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"Sweetie, I don't do half songs."
And note "half" here, may not neccesarily be half. It could be two-thirds, three-quarters, nine-tenths, etc.
I've been seeing an increase in this semi-scam over the past couple of years, and after reading some TUSCL reviews the past few days, it seems I'm not alone in this observation.
You know, when the gal takes you back to the lap dance area, where you think you're going to get acquainted or chat for a minute or two waiting for the next song, and then one of the following things happen:
1. She leads you into the lap room while a song is playing, starts dancing, and expects full price for what was only a partial song. Most gals I've seen pull this only jip you for about 15 seconds or so, but some have been brazen enough to do it a full minute in. Great way for a gal to give herself a tip. Of course, its a great way to lose continued business as well, which you think would be far greater than that $2-5 worth of time they jip you.
2. She explicitly asks if you she can dance for the remainder of this song for half the price of a dance. Of course, by the time this is asked, you may very well be over the halfway point. (Considering some of the weird ass techno music that SC's often play, its hard to tell sometimes).
3. She simply starts dancing halfway through, and gives you a full song, stopping at the "halfway" point of the next song. Of course, you're so nervous that you're not going to get your money's worth, its hard to enjoy the dance.
And it even seems the more professional dancers are noticing this too. (You know, the ones who will sit and talk for a couple of minutes) some of whom explicitly tell you, "We'll wait for the next song, so you get a full one. You gotta be careful because some gals here aren't doing that".) Now doesn't that kind of attitude just help you relax with her a bit?
So have any of you experienced an increase of gals trying to pull this on you, (or at least try), and if so what did you do? With respect to the first scenario, what did you/would you do if cut time aside, the dance turned out to be pretty good?
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Re: "Sweetie, I don't do half songs."
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3. She simply starts dancing halfway through, and gives you a full song, stopping at the "halfway" point of the next song. Of course, you're so nervous that you're not going to get your money's worth, its hard to enjoy the dance.
I'll start at the half song, and go through to halfway through the next song- sometimes the end, if I don't know the song. Over a shift, those 1/2 songs add up!
I'll throw in the extra half song if they buy at least two (ie I'll start the second dance at the start of the third song), but I'm seriously not losing sleep about the guy who's so cheap that he's worried about not getting his 'money's worth'! If he doesn't buy from me again, so be it- the time I'm not with the cheap-o customer is time I spend meeting quality customers.
It's totally lame and brazen if a girl starts halfway through a song and then stops at the end of that song...I'll give you that...but I don't see a problem with the example above. I'm pretty impressed with the fact that you'll actually sit there worrying during a lapdance. Wow.
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Re: "Sweetie, I don't do half songs."
I am so in agreement, Doc.
I hate the 'half-song'. If I have good rapport with the dancer, I might do an 'ask' like Jay. Typically, I am not comfortable doing that.
The other problem with me is that I am a fan of/student of popular music. Most of the songs that you guys are lamenting are ones that I know intimately. I usually know the rough length of the song and can mentally calculate the amount of time remaining. I mean, I am no Hudson Hawk, but I can usually call it within 10 seconds. So, when you know that she is starting to dance with 1 minute 40 seconds left of a 4 minute song, you are even more bugged by it...:-\
I usually just ride it out and let it happen.Then I react accordingly...
1. If she gives me half a song and calls it a full song, then I have had my dances from her. I pay for the one and cut my losses. My thought is, continuing to buy dances would only reward that sort of behavior, which I don't find acceptable.
2. If she goes to mid song to mid song, then I just try not to be so anal and enjoy the dances for what they are. I resolve to time my acquiesence better. After all, I usually control when the dance begins by giving in to the sale, right?
3. If she waits, then I make note that I owe her an extra. She respects my value then I will respect her needs.
4. If she starts immediately and goes a song and a half and then calls it 'one,' then she has literally ruined it for any other non-favs in the club. My night of random sampling is over and she will have any money that the local fav doesn't take. In fact, she is eligible for becoming a fav herself.
Good post...this *IS* one of the things that has been bothering me lately.
-gen
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Re: "Sweetie, I don't do half songs."
