California is finally figuring it out
ESCONDIDO, California (Reuters) - Local authorities in this California city are set to vote on a controversial measure on Wednesday to prohibit landlords from renting to illegal immigrants, a law opponents say is racist.
Racist? Seems more anti-criminal to me.
Re: California is finally figuring it out
GOD DAMMIT! Why does everyone act like enforcing a huge fucking law that just happens to be most commonly broken by Mexican citizens make us all racists? If mostly Asian people murder, and we put them in prison for murdering, are we racist against asians?
The race card is a lame argument to use because they're breaking the law.
edited to add: And it's not even about race! It's about NATIONALITY, two very different concepts!
Re: California is finally figuring it out
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Originally Posted by TheSexKitten
GOD DAMMIT! Why does everyone act like enforcing a huge fucking law that just happens to be most commonly broken by Mexican citizens make us all racists?
My guess is that the sentiment comes from the fact that there seems to be ZERO public opposition to ANY other group of people here illegally. The problem is the selective opposition.
There are lots of eastern block people (for example) here illegally, especially in areas like NYC. Plenty of illegal people of Asian decent in S.F. and the Pacific Northwest too. Yet all we EVER hear are moans and groans of the dirty Mexican nature. That is why there are so many claims of racism.
While I get the fact that Mexicans make up the largest group of illegal immigrants- I can't help but think that maybe if the public out cry on illegal immigrants encompassed some people of other races or nationality (or even ALL illegal immigrants) and not just Mexican and ONLY Mexicans there would be far few charges of racism or bigotry.
Re: California is finally figuring it out
Yawn....
It's been tried before and found unconstitutional.
Yawn....
Re: California is finally figuring it out
^ Only in Arizona. It's alive in PA and OH...and spreading.
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Yet all we EVER hear are moans and groans of the dirty Mexican nature.
Because there are millions upon millions of Mexicans invading the US; 73-78% of illegal immigration in the last 15 years has been from Mexico. We can't pretend the magnitude of the problem is the same with illegal Chinese and Russian immigrants in NYC.
Re: California is finally figuring it out
^ When there are NEVER complaints about any other race or nationality breaking immigration laws it begins to take on tone of bigotry or racism against the group being targeted.
If the focus was on illiegal immigration in general and not 100% focused on just one and only one group ( even if it is the largest) of illegal immigrants there would be less claims of racism.
You would get closer to your goal if you focused on the ISSUE rather than only one demographic of people.
Food for thought .
Re: California is finally figuring it out
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Originally Posted by Fan_Dancer
My guess is that the sentiment comes from the fact that there seems to be ZERO public opposition to ANY other group of people here illegally. The problem is the selective opposition.
There are lots of eastern block people (for example) here illegally, especially in areas like NYC. Plenty of illegal people of Asian decent in S.F. and the Pacific Northwest too. Yet all we EVER hear are moans and groans of the dirty Mexican nature. That is why there are so many claims of racism.
While I get the fact that Mexicans make up the largest group of illegal immigrants- I can't help but think that maybe if the public out cry on illegal immigrants encompassed some people of other races or nationality (or even ALL illegal immigrants) and not just Mexican and ONLY Mexicans there would be far few charges of racism or bigotry.
Lies.
Quit playing the racism card. I read articles all the time over eastern european, chinese, etc. being ejected from the country and I have no problem with that.
This kind of thinking is going to put the republicans back in power that much longer - you can't go around screaming "racist! racist!" when people are mumbling "Damn - lotta foreigners standing around in the home depot. I can barely drive in there!"
Re: California is finally figuring it out
You will hear more people screaming about the Eastern European or Asian illegals when they make up 70-80% of the illegal immigration in this country, or when we can see videos of HUNDREDS of them literally walking across the border daily, or when every business suddenly has Russian or Chinese translation ::) Until then, you will mostly hear people bitching about the Mexicans, because that's who surrounds us on a daily basis.
I wish renting to, or issuing ID to, or otherwise making it easier for illegals to stay here, would become a FEDERAL offense. That makes the most sense. Since it is FEDERAL immigration laws they are being allowed and encouraged to break.
Here in Phoenix, I've seen a large upswing in the number of obviously illegal strippers since our stripper license law went into effect, because they don't require proof of eligibility to work to get the stripper license. Any regular ID will do (which the illegals can easily get), and the only checks that are done are for open warrents or prostitution charges. Then at the clubs, as long as they have their stripper license, they're good to go. No other ID is required. This stupidass law is HELPING more illegals come here and work as strippers - further exacerbating the fast-growing problem of stripper-flooding, with chics who aren't even supposed to LIVE here, much less WORK here. :mad:
Load the fuckers up and haul their asses back to where ever they came from, I say.
Re: California is finally figuring it out
There's another angle that people don't see right away & it has nothing to do with the illegals themselves. The agribusiness sector depends on cheap undocumented labor. California is the Bread Basket of America.
