customer - however you said that after other girls assured her you were good for it she changed her mind. And greed - how does greed come into it? It is the same money for the same time for the same service - just in advance rather than after. As for bitchy - honestly, you sound like the bitchy one - "the bitch asked me to pay in advance and because of that I will never get a dance from her, even if I get my way and don't pay in advance." All she did was want her money upfront.
-
Re: Prepaid Dances and Deterred Spending
Quote:
Originally Posted by miabella
i roll my own prepay by either requesting to see the money in the guy's wallet/pocket in advance, or have them lay it out in the table or floor.
Apparently, customers not paying after dances is a problem for some dancers. For some reason, before reading this forum I was of the mindset that if a dude didn't have the ca$h to pay after he got a dance, he might go home missing a body part...like a kneecap or a tooth. The bouncers are a pretty intimidating bunch...obviously I was way off the mark...dancers can't even count on bouncers to convince customers to produce the ca$h. WTF are these bouncers getting paid for then? their good looks?
-
Re: Prepaid Dances and Deterred Spending
Quote:
Absolutely positively no prepay for dances. If she demands money up front I get suspicious. I will pay her after each dance if thats what she wants but most dancers Ive seen dont want to interrupt the mood to talk money, especially if said conversation would dampen my interest in continuing the playfest.
Well said.
-
Re: Prepaid Dances and Deterred Spending
Quote:
Originally Posted by miabella
i roll my own prepay by either requesting to see the money in the guy's wallet/pocket in advance, or have them lay it out in the table or floor. i rarely let a guy pay afterwards without having at least seen some valid bills or an atm card. i have knockonwood not gotten any counterfeit money,and guys are happy to pay in advance for multiples from me in a city where paying afterward is the standard.
it is entirely possible that i lose some fraction of money this way, but on the other hand, i still get 3, 5, 10 dances in a row pretty regularly with this system, so i feel like it's the best way to go for the environment i work in.
Mia the idea is to NOT make us feel like a fuckin ATM even though defacto that is what we are. You have to use your professional skills to glean whether we are cool or not...just like us custies have to mentally click that you are a dancer worth spending time (and money) with. No offense to you personally but if you said FBR empty your pockets and show me your cash I would KTTC.
FBR
-
Re: Prepaid Dances and Deterred Spending
my primary dance experience is in small clubs, one of which had very good and aggressive staff who were protective of the dancers. but being intimidating doesn't mean anything when the guy runs out to the parking lot without paying (which has happened to other dancers i know). my system hasn't stopped guys from buying multiples and a decent proportion even tip on top of that. for me, it's not a lack of trust particularly, it's more that if i see the money directly there, i know i have to make my effort to justify receiving it. i can relax more if i know the money's there and i definitely give better dances when the money's at least laid out waiting for me.
-
Re: Prepaid Dances and Deterred Spending
Quote:
Originally Posted by kikin
Apparently, customers not paying after dances is a problem for some dancers. For some reason, before reading this forum I was of the mindset that if a dude didn't have the ca$h to pay after he got a dance, he might go home missing a body part...like a kneecap or a tooth. The bouncers are a pretty intimidating bunch...obviously I was way off the mark...dancers can't even count on bouncers to convince customers to produce the ca$h. WTF are these bouncers getting paid for then? their good looks?
It is unfortunate, but there is nothing the bouncers can really do besides intimidate. They are pretty fucking intimidating (at least they were the two times I got ripped off - seriously I must stress that 2 times is not a lot for the number of guys that I have danced for) but they can't actually force the customer to do anything. So we could call the police and hold them until the police get there - but you can imagine that we don't want to do that, and that it would be far from worth it. So you are asking us to essentially trust you to pay us after the service when we have no way of knowing that you can or will pay, and we have no recourse. If you pay, and then we don't deliver there are much better modes of complaint. As I said - I wouldn't do it. Losing money twice would not even begin to add up to what I would lose getting paid upfront. Although - in Guam you paid the bartender or bouncer. If you wanted another dance, you bought another one from the bouncer. Guys did it - all the time. I think inevitably, actually. I don't think I ever, even once sold just one 5 minute dance. So really, it's just a matter of what you are used to anyway.
-
Re: Prepaid Dances and Deterred Spending
it also is a function of profiling your demographics. as i said, i have a form of prepay in a city where paying afterward is the norm, and i also get tipped on dances when that is not the norm, but i carefully select out the customers most likely to be amenable to my policies. it works out pretty well.
-
Re: Prepaid Dances and Deterred Spending
mia this is a fun imagined story
FBR sitting at his table drinking a beer and chillin. A very hot stripper comes by, pauses, gives me the come hither look and says:
mia: Hi :) Are you sitting with anyone? Mind if I join you? My name is mia.
FBR: (immediately noticing that shes a hottie) Ummm sure. Im FBR. I'm all by my lonesome. I saw you on stage. I was hoping you would stop by. You want a drink?
mia: Id love a Crown and Coke...but only if youre gonna have another drink.
FBR: Is the Pope Catholic?
~drinks ordered and served and a couple of toasts and some great conversation~
FBR: You are fun as hell to talk to but to be honest, my male brain is drifting off in other directions.
mia: ~knowing where this is going and smiling seductively~ Im fine right here but do you have something else in mind?
FBR: I paid the Bouncer $100 to reserve a seat for me in the dance area...I bet its getting cold as hell by now. Wanna head up that way?
mia: FBR, I was hoping you would ask. You are an awesome guy. But...
FBR: But what?
mia: Well...dont take offense...
FBR: Offense? I dont want to be offended. Im here for fun.
mia: Well, I need to see your drivers liscense and credit card. Or if you have cash, we can waive that requirement.
