-
Re: I've been reading the pink side again. :(
I haven't read this whole thread, but I will say this:
I think if the guy had simply asked her (nicely) if she would be willing to have sex with him for $700, she wouldn't have gotten so mad.
If he had said to her, "Oh my god, you are so gorgeous. You have by far the most incredible ________ I've ever seen. Now please, don't be offended, but if there is any way that I might convince you to spend some time with me...I mean, really. Name your price and it's all yours."
If he had said that, she might have been annoyed. She might have rolled her eyes and thought to herself, for the millionth time, that it is unpleasant to be mistaken for a prostitute when she isn't one. She might have said to him, "You know, I'm really tired of guys assuming that I'm a hooker when I'm a dancer only." But I doubt she would have taken his money and told him he got fucked.
I agree that it is the kind of thing that is fun to maybe fantasize about doing to an impossibly arrogant customer...the kind of thing that you sit in the dressing room going, "Man! I should've done that! That would've taught him a lesson!" But that you shouldn't actually do.
But GenWar, do you notice that the majority of the posts from dancers are telling her that it wasn't cool?
-
Re: I've been reading the pink side again. :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenWar
I mean, I know they hate us. I mean, I KNOW they HATE (!!!) us.
-gen
There are a lot of pre-concieved caveats that I keep in the back of my mind when I'm in a strip club. This has never been one of them. Yes, there is a jaded stripper out there for every A-hole customer but I have a feeling the percentges are fairly even.
Honestly, I don't see how anyone can truly enjoy themselves in a strip club if they think that half the people in the room hate them. :(
-
Re: I've been reading the pink side again. :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by cherry_sin
Anyhow, point of the post is, custies should know if a girl is a whore - she'll tell them. Don't insult us by asking us to be your whore. If we were turning tricks, we would tell you.
Your choice of words indicate that you do not escort. And most stripper escorts wait until they find a high probability potential customer before leaving hints about her OTC availability. I have never, never, had a stripper come out and tell me she offers "tricks" or anything even close OTC.
-
Re: I've been reading the pink side again. :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenny
Dude if there were no differences in sexual services you would have no preference between the stripper dry humping you and the stripper fucking you/blowing you/whatever.
dude, don't be a such a shmendrik. i didn't say there wasn't a differerence between sex workers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenny
Different sex workers provide (as a default at least) DIFFERENT sexual services.
nice to see that you qualified that remark. which tells me that you know the default setting may not always be the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenny
Doms and phone sex operators are sex workers too - they don't do lapdances and they don't fuck you.
strippers are sex workers and some do more than the default LD, convo, etc. some of them of them do jerk, suck or fuck their customers like an escort.
-
Re: I've been reading the pink side again. :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolina
I think if the guy had simply asked her (nicely) if she would be willing to have sex with him for $700, she wouldn't have gotten so mad.
well, it doesn't sound like he was exactly rude either, Nic. he didn't say, "hey whore! how much for the blowjobs..har,har,har.".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolina
If he had said that, she might have been annoyed.
or she might have still ripped him off. frankly, she doesn't seem all that remorseful about it. sometimes, i think you ladies underestimate what your co-workers will do to earn (or steal) a buck.
-
Re: I've been reading the pink side again. :(
Genwar, I don't read the pink-side that much lately except for Music Mix. For the last several months, maybe longer, it's been an incongruous hodgepodge of Oprah Winfrey and Valerie Solanis. A lot of self-help threads, personal advice columns, and rants about the evils of men. I don't take any of it personally, since it's not directed at me.
It helps to always remember that the pink-side is first and foremost an industry site/support group. It is a safe place for venting about poor work conditions, job frustrations, creepy custies, and the poor business climate. It’s not directed at us or for us. Give the pink-side credit though; most of the responses roundly condemned the original poster. And many of those came from ladies that post here. ;)
Which brings up sweeping generalization time!! :D Dancers that play in the blue basement seem in general to tolerate us or, heaven forbid, even like us just a little. They might find us humorous, needy, pathetic, or outright delusional, but overall approach us as equals. A few bitter/jaded pink posters, however, are playing a dominance/submission status game. They see us as loathsome, but necessary. By considering all custies as less worthy than themselves they can shore-up their own shaky self-esteem, assert some control, or even rationalize stealing from a customer.
