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Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor
Quote:
Originally Posted by
poisonkitty89
Hi Stuart
Very interesting series of articles. I am 18 and just starting as a dancer, while I go to college (luckily i live in a place where college education is for free). I was told that mutual funds are a good investment idea. I was also told ING (the local branch) could offer me a good passive income. Do you have any advice in choosing mutual funds?
Ximena
Ximena, if you don't mind:
Before you decide to invest, track down 1 month of every expense you have, including discretionary spending, housing and transport costs, food, clothing, insurance, TAXES, debts, etc. Now ensure that you have at least 6 months for those expenses saved in your ING account, with liquidity.
Do you have this done? Once you have, then you can start thinking about investments......at 18, unless you have a great deal of cash to lump into a nest egg, you aren't going to generate enough interest/dividends to create a passive income. More than likely. I could be wrong though....
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Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor
^^^ That is excellent advice and is exactly where everyone should start with spare cash - building an emergency fund.
There is plenty of discussion within the finance industry as to how much money should be used / held aside in case of emergencies. Some think 3 months, others think 6.
However, in a profession such as yours, where you are most probably self employed and work in a physical environment where the slightest little injury could mean weeks off work and zero income - you are better setting more aside rather than less.
It could only take one slip in those platforms and a twisted ankle and you might be sat at home for weeks.
If in doubt, take the more conservative choice. Or listen to Katrine above - she knows her stuff.
Best wishes and good luck,
Stuart
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Re: Budgeting and Saving
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Originally Posted by
StuartL
...the old 'different envelopes' routine will probably work just fine. Have one envelope for your taxes, one for your rent and bills, etc. Housewives have been doing this for generations, if it worked then, it'll work now....
OMFG I totally use envelopes for my money! That's so weird, I thought it was just something silly that I do.
I figure I work four days per week, and divide my bills by however many days until it's due. Then whatever number that is, I put away every day. For example, I have an envelope for my car payment, and every night I work, in goes $26. By the time the car payment is due, I've got it ready, and it's not a whole nights work, it's something small I took from every day... ya know?
I have separate envelopes for rent, car payment, and savings. I put like $20 plus whatever 'small bills' I have in my wallet, and the rest goes into my 'blue' envelope which I put in the checking account for all the small bills.. My boyfriend pays the bills, though. I've been in charge of it since we lived together and I always fuck it up. But since he's taken over, bills are caught up and always paid on time.
My biggest problem is that I don't save enough. And I'm totally aware of this, but I don't know why it's so fucking hard for me to save money. Every night I come home, I put 15% of what I made in an envelope. But somehow, that envelope always gets spent before it makes it to the bank. And whenever I've had money saved up in the bank, SOMETHING comes up, some emergency, and it's gone. If it's not one thing it's a-fucking-nother. That's my life story.
I've seen on the boards, a lot of girls are saving 50%, and that's just not possible for me. I've got student loans and credit cards that make that impossible for me. I just wish I could find some realistic number that I needed to save every month, instead of a percentage or whatever. And just put it away like it was a bill I need to pay.:shrug:
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Re: Budgeting and Saving
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PrettyCurlieQ
My boyfriend pays the bills, though. I've been in charge of it since we lived together and I always fuck it up. But since he's taken over, bills are caught up and always paid on time.
Thank goodness for boys eh...?
Re your savings, there are limits. To be fair, even in your profession, the number of people able to save 50% is going to be pretty rare. Don't let that put you off trying though!
The reality is that within the finance industry everyone recommends something like saving 10% of monthly income. We don't recommend that because it is what you should do though! We recommend it because if we told the truth, we'd just get laughed at as unreasonable and in a dream world.
You need to be saving 10% plus of your after tax salary. In truth, you want to be aiming for perhaps 25% - but that is tough for most people.
Normally, that would sound ridiculous, but your potential career is much shorter than most others, so you need to be saving up if you can.
Best wishes and Merry Christmas,
Stuart
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Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor
I recommend 20%. That's the average number I've found that clients need to save in order to reach their goals. Some can manage well with less, others need more.
Remember, money allotted to debt isn't considered savings, its just an additional committed expense.
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Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor
Well I read something in a magazine about saving 5K in a year. That may not be much for most people, but I have zero savings right now. Actually, I have like $46 in savings right now. Pathetic. I figured out that if I work four days a week, and put away $20 after every shift (that's how I pay my bills and stuff anyways..), I'll have almost 4K at the end of the year, and that seems like a decent amount considering I've got none.
Because I've spent all the savings I've ever attempted to build, right now, I'm in the mindset that anything is better than nothing. Is that the wrong way to think about it?
