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$200 dollar fine as an independant contractor? $100 if late? Strange contract rules..
My girlfriend has been working at a strip club here in tennessee for about 3 months now. Everything has been great but there are some peculiar rules that have come up and i'm getting frustrated with the way things are run.
They told her when she started working that she is an Independant contractor.
She signed some sort of rules agreement that she doesn't have a copy of. (looking to get one...)
We have another form here at the house that she was given to take home. It doesn't have a place to sign and she says it's different from the one she signed.
She worked straight, four days a week, (thurs, fri, sat, sun) 12 weeks, 8 hour shifts, from 6:30 pm to 3:00 am, while going to school five days a week, with classes from 9:00 am to 2:00pm.
She was NEVER late and didn't miss a single day of work.
- Saturday before final exams for school the manager said that they would no longer be open on sunday and that she was supposed to work tuesday instead.
- Sunday night while studying for final exams she realized she would not be able to work tuesday night and get adequate study time and sleep for the exam on wednesday.
- Monday she called the club manager and told him she would not be able to make it tuesday night because of final exams for school on wednesday. (technically i don't think she even has to call since she's an independant contractor)
- Thursday when the end of the night came and she had made money, the manager charged her $200 for not showing up on tuesday. She tried to argue it but they said it didn't matter.
The "dance fee" each night for her to get in the door is $40, so they basically had her pay the club $30 dollars an hour to work there.
Just last week she wasn't feeling very well (getting over the common cold) and accidentally slept through her alarm. She would have been about an hour late coming in. She called to tell them she was on her way, but yet again, they said it didn't matter and that she would be charged a $100 fine for being late to work.
In the "club rules" it says that if she is absent it will only be excused by a doctor's note. (yet another breach of independant contractor agreement i'm pretty sure) So she took her cough to the walk-in clinic and paid a 12 dollar co-pay instead of a 100 dollar fine.
Does any of this sound normal???
i'm going to go around talking to managers of the other three strip clubs in town, and deja vu in nashville. The county here mandated that all dancers now have liscenses to work, but for some reason this one club says they don't have to follow that rule.
I also know for a fact that the manager has a drug problem and sells drugs as well. No biggie to me, but if he's extorting the girls for his habit then that's a big problem.
Also, i call the club and anonymously asked for the manager and said i was going over my girlfriends contract and, he cut me off. "Our girls aren't under contract!" he said. I replied that i was holding the agreement in my hand right now and he said "we don't contract girls!" and hung up the phone on me.
I'm starting to get a little pissed and i'm going to get to the bottom of this, whatever it takes. I'm not mad that it's a strip club. I'm mad that it's being run by a bunch of idiots.
yes, my girlfriend is in complete agreement with me. This job is not a necessity for her.
here are a few of the rules in the contract:
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1. Management reserves the right to send a performer home, access a fine/penalty, suspend or terminate your services for any violation of the abc theater club rules or the Independant Contractor Agreement. (which is what i think we don't have and she signed.) The club rules are subject to change at any time at the discretion of the management.
2. Fines may be accessed from $1.00 up to $200.00 dollars per incident at the discretion of management.
3. Be on time for your shift. If you are late management reserves the right to send you home, access a fine, or suspend you.
4. Absentees from work will be excuse only with a doctor's excuse or time off has been approved by management. If there is a false doctor's excuse submitted, management reserves the right to send you home, accesss a fine, suspend you or terminate your services.
management must pre-approve all requests for time off. Performers must provide management with a hand written request stating their requested time off. This also applies to the theater staff. Performers - remember when time off has taken from your schedule, your schedule is subject to change.
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Re: $200 dollar fine as an independant contractor? $100 if late? And other strange rules.
What a rip... Does she make really good money at this club? Otherwise, I'd suggest she find a club that doesn't totally suck. They're completely taking advantage.
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Re: $200 dollar fine as an independant contractor? $100 if late? And other strange ru
she's been slowly making more money. We keep excel databases of her nightly fees, tipouts, and income. (net and gross) I assume it's ok to talk about pay here?