-
Re: I've been reading the pink side again. :(
I go through life knowing that half like me and half don't. I usually don't go out of my way to try to change that perception, I just work with the reality. I'm comfortable with that in the office, outside, and in a strip club. I even work pretty comfortably with my rivals, because you know where each other stands.
-
Re: I've been reading the pink side again. :(
QUOTE=Nicolina:
But GenWar, do you notice that the majority of the posts from dancers are telling her that it wasn't cool?
---------------------------------
Aye, milady, it has BECOME that. But at the time, it wasn't. In fact, when I first read it, it was 2 posts. This was before Sue W even came on to say WTF?
I am happy to see they are taking her to task for her actions. I am even happier to see that she refuses to be accountable or even acknowledge that she may have been wrong. That failure to even acknowledge the basic evil in her actions allows me to categorize her as fringe and seperate her from all other dancers I know IRL, online and in stereotype. To paraphrase Puff Daddy, "It's all about the compartmentalization, baby."
---------------------------------
QUOTE=yoda57us:
There are a lot of pre-concieved caveats that I keep in the back of my mind when I'm in a strip club. This has never been one of them. Yes, there is a jaded stripper out there for every A-hole customer but I have a feeling the percentges are fairly even.
Honestly, I don't see how anyone can truly enjoy themselves in a strip club if they think that half the people in the room hate them. :(
---------------------------------
This one is actually simple, Yoda. To me, they are actresses. My self esteem is sufficiently low enough that I wouldn't think they would like me to begin with. I pay them to pretend to like me. This means, they are pretending away from some reality, right?
Anyway, it is a purchased service. If I need my shoe fixed, my pool cleaned or medical attention, I pay my cobbler, my pool guy (Juan!), or my doctor. I need to feel special, attractive and important, I pay my dancer. Any or all of those people can hate me in reality. As long as they do a good job concealing it, we can have a successful relationship. Does that answer your question?
-gen
-
Re: I've been reading the pink side again. :(
i don't hate any of my customers. that probably makes me a strippar mutant. ohwell.
-
Re: I've been reading the pink side again. :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenWar
This one is actually simple, Yoda. To me, they are actresses. My self esteem is sufficiently low enough that I wouldn't think they would like me to begin with. I pay them to pretend to like me. This means, they are pretending away from some reality, right?
Anyway, it is a purchased service. If I need my shoe fixed, my pool cleaned or medical attention, I pay my cobbler, my pool guy (Juan!), or my doctor. I need to feel special, attractive and important, I pay my dancer. Any or all of those people can hate me in reality. As long as they do a good job concealing it, we can have a successful relationship. Does that answer your question?
Speaking from my own personal experience, I appreciate the men that come in only for entertainment. I have some repeaters which I'm happy to see because we vibe together nicely. We have a few laughs, I give them a few dances on the floor, or if they want, they go to VIP with me. If they are waiting for someone else..it's no biggie...I know the game.
They are my favorite type of customer because they know this is only entertainment.
(Leaving Mr. Punk out of this--he's pretty forward with his intentions in the SC..I respect that.)
Personally, I don't put much effort in trying to accumulate regulars because it always leads to, "let's have dinner", "let's meet outside." I think strippers anticipate this question, which may add even more resistance. A few times regulars have given me this, " I've spent thousands of dollars on you, I feel used!", disappointed look on their faces. I can see where some junkies would think, I'm a bitch, but I never said I was interested in them in that way, I'm pretty direct when I'm interested. In Civilian words--if you can make a connection between money, and say, companionship -- I guess I saw him as just a friend.
There is a part of me which sympathizes with customers and another part of me that sees this as a job...it's business. I'm not the type of dancer who will play on a customer's emotions…..just for Money, because well, as woman, guys have played on my emotions…..just for sex (I think the cost of emotional deception is worth a lot more). So I won't insinuate the possibility of OTC action or having romantic feelings, once I get propositioned, it ends. Some dancers won't do this...
I think the tension from both sides comes from irrational expectations, reading too much into things, hoping, and lying out of desperation..for money or sex.
So in my mind, Genwar, you know the game. I think anyone who get's overly emotional, is just caught up in it. ;)
-
Re: I've been reading the pink side again. :(
I don't hate customers. Nor do I hate prostitutes.