FBR: Uhhh...well I do have a liscense and credit card but I dont like to show them in Strip Clubs. But I do have money ~fumbling in my pocket and finally producing a significant tiproll~
FBR: Is this OK?
mia: ~looking very skeptical~ Well, I see a $50 bill on the outside but how do I know that the rest arent $1's?
FBR: Uhh...there are $20's and $10's underneath. I would never....
mia: Put up or shut up
FBR
-
Re: Prepaid Dances and Deterred Spending
hahaha. well, if that bore any resemblance to how i interact with customers, i suppose i could be all affronted the way you guys seem to be by the following:
dancer: 'you got some 20s handy?'
guy: 'sure!'
dancer: 'well, let's go have some dances!'
i mean, the guys i've asked to lay out the first twenty (or 50 or 100) generally don't mind kicking forth a few more after that initial dance/set of dances. it is probably totally a demographic thing, since i make about 80-90% of my money off guys under 30.
and ps: most guys who bristle at showing me an introductory 20 to get started usually do pull the bunch of ones thing with their tiprolls, curiously enough.
don't get me wrong, i don't ask about money in advance every single time, but the more i trust the guy to pay me afterwards without making a peep about my compensation before the song(s) start, the higher the likelihood i won't get any money at all, in my admittedly non-wide-ranging experience.
-
Re: Prepaid Dances and Deterred Spending
Quote:
Originally Posted by miabella
hahaha. well, if that bore any resemblance to how i interact with customers, i suppose i could be all affronted the way you guys seem to be by the following:
dancer: 'you got some 20s handy?'
guy: 'sure!'
dancer: 'well, let's go have some dances!'
mia I was just projecting based upon your post but with an admitted tongue in cheek :)
FBR
-
Re: Prepaid Dances and Deterred Spending
lucky for those faves. i suppose i somehow do feel affronted by an implication that something's wrong with the way i collect my dance fees, even though the guys who hate even laying out a 20 to start with fall firmly outside the demographic of guys who would give me money. i mean, it works for me, and i don't get complaints on it, and i can deflect occasional objections pretty deftly. i guess i resent the implications of some of these posted objections. and perhaps i shouldn't, but there it is. not all girls who ask for some preliminary amount upfront suck or don't deserve money, i guess is my point.
-
Re: Prepaid Dances and Deterred Spending
Mia Im sorry you feel resentful about our posts. Its pretty simple really. Dont pay for a product until its delivered. To the extent that you are able to get pre-payment..good for you. But most custies want to pay after services are rendered...not before. And I believe most custies will in fact pay up rather than trying to escape to the parking lot.
FBR
-
Re: Prepaid Dances and Deterred Spending
Concerned Dancer: "Could you be clear about your prepay habits since we can't see you prepay?"
MW: "If Ms. J tells you that I missed prepay, then that's that. I may have missed one prepay this year but if somebody says she missed one lap dance of all the lap dances this year, then that's enough to get a whole lot started. I told Ms. J that you don't have to give the people of Austin a reason to think about hustling me or anything like that. If you hustle somebody, you hustle them to make the landlord happier...simple as that. I'm cool with that. I'm all about that. The dancers in her club deserve to have fair compensation. It's simple as that. It goes further than that.
Concerned Dancer: "So you and Ms J got caught up on Saturday about prepay?"
MW: "If I can't prepay, I can't prepay. It is as simple as that. It ain't about that at all. It's easy to sum it up if you're just talking about prepay. We're sitting here, and I'm supposed to be the franchise fucko, and we're talking about prepay. I mean listen, we're sitting here talking about prepay, not a lap dance, not a lap dance, not a lap dance, but we're talking about prepay. Not the lap dance that I go out there and die for and take every lap dance like it's my last but we're talking about prepay man. How silly is that?
Now I know that I'm supposed to lead by example and all that but I'm not shoving that aside like it don't mean anything. I know it's important, I honestly do but we're talking about prepay. We're talking about prepay man. (laughter from the champagne room) We're talking about prepay. We're talking about prepay. We're not talking about the lap dance. We're talking about prepay. When you come to the strip club, and you see me take that lap dance like a pro, you've seen me take a lap dance right, you've seen me give everything I've got, but we're talking about prepay right now. (more laughter)
Concerned Dancer: "But it's an issue that Ms. J continues to raise?"
MW: "Hey I hear you, it's funny to me to, hey it's strange to me too but we're talking about prepay man, we're not even talking about the lap dance, when it actually matters, we're talking about prepay."
Concerned Dancer: "Is it possible that if you prepaid, you would make Ms. J feel better?"
MW: "How in the hell can I make Ms. J better by prepaying?
Concerned Dancer: "So she can be comfortable lap dancing with you."
MW: "She should be used to lap dancing with me. That’s Ms. J. So my lap dance is going to deteriorate because I'm not prepaying Ms. J? Is my lap dance going to get worse? I'm asking you, is my lap dance going to get worse? So what about my lap dance? Is my lap dance going to get better because other fuckos are prepaying Ms. J, I mean, do that hurt me? Do you think that hurts me? I'm being honest, people are prepaying Ms. J but do that hurt me? Does that hurt me when I go out there and take 48 lap dances, does that hurt me as a fucko? Does that hurt me if this person prepays or that person prepays? Do it hurt me?
Concerned Dancer: "You don't need it as much as they do."
MW: "What do you mean by I don't need it as much?"
Concerned Dancer: "Because you're the superstar"
MW: "What do you mean I'm the superstar?"
Concerned Dancer: "Because you're better than they are. One of the best in the NBA."