We figure her "take home" as the money she made during the night MINUS 40 dollars for the door fee the folowing night. So by that method her bankable pay can range from $50 to $250 but on average is near $150.
The first month she started working there it showed that her work averaged out to ~$9 an hour. It's been steadily increasing as she gets better and has more "regulars" and is now up to ~$13 / hr. Of course her true gross is closer to ~20 and hour, but all in all the club manages to take out 35% of her pay. So of the $7k she's grossed in the last three months, she's paid the club $3k.
They also collect for dances on top of the $40 dollar bar fee.
club/her
5/10 lapdance
5/20 table dance
10/30
I'm not as concerned with how much she's paying to work there though. She needs a part time job while in school, she enjoys this, and it pays about 25% more than other part time "college jobs".
I'm concerned with the ridiculous fees they are imposing upon these girls and the seemingly blatent abuse of Independant Contractor status.
Also, she doesn't want to work at a club that makes her get a liscense, a.k.a. "permanent record".
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Re: $200 dollar fine as an independant contractor? $100 if late? And other strange ru
Just don't pay it.
If he squawks and throws ya out - call the police from a pay phone about drugs being sold there.
Karma's a bitch baby.
OR - mention lawsuit about independent contractor status being more like employee.
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Re: $200 dollar fine as an independant contractor? $100 if late? And other strange rules.
welcome to go-go....unfortuantely this is par for the course
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Re: $200 dollar fine as an independant contractor? $100 if late? And other strange rules.
This, boys and girls, is why we don't work for Deja Vu.
These clubs do this because they can, because the girls pay these "fines." If no one paid them and all the good dancers walked on them over this, then they would find themselves unable to compete this way. There are plenty enough clubs that don't treat the dancers like this.
I personally would find another club, and call the police to report the illegal dealings there. It's possible that he might be paying off the police and nothing will be done, but I would give it a shot anyway.
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Re: $200 dollar fine as an independant contractor? $100 if late? And other strange rules.
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Originally Posted by Yekhefah
These clubs do this because they can, because the girls pay these "fines." If no one paid them and all the good dancers walked on them over this, then they would find themselves unable to compete this way. There are plenty enough clubs that don't treat the dancers like this.
I wish this scenario would come true! Almost like a strike, but rather than a refusal-to-work strike, more of a rent-strike against a slumlord. It really is true - if the dancers don't put up with it, it just won't happen! I realize that it's a tricky matter, and I know that unionization movements (like the topic of "Live Nude Girls Unite") have met with very limited success, but it doesn't have to be all that extreme. Just take on the most heinous of the bullshit rules and refuse to comply, as a group. Wishful thinking, I know . . .
Thank God I don't work for Deja Vu either (though there have been rumors that our club will soon become an affiliate of the Hustler Club; hmm, I should put some feelers out on this board about what their conditions are like).
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Re: $200 dollar fine as an independant contractor? $100 if late? And other strange rules.
Follow-up on the above: regarding getting dancers to cooperate on something like this. Upon further thought (after reading another thread), if we can't even agree as a group to not fucking FUCK the customers in VIP or give blow jobs in the lap dance area, then what are the odds, really, of banding together on unfair management policies?
*Suddenly discouraged.*
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Re: $200 dollar fine as an independant contractor? $100 if late? And other strange rules.
I'm definitely not talking about unionization! I don't want employee status or benefits from the club. I'm fine with reasonable stage fees and cuts from the dances - the club has to operate, after all - but I will not work at a club with punitive fines. There's simply no reason for it. We are sufficiently disrespected by customers every day, and I will not put up with disrespect from management.
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Re: $200 dollar fine as an independant contractor? $100 if late? And other strange rules.
^^ I totally agree. Unionization=boo.
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Re: $200 dollar fine as an independant contractor? $100 if late? And other strange rules.
This sounds liks standard Deja Vu tactics. Even if the club isn't named Deja Vu, it sounds like it's owned by them. They own Deja Vu, Hustler, Little Darlings, Barely Legal, Dreamgirls in various states, as well as most clubs in San Francisco. There may be others I'm unaware of.