I'm basically taking the same stance as Nicolina: I understand a man asking us for sex. I truly do.
When a man does it politely, or in a non-offensive way, and takes no for an answer, he is assuming you escorts.
When a man assumes because you work there, you sell sex, and is rude, or tacky, or won't take no for an answer, he is calling you a whore - and to me, there is a huge difference between an escort and a whore. Sorry for not illuminating that remark a bit.
And anyhow, that's just my opinion. I can see where you all are coming from too.
-
Re: I've been reading the pink side again. :(
Gen, I didn't ask a question.
-
Re: I've been reading the pink side again. :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenWar
Anyway, it is a purchased service. If I need my shoe fixed, my pool cleaned or medical attention, I pay my cobbler, my pool guy (Juan!), or my doctor. I need to feel special, attractive and important, I pay my dancer. Any or all of those people can hate me in reality.
totally agree. i wouldn't poll any of those people you mentioned on whether or not they liked me as a person. frankly, i'm not paying them to like me. i'm paying them to do a job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniela
A few times regulars have given me this, "I've spent thousands of dollars on you, I feel used!", disappointed look on their faces. I can see where some junkies would think, I'm a bitch, but I never said I was interested in them in that way, I'm pretty direct when I'm interested. In Civilian words--if you can make a connection between money, and say, companionship -- I guess I saw him as just a friend.
no, i don't think you're a bitch. caveat emptor and all that. despite evidence to the contrary, customers often think they'll hit the home run with the stripper. if they spend enough money or bring her flowers/gifts or act like a gentleman or be patient enough or kiss her ass enough, etc. in the end, despite all of their excessive efforts, they never get what they want, but on the bright side. it doesn't seem to stop them from trying to beat the odds. it's a comedy of futility. sort of like watching lucy holding the football for charile brown.
-
Re: I've been reading the pink side again. :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_punk
strippers are sex workers and some do more than the default LD, convo, etc. some of them of them do jerk, suck or fuck their customers like an escort.
The trouble comes when the customer assumes that all strippers do more than the default. (Default, that's a really neutral, useful word.) If the customer would simply always assume the default -- assume that the dancer is going to be offended by a suggestion otherwise -- and let the dancer be the one to indicate that she's willing to go beyond the default, incidents like this one wouldn't happen. Most customers in this forum understand this bit of gentlemanly etiquette, and routinely report practicing it. Most dancers hanging out on this side typically tolerate a breach of this etiquette by customers when it happens. I know I'm dreaming, but I think if this area of misunderstanding could be lessened, it would go a long way to diminish griping on both sides of the aisle.
-Ev
-
Re: I've been reading the pink side again. :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by yoda57us
Gen, I didn't ask a question.
I sorta took your last statement about not understanding how anyone can enjoy themselves if they think that the dancers hate them as a question. My bad. :P
-gen
-
Re: I've been reading the pink side again. :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenWar
I sorta took your last statement about not understanding how anyone can enjoy themselves if they think that the dancers hate them as a question. My bad. :P
-gen
Whatever works for you Gen. For me, I just always assume that the ladies are there to work. My experience has been that they would rather spend time with a nice guy who spends money on them than a jerk who spends money on them. It's always worked well for me though I will admit that I've met a few dancers who seemed to prefer the jerks.
-
Re: I've been reading the pink side again. :(
All junkie's should read the pink side, IMO it's a great reality check and a sure fire way to keep from sliding too far into PL'dom. Puff Daddy is right, compartmentalizing is the key, go to the SC, have a good time, don't sweat the rest.
-
Re: I've been reading the pink side again. :(
As far as this notion that dancers hate us...uhh, time out. :stop:
Maybe I'm getting jaded, but the only legitimate praise that I've ever needed from a dancer was the notion that I was a pleasant patron to deal with and that she'd be more than happy to repeat the experience again next time that I'm at her club. I mean hell, I've had gals from out of state whom I more than l likely will never see again give me their work schedule and/or phone number.
And even if after an apparently pleasant time, if a dancer is laughing at me in the dressing room with the other girls about my receding hairline, my chest hair, or my less than adequate anatomy ("Gawd, he's smaller hard than my BF is soft.") I'm going to be none the wiser. I mean c'mon everyone, don't you talk in a derogatory tone about people you have to deal with at work behind their backs? Namely when they demand high maintenence from you?
