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Re: Got in trouble for using "we'll have more privacy and intimacy in the VIP room"!
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Originally Posted by
Bridgette
You know what others have said about you? That you act like some god. ugh
...and that's their prerogative. I'm not a god, nor do I claim to be the end-all-be-all of sales knowledge. I learn things on a daily basis...literally. As a wise Buddhist teacher once said, "We teach what we most need to learn." I do, though, know a lot about the topic of sales. I'm not saying this arrogantly, I'm saying this confidently. Numerous times I have made statements in the HH and have been offered counterpoints and have changed my opinion when presented with a better one.
So, back on topic please...
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Re: Got in trouble for using "we'll have more privacy and intimacy in the VIP room"!
It comes off arrogantly. And yeah, you generally present yourself as the end-all-be-all. It's part of your hustle.
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Re: Got in trouble for using "we'll have more privacy and intimacy in the VIP room"!
Fair enough. I appreciate what you're saying...I really do. I promise to mellow-out more about this in the future starting right now. Thanks for your input...it's sincerely appreciated.
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Re: Got in trouble for using "we'll have more privacy and intimacy in the VIP room"!
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Originally Posted by
DancerWealth
I think this is the point I was trying to make. I always believe that mis-leading customers, in any sales industry, is a horrible idea for countless reasons. A lot of sales though is using finesse in communication without ever crossing the line into being fraudulent. While I completely agree that the word "intimate" can be viewed in different contexts, I also think that this customer would have bitched if any other word was used too like "private", "quiet" etc... So, this being said, I actually think adopting the policy of making it very clear with a customer that no sex will take place should be made very explicit with the customer after the sale is closed so as to prevent this situation from happening again (see Bridgette, I agree with you! :) ). There is an old saying, Powerful communicators take responsibility for BOTH sides of the communication.
See, my problem with this entire thread is that you constantly preach (in HH and in your HSC) about seling VIP/Champagne rooms by using the words "intimate, more private, getting to be alone" You also make it a point to sell on emotion and NOT logic. In the post above, you said that you should make it very clear that no sex will be involved after the sale is closed. Isn't that bouncing the customer back into reality that this is just a sale, just a dance, and that you have no emotion to this at all??
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Re: Got in trouble for using "we'll have more privacy and intimacy in the VIP room"!
Shit, if I'd have known it'd be that easy, I'd have said something a long time ago. LOL!!
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Re: Got in trouble for using "we'll have more privacy and intimacy in the VIP room"!
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Originally Posted by
cinammonkisses
See, my problem with this entire thread is that you constantly preach (in HH and in your HSC) about seling VIP/Champagne rooms by using the words "intimate, more private, getting to be alone" You also make it a point to sell on emotion and NOT logic. In the post above, you said that you should make it very clear that no sex will be involved after the sale is closed. Isn't that bouncing the customer back into reality that this is just a sale, just a dance, and that you have no emotion to this at all??
Okay, let me clarify my thoughts on this. First, virtually all buying decisions are made first on emotion and then backed up by logic. Think about that for a minute. This applies all the way from buying that pack of gum in the supermarket near the checkout all the way up to a car or house. You aren't buying that house because it has good tiles on the roof, you're buying it because it has a comfortable living room, nice looking cabinets in the kitchen, etc. You aren't buying that car because it gets superb gas mileage, you're buying it because it's fun to drive. One of the reasons the Prius sells so good is not JUST because it gets good gas mileage, it's because it's really a great car to drive. Two friends of mine have them and they tell me all the time that even if the car wasn't a hybrid, they probably would still have bought the car.
So understanding this, there are times where the logic portion of the equation does need to come into play. Ultimately, there is going to be a dollar amount discussed and some other "rules of the game" as well. It's all about timing though. In other words, when a customer asks you, "So, what's the VIP Room all about", answering by saying, "It's $100 for three songs, $300 for a 1/2 hour or $500 for an hour. You have to buy a bottle of champagne for $200 and also, there's no sex allowed in there." is not the right approach. Rather you should sell it first, close it second, then discuss the rules after the fact while you are on the way. So what I would suggest is something like this:
- Customer inquires as to the VIP room info.
- Dancer sells based on emotional triggers and of course, never imply or suggest sex or inappropriate behavior in any way. Great things to say are, "It's more intimate in the VIP room...it's not so hustle-bustle like it is out here on the floor." or "In the VIP room, it's more quiet and private so there won't be all these guys sitting around us while I give you an absolutely awesome set of dances" and so on and so forth.
