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Morgan Stanley fires bankers for visiting strip club
You can find .
We can all count on some people to tell us how this spells the end of strip clubs and stripping as we know it, but outside of cities like New York and San Francisco (the major i-banking centers in the U.S.) it's not so important. Still, the times they are a-changin'. What a drag.
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Re: Morgan Stanley fires bankers for visiting strip club
Wow. Are they going to fire them if they go to, say, a swingers' club? Or Hooters?
And what about the female bankers--will this apply to them, too?
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Re: Morgan Stanley fires bankers for visiting strip club
I'm not sure. When I worked in i-banking, it was always ME who was suggesting that we go to stripclubs on Friday night, and the men who refused to go! Just five years ago, Credit Suisse gave out Scores Diamond Dollars to high-level employees.
I do wonder if it's equal opportunity - for example. if my client wanted to see The Thunder from Down Under and I obliged her, would I be fired?
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Re: Morgan Stanley fires bankers for visiting strip club
I think it is when it is business related. Not just recreationally. So I definitely think a swingers club would be out. I would assume Hooters as well.
And there is a point - when men are doing their business in places that might be called hostile or inhospitable to women, it is discriminating against the female employees. All the women here who deal with or plan to deal with clients imagine A) that you are not a stripper, so the strip is not your mothership and B) that these clients don't know you're a stripper, so they are not likely to think of stripclubs as your mothership. Does this impact your job, your performance etc.? Discuss.
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Re: Morgan Stanley fires bankers for visiting strip club
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Originally Posted by Jenny
All the women here who deal with or plan to deal with clients imagine A) that you are not a stripper, so the strip is not your mothership and B) that these clients don't know you're a stripper, so they are not likely to think of stripclubs as your mothership. Does this impact your job, your performance etc.? Discuss.
I don't understand what this means. Mothership - huh?
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Re: Morgan Stanley fires bankers for visiting strip club
Just a turn of phrase - a place in which you feel very at home. When I was in Guam I worked 6 nights a week; the entire time I was there I had 2 Fridays off. One Friday a girlfriend and I both got it off, and we went out. We wanted to do something BESIDES go to a strip club (since we were, for all intents and purposes, living in one). But weirdly enough we didn't have any fun until we found ourselves another strip club to hang out in. She called it our mothership.
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Re: Morgan Stanley fires bankers for visiting strip club
we can all thank the female employees at morgan stanley (along with the EEOC) for those firings. morgan stanley had to do what was in their financial best interest. i really hate those weak women who are always acting like they're the "victims" of something just so that they can sue.
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Re: Morgan Stanley fires bankers for visiting strip club
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Originally Posted by Loli
we can all thank the female employees at morgan stanley (along with the EEOC) for those firings. morgan stanley had to do what was in their financial best interest. i really hate those weak women who are always acting like they're the "victims" of something just so that they can sue.
Christian Curry isn't female...
It seems that as with most threads on Stripperweb, this will evolve into an argument.
When I worked at a very large and prominent brokerage firm, the firm's top producer had a Hustler calendar with graphic, gynecological detail prominently displayed in his office. I complained. It was removed. I guess I'm weak.
I think it's a very situational issue. Generally, in the financial industry, you do what the client wants. If there was a group of women colleagues that would be excluded, then it's not acceptable. Nor would it be acceptable for male i-bankers to congregate at the water cooler the next day and loudly talk about Bambi's sweet tits.
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Re: Morgan Stanley fires bankers for visiting strip club
Loli, have you worked in banking? I had a very similar experience to smartcookie and the reason a lot of these "weak" women sue is because finance is still a boy's club of the crudest order at times. Sexual harrassment is a very real problem in the workplace; dancers forget sometimes because strip clubs are full of sexual innuendo, though there most of it is consensual.
Finance guys have been dwindling in clubs as expense accounts have been tightened. However, if all parties consent to go to the club and are their of their own volition, it shouldn't be that much of a problem.
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Re: Morgan Stanley fires bankers for visiting strip club
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Originally Posted by smartcookie
Christian Curry isn't female...
It seems that as with most threads on Stripperweb, this will evolve into an argument.
I promise I won't argue. I will just disagree. I'm kidding. But I will be very polite. Unusually so, even.
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I think it's a very situational issue. Generally, in the financial industry, you do what the client wants. If there was a group of women colleagues that would be excluded, then it's not acceptable. Nor would it be acceptable for male i-bankers to congregate at the water cooler the next day and loudly talk about Bambi's sweet tits.
This would obviously be ideal - if everyone could just be reasonable and courteous. I think the reason "policies" come in though, is because people can not always be "trusted" to behave reasonably - and indeed, many have different ideas on what reasonable behaviour is. In a thread under the Lounge Sh0t talks about how much misogynist jokes enhance and improve the work environment, and obviously doesn't think that the offense taken by women employees is important. Put him in a management position in such a company, and what do you have? Strict policy against this behaviour or an environment that is rampantly discriminatory. (Indeed - your example of the Hustler calendar. And I don't think you're weak)
And it would be interesting to look at how much business is done in strip clubs or environments similarly unhospitable to women. I would hypothesize that it is a great deal more than that done at "Thunder in Down Under." (That's just a hypothosis - I have done no study on this) So one would have to consider if there is a... institutionalized discrimination (?) there, and how many and how much business men are being excluded from.