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Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PrettyCurlieQ
Well I read something in a magazine about saving 5K in a year. That may not be much for most people, but I have zero savings right now. Actually, I have like $46 in savings right now. Pathetic. I figured out that if I work four days a week, and put away $20 after every shift (that's how I pay my bills and stuff anyways..), I'll have almost 4K at the end of the year, and that seems like a decent amount considering I've got none.
Because I've spent all the savings I've ever attempted to build, right now, I'm in the mindset that anything is better than nothing. Is that the wrong way to think about it?
Its not wrong CurlieQ, it just may not be accurate for your personal situation. Read up on the thread about "How Much it costs to Live."
$5K just may not be enough. You need to calculate your own personal expenses versus your own average earnings. $5K isn't really enough for most. That's less than the cost of an overnight hospital stay!
Keep in mind, as a dancer, you really should be saving much more than the average wage earner considering lack of benefits, job security, and shortness of career.
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Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor
Hey everyone,
I found this site a few days ago and have been engrossed ever since, so I thought I'd add it here for you all to check out too...
It is a trading site, rather than finance or investment, so it is a little more 'nichey' than others found here, but well worth a read all the same.
http://www.swing-trade-stocks.com
Hope you find it useful.
Best wishes,
Stuart
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Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor
Ok. So I might be about to unleash the closet geek in me - we all have one! - and I work in finance... But I have just figured out how to use del.icio.us to share bookmarks. So I am only two years late on this.
Anyway, it means that rather than keep listing useful sites I find, I can just put them all in one place and they are available for everyone. As far as I can tell, only one person can add to the list, but I may be wrong about this.
I also haven't really got as far as properly understanding how these can be shared and how people can add themselves to the lists. But if you know and want to join or share, please do. The more the merrier...
Best wishes,
Stuart
About stocks and investment:
http://del.icio.us/StockExchangeSecrets
About the other topic I write a lot about, Identity Theft Prevention:
http://del.icio.us/CombatIdentityTheft
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Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor
the ultimate "safe" is our german shepard. he's also my personal escort to and from car to door at work. we often have loads of cash, in envelopes in our house, and often dont lock the door. we do have an 8' privacy fence surrounding yard (neked sunbathing!) and i dare anyone to "Go Ahead - Make My Day" as our gate signs with his pic on them say. plus he's a great snuggler!
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Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Melonie
If a dancer actually has total financial discipline, the approach with the best 'bang for the buck' is to dance full time right out of high school and up to your mid to late twenties.
This isn't the best idea for everyone--it doesn't take into account the individual person. There are other reasons why this might not be a good option, even if you're disciplined and great with money.
If I could go back and do only one thing over in life, I would have done exactly the opposite of what you advocate. I would have stayed in school and finished right away (dancing part-time to support myself and pay tuition), and then worked in my degree field part-time while dancing and banking at night.
Your way will work wonderfully for some people, but for me this approach has failed miserably...b/c I didn't take into account the fact that if I had my degree (a.k.a. if I had other options for jobs that would pay real money), then dancing wouldn't be a miserable chore b/c I wouldn't feel trapped in it.
When I was in school, I made literally triple what I make now since I left. Because school a) gave me a welcome counter-balance to the club and b) allowed me to ENJOY dancing, rather than dread it and feel like I have to do it. When customers were horrible, it never got to me. I could just smile and walk away, thinking "fuck you, I don't need you or your money. I don't have to put up with any bullshit, b/c I'm in school and by next year I'll be able to get a high-paying job that doesn't require me to prostrate myself for your lousy $2." And obviously I made more $$ when I was relaxed and enjoying it and having that "I don't need to put up with bullshit" attitude. That attitude automatically brought me the most well-behaved, respectful, spending customers and weeded out most of the low-lifes.
After I left school (thinking "it would make so much more sense to just dance full time and bank everything I make")...my earnings went to SHIT because now I felt trapped in it. Just something else to consider from the other side of the coin.
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Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor
Yup Picaresque, that's what does tend to happen. But in Melonie's defense, its an "ideal" situation financially for those who can swing it.
Actually, Melonie, I am curious if you still stand firmly behind this. Given all of the new laws, ordinances, bans, and scandals, do you still believe this would be the best course of action for a young girl with tons of discipline?
I believe this girl would have to travel extensively to parts of the country that are lucrative and profitable. Texas is slowly becoming a really bad place to strip. Not that it was ever amazing. We don't really have VIP-timepay arrangements, but there used to be decent easy money here.
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Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor
Hi everyone,
In light of the recent action in the banking markets and the seriousness of what might occur should a 'biggie' go under, I have put together two pages to help us all prepare.
