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things to get tougher for non-US dancers trying to work in US clubs ...
These provisions are up for a US Senate vote next tuesday, after already being passed by the House of Reps ...
"The House bill would beef up border security with the help of local law enforcement and military technology, impose tougher penalties for smuggling and re-entry, and end the "catch and release" policy for illegal non-Mexicans. It makes drunken driving convictions a deportable offense.
The bill makes unlawful presence in the United States, currently a civil offense, a felony. An amendment to reduce the crime from a felony to a misdemeanor was defeated, with many Democrats voting against the proposal in protest over subjecting people who have overstayed their visas to any criminal charges.
The House also voted 273-148 to end the diversity visa lottery program that's open to countries that send few immigrations to the United States. Opponents said it was susceptible to fraud and could be a way for terrorists to enter the country.
On Thursday, the House approved an amendment calling for construction of a fence in parts of California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas.
The most sweeping provision of the House bill would require all employers in the country, more than 7 million, to submit Social Security numbers and other information to a national data base to verify the legal status of workers.
The U.S. Chamber of Commerce and other business groups protested this provision as unworkable, while immigrant rights groups said some of the new penalties were draconian.
By making it a crime to be present in the country illegally, said the National Immigration Forum, foreign students who drop a class or high tech workers who lose jobs and take too long to find a new employer sponsor would be subject to arrest."
from foxnews.com
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Re: things to get tougher for non-US dancers trying to work in US clubs ...
FoxNews: Always fair and balanced coverage!! lol
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Re: things to get tougher for non-US dancers trying to work in US clubs ...
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Originally Posted by Melonie
immigrant rights groups said some of the new penalties were draconian.
::) Yeah, only because it would finally make it harder for them live and work here illegally. I know all about illegals doing the so-called shit jobs that Americans supposedly don't wanna do, and I know that illegals doing menial work for low pay supposedly affords us all to buy alot of products and services at better prices. But I still can't stand all the damned illegals I see hanging on the street corners waiting to be picked up to work that day, or the thought that the reason Americans don't wanna do those jobs that illegals do is because the employers wanna pay as little as possible for them and work the employees like slaves, so the only suckers they can get are illegals desperate for work. I have a hard time believing that all these illegals working under the table in this country truly do us any good. Never mind the fact that so many of them send large chunks of their paychecks OUT of the country to support family back home. Get the fuck outta here!
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Re: things to get tougher for non-US dancers trying to work in US clubs ...
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FoxNews: Always fair and balanced coverage!! lol
Regardless of the news outlet, the fact remains that the House bill calls for the establishment of a US national database of Social Security Numbers, and requires that all US employers call in to check the validity of a potential new employee's SS# prior to hiring them. This means simply that if someone does not have a SS# in the first place (i.e. a foreign visitor to the US), or if someone provides a bogus SS# which doesn't check out against the database, they are not going to get hired by a US business unless they can produce a valid work visa.
I wasn't trying to make any political statement, only pointing out that this new law, if passed by the US Senate tomorrow, will make it all that much more difficult for girls who are not US citizens to work in US clubs.
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Re: things to get tougher for non-US dancers trying to work in US clubs ...
Does this really apply to entertainers? We are not employees, but independent contractors.
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Re: things to get tougher for non-US dancers trying to work in US clubs ...
Workers are workers, so yes it applies.
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Re: things to get tougher for non-US dancers trying to work in US clubs ...
Yes, Mel, we had a 20 year old Russian entertainer who had overstayed her Visa by over a year. Well, she didn't really keep it a secret. She started making bank and getting the most dances every night. One of our other entertainers somehow got into housemom's personal information and got her information. She called the INS and now the girl is in jail. My best friend is also Russian and works at the club, she was good friends with her as well. She has been trying to help her but the best thing for her according to the lawyers is voluntarily deport. She went to Charleston first for about 3 weeks, then Atlanta. She got married to her landlordto try to stay in the country before she was picked up. She paid him 4k to marry her. Well, turns out he deals marijuana. When they picked her up she wasn't allowed to take anything. She had 25k in a suitcase underneath her bed. Of course he took it. Now they have moved her to southern GA and they are going to keep her there in attempts to charge him with marriage fraud. I feel really bad for her. She was saving up her sleeping pills they gave her nightly to try to commit suicide. She had six and once she got ten she was going to take them all, of course this wouldn't work but the point is she very depressed not knowing when she is going to get to go home. Any ideas, Mel?
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Re: things to get tougher for non-US dancers trying to work in US clubs ...
The lesson here is: don't overstay your visa, and if you do, DON'T let anyone at work know!