Maybe we should carry around egg timers to make sure you guys get your money's worth. ;)
Is it that you want the OCD completeness of 'song start to song end', or that you want a particular amount of time? What if a girl started 2 minutes into a long-ass techno song, and went to the end, having danced a total of 5 minutes. Are you less satisfied than if a girl dances to a full song, but it's a 3:00 song?
And would an egg timer turn you off?
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Re: "Sweetie, I don't do half songs."
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Originally Posted by doc-catfish
So have any of you experienced an increase of gals trying to pull this on you, (or at least try), and if so what did you do?
no. most of them don't start the clock until the next song. i can only recall a couple of instances. however, when it did happen. i called her on her scam and pulled out the tiproll. i let her get a good look at all the cash, then i balled up the $20 and dropped on the floor as if it were a piece of lint and left. hey, if someone wants to show how big of an ass they can be. well, i can be a bigger one.
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Originally Posted by doc-catfish
With respect to the first scenario, what did you/would you do if cut time aside, the dance turned out to be pretty good?
the interesting thing is that on the times that it did happen the dances were pretty lame. OTOH, if the stripper knows how to earn my money. i wouldn't notice or be even be bothered by it. for example, it may have happened plenty of times with the girls in the rotation. do i care? not really. 1)they all know to skip the lame "striptease" routine and strip down to their bare asses and get to work. 2) i'm a fairly consistent customer. so, if i spent, say, $300 in laps the last time. i'll spend the same amount (or more) the next time. the extra $20 is not that big of a deal to me. 3) most important of all, i've been known to waste a song or two recovering my senses (pant..puff...puff...did anyone get the plate number of that mack truck that just hit me?) from a severe case of dehydration.
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Re: "Sweetie, I don't do half songs."
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Originally Posted by scarlett_vancouver
Maybe we should carry around egg timers to make sure you guys get your money's worth. ;)
Is it that you want the OCD completeness of 'song start to song end', or that you want a particular amount of time? What if a girl started 2 minutes into a long-ass techno song, and went to the end, having danced a total of 5 minutes. Are you less satisfied than if a girl dances to a full song, but it's a 3:00 song?
And would an egg timer turn you off?
Speaking strictly for myself, I don't know if it is the time so much as it is the issue of operating from the same page. The dance is advertised as $20 per song (excepting, of course, those places where it isn't) and that is the expected service. It allows the ground rules to be established and agreements to be understood. Knowing the rules makes it a crisper, cleaner transaction and protects the dancer as much as, if not more, than the customer.
Custy's are a fickle lot. Hell, when Paige danced for me, it took me until the second song to realize that I didn't even know how much they cost (nor did I care. 8) ) I would think that anything that keeps the structure in place would be welcome.
Really, for me, when you get right down to it, it doesn't matter. As long as you aren't being disrespectful, the time isn't THAT relevant. I mean, I just need to pay my debts, that's what it's all about.
-gen
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Re: "Sweetie, I don't do half songs."
they teach exactly what we complain about in the hustle hut =p
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Re: "Sweetie, I don't do half songs."
A dance that ends mid-song is like a snap back to reality or someone waking me up while I'm in a deep sleep. It makes no difference to me if songs are 5 mins or 3 mins. A song is a song and I know that going in before I buy. I would like a dance to end when the song ends though as I basically enjoy, evaluate then decide if I want to buy another at different points in a song. To have a dance end in the middle of the song would throw me off this routine and would force me to make a decision on the spot before I was ready. More often than not, I end up declining in these cases.
A dancer who waits the half song for the beginning of the next song will get credit for a full song from me and will receive it on top of whatever I had decided to tip. A dancer who dances half a song but tries to collect for a full song will not receive future business.
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Re: "Sweetie, I don't do half songs."
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Originally Posted by scarlett_vancouver
Maybe we should carry around egg timers to make sure you guys get your money's worth. ;)
Is it that you want the OCD completeness of 'song start to song end', or that you want a particular amount of time? What if a girl started 2 minutes into a long-ass techno song, and went to the end, having danced a total of 5 minutes. Are you less satisfied than if a girl dances to a full song, but it's a 3:00 song?
And would an egg timer turn you off?