See:
No matter whether the U.S. government does what it should in terms of documenting foreign workers of all trades, migrant labor in Southwestern states with a large agribusiness base is a fact of life. The responsibility/cost of proper documentation & workplace OSHA compliance will fall to the growers and the government (i.e. your tax dollars at work.) While this might annoy you, consider the fact that the average American eats 2-3 times a day. Food is a commodity that cannot be done without. Agribusiness NEEDS those migrant workers more than the migrant workers need the American agribusiness industry.
Mexicans will not curl up and die without American jobs. If that was the case I would not be typing this post out for you to read. My family did not immigrate from Mexico until the 1970s. Mexicans do not send money home to spite Americans. They do so because their culture is to "take care of your own".
Every time I find out about Mexicans dying while trying to cross the border it hurts me. No human should be put in the position to be at such risk for a paltry seasonal wage. I DO want reform of immigration policy. But don't think that migrant workers are going to disappear. Put yourself in their shoes or at least be thankful they helped put food on your table. If you have the largesse of spirit to do so.....
Re: California is finally figuring it out
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/n...-6n5immig.html
If I read right its been approved locally. I wonder how it will effect Escondidos renters? I wonder if all the illegals will move somewhere else in SD where they can be approved for renting? I agree with Bridgette.... ship em back all estimated 11 million of them.
Re: California is finally figuring it out
Eliminate the jobs.
Eliminate the housing.
Eliminate the welfare.
Eliminate the schooling.
They will go back on their own.
Re: California is finally figuring it out
The annual cost of deporting them would be over 40 billion dollars:
Using publicly available data, we estimate the costs of a mass deportation effort to be at least $206 billion over five years ($41.2 billion annually), and could be as high as $230 billion or more. Spending $41.2 billion annually would exceed the entire budget of the Department of Homeland Security for FY 2006 ($34.2 billion) and more than double the annual cost of military operations in Afghanistan ($16.8 billion).
It just isn't practical as is explained by the Homeland Security Secretary, Michael Chertoff
It should also be noted that the annual cost to deport these people is 4 times greater than the cost of them being in this country.
This study is one of the first to estimate the total impact of illegal immigration on the federal budget. Most previous studies have focused on the state and local level and have examined only costs or tax payments, but not both. Based on Census Bureau data, this study finds that, when all taxes paid (direct and indirect) and all costs are considered, illegal households created a net fiscal deficit at the federal level of more than $10 billion
It is also interesting to note the following:
The study acknowledged that, on average, the costs that illegal-immigrant households bear on the federal government are less than half that of other households, and that many of those costs relate to their U.S.-born children. It also pointed out that tax payments by illegal-immigrant households constitute one-fourth those of other households because of low-income jobs.
Now add in what they spend on services and everyday items such as phone service and food, clothes etc. if you deport them you are taking out a chunk out of the economy too which would increase the annual cost to US taxpayers if they were deported by more than 4 times what it is costing to have them here in the first place.
Not to mention the human/moral cost of sending people back to places where they and their children go hungry and uneducated on a regular basis( I know that matters to some of us more than others but it is still a fact to be considered)
Conclusion: You might want to re-thing the idea of "shipping them back where they came from" as the end all solution to the problem.
Re: California is finally figuring it out
I always have to ask, when talking about cost of letting them stay vs. cost of shipping them out, what's the COST to our economy? Welfare, jail, school, subsidies, jobs, etc etc etc. I am of the opinion that without the cheap labor, the economy will adjust and we'll be just fine in the long run, if not BETTER.
I don't care where the illegals come from. I just don't want them here. That's all. Come here LEGALLY and contribute to our society and economy LEGALLY or stay at home and burden your own country. We can't afford to continue on the current track.
Re: California is finally figuring it out
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Agribusiness NEEDS those migrant workers more than the migrant workers need the American agribusiness industry.
And the result of this reality is that as agribusiness hasn't kept pace in compensation, illegals have started moving to services and construction--formerly union-dominated industries. And I would do the same, frankly.
Agribusiness bitches about migrant worker availability, but does nothing to attract more legal/native workers (i.e. through competitive wages). Ironically, Mexicans hire Guatemalans to do much of their own produce production.
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Not to mention the human/moral cost of sending people back to places where they and their children go hungry and uneducated on a regular basis( I know that matters to some of us more than others but it is still a fact to be considered)
Setting aside the fact that we have taken part in mass deportations before (and far more cost-effectively than the speculative numbers posted above), how long can we continue to import Latin American poverty into the US on the basis of ostensibly humanitarian concerns? What's an acceptable number? Using this criterion, there would be no limit--until, of course, the standard of living in the US declines to a level roughly equal of the home nations of these poor people. Is that what we want?
I feel for Mexicans and can easily understand why el Norte is so attractive; if the PRI ran the US for 70 years, we'd be a disaster too. Thus begging the question; why continue to make huge sections of this country like Mexico?
Re: California is finally figuring it out
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Originally Posted by madmaxine
Mexicans will not curl up and die without American jobs. If that was the case I would not be typing this post out for you to read. My family did not immigrate from Mexico until the 1970s. Mexicans do not send money home to spite Americans. They do so because their culture is to "take care of your own".