I feel for that girl - but she did make her own choices. Hope she gets into a better situation soon.
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Re: things to get tougher for non-US dancers trying to work in US clubs ...
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The lesson here is: don't overstay your visa, and if you do, DON'T let anyone at work know!
Well, with the new law in effect, foreign girls coming to the USA on visitors visas would not be allowed to work in US clubs in the first place, since the national database will spit up the fact that she has no legitimate social security number thus is not a US citizen, plus she has no green card, plus she has no WORK visa, when club management makes the mandatory background check phone call.
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So I wonder what happens if you are a stripper working as an independant contractor and are legally married to an American but haven't applied for your papers yet...
by the letter of the new law, it means you won't be working as a stripper in a US club any more. Apply for your green card RIGHT NOW !
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She called the INS and now the girl is in jail. My best friend is also Russian and works at the club, she was good friends with her as well. She has been trying to help her but the best thing for her according to the lawyers is voluntarily deport. She went to Charleston first for about 3 weeks, then Atlanta. She got married to her landlordto try to stay in the country before she was picked up. She paid him 4k to marry her.
Basically, the INS is all over the 'cottage industry' of foreigners marrying US citizens in order to obtain green cards. I'm sorry for this girl, but she compounded her original problem by committing marriage fraud on top of the original illegal visitor's visa overstay/working illegally. No question that unless she can pull off some sort of an 'asylum' gambit (the US does grant preferred treatment to eastern europeans potentially subject to abuse if returned to their home country) she's headed back to Bosnia or wherever very soon, with zero chance of re-enetering the USA any time in the future.
I'll reiterate a provision of the new law as stated in the link ... under the new law, merely BEING in the USA illegally (i.e. expired visitor's visa) will now be considered a criminal act rather than a civil violation - thus subjecting anyone caught in the US illegally to potential arrest and incarceration until the INS can take permanent action to deport. I'll also state a logical conclusion, that the establishment of a national database is going to guarantee that anyone caught living/working in the US illegally and deported will never again be granted a visitor's visa to return to the USA. The establishment of a national database, and requiring all potential US employers to compare new employees (and independent contractors) against that database, is going to guarantee that foreign girls without green cards or WORK visas will not be allowed to work in major US clubs.
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Re: things to get tougher for non-US dancers trying to work in US clubs ...
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Originally Posted by Foxey
So I wonder what happens if you are a stripper working as an independant contractor and are legally married to an American but haven't applied for your papers yet...
Foxey APPLY FOR ADJUSMENT OF STATUS ASAP!!!! If you are working but haven’t yet applied for your papers or you don't have your employment authorisation YOU ARE ALREADY BREAKING THE LAW! You are not authorised to work. Secondly if you haven't filed for your AOS (adjustment of status) and your immigrant status (visa) has expired or even if your visa hasn't expired but your I-94 has you are residing in the US ILLEGALLY. If your visa or I-94 has expired and you apply now you still may face some scrutiny from immigration because you have over stayed (which again is violating the law).... however it’s better that than being here illegally. The best thing to do is to go ahead and apply but do so as soon as possible don't wait for this new bill to pass it wil only make it harder for you.
I applied for my residency in sept just a few days after I got married in NYC and I made damn sure that I READ and UNDERSTOOD EVERYTHING regarding US immigration law, because let me tell you they will try to find any minor flaw to deny you residency so you have to make sure that your s*it is straight. I have seen it happen many a times.
Anyhoo I don't want to say too much about my situation publicly but if you need any info feel free to pm me. In the mean time read as much as possible on how to apply for your papers. I have provided a the link below to the USCIS website. Also I advice you to be cautious of other websites giving information and to stick to the USCIS site for FACTS as this is the official website of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services http://uscis.gov/graphics/index.htm
Good luck sweetie
Seraya.
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Re: things to get tougher for non-US dancers trying to work in US clubs ...
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If you are working but haven’t yet applied for your papers or you don't have your employment authorisation YOU ARE ALREADY BREAKING THE LAW! You are not authorised to work. Secondly if you haven't filed for your AOS (adjustment of status) and your immigrant status (visa) has expired or even if your visa hasn't expired but your I-94 has you are residing in the US ILLEGALLY
That's the major new wrinkle in the new law being voted on this week ... working without a work visa or green card has always been considered a criminal act, but merely overstaying your visa i.e. merely being in the country illegally was in the past only considered to be a civil violation (i.e. a glorified parking ticket). The new law would make merely being in the country illegally a crime in itself, potentially making anybody caught residing in the US illegally (whether working or not) subject to arrest, charges and/or deportation.