- Customer either shows closing signs and you close the deal or he offers resistance. You can play with that resistance and close the sale or opt for another sale or move on to the next customer. Assuming you close the sale though and money has not been discussed, this is the perfect opportunity. So if he says he's interested, use this for an upssell..."Awesome, would you prefer to go in just a few songs or would you rather spend a bit longer in there for a more extended period of time like a half hour?" Depending on what he gravitates to, explain the specifics at that time...the last part of your presentation. Once a price is agreed upon and the sale is finally closed, cover the last minute details such as the obvious no-sex policy or any other laws or club rules as they apply. There are ways to soften the blow a bit so it doesn't seem so harsh, mind you. Saying "just so we're clear, you're not going to screw me back there" is perhaps not the best approach on this if you get my drift. Make sense?
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Re: Got in trouble for using "we'll have more privacy and intimacy in the VIP room"!
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Originally Posted by
DancerWealth
You're wrong here. You just are. Selling lap dances IS the same thing as selling cars, or houses, or seminars, or real estate, or clothes.
Sorry. I just can't help responding to this one. This statement of yours shows just how much you don't know about our business. Men buy from us because they LIKE us, because there's something about our appearance and/or personality that appeals to them. NO amount of lines or techniques will EVER convince a guy who's not interested in us to buy from us. PERIOD. The ONLY reason ANY sales technique EVER works for us is because THE GUY WAS ALREADY INTERESTED AND LIKED THE GIRL IN THE FIRST PLACE. We can sit there all day long spewing every sales line in the book, and it's NOT going to change the mind of a guy who's not interested in us.
In regular sales, you CAN change someone's mind about a particular product by using good sales techniques. I've done it and I know you have too. Hell, it's how most salespeople make their living.
The fact that so many girls here have said the same thing: that nothing in your course dramatically improved their earnings is proof. And don't even try to say that it's because they didn't apply it right. Come on. If the information is that good they won't have to "apply it right" to see great improvements in their earnings.
There is simply NOTHING like experience to teach a girl how to make money in this business. Why do you think so many of us girls, when responding to someone's question, preface it with "you'll have to try things and see what works for you"??? Because, ultimately, a line is only a line if it doesn't fit that girl's stripping personality. She can come here for advice and get a variety of suggestions, and then take what works best for HER. In other sales, a person can use specific techniques and they don't have to "fit" the salesperson to work. In our business, it needs to "fit" the stripper (AND the guy has to be interested in her already) to really work.
And while I'm on a rant. A whole lot of what you teach (here anyway, since I haven't taken the course) is just not practical for the SC. If we use those LONG lines you often teach here, we'll lose the guy before we even get half of it out of our mouths. An SC is loud and distracting, with lots of eyecandy walking around constantly and a customer's attention span is short. We need to get the point across QUICKLY or we lose the guy's attention and hence, his money. Since you continually teach using very long responses, that tells me, once again, you don't really understand much about how this business works.
A guy may be interested in me right now, but if I can't get him sold pretty quickly, another girl who appeals to him may walk by and cause me to lose his attention. The biggest thing we need to know is how to spot a guy who's interested in us and then hold that guy's attention and get him sold before he gets too distracted. We don't do that with sales lines, we do that with our feminine wiles - something that's not learned in a sales course. And guess who can help a girl perfect THAT the best? An experienced stripper! Sometimes, a CUSTOMER can help with suggesting what works for him too. Or perhaps even a waitress or DJ or floorman or manager who's seen certain things work (although their perspective will be too limited to be greatly helpful, they can sometimes give some good hints). But not some dude who's never even worked in a strip club. Sorry.
Now, don't get me wrong. I don't begin to think I know everything there is to know about stripping and making money as a stripper. But there is no way in hell that any sales course is as valuable TO A STRIPPER as what I or any other experienced stripper knows. Just, NO WAY. And for the record, I am NOT the only girl here who thinks so.
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Re: Got in trouble for using "we'll have more privacy and intimacy in the VIP room"!
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Originally Posted by
Bridgette
Sorry. I just can't help responding to this one. This statement of yours shows just how much you don't know about our business. Men buy from us because they LIKE us, because there's something about our appearance and/or personality that appeals to them. NO amount of lines or techniques will EVER convince a guy who's not interested in us to buy from us. PERIOD. The ONLY reason ANY sales technique EVER works for us is because THE GUY WAS ALREADY INTERESTED AND LIKED THE GIRL IN THE FIRST PLACE. We can sit there all day long spewing every sales line in the book, and it's NOT going to change the mind of a guy who's not interested in us.
In regular sales, you CAN change someone's mind about a particular product by using good sales techniques. I've done it and I know you have too. Hell, it's how most salespeople make their living.
This is so true. Men come into the stripclub for women and for lapdances. I don't care what you say but Men like what they Like! I rarely have met a man who honestly doesn't have a preference. All men have a preference whether they think they do or not.