I know that this will go down well with the doom and gloomers...
http://www.stockexchangesecrets.com/...-collapse.html
http://www.stockexchangesecrets.com/banking-crisis.html
Best wishes,
Stuart
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Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor
^^^ good stuff Stuart. Let's hope your ideas are never put to the test. However, it's better to be prepared and NOT need to use your preparations than the other way around !!! Along these lines, you may have seen in another thread that I just purchased a greenhouse, and plan on growing a huge surplus of food this summer !!! On top of this, I'm also an advocate of holding some amount of physical precious metals. I would be buying more silver right now if the small customer dealers actually had any available for sale (a fact that is ominous in and of itself).
On the other subject i.e. the approach of a girl becoming a 'super-stripper' right out of high school, let me begin by repeating the original disclaimer ... this approach is a horrible idea for any girl who lacks the discipline, both in work ethic and in money management, to do what's necessary in order to make this a success. With that said ...
A - fresh degrees are 'worth' more than older degrees ... and particularly so in fields where technology changes rapidly. Therefore the 'value' difference between a girl who receives her degree at age 22 and continues to dance full time until age 30, and a girl who dances full time until age 26 and obtains her degree at age 30, can be significant.
B - the 'strip club' business is indeed in a general declining trend. However this also predicts that the available dancer earnings potential 4 years from now won't be as good as it is right now. Therefore a girl who makes a full time effort right now is likely to earn more than a girl who doesn't begin to make a full time effort until they have finished college 4 years down the road
C - with the 'super-stripper' approach, yes it is almost a mandatory requirement that the girl be willing to work on the road. The reasons for this are several - among them seasonality of northern versus southern clubs, being able to follow a lucrative trend (i.e. moving between clubs to follow the nascar race circuit to pick just one example), being able to 'escape' locations that have taken a turn for the worse due to new laws being passed, etc.
D - the 'time value of money' i.e. compounding of interest income favors money that is earned sooner than later. Thus a girl who is able to earn and save / invest $100k per year immediately, versus a girl who completes college now - who racks up college loans - who starts dancing after graduation, and who doesn't start to save / invest until after she has been dancing for a year after graduation ( first year earnings used to pay off student loans ), is much greater than the $500k difference in apparent earnings. Over a five year time period, that first year's $100k investment turns into $ 130k, the second year's $100k investment turns into $122k, the third year's $100k investment turns into $114k, and the fourth year's $100k investment turns into$106k. So the apparent $500k difference is actually $130+$122+114+106+100 = $572k thanks to compound interest. That's 9 months worth of full time dancing that the girl who completed college first will have to do that the girl who became a full time stripper right out of high school will NOT have to do in order to arrive at the same place financially speaking.
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Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Melonie
^^^ good stuff Stuart. Let's hope your ideas are never put to the test. However, it's better to be prepared and NOT need to use your preparations than the other way around !!!
I showed those pages to a pal of mine and he submitted them to reddit and then sent me a link through. The comments from reddit readers were all along the same theme - "I'd buy a gun and some ammo".
Crikes...
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Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor
Another good question is what percentage of your income should go into savings?
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Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor
Without trying to sound trite - that depends upon you...
The financial services industry generally recommends people to be saving 10% of their monthly wages. I would suggest that for a worthwhile retirement - excluding anything else they may wish to save for - 10% is probably a little light.
However, in an industry like dancing where retirement looms much, much earlier than elsewhere, 10% per month is barely doing a thing.
Obviously, this type of advice depends upon the individual. If you are dancing to pay your way through college and have well formed career plans, perhaps saving doesn't matter much at all. But if this is the career and the future looks very uncertain in several years time, saving should be very important.
If you fall into the latter category, I'd suggest that you need to saving at least 30%. That probably sounds unrealistic. But so does surviving for months or years whilst you look for an alternative career and have nothing in the bank!!
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Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor
Quote:
Originally Posted by
StuartL
As independent business people, I wonder just how many of you have studied business or finance in any way. Can you imagine the difference it might make to your income if you did a little reading and put into practice a couple of the ideas you had?
As I said, it's just something to think about.
Best wishes,
Stuart
Personally, I certainly have studied finance on my own for the past several years, and it has paid off in spades. I still continue buying books and magazines on finance to stay updated and learn new strategies and options, and forsaking all the mindless celebrity publications. I am proud to say that I very slowly started and have grown my portfolio, with many more goals to go. I'm thinking about dancing again alongside the modelling work I do under my corporation (more tax benefits) to add to my still-quite-volatile income stream, now that I am armed with this knowledge and strategy. I am a university dropout who will be partnering up with a friend's real estate investment firm once I hit my personal target number for "retirement" from entertainment. Without going too much into detail regarding my own specifics, as this IS the internet after all, I certainly and highly recommend putting in some extra effort into taking the initiative in becoming educated in personal money management, and placing a plan into effect.