Every time I find out about Mexicans dying while trying to cross the border it hurts me. No human should be put in the position to be at such risk for a paltry seasonal wage. I DO want reform of immigration policy. But don't think that migrant workers are going to disappear. Put yourself in their shoes or at least be thankful they helped put food on your table. If you have the largesse of spirit to do so.....
You said what was on my mind. I see these threads all the time but don't bother looking into them much. My family also came here in the 1970's and I too wish that there would some sort of reform on the immigration policy, but this problem isn't going to go away anytime soon and no human being is going to be "shipped back" anywhere. Just wish there was a perfect solution to the problem. oh well.
Re: California is finally figuring it out
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Originally Posted by Casual Observer
Setting aside the fact that we have taken part in mass deportations before (and far more cost-effectively than the speculative numbers posted above), how long can we continue to import Latin American poverty into the US on the basis of ostensibly humanitarian concerns? What's an acceptable number? Using this criterion, there would be no limit--until, of course, the standard of living in the US declines to a level roughly equal of the home nations of these poor people. Is that what we want?
I feel for Mexicans and can easily understand why el Norte is so attractive; if the PRI ran the US for 70 years, we'd be a disaster too. Thus begging the question; why continue to make huge sections of this country like Mexico?
Exactly. Why ruin our own country for the sake of "helping" foreigners? Because in the long run, we won't be helping ANYONE.
Re: California is finally figuring it out
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Originally Posted by Bridgette
Exactly. Why ruin our own country for the sake of "helping" foreigners?
Well the national debate in this case is that many people don't see "helping" these foreigners as ruining our country. I understand that you see it that way, but alot of people (myself included) do not. I see there are some problems, sure. But I also see how they add positive things too. I'd like to find a balance between the two that doesn't include sending people to starve in another nation.
I truly believe that as long as it is harder and takes longer to immigrate or come here to work in a legal manner than an illegal one nothing will be solved. No fence is going to stop people's will to survive. If being here means the difference between living a good and happy life or not they will find a way to get here no matter if it is legal or not.
If we make easier and faster to be here legally they will come legally. The vast majority of them are good people and I welcome them in the same spirit as our nation expresses at The Statue of Liberty.
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
It is the above concept that has made our country beloved around the world and we should not abandon it because of greed, fear or bigotry (whatever the invidual case may be)
Re: California is finally figuring it out
OK, so some say you don't rely on cheap mexican labor - try paying $5 for lettuce - see the connection.
It's a known fact our federal gov't "looks the other way" everyday when migrant workers cross the border - BECAUSE OUR NATIONAL ECONOMY ABSOLUTELY DEPENDS ON IT AS SUCH.
When everyone can roam the earth freely and vote with our feet like companies who outsource do, then wages will go up.
Illegals for the most part are more law abiding people in my opinion, and hate to generalize, but mexican culture has strong community and family values, what's the problem?
We as first worlders believe we should have the right to travel to Europe, Japan, Thailand. So, why shouldn't Mexican people? Because history and chance had their embryo be born south of the Rio.
Tha day anyone of you bitchers go into a pesticide loaded field with no convenient toilet in the hot ass sun for chump change even for one day I'll listen to one thing you say!
Re: California is finally figuring it out
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Originally Posted by kittygirl
OK, so some say you don't rely on cheap mexican labor - try paying $5 for lettuce - see the connection.
Yep, that is what they said about potatos. Practically totally mechanized. In fact, the same machine can pick practically any kind of root whether it is a radish or a carrot.
That is what they said about wheat - I think we all know what a combine looks like.
P.S. - Lettace can be picked by mechanized machines these days too. If they can mechanize 80% of the wine production - I think they can do a bit of mechanization of a lot of things.
One might even figure since there is so much mechanization this is the reason harvesters are going into construction, light assembly, meat packing, etc. that use to be citizen jobs.
This is a false argument.
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It's a known fact our federal gov't "looks the other way" everyday when migrant workers cross the border - BECAUSE OUR NATIONAL ECONOMY ABSOLUTELY DEPENDS ON IT AS SUCH.
Yep - a lot of us are saying our economy is effected by it. Just look at the 80 hospitals in the LA area that have been closed because they couldn't afford to keep them open.
Or how about the kids stuffed into travel trailer like school rooms... Or... the list has gone on.
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When everyone can roam the earth freely and vote with our feet like companies who outsource do, then wages will go up.
I have to agree with you there.
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Illegals for the most part are more law abiding people in my opinion, and hate to generalize, but mexican culture has strong community and family values, what's the problem?
We as first worlders believe we should have the right to travel to Europe, Japan, Thailand. So, why shouldn't Mexican people? Because history and chance had their embryo be born south of the Rio.
Visiting is one thing. Moving there is another. And just ask LillithMorgan about her adventures in Aussieland trying to be legal. She didn't just move there and start working.
You have your eyes closed about a lot of what is happening on the border by "law abiding" citizens. All you want to see is Jose and his family, but the rest of us see Juan and his "new slaves" as well as MS 13 member Jesus and his bags of mary jane and heroin and cocaine and ...
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Tha day anyone of you bitchers go into a pesticide loaded field with no convenient toilet in the hot ass sun for chump change even for one day I'll listen to one thing you say!
Been there, done that - and roofed too!