For example: If you're a guy who has a preference for beautiful, sensual, busty women with curves..that's what you're on the prowl for. Now lets say a petite, bubbly, 95lb chipper stripper sells you on why you should get a dance with her. After hearing all of her sales tactics you know what will happen, he'll still TURN HER ASS DOWN. That's because she is not what he wants. That little petite dancer will not/cannot turn him on the way that busty dancer that he just craves can!
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Re: Got in trouble for using "we'll have more privacy and intimacy in the VIP room"!
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Originally Posted by
DancerWealth
Once a price is agreed upon and the sale is finally closed, cover the last minute details such as the obvious no-sex policy or any other laws or club rules as they apply. There are ways to soften the blow a bit so it doesn't seem so harsh, mind you. Saying "just so we're clear, you're not going to screw me back there" is perhaps not the best approach on this if you get my drift. Make sense?
So then what is the best approach? See, now we're going back into the emotional aspect. How can you tell someone they can't have sex w/o having sex WITHOUT ruining the moment? You said to soften the blow, but with what words??
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Re: Got in trouble for using "we'll have more privacy and intimacy in the VIP room"!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bridgette
Sorry. I just can't help responding to this one. This statement of yours shows just how much you don't know about our business. Men buy from us because they LIKE us, because there's something about our appearance and/or personality that appeals to them. NO amount of lines or techniques will EVER convince a guy who's not interested in us to buy from us. PERIOD. The ONLY reason ANY sales technique EVER works for us is because THE GUY WAS ALREADY INTERESTED AND LIKED THE GIRL IN THE FIRST PLACE.
You know, I just wrote a very lengthy and drawn-out response to this and deleted it a minute later. It's just worth arguing with you and I'm fine with the fact that you have a different opinion. Let's just leave it at that. My experience is different than yours and I'm not willing to continue arguing about it.
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Re: Got in trouble for using "we'll have more privacy and intimacy in the VIP room"!
Not worth it? Because I might have a point perhaps?
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Re: Got in trouble for using "we'll have more privacy and intimacy in the VIP room"!
*gets popcorn and reads intently*
I can't wait to see how this pans out. }:D
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Re: Got in trouble for using "we'll have more privacy and intimacy in the VIP room"!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DancerWealth
You're wrong here. You just are. Selling lap dances IS the same thing as selling cars, or houses, or seminars, or real estate, or clothes. It's funny how every single expert on sales in the universe agrees on this but you don't. Such is life. I don't teach dancers anything about dancing. Clearly I have no way to have any experience or knowledge in this area nor do I ever pretend to be an expert in this area. This is why I have a partner who IS an expert in this area and it is she that gives this advice, not I. This being said, I do know sales...I'm an expert on it. I teach it in a variety of different forms and have for over ten years now. Sales is sales Bridget, whether it's done in a 3-piece suit or in a g-string. Sales is sales.
Oh, you did not go there. Dancing is not entirely sales. Customers choose us because they LIKE us. They don't TRUST us, and they shouldn't. They won't. Even if we don't rip them off (in their minds), the club will. You say to build TRUST, but I don't know of a single healthy friendship that is based on lapdances.
PS I was intimate with my bf a few days ago. By intimate I (obviously) mean sitting in a room, chatting, and holding flutes of bubbly. Every now and then I seductively removed my clothes and as he brought his hand toward me, I screamed NO TOUCHING.
Why is your partner an expert? Didn't she retire after, like, 3 years at 25?
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Re: Got in trouble for using "we'll have more privacy and intimacy in the VIP room"!
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Originally Posted by
StrayStripper
Why is your partner an expert? Didn't she retire after, like, 3 years at 25?
The woman you are referring to, Jamie, worked in the business for several years and routinely had record sales results in each and every club she worked in whether it was in Mississippi, Vegas, or any of the other clubs she worked. While she always did well working as a dancer, it was not until after she came through our course that her sales went through the roof. When we met, my then partner, Mandy, left the company to persue her deams working on the road for Cirque Du Soleil and being that I always wanted to have a woman's perspective with what we do, Jamie was the perfect person to help me with the program. Jamie has since moved-on with her life and now resides in California where she is working in the real-estate industry, quite successfully might I add. Being that she is not in Vegas, it made it very difficult to operate our business together. She and I are still friends and she is very happy with her life. The woman I am currently working with, Leonor, is one of the brightest people I have ever met when it comes to business and creative thinking in this industry. She is currently still dancing and has a pulse on this industry unlike any woman I have ever seen. She is brilliant personified.
Regarding the trust/like issue, it's not just one over the other. It's a very complicated weave between the two. While it is obvious that being liked is extraordinarily important to making sales, so is trust. Every amount of research in and out of this industry has proven that.