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Re: Morgan Stanley fires bankers for visiting strip club
I do agree that if business is being done in stripclubs, then yes, it is alienating and discriminatory because it's being done in a male-dominated environment; just like business being done on the golf course. And I don't have a problem with a business forbidding that its employees entertain clients in such circumstances, to be quite honest, because it could make female employees (and, conceivably, gay male employees, or ones who are uptight, like SCs coworkers) really uncomfortable to have to either experience that kind of environment or be excluded from it.
However, what they do on their own time should be another story. And if they're going to exclude strip clubs, from the list of acceptable work outings, I think they should also include games of golf, squash, etc. that tend to take place in single-gender dominated environments.
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Re: Morgan Stanley fires bankers for visiting strip club
It comes down to two points.
#1- investers money should be spent on investments, not investing in the local beauties (sorry girls!). It looks bad for business if you are spending a lot of cash that on a non-necessity.
#2 - As mentioned before, the sexual harassment angle. Whether it is right or not there are people who will complain where they can and claiming sexual harassment because they were excluded is one of those points. A company in this day and age is commiting suicide if they condone a man dominated excursion that historically excludes women.
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Re: Morgan Stanley fires bankers for visiting strip club
There is always business being done in stripclubs, but a lot of it is not the variety that Morgan Stanley deals with, or at least is not officially approved. And in today's male-dominated business environment (though women are making tremendous strides, the majority of major business decisions are still made by men), a hell of a lot of deals are made in the kinds of male-dominated environments SW describes.
Personally, I would prefer not to negotiate a drawing (or any other) contract with giant blow-ups of dicks all over the wall--but I could probably ignore them if the deal was good enough. The deal would have to be phenomenally good for me to go to a Le bare club or Chippendales to conclude it.
A defense could conceivably be made that if they are taking clients there, they could just be relaxing after the conclusion of a successful deal--and maybe no women were involved anyway.
But we all know that if it keeps happening with those and/or other clients, it cannot be separated from the deals made--and how women might be being either excluded deliberately, or by manipulation, or are if taken along being put at a possibly severe disadvantage.
I have dealt with a number of women who were fairly successful in real estate. One of them told me that someone she had dealings with liked going to stripclubs and had taken her along a few times. She said he looked like an idiot drooling all over the women, lol. Since she was a very attractive woman and was laughing about it, I don't think she was just being vindictive.
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Re: Morgan Stanley fires bankers for visiting strip club
Actually I don't know why we are discussing this. From reading the article, MS seems to be over reacting to some allegations that they have discriminatory practice against women. Oh, please, cannot believe such practices still do exist?
Well, all right, sirs and madam, I will tell you my feelings.
If I had to have major surgery, I would prefer a doctor who does not go to SC.
If I had cross a deep gulch, I would prefer an engineer who does not go to SC.
If I had an impending law suit, I would prefer a lawyer who does not go to SC.
Similarly, I do not want somebody who is handling my money, go to SC.
Yeah, after reading this, you all will tell to get the hell out of the SC.
No, actually, I love my job, best damn job I have ever had in my short existence.
However, seeing so many lax attitudes, and predatory men who are socially misadjusted, leads me to seriously doubt their competence.
Hey, if a guy was sexually fulfilled, had a good marriage, no problems, he would not need me. I would be out of business and broke.
I know it would be a big jump for me to conclude from this that if one is not competant in obtaining sexual satisfication from the life he has chosen and has to resort to outside sexual stimulus, then he is not competant in what he does for a living.
I am not trying to be a troll here. The board is here to allow people to express their views. And I have expressed them. Thanks.
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Re: Morgan Stanley fires bankers for visiting strip club
Well, there are a lot of extremely competent professional males who go to stripclubs--especially the better ones. After all, stripclubs can be expensive, and though having a lot of cash to blow on getting lapdances does not mean you are competent, the odds are fairly good it might be so.
And not all of them will turn into drooling idiots, lol...
Similarly, if my attorney, who is an extremely competent and charming middle-aged female, wanted to go blow a bunch of cash on Rocky at Le Bare, I say more power to her--but I'm not going to meet her there to discuss my mother's will, or that idiot that tried to sue me a while back for permanent injuries his wife received from a dime-sized scratch on her bumper (my car slipped out of gear and gently rolled into hers).
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Re: Morgan Stanley fires bankers for visiting strip club
Not disagreeing with you, sir.
But drooling, like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And plenty of them have come pretty darn close. No, it is not a confidence builder.
Yes, makes me wonder some times. Thanks.
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Re: Morgan Stanley fires bankers for visiting strip club
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Originally Posted by lucy801
If I had to have major surgery, I would prefer a doctor who does not go to SC.