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Re: things to get tougher for non-US dancers trying to work in US clubs ...
Canadians don't need a visa to be in the US. They are allowed to stay for 6 months a year with no visa.
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Re: things to get tougher for non-US dancers trying to work in US clubs ...
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Canadians don't need a visa to be in the US. They are allowed to stay for 6 months a year with no visa
This is true ... for the moment at least, Mexico, the US and Canada share in a program which mutually waives requirements for visitor's visas and passports. However, the visitor's visa waiver does NOT mean a waiver of WORK visa requirements also exists - i.e. right now a Mexican or Canadian dancer who is turned in for illegally working in a US club is already subject to possible arrest and deportation in exactly the same way as a girl from eastern Europe who was turned in for illegally working in a US club.
Also, the US is actively reviewing its border policies with Mexico and Canada, such that the current 'open border' policy of not requiring passports and visitor's visas has no future guarantee it will continue as-is.
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Re: things to get tougher for non-US dancers trying to work in US clubs ...
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Originally Posted by Foxey
Canadians don't need a visa to be in the US. They are allowed to stay for 6 months a year with no visa.
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Originally Posted by Melonie
This is true ... for the moment at least, Mexico, the US and Canada share in a program which mutually waives requirements for visitor's visas and passports.
This apply's to the UK and most of Europe also, we too are apart of the visa waiver program. However the same rules apply regardless of whether you have a visa or waiver both are subject to the same law... you can't except employment or stay longer in the US than amount of time you have been granted.
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Originally Posted by Melonie
Also, the US is actively reviewing its border policies with Mexico and Canada, such that the current 'open border' policy of not requiring passports and visitor's visas has no future guarantee it will continue as-is.
Yea they were actually s'posed to have started this last year but then they changed, it is still being reviewed. However as of last year if you don't have an electronic passport then you're required to obtain a US visa (not sure if this apply's to canada and mexico though).
Seraya.
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Re: things to get tougher for non-US dancers trying to work in US clubs ...
I've heard that as of Jan 1st Canadians will need a passport to enter the US and vice versa, can anyone confirm this?
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Re: things to get tougher for non-US dancers trying to work in US clubs ...
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Originally Posted by Foxey
I've heard that as of Jan 1st Canadians will need a passport to enter the US and vice versa, can anyone confirm this?
Actually, the date isn't January 1 2006 it's January 1 2008 (under the original Patriot Act requirements). However, this situation is under heavy review from the US side. It could turn out that the passport requirement will continue to be waived. It could also turn out that the passport and visa requirements could be enacted sooner. A lot of the answer depends on things like an Al Queda supporter/financier being busted in Toronto last week, which party wins the January election, and other matters which have a bearing on US security concerns.
Just to reiterate, a 'north american' passport and visitor's visa waiver program exists between Mexico, the US, and Canada. A totally separate 'commonwealth' passport and visitor's visa program exists between the UK, Canada, Australia and NZ which the USA is not party to. The US and the EU countries also participate in a third 'electronic visitor's visa' program. And all three of these programs cover visitors' visas only - WORK visas are an entirely different situation, both for non-US girls wishing to work in the US, and for US girls wishing to work in non-US countries. In general, it is now next to impossible for a non-US girl to be issued a work visa for dancing by the US State Dep't. And when the new 'national database' is in place, every employer in the US will be required to check the citizenship and visa status of all prospective employees against this 'national database' prior to allowing them to start working, with non-US citizens being immediately red flagged unless they have been granted a US green card or specific work visa (which also shows up in the new database).
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Re: things to get tougher for non-US dancers trying to work in US clubs ...
Are you sure about the Jan 8th date? Apparently a Canadian customers officer told my mom in November that the date was Jan 1st '06. Where did you get your info from?
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Re: things to get tougher for non-US dancers trying to work in US clubs ...
However, the January 2008 date referred to action taken from the US side under existing Patriot Act law, and is certainly subject to being changed. Since the statement was made by a Canadian customs officer not a US one, it is also possible that the Canadian gov't is planning on implementing changes from the Canadian side of the border on a much faster timetable.
I do know that the news media is buzzing about Canada letting a known AlQueda supporter enter Canada/Toronto from Pakistan recently, with tons of US pressure on the Canadian gov't to arrest and extradite this guy to the US.
There is a lot of concern from the US side that the Canadian anti-terrorism security and passport system are little more than a joke in preventing would be terrorists from easily entering Canada and then slipping across the US border. Perhaps this might explain an accelerated tightening of border security from the Canadian side.
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Re: things to get tougher for non-US dancers trying to work in US clubs ...