I'm in full agreement with Yek, if the girls didn't pay these ridiculous fines, as a group, the clubs wouldn't be able to charge it. But clubs like these RELY on the fact that most strippers are young, inexperienced, and naive in order to regularly bilk them of up to 60% of their earnings, and sometimes more. Anyone ever notice that most girls who work at clubs owned by Deja Vu seem to be very young, and that they seem to prefer younger girls? Ever wonder why that is?? Best way to get around this, outside of organizing an industry-wide walkout (impossible), is to individually leave the club for one that doesn't extort so much from the girls. They ARE out there still.
Here's a little story: I once worked at a Hustler club. It was still new enough in town that they couldn't get enough girls in, so they couldn't afford to charge outrageous fees and fines at the time. After a few months, they started flying in tons of girls (way too many to allow us to make good money) and raising our fees and fines. One manager in particular started randomly charging fines to anyone who was doing a couch dance while a bachelor party was going on. Mind you, we had been explicitly allowed to continue couch dances when a party was called by the general manager, but this other guy still got away with fining girls, because they paid it without question. One night they tried to fine me $50 for some bogus reason I can't even remember, and I plain out told them that if they were going to charge me that money, I would walk out right then and never come back, and I fully meant it. Well, guess what? They didn't charge me. Of course, this won't work 99% of the time because at most clubs, there's 5 girls waiting in line to replace every one who walks out the door. At this club, that wasn't the case - they were having to fly girls in, so I got away with it. Of course, shortly after, their fee structure and other tactics got ridiculous enough to make me leave anyway.
Moral of the story: Don't take the shit lying down! Vote with your feet and go to a place that treats you better. There are still PLENTY out there.
Willpower, it is nice to see a guy who tries to look out for his girl with this sort of thing rather than giving her a hard time about dancing. The best thing you can do for her is help her find another club to work that is NOT owned by Deja Vu and where she doesn't have to adhere to such strict and ridiculous rules. We strip largely because of the freedom it gives us (along with the money), not the other way around!
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Re: $200 dollar fine as an independant contractor? $100 if late? And other strange ru
I don't know much about this licensing thing that strippers have to get. From what i've heard it sound very similar to a Business license or a tax identification number. The county says that it's
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a sexually oriented business license from the clerk’s office, to be renewed once a year. That was reportedly included to ensure that anyone with a drug or sex-related felony history could not work in the business.
from:
it sounds more like way to enforce taxation to me. (which i don't mind paying taxes)
She is worried that if she goes to another club and is required to get this license that it will bite her in the ass in the future.
- Who is the information available too?
- Where exactly on your "record" is this information stored? I mean, does it just show up as a background check or do they have to specifically query the county or city where she got it. Or does the irs hold the information?
She's going to school for a specialized field of psychology that she will need a Ph.D. to work in and she's worried that getting a license could screw up her future. With that in mind it's kinda like deal with it, fix it, or quit because of no other un-licensed clubs in the area.
The other thing we are wondering about is the Independant Contractor Agreement that we believe she signed. I haven't seen it yet, but we will try to get it this week, (if they'll even release it...)
- If it states in this that they can fine her for missing work, or coming in late, then is that permissible? Or does the fact that she's an independant contractor supercede that?
i just found thi
I'm really just trying to find out what kind of legal leverage i have here without calling a drug bust or trying a lawsuit.
From doing a little research it looks like, if the irs were to step in, they would rule that she IS in fact an employee under common-law and then they would investigate the club for "mislassification of an employee as a contractor." But i'm not really even sure if i have this right. what do you think?
I was thinking that we could just get ahold of this IC agreement rewrite it to omit the crap that's not supposed to be there if she's an IC and then resubmit it for them to sign with a witness. Not really sure if this is proper either. I'm about to head over to som law forums to find out.
btw: Thanks for the time you spent reading all of this!
p.s. - She just came in the room and told me they are indeed a dejavu affiliate.
Oh, and about the girls standing up for themselves, too many of them just don't care. Even with her, the first response was "it sucks, oh well, i'll make more money." Many of the girls are "Trapped" and have been for years so they would rather pay a fine that even miss a day.