Call me nuts, but if I had to deal with the sort of people that dancers do on a nightly basis, then I'd grow a little bitter to the world too. I mean hell, they rip their claws as much into each other, or the staff/mangagment at their clubs as much as they do us.
It's just venting that they have to do to keep themselves sane in a very insane business. I wouldn't read any more into it than that.
-
Re: I've been reading the pink side again. :(
Much is being made of my so-called "theory" of the dancers hating us. And I haven't had much disagreement with any of the points made. I get the positive experiences all the time, too, doc. Of course, it NEEDs to be a positive experience, otherwise why repeat it, over and over and over :) and, of course, there are exceptions to the rule and there needs to be the ability to discount this to ensure that positive experience. If we want to turn our backs on this, or call it venting, or just choose to not think it isn't valid, I am right there with you. I want to think this as much as anyone.
However, all one needs to do to have that belief hammered is read the pink side. I am not forming or espousing a theory I have developed from years of careful research and extrapolation. I am simply referring to what I see there. Which is why the subject of this thread has the frowny face. *shrug* that's all I am sayin...
-gen
-
Re: I've been reading the pink side again. :(
Gen: While you and may differ on some of what we require in the club. I do believe that you usually get what you put out in the club. If you are respectful - and I believe you are, that usually comes back to you. I just don't have the desire to be liked by all, but there is nothing wrong with wanting that. I really don't have the energy , or perhaps personality, to accomplish that in a world full of attitude. Happy clubbing!
-
Re: I've been reading the pink side again. :(
Some dancers can be pretty damned evil.So can some customers.There are some good dancers and some good customers.You cant judge every dancer as the last nor can us dancers judge every customer as the last.This girl did something really dishonest.There are people like that everywhere not just dancers in a stripclub.There are even preachers in church who rip off their own congregations.There is just fucked up people.Just watch out for yourself and scams and it wont happen to you.Dont let it bother you to where it ruins your outlook on things and your fun in the club.
-
Re: I've been reading the pink side again. :(
Jay's got a good point, but so does GenWar. Everybody deserves a rant, and none of us who dislikes a client or a boss will tell them to their faces. Some of the dancers may actually like us, but the ones who don't aren't going to tell us.
The thief herself is laughable, trying to justify what she did. But the "you go girl" responses are disconcerting. Sure the guy insulted her and asked her to violate the law. But stealing from a jerk is stealing.
Hats off to the dancers who told her she was out of line. Wish the ratio had been more heavily in that direction.
-
Re: I've been reading the pink side again. :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by casaubon1
The thief herself is laughable, trying to justify what she did. But the "you go girl" responses are disconcerting. Sure the guy insulted her and asked her to violate the law. But stealing from a jerk is stealing.
For the record, they both committed criminal acts. If he had been an undercover cop, she would have been arrested for prostitution or theft. If she had been an undercover cop, he would have been arrested for seeking prostitution.
-Ev
-
Re: I've been reading the pink side again. :(
it's still completely idiotic to lump us all into one catagory. "i know -they- hate us".
first of all... there is no "they" and there is no "us".
i'm not "every stripper" and you're not "every customer" no one is.
and BTW i made a very nice "thank you" post a month or so ago on the pink side directed to respectfull customers. it's funny that those kinds of posts are never brought up over here.
-
Re: I've been reading the pink side again. :(
I don't have the patience to read the thread being discussed, but I'm sure I can guess what it's all about. There are quite a few threads that have come up on the pink side where I'm not quite comfortable with the high-fiving, mainly to do with taking advantage of the stupid, the impaired, or the emotionally bereft. Perhaps my conscience is what kept me from being an ace stripper? I'll never know. I do know this:
When I was doing cater-waitering for a living for about a year (this was a while back), I got stuck in coat check at a corporate Xmas party one night. I had a terrible cold at the time, but my boss was short on staff, so he begged me to come to work, and I did. There was a a woman who was a complete and utter c*nt to me. So I blew a giant green infectious booger in a tissue, and I put it in her pocket as a little "gift" for her when she returned. I felt quite good about it. In fact, I still do. Should I feel guilty about that?