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Originally Posted by Melonie
I do know that the news media is buzzing about Canada letting a known AlQueda supporter enter Canada/Toronto from Pakistan recently,
He was coming home, Adbullah is Canadian. You can't prevent a citizen from coming home. Though there are plenty of people around here who would like to see their entire family put into exile, let me assure you.
Anyway, lets not forget that the 9/11 hijackers were all LEGALLY given access to America, Americans fucked up and let them in. Meanwhile my own govonor of Kansas and plenty others propogate the LIE that these guys entered illigally from Canada.
"The Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) has also been excoriated for several spectacular gaffs--most infamously, for sending notification to a Florida flight school that two of the hijackers had been approved as students six months after their deaths.
But there has been no comparable effort to examine the failures of our immigration system. For example, all of the September 11 hijackers were issued visas, but there have been no extensive congressional hearings or investigations by the General Accounting Office or the Office of the Inspector General to determine whether the Stat e Department, which issued the visas, erred in any way."
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Re: things to get tougher for non-US dancers trying to work in US clubs ...
Yep, the INS sent visas out to the hijackers long after 9/11.
Now, whose immigration service is a JOKE??
lol
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Re: things to get tougher for non-US dancers trying to work in US clubs ...
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He was coming home, Adbullah is Canadian. You can't prevent a citizen from coming home. Though there are plenty of people around here who would like to see their entire family put into exile, let me assure you.
Not wanting this to turn political, but the fact that an unknown number of Canadian citizens/residents with backgrounds and sentiments similar to Abdullah's are residing in Canadian cities less than 100km from a very porous US border, and that an unknown number of Canadian citizens/residents with hostile intent towards the USA may have access to fake Canadian passports as the Canadian court found Abdullah did, is exactly the reason that the US is anxious to tighten up Canadian border security.
Yes US border security was lax before and immediately after 9/11. However that was then and this is now. On the US side new laws have been passed since 9/11, new procedures are in place or in the process of being implemented, and this is precisely the reason that it will soon be much tougher for non-US girls to work in US clubs, which is the relevant point in this thread.
You don't need to defend or explain Canadian gov't actions or lack thereof, because frankly on the US side of the border nobody really cares how the Canadians choose to deal with their own islamic fundamentalists. All the US cares about is making sure that these potentially dangerous Canadian citizens/residents don't cross into the USA - and as a byproduct this heightened border security will make it more difficult for ALL persons Canadian, American or otherwise to cross the Canadian border into the USA in the future. The other byproduct i.e. heightened cross-checking and establishment of a 'national database' of citizens and visiting foreigners will also make it virtually impossible for foreign girls without green cards or work visas for dancing to be hired in US clubs in the future.
Confining myself to one economic-political comment, new US laws passed this week committed the USA to spending billions of dollars to further construction of a 'Berlin Wall' along the Mexican border ... which can be taken as absolute proof that the US is serious about tightening up its border security. While Canadian border security is considered to be a second priority to Mexico, there is an absolute commitment on the part of the USA to tighten up customs procedures and to plant more border patrol bodies along the Canadian border.
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Re: things to get tougher for non-US dancers trying to work in US clubs ...
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Originally Posted by Melonie
You don't need to defend or explain Canadian gov't actions or lack thereof, because frankly on the US side of the border nobody really cares how the Canadians choose to deal with their own islamic fundamentalists.
Melonie,
I was just making a comment.
Repeatedly, first you make posts about Canada, and then when anybody replies, you say 'don't bother explaining, we don't care anyway'.
Nobody likes a know-it-all. Is this the Melonie Commentary Forum? You always need the last word, and to silence people? Not very nice, me thinks.
:-X
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Re: things to get tougher for non-US dancers trying to work in US clubs ...
well you are certainly welcome to the last word in this thread ... the deteriorating US / Canadian border situation and it's effects on US and Canadian clubs and dancers will soon make itself clear enough without any further commentary on my part.
I'm sorry about my politically incorrect response to your attempted explanation of the Canadian govt's policies of failing to arrest active islamic fundamentalist terrorist supporters who happen to be Canadian citizens until extreme pressure was brought to bear by the US gov't has apparently offended you. Obviously from a political standpoint there are widely differing views on this subject - personally speaking I feel the US has no business telling Canadians how to run their gov't, but the US does have a right to try and protect itself from known nearby threats which appear to be tolerated by the Canadian gov't.