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Re: $200 dollar fine as an independant contractor? $100 if late? And other strange rules.
If this is the only club in town that allows girls to work without the license, she will have to continue to put up with whatever bullshit they want to dish out, so long as she plans to dance in that area. Including $extortion, inflexible scheduling, and possibly worse.
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Re: $200 dollar fine as an independant contractor? $100 if late? And other strange rules.
thats terrible they took $200 from your friend... its a shame how some clubs think they own you.. I def think she should check out some other clubs around the area that have lower house fees.. i know it'll prob be difficult for your friend to want to switch and have to adapt to a new club but it will benefit her more.. sounds way too cut throat for someone in school at the moment.. she doesn't need the added stress of an asshole manager.
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Re: $200 dollar fine as an independant contractor? $100 if late? And other strange rules.
I personnally think it's much better to work in a nicer, cleaner, club that treats you much better, that doesn't take your money and have to get a license. I tried going to another club out of my town that doesn't require a licese and it wasn't for me because of the contact involved. I finally decided to work where I do now, even though I had to get a license. That was a concern for me too, but then I finally just said to myself, oh well, what harm can it really be. I've known many other dancers that have worked with a dancer license and they went to school and went on to many other things and it didn't ever come back to hurt them. I guess you have to decide what's really important to you.
Just about all clubs to have house fees, take a cut off your dances or something. My club charges you $15 if you miss your stage set, charge $15 when you get a VIP half hour or hour, if you're late it's $25 to $50 depending on what time you come in and plus all the other tipouts of the floormen/bouncers, DJ, Housemom, valet guys, it all adds up and the more you make, yes the more you tipout. Last night I had a really good night and I ended up tipping out totaly $150. Some nights I only tipout $60.
No matter where you go, there will always be tipout fees. Dancers are almost always considered independent contractors, hense they pay the club to use their facility. I guess you and your girlfriend have to decide what's really important to you and decide what you want to do about it. I personally don't think I could work for a Deja Vu club either. Just what I've heard from other dancers, they just sound too much of a headache to me. Good luck!
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Re: $200 dollar fine as an independant contractor? $100 if late? And other strange rules.
Yeah, when i first heard about all the fees (not including the $200 no show, and $100 late fees) i was a a bit concerned, but after calling around and reading on here i realized that seems normal. Hell, i think it would even be fair if she paid the door fee of 40 dollars if she missed a night and a more expensive door fee for being late. But this 200 dollar crap is ridiculous. I think the manager is just getting low on coke money.
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Re: $200 dollar fine as an independant contractor? $100 if late? And other strange rules.
Fines are not legal.
Ofcourse it's up to the individual dancer if a particular club is worth it to her to accept dealing with or paying illegal fines or not.
I have never personally been fined. However if I did get fined the I would tell the club to fuck off. I might even report them for violating the law if I had something in writing regarding the fine.
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Re: $200 dollar fine as an independant contractor? $100 if late? And other strange rules.
Fines are not lega???^^ Is that just Texas?? That's interesting, we have some fine issues here to, seemed fair, but not if it isn't legal!!
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Re: $200 dollar fine as an independant contractor? $100 if late? And other strange rules.
I don't think fines are legal anywhere. Think about it... you are not an employee of the club, so they would have no authority to dock your pay. In fact, YOU are the one paying the CLUB with your stage fee and dance cut, so technically the club managers work for you and not the other way around.
A lot of club managers are megalomaniacs and misogynists who feel like they need to "keep those girls in line." I don't put up with that shit for ten seconds. When you pay me, then you have some right to tell me what to do. But as long as *I* am the one paying you, then you're going to show me proper respect and let me work without bullshit interference.
I see no reason why I should pay someone to treat me like a stupid child.
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Re: $200 dollar fine as an independant contractor? $100 if late? And other strange ru
I was fined once in a club but I wanted a printed recipet since it would be a tax deduction. They never fined me again.
When it comes to the comment about should she even have to call in if she is not coming to work or running late..... ummm yeah. You may be an I.C. but you still have a responibilty to your job. If I was an independent wedding planner I couldn't just choose when I want to show up to the wedding I would be out of busniess.