Seems like after awhile some dances lose touch with reality. We work hard for our money too Scarlett, nothing wrong with wanting value in return for it.
Do you go to a steakhouse and pay full price for half a steak? I'm guessing not.
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Re: "Sweetie, I don't do half songs."
I think her point might have been that a "whole song" is not necessarily a better value than half a song - that many clubs that don't cut music have some songs significantly longer than others, and that as long as you get a certain amount of time there is not real reason not to be happy.
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Re: "Sweetie, I don't do half songs."
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Seems like after awhile some dances lose touch with reality. We work hard for our money too Scarlett, nothing wrong with wanting value in return for it.
Do you go to a steakhouse and pay full price for half a steak? I'm guessing not.
Yeah, I don't think you quite got my point.
FWIW, I never rip anyone off. Sometimes I wait for the next song, sometimes I start right away. Frankly, if it's busy, you're an out of towner, and I can tell you only want one song (I can usually tell), it makes no sense to me to waste my time waiting. That half song is what I'll use to get another guy in there so I can start at the beginning of the next one.
I can see the point about being 'jolted back to reality', but I like to think I have a bit of finesse; I'll usually say something like "should I keep going after this song ends" or whatever, because like I said, I'll throw in the half song if he buys in multiples. I'd often rather dance than struggle through small talk anyways.
I will keep in mind to be more sensitive to the needs of the budget conscious customer though.
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Re: "Sweetie, I don't do half songs."
you know, i'm sure strippers or customers don't come equipped with metronomes implanted in their foreheads calibrated to gauge the length of a song down to the last millisecond. which makes it's a guessing game for both parties. in any case, the cliff notes version on the "Rules of Clubbing" says: 1st rule) he who haveth the tiproll maketh the rules. 2nd rule) see rule 1.
IOW, if waiting until the next song makes the customer happy...just do it...no matter how anal you think they're being about the issue. And, if the next dance is actually better than the last. well, it won't be an issue because he'll buy more dances. of course, i realize customer service is a foreign concept to many. so, i'm probably wasting my breath. but hey, when you go to a sc and pony up the cheese for dances. you can be anal about it too.
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Originally Posted by scarlett_vancouver
I will keep in mind to be more sensitive to the needs of the budget conscious customer though.
mmmm...the fragrant aroma of female passive-aggressiveness. subtle, yet with a hint of male castration underneath. why, i haven't heard anything this classy from a woman, since i was downing shots at the bowling alley last week.
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Re: "Sweetie, I don't do half songs."
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Originally Posted by scarlett_vancouver
I will keep in mind to be more sensitive to the needs of the budget conscious customer though.
I guess I don't understand/:O. How is it being budget conscious to want full value for the money you spend? It seems very logical to me.
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Re: "Sweetie, I don't do half songs."
I think Scarlett makes a very valid point. I don't understand what is the big deal with the absolute need for a FULL SONG, especially in a situation where it's a REALLY long song in the first place, and even if the dancer starts a little late you are still getting the same amount of time (or more) as if she danced a FULL shorter song. If you guys wanna complain about short dances, time them. If your dance lasts less than 3 minutes, you've got a problem. If it's at least 3 minutes and you still have a complaint about her not dancing a COMPLETE SONG, you're just being a crybaby.
I have had guys bitch when I stopped in the middle of a 9 minute song. Do yall REALLY expect us to just dance endlessly for one dance if the idiotic club management doesn't see fit to cut songs at the same length?? Please. 9 minutes is a 3for1 and considering no one agreed to that kinda deal going in, you shouldn't expect it just out of "luck" ::) Or the 4.5 minute dance-and-a-half. 90% of guys don't tip or even appreciate when we spend that extra time, so why should we oblige?
I am fortunate enough to work in clubs that cut the songs to about the same length, so this is not a problem for me. I just start and stop at the beginnings and ends. Makes life simple.
But I've worked in clubs where one song could be 3 minutes and the next could literally be 9. So the guy who happened to get his dance on the 3 minute song feels shafted, and the 9 minute guy figures he struck the jackpot, until I stop in the middle, at which time he also feels shafted. Of course if I dance the full 9 minutes, then I'm shafted. So for the girls it's a losing battle no matter how you cut it.
