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seeing a stripper outside the club
Seeing a stripper outside the club:
Female advice would be appreciated.
If there are mutual good feelings after spending multiple days a week for months with a girl who happens to strip for you, I can't help to ask to take whatever exists between her and I out of the club where we can find out first exactly what is real and second make it into something. In attempting to not be pressuring or manipulating am I being too good or patient of a guy when I let it be entirely on her terms initially if she starts to see me outside the club? Also, isn't that pretty much the only way to transition into something honest when you've been a long time regular customer?
The reason I ask is that it seems to almost doom any relationship or friendship to about three months at most. It has been incredibly hard to regain control in relationships like these. The women I've dated I think are so used to the power trip of the stripper/customer role that they don't give it up willingly. No matter what women say eventually women won't respect a guy who isn't controlling things i.e. who supplicates to them. Or they blame the guy because things did not work out despite the fact that they were the one who choose the boring activities.
Eventually I've had to just flat out dump/reject women who might have ended up as a wife had things been different. They start displaying that lack of respect or boredom. Perhaps even showing a lack of the attraction that was definately there and mutual before things got "complicated".
They might for example stand me up with a lame excuse or not return my calls for an extended period of time excusing it to themselves because I am sorta still a customer maybe because I'm still trying to help them out financially because otherwise "it would be weird" according to them if we stopped dancing and stuff. Or they try to convince me that even though we've been going out to eat, doing things together outside the club frequently, talking on the phone three or four times a day, and perhaps even having sex that "I was always just a customer" or they say "I need a customer more than a friend right now".
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Re: seeing a stripper outside the club
Here is your first problem: You are trying to break Rule #1 - You can't have any meaningful relationship with a woman you are paying to strip for you. Particularly if you've been a regular customer. She sees you as a customer, a wallet, a source of income, and that's it. Any "good feelings" on her part are strictly business-related. Don't confuse a good performance (which is what she's giving you) with real feelings.
I don't know how many times we've seen this exact same thing from some guy who comes here looking for advice. Your second problem is that you're spending waaaaayy too much time trying to figure out how to get into her panties. Any guy who gets online looking for info on how to get the stripper he's been paying to see him outside the club on a personal level is obsessing about it a bit.
Your third problem is that you think your situation is somehow different from all the others.
Either give it up with this woman altogether or realize you're never going to get anywhere and continue paying her for the entertainment you obviously enjoy.
And quit trying to fall in love with strippers!
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Re: seeing a stripper outside the club
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Originally Posted by Bridgette
You can't have any meaningful relationship with a woman you are paying to strip for you. Particularly if you've been a regular customer...
I was never a big fan of lapdances to begin with (preferring to tip stage dancers as lavishly as possible), but after all of two weeks working as a DJ, the truth of what Bridgette is saying was quite glaringly obvious.
Act like a customer, pay like a customer, remain a customer...
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Re: seeing a stripper outside the club
I have several regulars. I get along with them great. We talk about EVERYTHING... but they are a CUSTOMER, period.
You are paying her for her time, and she is being a good business woman by treating you well for it. If she wants to meet you outside the club, SHE will bring it up - and follow through on it. It has to be her call, or you guys will have that doomed relationship you spoke of - when you realize that her saying yes to "going shopping" requires you to a) buy all her stuff or b) pay her to be there.
Keep it to yourself, or she'll be very unhappy. She'll bring up the OTC meetings if she wants one.
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Re: seeing a stripper outside the club
Just enjoy her for what she is: a great entertainer.
I live in a pretty rinky-dinky city and after awhile, the girls give up on dancing and go get a "vanilla" job. If you're lucky, they never danced for you and therefore you might have a shot at even a friendship, such as the case with me and several people has been lately.
They're just people. They're not "on" and sexual all the time.
They looked great naked, but when it comes down to it the personality matters. Believe me, one of the hottest ladies I've ever worked with, when you actually spent time with her, it was only about five minutes before I was ready to run out of the room, cartoon-style, crash through the wall, leaving a me-shaped hole behind me.
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Re: seeing a stripper outside the club
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Originally Posted by Bridgette
And quit trying to fall in love with strippers!
AMEN!!!! ;D
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Re: seeing a stripper outside the club
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Originally Posted by Smith
Female advice would be appreciated.