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Re: $200 dollar fine as an independant contractor? $100 if late? And other strange rules.
I've been fined numerous amounts of time for being late or calling in. it is a crock, but they can do what they want otherwise it's out the door you go.
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Re: $200 dollar fine as an independant contractor? $100 if late? And other strange ru
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Originally Posted by Crissychan
When it comes to the comment about should she even have to call in if she is not coming to work or running late..... ummm yeah. You may be an I.C. but you still have a responibilty to your job. If I was an independent wedding planner I couldn't just choose when I want to show up to the wedding I would be out of busniess.
That's true, but you're not paying the newlyweds. They're paying you, and hence they can tell you when to be there. Their money gives them the control. With the club, OTOH, you are paying the manager. Hence YOU have the control and he should respect that.
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Re: $200 dollar fine as an independant contractor? $100 if late? And other strange ru
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Originally Posted by Crissychan
When it comes to the comment about should she even have to call in if she is not coming to work or running late..... ummm yeah.
"ummm yeah" "like, oh my god..." Please leave your attitude at the door. There was NEVER a question of IF she should call in or not. It is the respectful thing to do with any job. In fact if you had paid attention, i said that she called-in a day in advance. The fact remains that she IS being classified as a Independant Contractor which gives her the legal right to not work whenever she wants without reprecussions. IN FACT, legally, there shouldn't even be a schedule for the girls.
If they're on a schedule then they are "employees" and the club is required to pay their taxes, workmans comp, benefits, etc.
You should read up a little on these pages.
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You may be an I.C. but you still have a responibilty to your job.
Actually... (taken from )
Many misclassified independent contractors don't fully understand the difference either, which helps to perpetuate the problem. Here's how it's supposed to work when you are correctly classified as an independent contractor:
* Companies are not your employers per se, but your clients. As such, they are not entitled to direct you in your work.
* Of course, your clients have a right to say what they expect for the rates they're paying you, but only as it relates to the outcome of the project.
* It's your right to decide when, where and how to get the project done.
Natch, it's wise for you to satisfy your clients at the project level, if you wish to get paid and receive favorable referrals for landing more contract jobs. But that doesn't mean you must allow a client to control you as an employee. That's against the law.
In other words, by U.S. law, an employer cannot classify you as an independent contractor, then dictate when, where and how you work, as though you are an employee. It's all about degree of control and independence.
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If I was an independent wedding planner I couldn't just choose when I want to show up to the wedding I would be out of busniess.
As an independant contractor the other party is not allowed to direct you in any way. That includes equipment, clothes, hours, or financially. Generally they pay you AFTER you have completed a job. Sure you'd have a bad rep if you didn't show up, but there would be no reprecussions or obligation.
If they were to pay you upfront and tell you to be at the wedding at a specific time then you are technically a common-law employee and they could sue you for the money paid and possibly damages.
I've found out more info in the last two days then i ever expected to, so now i'm just trying to share everything i can find for other's to reference, as i'll probably move on once this is cleared up.
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Re: $200 dollar fine as an independant contractor? $100 if late? And other strange ru
First of all, its not an attitude I have. I just have known the otherside as in the managers point of view. From your stand point they could also turn around and tell you they don't need you to work tonight because they have enough girls, having a schedule helps prevent that from happening. If she is unhappy she should simply leave and find a different club, its what I.C.'s do. The reason clubs have the ability to not care about losing dancers is as said before, there are 4 more waiting if she leaves.
What exactly do you do for a living if I may ask.... you have a lot of free time to worry about what your girlfriend makes and gets fined. Wow you even know what her average hourly rate is..... no offense but you sound more like her suitcase pimp than a boyfriend.
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Re: $200 dollar fine as an independant contractor? $100 if late? And other strange ru
So what is it like dating a performer? (Thanks to Yekhefah for proper word usage). I think I'd be uncomfortable dating a dancer. Not that I think anyone is "bad", but just the whole thought of it. Maybe there's a side of it I don't know.