I'm not in any way defending the girls who really DO cut their dances short. That is just bad business IMO.
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Re: "Sweetie, I don't do half songs."
Well, you don't have to know the songs to understand when it's going waaaaayy longer than a normal song, or that the time was roughly the same. Yall sure seem to know if the time is short, so how do you not know if it's roughly equal or more??
If you order a $5 sandwich at Joint A and it's a half pound of meat, then order a $5 sandwich at Joint B and it's only a half one, but it's still a half pound of meat - are you gonna bitch that you didn't get your money's worth? Now we could split hairs and say you expected it to be more at Joint B, but that's not the point. The point is, if you're getting the same volume for same price, what's the problem?
And, a deal being a deal and all. Yeah well, when a standard in most places is a certain amount of time for a certain amount of money, how can you expect more than the standard just because it's not the end of a song? Come on boys. Yall know this is just petty whining.
**Edit: Wuut da hayell?? Jay, did you delete your post? It was there a minute ago :D
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Originally Posted by GenWar
If she goes to mid song to mid song, then I just try not to be so anal and enjoy the dances for what they are.
There you go. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
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Re: "Sweetie, I don't do half songs."
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I guess I don't understand. How is it being budget conscious to want full value for the money you spend? It seems very logical to me.
Because I wasn't suggesting giving anything less than full value. Maybe go back and read my posts?
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Re: "Sweetie, I don't do half songs."
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Originally Posted by scarlett_vancouver
Maybe we should carry around egg timers to make sure you guys get your money's worth. ;)
Is it that you want the OCD completeness of 'song start to song end', or that you want a particular amount of time? What if a girl started 2 minutes into a long-ass techno song, and went to the end, having danced a total of 5 minutes. Are you less satisfied than if a girl dances to a full song, but it's a 3:00 song?
And would an egg timer turn you off?
The actual time is not the issue for me. Therefore, the egg timer wouldn't help. Dances should be "song start to song end." Anything else screws up the natural balance of the strip club.
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Re: "Sweetie, I don't do half songs."
I've actually worked in clubs that worked on a timer - bouncer sets a timer when you go in the room, and 5 minutes later knocks (or just walks in, which really fucking ticked me off). Music has nothing to do with it. There is no such thing as natural balance.
I did do a dance to a song that I swear was like 2 minutes long. I barely got my pants off when it was over. The fact that I danced a whole song was not particularly comforting under those circumstances. Similarly I knew a girl whose entire set was 1 song - about 12 minutes long. No customer in his right mind would insist that was one dance.
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Re: "Sweetie, I don't do half songs."
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Originally Posted by scarlett_vancouver
Because I wasn't suggesting giving anything less than full value. Maybe go back and read my posts?
I read your posts and while I do agree that you aren't suggesting that anyone give less than full value, you are implying that we have no right to complain when we do in fact get less than full value, that it is somehow being cheap and petty to even bring it up, that's what I have issue with.
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Re: "Sweetie, I don't do half songs."
Since most clubs use the the $10 or $20 a "dance" model, it would seem to me that ideally the club owners should figure out what the nominal length of a dance is, and require the DJ to pick songs that either are about that long, or remix them to make them about that long, or if the song is very long, don't use that music or fade it out at the nominal time.
I realize that would make the DJ have to work a little harder (who cares), but obviously on the extreme ends it doesn't work if the DJ is picking 1 minute songs, or 12 minute songs. Somewhere between ridiculously short and ridiculously long the DJ should be responsible for picking songs that are about nominal length.
I don't see any real difference between expecting the DJs to do this and say expecting people who work at McDonalds to know what the normal portions are each item on the menu. There is no reason the customer should have to watch their own back and make sure they are getting their money's worth. And as for the Dancers, if the DJ is playing ultra-long songs... complain to the DJ and management, that sounds like the DJ is brain dead. This shouldn't turn into a customer problem.
As for the half dance thing. I've never known to a stripper to object to waiting until the start of the next song or two before beginning.
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Re: "Sweetie, I don't do half songs."
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Originally Posted by Richard_Head
you are implying that we have no right to complain when we do in fact get less than full value, that it is somehow being cheap and petty to even bring it up, that's what I have issue with.