Really terrific! We have all sorts of advice...
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No matter what women say...
Oh wait. I'm sorry, you said you wanted female advice? Okay - offhand. Find a woman who means what she says. Take her at her word. From there everything will fall into place.
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women won't respect a guy who isn't controlling things i.e. who supplicates to them.
So you want a woman who lets you control things, i.e. who supplicates to you? I don't know that you are looking for a dancer. We're notoriously egotistical.
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Eventually I've had to just flat out dump/reject women who might have ended up as a wife had things been different. They start displaying that lack of respect or boredom. Perhaps even showing a lack of the attraction that was definately there and mutual before things got "complicated".
Are you sure, absolutely sure, that YOU are rejecting THEM? It doesn't sound like they like you. Find women that like you. I mean this in the nicest possible way, even though I am aware it sounds incredibly bitchy (I can't help it - that's just how I sound). If you are going to go around trying to make women who are not really into you your girlfriend, you will have a high failure rate.
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Or they try to convince me that even though we've been going out to eat, doing things together outside the club frequently, talking on the phone three or four times a day, and perhaps even having sex that "I was always just a customer" or they say "I need a customer more than a friend right now".
Well, that pretty much speaks for itself, then, doesn't it? For some dancers this is just customer service, and if they are actively telling you that they are not actually dating you, but merely trying to get you to come into the club, that could be, possibly, what they are actually doing. They obviously don't want to date you, but instead want to keep you as a customer. I would suggest finding women that like you and want to date you instead of trying to make women who don't want to date you date you. Dating will immediately become much, much easier.
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Re: seeing a stripper outside the club
I can't add anything to Bridgette's excellent post, except that you sound like a bit of a control freak. If you want a helpless, submissive woman, then you really shouldn't pursue strippers; we are famously able to take care of ourselves and demand that our men respect us. We get enough disrespect at work without coming home to it.
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Re: seeing a stripper outside the club
AMEN, Yek! I don't think I could have said that any better myself.
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Re: seeing a stripper outside the club
The bald truth of it is that you CANNOT make the "transition" from customer to boyfriend. You just can't. Once a customer, always a customer.
Or, I should say, once a regular, always a customer.
I know there are some women on the site who met their SO's as customers. Please, ladies, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing that the guy you ended up dating and/or marrying was not one of your "regulars." More likely, it was a casual customer, or a guy who came in often because he was a good buddy of the owner or the manager or the DJ, or a guy who came in once and knocked your socks off.
The only time I dated a customer: He came in, tipped me a few bucks onstage, I sat with him after, he pulled my hair and asked me if his eyes looked like he just got out of jail...I went home with him that night, fucked him, and I was with him for the next three years. Not one of my healthier relationships, I might add.
Though there are some we just barely tolerate, we are often quite fond of our regulars. We appreciate them, we feel affection for them, but the truth is that we don't really respect them. And it's because of the relationship, not because of a flaw in the man. The balance of power is too skewed and weird. And it's immutable--once established, you can't change it.
If you really examine your own heart, you may find that you actually don't respect these girls any more than they respect you. There is some part of you that knows you have "bought" them. And they may be girls who have a lot of integrity and aren't really "for sale" outside the "special ethical arena" of the stripclub. They hate you for making them feel that they can be bought, and you hate them for not loving you for the decent man you probably are.
It's a lose-lose situation.
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Re: seeing a stripper outside the club
Great post, Nicolina.
Personally I don't understand why single guys would even be doing any serious strip clubbing.
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Re: seeing a stripper outside the club
Nicolina: Thanks for the great post !!!
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Re: seeing a stripper outside the club
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Originally Posted by dayzed
Personally I don't understand why single guys would even be visiting a strip club.
Um... for the same reason everyone else does? /:O
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Re: seeing a stripper outside the club
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Originally Posted by Yekhefah
Um... for the same reason everyone else does? /:O
I think there are a number of reasons why it makes little sense for a single guy to visit a SC... the one aspect most relevant to this thread is the greater ease w/ which a single guy might lose perspective and find himself in the emotional quagmire of a SC pseduo-relationship, such as with an "ATF." It appears that the OP may have lost some of his perspective. Of course, this happens to many a married man as well (as many blue threads teach. :D).