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Re: Got in trouble for using "we'll have more privacy and intimacy in the VIP room"!
LOL! Let's hear some specifics about this Jamie then. How many years, from when to when, which clubs and cities, etc, did she work? And how much did she make? If you worked that closely with her you ought to know these things. At least more specific than "several years", "record sales", "through the roof" or "each and every club". It's ok to post these specifics about her because no one knows who she is, so it's not gonna cause her any trouble.
You're using too many of what's called "glittering generalities" and not enough concrete details. That seems to be your favorite method - well, that and using emotional appeals (again, instead of specifics) to 'sell' us on your story.
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Re: Got in trouble for using "we'll have more privacy and intimacy in the VIP room"!
i suspect this is partly an ethnic thing, but i disagree that customers cannot be diverted from their preferred type of dancer to buy from a dancer that isn't their type. i sold to guys who preferred blondes, who preferred latinas, who preferred tall girls, who preferred giant boobs, etc. of course i am none of these things. and a lot of dancers who don't look like either a classic stripper trope (pam anderson style blonde) or something rare and/or sought after (redheads, 'acceptable' ethnic looks like japanese or india-indian, etc) have in my little experience had to make a living changing minds in order to leave the club with anything.
i know i would have starved if not for all the guys who said to me 'i don't get dances from girls like you' or 'you're the first (black/short/small boobs) girl i ever got dances from'. or all the club regulars who bought dances from their types 7-8 times of ten and from me the other times.
i think the changing minds works to a lesser extent in sexwork vs other sales, but i don't think one can claim it never works or works so rarely as to be useless.
on that note, i remember a dancer posting that DW's seminar was good for getting extra dances from guys who were already sold. like, it would help turn 2 dance guys into 5 dances guys, would help turn 30 min VIPs into hourlong ones, and so forth. which i thought was interesting at the time.
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Re: Got in trouble for using "we'll have more privacy and intimacy in the VIP room"!
^^^
I have too, but I don't think I do it through sales techniques. I think I do it by being unusually amusing (which is a technique in a way, but not one that anyone here espouses to teach).
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Re: Got in trouble for using "we'll have more privacy and intimacy in the VIP room"!
^^Well, I'm not saying no guy will ever buy a dance from a girl who doesn't fit his specific "type". Of course they do, sometimes. But she has to have *something* he likes and no amount of "sales" is gonna make him change on that. Guys don't buy dances from girls they don't like. They just don't.
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Re: Got in trouble for using "we'll have more privacy and intimacy in the VIP room"!
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Originally Posted by
miabella
i think the changing minds works to a lesser extent in sexwork vs other sales, but i don't think one can claim it never works or works so rarely as to be useless.
on that note, i remember a dancer posting that DW's seminar was good for getting extra dances from guys who were already sold. like, it would help turn 2 dance guys into 5 dances guys, would help turn 30 min VIPs into hourlong ones, and so forth. which i thought was interesting at the time.
Provided that you provided the expected contact, decent conversation, and he has the money, you can get another hour or dance by asking.
"Another?"
"Let's stay!"
"I'm not done with you." *wink, wink*
"Shall we go again?"
And other variations. But remember, this only works if you are the customer's idea of good entertainment. If you aren't, that's okay. Customers have preferences, just as you do.
Most strippers will tell you this for free. FREE! A $6000 value!
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Re: Got in trouble for using "we'll have more privacy and intimacy in the VIP room"!
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Originally Posted by
DancerWealth
Regarding the trust/like issue, it's not just one over the other. It's a very complicated weave between the two. While it is obvious that being liked is extraordinarily important to making sales, so is trust. Every amount of research in and out of this industry has proven that.
What research? Real Sex VIII? 20/20? 60 minutes? Oprah? Tyra?
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Re: Got in trouble for using "we'll have more privacy and intimacy in the VIP room"!
Okay. I am so closing this thread. I had a nice lengthy response typed out however I do not want to add fuel to the fire and Bridgette for some unknown reason has moved on from attacked Love Kitten Lingere to now DancerWealth.
*sigh* This is a text based forum and thus you can only perceive what is meant by a message posted here at all times. Due to the fact that you are missing tone of voice and body language which are both primary method of communication used by the human animal in order to communicate with words being secondary........... take a step back. Try not to read too much into anything posted by anyone here as it is a text based medium.
It's like me typing "You bloody little bastard" .......... unless you heard me tone of voice and saw my body language you wouldn't really know if I am meaning those words in jest or as an insult.... do you? so hence the reason this thread is now closed.
I AM MY OWN PERSON AND AN INDIVIDUAL BTW ! *sigh*