FUCK!! I just wrote a great reply and it dissapeared!
Oh well, condensed version you have every right to complain. In fact, isn't that what you all are doing right now?
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Re: "Sweetie, I don't do half songs."
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I read your posts and while I do agree that you aren't suggesting that anyone give less than full value, you are implying that we have no right to complain when we do in fact get less than full value, that it is somehow being cheap and petty to even bring it up, that's what I have issue with.
I do think it's kind of cheap, but not in a way that should be insulting. I'm a proud cheap-ass.
And I think you have the right to complain, but I also think you should look at it from the dancers POV before deciding that you are unequivocally 'right'.
I will continue to do half to half when it's appropriate; if it makes a guy uncomfortable, all he has to do is tell me so and I'll wait. But if he doesn't say anything, why should I waste that half song, just on the off chance that he's a blue baller that might be annoyed but too [insert adjective] to say something??
Over a night, those half songs can cost me hundreds. Further, even if I do lose repeat dances, that half song gives me time to grab a new custy, and start at the beginning of the next song, so it's not really me who loses out...;)
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Re: "Sweetie, I don't do half songs."
You guys have to see Scarlett working to appreciate this - she really never sits down. I will admit that generally in my personal dance experience the half song won't make or break me, but I can see that for some people it could add up to quite a lot - like well over $100 a night.
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Re: "Sweetie, I don't do half songs."
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Originally Posted by scarlett_vancouver
It's totally lame and brazen if a girl starts halfway through a song and then stops at the end of that song...I'll give you that...but I don't see a problem with the example above. I'm pretty impressed with the fact that you'll actually sit there worrying during a lapdance. Wow.
Why do I worry? Because I've had a few gals brazen enough to pull that stunt. So when I have another dancer do something that looks eerily similar, aren't I well justified to think "ooh boy, here we go again", even if she eventually follows through and gives me full value for my money. I mean, if you had an unpleasant past experience with a customer, and a present customer does something that triggers memories of that, wouldn't you be nervous?
Granted, I understand that your time is money, and that I am expected to pay the bill in full when it comes due, but a lap dance is supposed to be an experience for a customer that a dancer should try to prolong as long as possible. Part of the art of a dancer's job is suspend the notion that its about the money for the duration of her time with that customer. If a gal conveys to me before we even get started that every waking second of her time has to be compensated for, its going to be difficult to do that.
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Originally Posted by scarlett_vancouver
I will keep in mind to be more sensitive to the needs of the budget conscious customer though.
But I'm not talking about a customer whom you know is going to be a one- and-done, I'm talking the guy who could very well buy a double digit sum of dances, but wants out after one to cut his losses if he doesn't like what he sees. Its not really a budget matter, as it is a matter of shortsightedness, namely forgoing multiple sales and potential future business, for a comparitively smaller short term gain.
I really think some dancers don't take into account how much our comfort level matters when it comes to getting us to buy multiple dances or upgrading to the VIP room. You'd be amazed at what getting us to relax during that off the clock 60 seconds prior to the first song can do. There are enough gals out there who will give me that 60 seconds to warm up, so why should I take my business back to a gal whom upon my last experience with her, would not. We're not paying $20-25/song for a fire drill exercise after all.
And with regards to the egg timer, no I wouldn't be offended at all. In fact, its a good idea if you think about it.
;)
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Re: "Sweetie, I don't do half songs."
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Originally Posted by kdogg247
Dances should be "song start to song end."
when i'm buying multiples. sometimes, strippers aren't always sure how many songs she actually sold. sometimes, they have to check and make sure, etc. still, by counting song start to song end. if he's so inclined, the customer can also count along and have an idea of how many songs he bought without her input. i think it would be difficult for them to keep track otherwise.
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Originally Posted by xdamage
There is no reason the customer should have to watch their own back and make sure they are getting their money's worth.
well, i'm not going to count songs (whether half-to-half or full songs) along with the stripper. for me, it's a question of blood flow. it's kinda hard to keep track of dances while one is busy suckling a nipple and she's powering up the gameboy by rubbing her hand over it.