OTOH, kudos to all you single clubbers who keep it real, and have a good time doing so. (E.g., Mastirodonicus (sp.?) strikes me as this type.)
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Re: seeing a stripper outside the club
I have a harder time relating to married guys who regularly visit stripclubs, myself, than I do single guys--provided the single guys aren't there to try to establish a relationship, that is.
The serious, live-in relationships I have been in made me much less inclined to go to a stripclub, except in the case of the dancer, who liked them if she was in the right mood. But she was the one going into VIP, lol--occasionally with me being there as well.
But then I have been serious with women I was attracted to pretty thoroughly, and all three of them danced for me at home, so there was much less reason to go spend money to see other attractive women dancing, who didn't know me.
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Re: seeing a stripper outside the club
Not to get OT, but during my first-ever SC visit, the stripper made some crack about me having a SO. Naively lapping up the SS, I asked her how she knew that I was involved, and her reply: because you're here. Single guys don't want to pay for the social/physical interaction they can get for free, whereas men in a relationship come to the SC because they don't want to cheat on their wives/SOs.
This has stuck w/ me as a reasonable-enough truism, I guess.
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Re: seeing a stripper outside the club
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Originally Posted by Djoser
I have a harder time relating to married guys who regularly visit stripclubs, myself, than I do single guys--provided the single guys aren't there to try to establish a relationship, that is.
Well, that one is easy. Have you ever watched your favorite movie over and over again? Sometimes it's nice to appreciate a different view and plot with out all of the implications of "Do you want to sleep together or (insert sex act here)?"
It's fun to BS and flirt with a woman sometimes and both parties know that it isn't going any further.
OTOH, I have a hard time relating to why a single guy would go in a club. With all of the single women out there (including dancers) this is their choice for a pick up spot?:O If I were single and available, I wouldn't be hitting the SCs for companionship.
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Re: seeing a stripper outside the club
I suppose it's because I never went to a stripclub looking for companionship, lol...
I liked seeing them dance--and still do. It's erotic art, if it's done well.
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Re: seeing a stripper outside the club
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Originally Posted by Djoser
I suppose it's because I never went to a stripclub looking for companionship, lol...
Are you sure? "looking for companionship" being distinct from "looking for a companion." Why else go, if not for interaction (be it physical, verbal, whatever)?
Surely you weren't that guy sitting in the dark corner, ogling the ladies while emanating silent vibes to stay away...
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Re: seeing a stripper outside the club
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Originally Posted by dayzed
Are you sure? "looking for companionship" being distinct from "looking for a companion." Why else go, if not for interaction (be it physical, verbal, whatever)?
Surely you weren't that guy sitting in the dark corner, ogling the ladies while emanating silent vibes to stay away...
LOLOL. "Get away from me, dammit! Can't you see I'm busy watching her?!"
No, I went because I'm a visually oriented guy--being an artist and all. Sure I liked talking to them, but wasn't there to try to fill a void, or substitute time with a stripper for a lack of a serious Gfriend. Also, I never would stay long (except at one after hours place--all the other 'normal' clubs were closed) even after I started getting to be friends with a few of the dancers.
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Re: seeing a stripper outside the club
You know, you should do a George Costanza, and do the opposite of whatever your instincts are and see if that works for you. If you were say, at Steak 'n Shake at 3am with a load of dancers talking smack about each other, you might just see that they're mere mortals like the rest of us. Oh, you should totally pick up the tab though.
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Re: seeing a stripper outside the club
I really don't have much time, but I need to post here. I love how every guy posts about how different they are. You're not. You're male. My chances with a stripper are the same as with a forklift operator. If she likes me enough, actions will be taken to ensure a meetup with little or no money loss.
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Originally Posted by Smith
Seeing a stripper outside the club:
Female advice would be appreciated.
I'm more man than you are and more woman than you'll ever get! ;) J/k, Maybe.
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Originally Posted by Smith
If there are mutual good feelings after spending multiple days a week for months with a girl who happens to strip for you,
Your failing here is that you lacked forsight. You should have known within the first couple of days the extent of which your interest lies in this person. Extending the customer/client frame made you have a customer/client relationship. She knew within the first 5 minutes whether you where a customer or the one in a million that may be something else. It is 100% harder to get a date out of me while I am fixing her computer. I can only assume the same in this scenario. That part of me is not available while I am working. Ask anyone who's talked to me while I am working.