If I had cross a deep gulch, I would prefer an engineer who does not go to SC.
If I had an impending law suit, I would prefer a lawyer who does not go to SC.
Similarly, I do not want somebody who is handling my money, go to SC.
How could you possibly know if your doctor, engineer, lawyer or CFP goes to strip clubs or not? Do you ask when booking the appointment?
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Re: Morgan Stanley fires bankers for visiting strip club
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Originally Posted by yoda57us
How could you possibly know if your doctor, engineer, lawyer or CFP goes to strip clubs or not? Do you ask when booking the appointment?
Never asked, they just tell me.
Every time somebody tells me that, it impresses me.
It really does, sometimes I get carried away talking to these people, they are so interesting, and ususally spend more time BSing with them.
Maybe I am holding these people to higher moral standards, but that is just me.
I realize they are human like everybody else.
Yeah, baby, the way of all flesh.
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Re: Morgan Stanley fires bankers for visiting strip club
This sounds remarkably similar to companies that are firing smokers and fatties. Companies are getting a little to accustomed to saying what their employees can and cannot do. Heck, I even heard of a company that makes their employees go to church (or their worship service of choice.)
I don't think anyone has any business in other people's private life.
The company certainly CAN say how thier clients are to be entertained and NOT entertained though. But if they are saying their employees cannot go to strip clubs on their own time - then that is reaching to far.
I hope these brokers sue the shit out of Morgan Stanley.
Some of the younger posters, growing up in authoritarian schools where aspirin is a crime, unfortunately appear to be more willing to let others muddle in thier business. An unfortunate side effect of today's society.
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Re: Morgan Stanley fires bankers for visiting strip club
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Originally Posted by Deogol
This sounds remarkably similar to companies that are firing smokers and fatties. Companies are getting a little to accustomed to saying what their employees can and cannot do. Heck, I even heard of a company that makes their employees go to church (or their worship service of choice.)
I don't think anyone has any business in other people's private life.
I agree this sort of thing is getting out of hand, most notably the firing of beverage company employees because they were caught drinking a competitor's product on their own time.
http://www.nbc5.com/news/4191531/det...82&dppid=65172
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/US/North....pepsi.firing/
http://www.windsortribune.com/module...ticle&sid=2773
But in case anyone didn't see it...
From the article:
The bankers, all male, had visited a strip club with clients while attending a Morgan Stanley conference for technology investors in the US.
...I'm not sure whether this particular situation constututes "on the clock" or not. I guess it does if they signed some sort of morals clause upon being hired.
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Re: Morgan Stanley fires bankers for visiting strip club
They were there with company clients, while at a work related event. It was clearly on the clock.
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Re: Morgan Stanley fires bankers for visiting strip club
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he company certainly CAN say how thier clients are to be entertained and NOT entertained though.
Please realize that in the upscale 'show clubs' in most very large cities, a major portion of customer spending originates with business entertainment ... i.e. stockbrokers footing the tab for a wild night in the club for some of their 'whales', with the brokerage firm writing off the expense. Very rich customers do not spend $10 grand in a club in a single night out of their own pockets - that's how they got to be very rich in the first place ! This is a very bad precedent.
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Re: Morgan Stanley fires bankers for visiting strip club
It's bad for the female exotic dance population in New York. It's not bad for women in the businesses in question. It's certainly not bad for women's equality in the work place.
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Re: Morgan Stanley fires bankers for visiting strip club
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Originally Posted by Jenny
It's bad for the female exotic dance population in New York. It's not bad for women in the businesses in question. It's certainly not bad for women's equality in the work place.
Perhaps ! However, ask yourself why these 'whales' opened/kept their brokerage accounts with Morgan Stanley et al, rather than saving a ton of money on commissions and trading through Schwab or E-Trade. You got it ... the excuse to come to Manhattan once a year and party like it's 1999 at the broker's expense. If Morgan Stanley's directive serves as a precedent and puts an end to the nights on the town, how long do you think the 'whales' will keep paying $50 a trade commissions versus $7 ? And when that happens, both the men AND women brokers at Morgan Stanley will be equally short of clients, along with the Manhattan show club dancers that depended on entertainment expense write-offs for a good chunk of their earnings.
When seeking equality, one must specify what lengths one is willing to go to in order to achieve it. If for example, male brokers at Morgan Stanley have been averaging $200k a year in commissions, while female brokers at Morgan Stanley have only been averaging $100k a year in commissions, what purpose is served if equality is achieved in that both male and female brokers at Morgan Stanley now average $50k in the future ?
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Re: Morgan Stanley fires bankers for visiting strip club
As it happens, though that isn't anyone's problem except Morgan Stanley. It is well established that a company cannot viably claim that it is good business to be discriminatory (yes, even in New York). Nor is supporting Manhatten exotic dancers a good reason to keep inequality in another workplace (sorry ladies - luv ya, but it's not).
Plus which - I am not a businessy person, so this is really not the kind of thing I know, but are you really telling me that people pay that differential solely because of an annual trip to a strip club? That doesn't sound smart. I have difficulty believing that.