Not everyone needs to be a Wall Street geek to succeed. If a person can find a quality financial expert, preferably through reliable referral, they are making a big step towards freedom. Nonetheless, it is still important to be quite familiar with the terms/processes relating to what is going on with their investment, because being uninformed is how so many celebrities have been ripped off by their money managers.
Thank you for coming on the board and encouraging people to be well-informed about their money and its handling. Paired with action, knowledge really is power. 8)
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Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor
I'm in complete agreement with the last post. Finding a credible financial adviser, and not just a "fund seller", is not an easy task. I would ask around. If you have any family or friends that invest, ask them who they use and what kind of return they are getting. Ideally, you want to average 7-12% per year. If all else fails, ask your bank. A bank makes money by investing your money.
As far as all the tax comments are concerned: I've been paying my taxes every year for the past 4 years. My accountant gave me a little tip. I only have to claim what the government can prove. This includes my bank accounts, credit cards, loans, etc. Anything on paper. Sadly, your deductions are included in this category. If you pay for all of your deductibles (clothes, make-up, etc) with cash, then in order to claim them you have to claim the cash you used to pay for them.
I'm a HUGE advocate for investing. It's a lot easier than most dancers make it out to be. I simply don't keep all of my money in one place/account, and I designate a use for each account. Example: One is for bills, the other is for investing/IRA, another is for vacations. I always keep 10% of my daily income for personal expenses like lunch with a friend or a new outfit.
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Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor
I just did some quick calculations. I save at least 27% each month, half in my savings account, half in my Roth IRA.
I try not to touch my savings account, but I may have to use it in an emergency. My Roth is my nest-egg. I maxed it out last year (when I opened it) and I'm 1000 away from maxing it out this year, after which I'll start saving for next year's max out.
I have an accountant who specializes in dancers and small business taxes, and he's wonderful. I'm going to be paying a lot more in taxes this year because I've been working a lot, but hopefully two years of tax records like that and I'll be able to buy a house! :D
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Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor
Questions:
If girls claim they are making less than they are, is there a higher risk that the IRS will audit or investigate them?
If you are a dancer and you are going by the books and paying a lot of money in taxes, how much do you get back when you get your tax return? (Is it really worth it)
^^ Is it a considerable amount if you are single and claiming a dependent child?
Additionally, if you have a child that you are claiming, do you deduct their "value" from the amount you send to the IRS?
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Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Laurisa
If girls claim they are making less than they are, is there a higher risk that the IRS will audit or investigate them?
If you are a dancer and you are going by the books and paying a lot of money in taxes, how much do you get back when you get your tax return? (Is it really worth it)
I doubt the risk of being audited is much higher, but the risk of them penalising you if caught is greatly increased. Why risk it? Most accountants will be able to give you a long list of deductions that you can take advantage of over the course of a year and therefore keep your tax bill legally to an acceptable level.
Normally, if you play within the rules there are many items that you buy often that can be used as deductions and will reduce the overall bill. I'd seek professional tax help, it will almost certainly be worth it.
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Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Laurisa
Questions:
If girls claim they are making less than they are, is there a higher risk that the IRS will audit or investigate them?
If you are a dancer and you are going by the books and paying a lot of money in taxes, how much do you get back when you get your tax return? (Is it really worth it)
^^ Is it a considerable amount if you are single and claiming a dependent child?
Additionally, if you have a child that you are claiming, do you deduct their "value" from the amount you send to the IRS?
underreporting can be tracked, even if you pay primarily in cash/money orders, if someone really wants the tax money.
as for 'getting back' tax money, it varies. if you are getting money back, you are one of the reasons the US deficit is increasing-- falling tax revenues. if not, you are one of the things keep the US from completely cratering.
unrelated to nationalist sentiments, if you are mostly thinking of taxes as a situation where you get a big lump sum rather than an expense that may occasionally be a windfall instead, you aren't thinking of money in a way that will allow you to save enough to generate passive income.
yeahyeah we all shouldn't pay tax or whatever, but if you aren't trying to 'get money back', you will have more money than obsessing about deductions.
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Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Laurisa
Questions: ...
If you are a dancer and you are going by the books and paying a lot of money in taxes, how much do you get back when you get your tax return? (Is it really worth it)
The refund you get upon filing your year end return depends on how much you paid in excess of your tax liability. A well planned return will result in a minimal refund as this is money that you are loaning to the US Treasury at zero percent interest. Believe me, you can make better use of the money. Even depositing it in a savings account will get you 1% interest, an infinitely higher rate of return.
HTH
Z
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Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miabella
if you are getting money back, you are one of the reasons the US deficit is increasing-- falling tax revenues. if not, you are one of the things keep the US from completely cratering.
No, you are not contributing to the deficit. Over payments are not counted as income or tax receipts, just as refunds are not treated as expenses. An over payment of taxes constitutes a loan to the US Treasury, nothing more.
HTH
Z