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I can't help to ask to take whatever exists between her and I out of the club where we can find out first exactly what is real and second make it into something. In attempting to not be pressuring or manipulating am I being too good or patient of a guy when I let it be entirely on her terms initially if she starts to see me outside the club? Also, isn't that pretty much the only way to transition into something honest when you've been a long time regular customer?
Dispite popular belief. I think you should walk away, get some dances from another dancer, stop extending the income, and make her see you're not interested in spending money on her...
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The reason I ask is that it seems to almost doom any relationship or friendship to about three months at most. It has been incredibly hard to regain control in relationships like these. The women I've dated I think are so used to the power trip of the stripper/customer role that they don't give it up willingly.
Not power trip....the money. You're asking "Do you want to make money off me or not?" when she's at her job.
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No matter what women say eventually women won't respect a guy who isn't controlling things i.e. who supplicates to them. Or they blame the guy because things did not work out despite the fact that they were the one who choose the boring activities.
Supplicating. Hmmm. A girl, or guy, will not see you as an EQUAL if you lack the fortitude to force equal grounds.
You are not a victim here. You're a customer.... you just don't want to be. The solution? Stop being a customer.
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Eventually I've had to just flat out dump/reject women who might have ended up as a wife had things been different. They start displaying that lack of respect or boredom. Perhaps even showing a lack of the attraction that was definately there and mutual before things got "complicated".
I wouldn't blame her for the "lack of respect or boredom", sir. I also would never blame her for things getting "Complicated".
You're use of "I've just flat out dump/reject women" sounds very egomaniacal. You think you're in control, You're not. No offense. Actually, it really bugs me that you use that line. It puts this whole post in perspective.
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They might for example stand me up with a lame excuse or not return my calls for an extended period of time excusing it to themselves because I am sorta still a customer maybe because I'm still trying to help them out financially because otherwise "it would be weird" according to them if we stopped dancing and stuff. Or they try to convince me that even though we've been going out to eat, doing things together outside the club frequently, talking on the phone three or four times a day, and perhaps even having sex that "I was always just a customer" or they say "I need a customer more than a friend right now".
You're talking about rejecting women who get bored with you...then about women who never looked at you as more than a material possession? You have to be worth more than that.
I already said it I think. I think you hate being a customer, and fear women like this wont touch you if you aren't one. For whatever reason you've classified them as "untouchable without money"
"I need a customer more than a friend right now?" Whoa.... hahah I would soooo have walked. If you slept with her after saying that...
Seriously, I wish you the best and hope I was not too harsh. But you need to not seek the validation of strippers just because it feels like love.
Mast.
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Re: seeing a stripper outside the club
I just realized this is your first post.... hahah ok... if you're NOT a troll...
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Re: seeing a stripper outside the club
Wow. Pure, innocent, starry-eyed, SC-virgin newbie. You don't often see guys with absolutely zero SS detection capability like this. Absolutely none, zero, zippo. Maybe we should put him carefully under glass and label him: Homo Erectus Cluelessonius.
God knows, we all start out this way, and should go easy on him. But this is why customers should be required to take a course on proper SC etiquette, dynamics and ethics. Or at least tag along with a knowing crowd and observe. This poor guy is rolling around hopelessly lost in a house of mirrors without his glasses or the semblance of a clue. This is really too bad, because he could burn out in frustration having never learned everything he was doing was wrong and vanish as a customer altogether.
Kudos to Bridgette for a perfect post and to the wonderfully sexy and insightful Nicolina for finding a way to improve on it (even though she and I do not exactly agree on her point.) I'd explain the disagreement, but I'm sure everybody would rather read about the other things we....er, "discussed" over the weekend.
TOO stalling on writing the TR....
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Re: seeing a stripper outside the club
B is quite right, and Nic is mostly right, as both girls are speaking to the all important issues associated with having realistic expectations within the unrealistic environment of the SC.
That said, I'm pretty jaded as a customer, but sometimes when you're seemingly not paying attention, OTC still happens.