I was trying very hard to avoid political comments such as these and to confine my remarks to the non-political but probably very real financial consequences of tightened US / Canadian border security which IS going to happen because of these 'perceived' nearby threats (regardless of how large any such threat really is, and regardless of how ineffective any new border security measures might actually be). The fact that the US federal gov't has already made a multi-billion dollar commitment to increasing US border security on both the Mexican and Canadian borders based on present 'perceptions' is the reason I commented that no explantations are necessary ... it's not that I don't want to hear them, it's the fact that the US congress has already made its decisions re new laws and has already set things in motion, and no amount of explanations from the Canadian gov't or individuals is going to have any meaningful effect in changing US laws after the fact. Well for the sake of accuracy I'll take that back - a victory by Stephen Harper next month might cause the US congress to reconsider new US / Canadian border laws on the basis that the Canadian Conservative party might actually care about actively stemming the potential Canadian islamic fundamentalist threat, but knowledgeable people on both sides of the border give that election result 'a snowball's chance in hell'.
For a fact there are a lot more Canadian dancers trying to work in US clubs than vice versa ... and for a fact there are a lot more US dollars spent by Americans in Canadian border clubs than vice versa, and any amount of political commentary will not change these basic economic facts. Also for a fact heightened US border security and heightened US citizenship / visa verification is going to have a lot more effect on Canadian dancers wishing to dance in US clubs than vice versa, and heightened border security is going to slow the flow of American dollars into Canadian border clubs to a much greater degree than the flow of Canadian dollars into US clubs.
Political Poo got closed for a reason - political arguments can never be resolved on an internet forum. However, there are a few cases like this one (and also anti-dance club ordinances and a few others) where the FINANCIAL effects on dancers and clubs originate with political decisions/conditions. If the mere mention of the financial effects is going to invariably lead to a political confrontation, then these primarily financial discussions are going to wind up being 'taboo' subjects - which is a much more damaging form of censorship than the one you accused me of.
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Re: things to get tougher for non-US dancers trying to work in US clubs ...
Well, in the past, US and Canada have had a nice warm relationship.
Excuse the Spanish phrase here,
Mi casa es su casa, yeah, my house is your house, and nearly my money is your money,
and my people are your people, and on and on and on.
Things were so similar that, it was wondered why have two separate governments?
Granted, the situation was weird. You could go from one country to another
without passports, nothing. And nobody said nothing.
And outside observers would say, my that is such a nice relaitonship between
US and Canada, why is not the same inclination passed to Mexico?
And defenders of the status quo would cite, similar culture (?), similar language
(again ?), and racial and ethnic origin(????).
Everybody forgot that they are actually two separate countries,
two different governmnets, and people although similar, is different as
US is different frm UK, Australia, NZ, or Belize.
It is sad, but the events of 9/11 really poiinted out the danger of such a
lax attitude towards the security of the US.
And as far as whether, clubs would dry out, it probably will.
Oh, yes, there will be a reduction in number, because the Americans
which used to come over will no longer be there in force as they were
in the past.
Now, one wonders whether, the increase restriction of travel
would have on Mexican nightclubs.
Or has anyboody considered what that would do to Mexican strippers?
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Re: things to get tougher for non-US dancers trying to work in US clubs ...
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Now, one wonders whether, the increase restriction of travel
would have on Mexican nightclubs.
Or has anyboody considered what that would do to Mexican strippers?
Actually, a large number of Mexican dancers (#2 after Romanian dancers) took advantage of the comparatively lax Canadian work visa program, submitted nude pictures of themselves to the Canadian embassy in Mexico City, and relocated to Canada to work in Canadian strip clubs !
However, this controversial work visa program for foreign strippers eventually drew international criticism and was ended about a year ago. One of the major reasons cited for ending the stripper visa program was that foreign strippers were staying in Canada illegally and working as prostitutes after their 6 month work visas expired and Canadian clubs were forced to fire them. Another major reason cited was that there are supposedly only so many Canadian visa slots available, such that giving work visa preference to foreign strippers was limiting immigration possibilities for foreign nurses and girls with more 'desireable' professions.
In regard to increased US / Mexican border security and its effect on Mexican dancers, the major negative effect will be that mexican girls currently working illegally in US border clubs are likely to eventually be caught up with. However, Mexican illegal immigration issues have traditionally been treated in an extremely lax fashion, Mexican illegal work north of the US border is a deeply embedded part of the business model in US border states etc. As a result, one would suspect that from a 'real world' standpoint, Canadian dancers working illegally in New York clubs are at much higher risk of drawing INS attention than Mexican dancers working illegally in Texas clubs.
As far as border clubs on the Mexican side, I'm not even going to begin commenting on that aspect of the ''''dancing'''' business ...
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